Two sites or one?

[Ashley Evans]

Hi everyone.

I have a window repair business and I am looking to expand into a nearby city.

In my current city, my online presence is very good. I rank naturally well and I have been top of the google business listings (maps) for years.

Now in the new city, I have an address and google business about to go live. My plan was to add an entirely new section to my website aimed at the new city. However, I'm a bit nervous of disrupting the ranking of my current city (especially my potion on maps)

Am I better off creating a completely new website for the new business in the new city?

Cheers in advance

 

[g]

If 'ranking' is your priority, then 'yes, probably'.

Be aware that ranking-methods (and hence your potential position) change.
And that a single site may become more appropriate.

It might help to consider the example of those multi-location (active in various towns/regions) businesses which operate a single site which informs of their locations rather than multiple sites.

A daft analogy/example might be 'do you throw your socks and pants in the same drawer, or are they separated?'.

Someone'll probably expand upon this (sites, not underwear) by getting into the issue of having multiple landing pages and/or sites for a single product/service... and thus open-up the tangent of 'are you orienting toward machine algorithm, or trying to reach humans?' (for which, of course, the former can help the latter).

 

[StephenSumner]

I'd stick to one site.

You are going to have to double your efforts with two sites, let's say your existing site has some form of backlink profile that is helping it to rank now, you are going to have to start from scratch on a second site.

Building out a network of sites for different cities and locations has rarely worked out well from what I have seen after many years in this game.

Focus all your efforts on one site and do it really well, the pay off is much higher for less overall effort.

 

[webhostuk]

Yes go with single domain , you can create subdomain page for each city you wish to target and add that one for every particular city. like othercity.yourdomain.com
This will better option, and help you in creating city specific SEO contains on that page.

 

[StephenSumner]

Yes go with single domain , you can create subdomain page for each city you wish to target and add that one for every particular city. like othercity.yourdomain.com
This will better option, and help you in creating city specific SEO contains on that page.

I'd avoid sub-domains where possible, it's almost as bad as single domains in terms of what I was speaking about above. There is no real reason why you can't build location pages out as sub-folders rather than sub-domains.

 

[g]

Yes go with single domain , you can create subdomain page for each city you wish to target and add that one for every particular city. like othercity.yourdomain.com
This will better option, and help you in creating city specific SEO contains on that page.

Constructively wishing to differ on the sub-domain-thing... the 'yourdomain.com/othercity/' format is more user-friendly.

I'd avoid sub-domains where possible... build location pages out as sub-folders rather than sub-domains.

EDIT: Damn, hadn't seen that when I posted - he must have been just seconds ahead... now (to my eternal chagrin) I'm just a redundant echo. Bummer. :-( But hey! ... it's lunchtime, so it ain't all bad. Woo-hoo!

 

[justinaldridge]

It's generally best to stick to the one site and add the new location to it. BUT...

My plan was to add an entirely new section to my website aimed at the new city.

If you have an address in the new location then you just need a "Contact" page for that location and to possibly re-optimise existing pages to include the new city name.

Why would you be adding an entirely new section? Is it a completely difference service? If it's the same service then there really is no need.

 

[webhostuk]

As per my knowledge and the number of sites I browse daily I have seen many big brands going for subdomain option over subfolder while they geotarget any location, there should be a strong reason to support subdomain in that case. you can personally search for such brand and see how they do it.

 

[StephenSumner]

As per my knowledge and the number of sites I browse daily I have seen many big brands going for subdomain option over subfolder while they geotarget any location, there should be a strong reason to support subdomain in that case. you can personally search for such brand and see how they do it.

The big brands you are spotting are doing it wrong, I'm speaking as someone who fixes this stuff for said "big brands".

The main reason they use sub-domains is either ignorance, bad SEO guidance or their server/technology stack is not that flexible.

 

[g]

The big brands you are spotting are doing it wrong...

As hopefully-useful (although probably unjustifiably self-indugent) but entirely-unrelated anecdotal example of an such activity...

• Argos used to be only available either with/without (it was long ago, and I can't remember) the www-bit. (I don't claim credit, but it was fixed shortly after I advised 'em.)

Seriously... in firms large-and-small (and with budgets also large-and-small), poor practice is more common than rare, so... while many simply follow/copy, others learn about what's appropriate. And (in an edited extract from Zeldman)...

• If smart, you do this discretely... happy to not be acknowledged. You do good in secret.
• And sometimes you don't... instead venturing into internet forums (for some of which you've correctly assessed the prevailing mindset as unlikely to be receptive to 'what's better' and will instead continue to adhere to 'what's usually done'...) and thus potentially open yourself to scorn and rebuke from those who're less talented and/or too lazy to bother. And you don't get too upset, because you want to help strangers in similar manner to how other strangers have helped you, and you know that doing good is always a more-decent option than doing nowt.

 

[Ashley Evans]

It's generally best to stick to the one site and add the new location to it. BUT...



If you have an address in the new location then you just need a "Contact" page for that location and to possibly re-optimise existing pages to include the new city name.

Why would you be adding an entirely new section? Is it a completely difference service? If it's the same service then there really is no need.

The service is exactly the same.

Let's take Plymouth and Exeter as an example. My current website is all about Plymouth window repairs. I've been doing it for years. I rank well and most importantly, I am number one on Google business listings.

Now I want to work in Exeter.

The obvious thing to do is add Exeter to my existing pages. Also add additional Exeter contact details in the site.

My site is now all about window repairs in Plymouth and Exeter. That's great.

I'm just concerned about 2 things...

1. Customers being put off that I cover a large area.
2. Losing my Google business listings position in Plymouth. Fee

 

[Paul Carmen]

You don't want to touch your existing pages, these are optimised well for your current location by the sound of it.

Create new pages for the services that you want to provide that target the new location. These should have unique content (don't duplicate your existing page copy) & info about what you do there & anything you've done in the area, or your businesses connection to the area.

You can only realistically target local search results, as unless you have a physical address there, you'll never rank in maps for that area.

If you have a physical location that serves customers in Exeter, set that up in GMB as an additional location (same GMB business listing) & add the new NAP details to the new pages, plus any NAP in about/location or footer address links.

 

[justinaldridge]

TThe obvious thing to do is add Exeter to my existing pages. Also add additional Exeter contact details in the site.

Yes!

I'm just concerned about 2 things...

1. Customers being put off that I cover a large area.
2. Losing my Google business listings position in Plymouth. Fee

Point 1 - Depends on how you position and market your services. Good reviews on the services pages themselves could really help.

Point 2 - If it's a legitimate business address then there is no risk.

Create new pages for the services that you want to provide that target the new location. These should have unique content (don't duplicate your existing page copy) & info about what you do there & anything you've done in the area, or your businesses connection to the area.

I have to disagree. This is a very old "doorway page" technique which is against Google's terms and there's no need to do this anyway, especially not for the same service. Google brought out a "Doorway page" update a couple of years ago to target specifically these techniques, especially as it was so abused for years.

 

[Paul Carmen]

@Ashley Evans, only if you create doorway pages, however I've never suggesting doing that!

I'm sure I don't need to tell you, but if you read Google's detailed explanation of a doorway page, it explains them as pages that deliberately exist to funnel visitors to another existing page or service (hence doorway) on your site. Ignoring the fact that most websites do this naturally anyway (usually funnelling all pages to a contact or sign up for a services type page), as long as its done properly, geographic services pages work well & you'll have no problem from Google's doorway algorithm.

I suggested this on the basis that the examples, Exeter & Plymouth are quite far apart (50-60 miles) & both pretty large, with lots of suburbs & their own geographical searches. Google is unlikely to consider them local to each other, as they would with two towns that border each other or are within a few miles.

I'm suggesting Ashley creates a proper page for the service that targets a location & makes sure the page is very relevant & useful for his customers in that town/city, with local details & testimonials etc. It needs unique quality copy, if in a competitive market potentially relevant backlinks & local directories/listings, it should not take customers off to the existing service page. He's then created a targeted useful page for his customers. If he duplicates an existing page & swaps out keywords & terms, then he's created a doorway type/duplicate page.

Your suggested approach would also work fine, especially if the two locations are close geographically, but needs more detailed analysis tools (which I suspect he doesn't have) & you could initially hurt your existing rankings, which he's trying to avoid.

It's also not really scalable for most businesses. It's OK for a couple of locations close together, however, if you then want to rank a business in several towns or cities, then you have one page that is trying to target loads of towns/cities. Now budget permitting, ideally you still go for ranking the service nationally, but in most markets you usually end up competing against large companies for the main service term & they all tend to have geographic pages targeting areas independently to the main service.

 

[Tim Marner]

From a branding point of view I'd stick to one site.

An interesting option which I don't think has been mentioned if you're set on buying a new domain and don't want to use sub-domains. Buy new domains **location**windowrepairs.co.uk or whatever it is, then add a forwarder to your current site which would have page specifically targeting that area

 

[fisicx]

Buy new domains **location**windowrepairs.co.uk or whatever it is, then add a forwarder to your current site which would have page specifically targeting that area

Why do this? Google can see right through this ploy so there is no benefit in creating and redirecting.

 

[Tim Marner]

I never said there was a benefit ? The first thing I pointed out I'd just stick to 1 site. But,(and it's a big but) if you're insistent on buying new domains, forward them to your existing site. I don't think it'd help with Google, its more a case of covering all bases so competitors can't use that domain. It's not going to do you any harm, just give you peace of mind.

 

[fisicx]

IIt's not going to do you any harm.

It can do. Google even warned against this in a blog post some years back.

 

[Tim Marner]

This is a grey area, am not going to pretend I know 100%. If you know please shed light because I'd be interested to know. However, I believe yes if you domain mask you do as you say get penalised although am not sure what the penalty is. But as I understand it with 301 redirect you should be alright as Google doesn't penalise 30X of any kind

 

[fisicx]

It wouldn’t be a 301. It would be set up on the server to point domain name A to site B

A bit like a .com pointing to the .co.uk or a www to the non-www

If you set up an EMD as you describe Google will think you are trying to get an SEO boost and may get a bit grumpy. Sites have had penalties applied for doing this sort of thing.

 

[justinaldridge]

I can't see any harm in following Tim's suggestion. There is no way you can get penalised for buying different domain names to protect your brand or service. It's only an issue when you redirect multiple domains with spam profiles all into one.

Buying multiple new domains and 301 redirecting them back to the main site is absolutely fine. Many businesses do this for marketing purposes and use the local domain for local advertising.

 

[fisicx]

If you think it’s fine then I withdraw my objection m’lud.

I just know of someone who did this for a bunch of EMDs and had his site penalised. He removed the redirects and his ranking returned.

 

[MaureenP]

Hi everyone.

I have a window repair business and I am looking to expand into a nearby city.

In my current city, my online presence is very good. I rank naturally well and I have been top of the google business listings (maps) for years.

Now in the new city, I have an address and google business about to go live. My plan was to add an entirely new section to my website aimed at the new city. However, I'm a bit nervous of disrupting the ranking of my current city (especially my potion on maps)

Am I better off creating a completely new website for the new business in the new city?

Cheers in advance

Yes, you can target your new city in the same website by making page but that page content must remain unique otherwise google will consider that page as duplicate content.

Inplace of maintaining different website for different city, designing page for new city in exisitng website will remain the best.

Here I am going to share some resource which will help you to work on these pages in the right way without hurting the rankings:

https://www.searchenginejournal.com/city-pages-local-seo/209084/
https://www.webhostingsecretreveale...-ranking-your-website-for-multiple-locations/

 

[SEOLiam]

You are best to setup a new page and optimise it for the new target area keywords inside your existing website but make sure you write clear, fresh and detailed copy so it's not just a doorway page as previously mentioned.

Think about structure (I'm a technical SEO so this is important to me)...

You might want to target other areas in the future so be smart with your planning, you can setup your website structure like this - Have a CITY category and then inside that city you can have an individual page so the links will look like this: /city/exeter

Using this you can then target other areas in the future by adding a page and sliding it into the city category.

If you want to have more than one website, you could hire an SEO company and pay them a monthly fee for leads they collect for you.

I know SEO companies will rank their own website related to your target keywords and setup a landing page to collect warm leads, nothing too complicated.

They will then pass on leads to you for a monthly fee or % per lead (I'm sure @justinaldridge can help you with this as his company looks top notch).

 

[JamesMason67]

Here is the thing tho. It is a very real thing that all things being equal, customers, in general, like to do business with what they perceive to be local companies. I see this in my geographically spread out companies/websites all the time.

Eg., I have a Fife stonemasons page on my Edinburgh stonemasons website. It ranks very well for main keyphrases but I very rarely get a call from it, and certainly no business from it.

I set up a Fife website, Fife phone number, mailing address etc and although not ranking nearly as well for say "Fife Stonemasons" it gets many more calls and subsequent business than the Edinburgh based one.

I think there is a lot of value in setting up separate sites and Google maps etc for say Window Repairs Leeds and another for Window Repair Bradford or whatever. More work. yeah, but I think you will be creating yourself a great asset in my opinion.

Furthermore should Google take the huff with Window Repairs Leeds, you still have Window Repairs Bradford putting food on the table. I have learnt first hand this is a good idea.

Best of luck with your business
James

 

[Ashley Evans]

Thanks for the responses everyone.

I tried adding the second city to my current website but it had a huge negative impact. Just after I added extra pages, for the first two weeks of February, I was only getting work from previous customers and not getting many new leads at all. I thought it was just a quiet spell but after a couple of weeks it was getting unusual. I reverted my website back to the original one city version and the leads turned back on like a tap. I could be wrong but I suspect that I wasn't ranking well on the google business listings.

The change I made to the website probably wasn't the correct way to go about it. I simply duplicated my site pages and replaced the old city with the new.

Because of this, I'm not going to touch my original website and just create an entirely new website/listing in the new city. It's just too risky for me to start messing with my original setup.

I agree with James. Once the new city website starts ranking and doing well, it will be a great asset for me and won't affect my current city.

 

[justinaldridge]

I simply duplicated my site pages and replaced the old city with the new.

Yep, that was definitely not the way to do it!

 

[JamesMason67]

I agree with James. Once the new city website starts ranking and doing well, it will be a great asset for me and won't affect my current city.

I doubt you will regret it. Works like a charm for me..

 

[Aiden Andrews-McDermott]

Sounds to me like it's more of a local seo matter the a general seo matter. I have tried having separate sites on separate TLDs and on Subdomains with varying success. I have then reverted back to a single site hosting everything and separating regionally different content to pages instead of domains or Subdomains providing the correct Schema is used coupled with getting listed properly on the various online directories the brand benefits much more in terms of rankings.

 

[RjMaan]

You should accommodate the address of new city into your site and do not go for the second site.

 

[The next Steve Jobs]

A second site would allow you to experiment and optimize without interfering with the original site.

Each city has it's own unique character...the needs slightly different too

The local company effect can be a factor, if you have the wisdom and strength to cater for a new city focused website then that will likely reflect in your ability to deliver the goods on that new ground.

If the umbrella is spread to thin then everyone is a loser downstream


Expect the yields from adjacent cities to be lower due to inevitable issues with logistics and information asymetry... the Pareto Principal is likley to apply


You are about to learn the difference between nailing it and scaling it

The law of the lid is flocking your way


Being mayor of a single city is very different from being mayor'like in two cities
A change of hats is required...the right mentality needs to be applied




THOUGHT EXPERIMENT

Windows have been around for many decades, and in some cities, centuries.

Q why is there not a global window repair service?

Q given the truly vast economies of scale that can be brought to bear on the problem ... what are the barriers to scaling globally, nationally and regionally ?



FINAL THOUGHTS

Q What % of Windows in your primary city are repaired by your company ?

If the answer is less than 90% then there is still significant room for local growth

Q Are you just trying to cherry pick an adjacent city? Or are are you trying to solve the cities window problem, thus making your company essential to the smooth running of that city.

 

[fisicx]

If the umbrella is spread to thin then everyone is a loser downstream

What? That doesn't make any sense at all.

 

[leadresults]

We would have a preference of a second site, in experience with local, a dedicated site for the area of focus converts much better than a site that covers XYZ areas. We also find them much easier to rank well!

 

[xoxoseo]

Sub-folders and sub-domains have own pluses and minuses. I would recommend reading articles on that issue, learn more about advantages and disadvantages of each solution, and then decide what will work for you.

 

[webgeek]

1 site, separate contact/about page(s) for each different location, using structured markup for each to indicate their physical location on each page - to me, that's one "right way" of doing it - not making doorways with hundreds of locations, just one for each of the two.

If you want to win the seo war locally, then 2 sites, the new one on it's own domain with the city location and keywords in the domain and within the text on the page.

Trying to win the local seo war with 1 site and multiple locations, against those who have 1 site in each location, is a brutal battle for many niche sectors.

All depends on how tough the competition is in your niche and how much time/money you want to put into your winning the war.

 

[Ali-v-8]

First paragraph on your page would have to be altered to include your new location - This will alter the flow of the content and make it "new(ish)". This isnt recommended. Consider the saying "If its not broken dont fix it".
If you are going to make changes
1) create a location tab in navigation
2) add both locations as places of business (if you have a brick and mortar location also add to G+)
3) Blog about the locations you work in.
4) If you have enough budget create a satellite site and link to it from the blog.

 

[UKSBD]

If Maps and local is your main aim, I wouldn't just have a different site I would have a different trading name for what is effectively a new business anyway.

Until Google stop favouring locations in business names, or start enforcing guidelines about using real business names in My Business listings your competitors who are already doing that, have too much of an advantage.

 

[threenine]

A different perspective and nothing at all to do with SEO. I would launch it as a separate entity anyway, even if it only in web presence at this stage.

You could use the same hosting server etc, but the websites could be different.

Why I would do this, is that at a later stage there will be differentiation between the business, which may provide franchising opportunities etc in the future.

The other side of the coin, is if it doesn't end up being a success it's easier to switch off anyway.

I did this several years ago, when I had an established business, and wanted to set up another one, providing similar services in albeit different target customers and location. I set them up as their own entities, but ran them both as one business. I was then fortunate enough then to close the less profitable one down, without too much hassle. I effectively just had to close the books and that was it.

 

[Khurram Aziz]

It can do. Google even warned against this in a blog post some years back.

Yet again, your perfunctory knowledge of SEO is years behind the times.

 

[StevePoster]

For targeting a new city for your window repair business website for me there's no need to create a new website, but simply creating a new site page will do for the new target city. Why? because of these following reasons:
- This will increase the time duration of the users to stay on the website
- Users will acknowledge your website for offering service to another city
- Search engines will have a probability of showing your site page that will corresponds with the users query.