TV Roulette games - rigged or not?

[sellickbhoy]

hi

does anyone know if the tv roulette is rigged or not?

it seems very fishy too me.

i've been working on a system which is just based on probability and i spent about 2 months trying the system out on their "play for fun" site - not real money being staked, and without fail, i would finish the night up every single night.

however, as soon as I started a proper financial account and played using real money, it proved to be a total failure. clearing out my pot for the night on each of the 3 nights i played - given i'd gone for 2 months without ever losing, to suddenly have 3 nights on the trot with catasrophic loses seems remakable.

I've tried the same system in a real casino and won - until i've tried it on the much faster automatic wheels. Where again, it's proven to be a loser.

something doesn't seem right here.

I've since gone back to my for fun account and guess what - i've won again.

this can't jsut be lady luck having a laugh at my expense - or can it?

:|

 

[Esk247]

i think they do the 'for fun' part of the websites to get you hooked, you win every time, then you take your 'luck' to the real game and lose big style! but keep on playing in the hope of recovering your 'form'.

 

[sellickbhoy]

ah, but there is the rub, the for fun games are using the same wheel and numbers as the for money game - so it must track real bets and simply land on a number that gives them a winning result

would be interested to see the numbers of how much they actually pay out

and i wonder if it's legal that they show "for fun" players bets/winnings alongisde real bets/winnings

 

[stugster]

ah, but there is the rub, the for fun games are using the same wheel and numbers as the for money game -

Are you sure?

 

[Beachcomber]

Not using the Martingale system are you?

I had a play with this after reading about it and also found it to work well on 'just for fun' sites and crash and burn on real sites.

I have read that some sites monitor for certain pattern betting and 'take action' to avoid losses - what that action is I don't know, but as the House always wins I don't think they would have to resort to underhand tactics or cheating.

 

I'd hazard a guess that all of these gambling games are rigged in some way.

Try online poker, and you'll never see hands like those in a real life game. It looks geared to me to make the initial rake as high as possible, which funnily enough is where the banker takes his cut.

Gambling of this sort is for the losers, not for the discerning gambler

I think the regulators, if there are any, are not up to the task of actually regulating these things, and it has always been that way.

Even the gambling machines you see in pubs/clubs are supposed to pay out 75% of what they take in, but from past experience in cleaning one out in the mornings when I looked after a mates bar, there is little chance 75% was ever paid out.

Gambling against a machine is madness.

 

[stugster]

Gambling of this sort is for the losers, not for the discerning gambler


Gambling against a machine is madness.

hear hear! Gimmie a hold'em poker tournament or heads-up any day!

 

[garyk]

It was einstein that said the only way to take money from a roulette table was to steal it. Might be worth listening to him, rumour has it he was a little bit clever....

 

[sellickbhoy]

Not using the Martingale system are you?

I had a play with this after reading about it and also found it to work well on 'just for fun' sites and crash and burn on real sites.

No, not exactly, not a fan of that one, but it is a variation on it.

I have read that some sites monitor for certain pattern betting and 'take action' to avoid losses - what that action is I don't know, but as the House always wins I don't think they would have to resort to underhand tactics or cheating.

So, there is the thing, if they monitor your pattern how do they stop you? do they "fix" the result? In which case, surely that is illegal and against the law and the spirit of the "game of chance"

It seems very strange and highly suspicious to me that I can play a system in a real casino for real money and win, yet, try it on an automatic machine or a supposed "live" game on the TV and the system ALWAYS loses - even when i've been playing the same system on the same tv game

I'd always avoid gambling on a machine or an online "computer" game - but as these TV games are supposed to be "real" it makes it a lot more comfortable to play from the house - but of course, if the "real" game is just an elaborate "machine" rigged to favour the house ALWAYS - then there is no point. And that seems to me to be on fairly dodgy legal ground

 

[garyk]

any martingale staking plan is going to lose you money in the long run, its not sustainable, well that and the fact you need massive kahoona's if on a long losing run you need big stakes to continue.

There is no such thing as a 'roulette' system, period! Unless of course you want to spend £10K on a mobile phone with a built in laser which measures ball speed, table speed and at best will tell you which quadrant the ball will land in and then you have to (very quickly) place bets on all numbers in that quadrant.

Give it up, go home!

 

[sellickbhoy]

any martingale staking plan is going to lose you money in the long run, its not sustainable, well that and the fact you need massive kahoona's if on a long losing run you need big stakes to continue.

Ultimately yeah, you are right, the laws of probability combined with the rules of the casinos will get you in the end. But there are ways - mostly involving patience that can minimise the risk. Also, i'm not a fan of the straight forward martindale system of simply doubling up on black or red - it soon becomes very expensive for a minimal return

There is no such thing as a 'roulette' system, period! Unless of course you want to spend £10K on a mobile phone with a built in laser which measures ball speed, table speed and at best will tell you which quadrant the ball will land in and then you have to (very quickly) place bets on all numbers in that quadrant.

I don't think that would really help you too much either. Though is it not the case that there weer a group of gamblers who simply recorded the outcomes of thousands of spins on tables in several casinos and noticed a very slight trend in some of them to fall in a certain area - and they simply kept betting on that until they'd made their money?

Give it up, go home!

I would disagree with you a bit. Over the last 4 years - I've managed to win about £4000 - a grand a year. And i've never been more than £50 down (and that was at the start of it. And i'm not an avid and/or compulsive gambler either, i started with a pot of £100 and it's now at £4k. I have lost £300 on TV roulette though - 3 nights on the trot, £100 each night (that's my limit for losses)

Seems strange that i can consistently make a nice small sum (usually paying for the holiday/weekend away) but it falls to bits on the tv "real" games - hence why i think they are rigged.

maybe, i have just been lucky so far and now the odds are swinging back against me.

 

[stockdam]

It amazes me why people want to gamble. Unless the roulette wheel is biased (faulty) then in the long term you won't win (unless you are extremely lucky).

What's the attraction?

 

[FreelanceSoftwareDeveloper]

I am wondering the same. Obviously if you play in a real casino each turn is random, but what about in an online casino.

It should be the same, the previous result should have no bearing on the next. Some systems i've seen are based on looking at previous results and suggest this is linked to the future probability.

If you play one colour and double up you can generally get 6-7 plays before reaching the table limit if you start with the minimum bet. Odds for not hitting this are around 1/90. So if you play 90 times, each time starting at lets say the minimum is 1 chip, once every 90 plays you will get a losing streak which will cost you 128 chips.

I have tried this and turned £25 into £400 then lost it all again in one afternoon. Thought it couldn't lose and when it did felt it won't happen again soon.

You can't beat a fixed odds game. If you put 90 numbers in a hat and picked one then put it back. In 90 attempts are you are extremely unlikely to pick each number once, some you will not pick, some you will pick twice. This is what can make it a quick win situation. Do this continuosly and eventually it should become even. Roulette tends towards a loss because of the double zeros.

 

[stockdam]

It would be almost impossible to regulate and audit an online roulette game.

To see if it's blatantly fixed then you could monitor it for months and then see if the odds of every number coming up were the same. However even then not all fair roulette wheels would show an even distribution (but they will through time).

To show that an online system was cheating then you'd also need to know all the bets and then show that the system wasn't random when large winnings were possible. In other words a system that cheated would pay out more low winnings than high winnings whereas for a random system there would be as much chance of a low bet winning as a high one.

To do this you'd need all of the data over a period of time and even then it may be hard to prove.

An online system could obviously be made to pay out the least amount on each spin but that would be too easy to detect.

But then again they don't need to mess around to make money.

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

It amazes me why people want to gamble. Unless the roulette wheel is biased (faulty) then in the long term you won't win (unless you are extremely lucky).

What's the attraction?

For me, it's entertainment.

There's a thrill of gambling and a buzz if you win. If anyone doesn't play for entertainment then they're playing for the wrong reason in my opinion. Some might profit over the years, many won't.

So, if I bet £100 and come out with a £20 profit or even a £20 loss, then I know I've had a good time and it's money well spent (or earned).

This is why I never play TV or online roulette. You can't beat the enjoyment of a live table in a proper Casino.

 

[garyk]

I would disagree with you a bit. Over the last 4 years - I've managed to win about £4000 - a grand a year. And i've never been more than £50 down (and that was at the start of it. And i'm not an avid and/or compulsive gambler either, i started with a pot of £100 and it's now at £4k. I have lost £300 on TV roulette though - 3 nights on the trot, £100 each night (that's my limit for losses)

I didnt mean gambling in general Scott just roulette. People think they can beat it, they cant. The group of gamblers you are referring to that did beat roulette were using the system I mentioned, lasers measuring ball and table speed to give a 'rough' indication followed by betting across multiple numbers. Of course they worked in a team and were also harvard maths wizzes as well!

Your best bet these days is to do trading on the exchanges like betfair coupled with some software that pulls data using the betfair API, like betangel.

Gary

 

[vvaannmmaann]

Slightly off topic.Have you seen the games on the National Lottery site? My sister plays them sometimes,they always seem to get you close to the big one,but never a winner.I do wonder about the tecy stuff behind those games.They could be fixed,could they not? I'm not suggesting that Camelot are rigging them obviously.

 

[directmarketingadvice]

any martingale staking plan is going to lose you money in the long run, its not sustainable, well that and the fact you need massive kahoona's if on a long losing run you need big stakes to continue.

Any staking plan is going to lose long term, simply because every bet you make on roulette is a bad one...

... except...

Unless of course you want to spend £10K on a mobile phone with a built in laser which measures ball speed, table speed and at best will tell you which quadrant the ball will land in and then you have to (very quickly) place bets on all numbers in that quadrant.

Derren Brown had a show where he tried to predict where a roulette ball would land. He lost... but he was only one slot out.

He may have been trying to do the physics in his head and use quadrants. I don't know.

But that's really the only way to beat roulette: by finding slots where the probability of the ball landing there is better than the odds.

There's a book about some scientists trying to do this with hidden computers. It's called "The Newtonian Casino".

(I can't remember if they made any money, but the system worked at the test phase)

Steve

 

[stockdam]

For me, it's entertainment.

There's a thrill of gambling and a buzz if you win.

Ok but you know you are going to loose overall. I guess loosing £100 but having a good night is ok for some people but I'd rather loose my money on other things.

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

Ok but you know you are going to loose overall. I guess loosing £100 but having a good night is ok for some people but I'd rather loose my money on other things.

I wouldn't enjoy the night if I lost £100, but I never let it get to that stage.

I don't feel like I'm losing money. I feel like I'm paying for entertainment. So, if I bet £100 and win back £80, then I've lost £20, but I've still had a great night. If I end up winning money and coming out with more than I had, then that's even better. You never know what's going to happen and that's part of the fun.

I certainly don't go to Casinos with the only goal of making a profit. That just sets you up for a lot of disappointment.

 

[garyk]

Any staking plan is going to lose long term, simply because every bet you make on roulette is a bad one...

... except...



Derren Brown had a show where he tried to predict where a roulette ball would land. He lost... but he was only one slot out.

He may have been trying to do the physics in his head and use quadrants. I don't know.

He did indeed Steve but (and I'm a big DB fan having seen him a couple of times) he destroyed his credibility with that farcical lottery show which then questions was he that close on the roulette? It was all very cloak and dagger.

There's a book about some scientists trying to do this with hidden computers. It's called "The Newtonian Casino".

(I can't remember if they made any money, but the system worked at the test phase)

Hmmm the fact that a book has been published to sell and make money makes me doubt it anyway. Like the hundreds of tipsters with high strike rates always ready to 'sell' their tips!

If anyone had a system that worked you wouldnt hear about it, less be able to buy a book on it.

 

[Esk247]

i think people were taking the Derren Brown Lottery show too literally.

it wasn't a magic trick, pulling a rabbit from a hat. He used math to show that the rule of probability applies to EVERYTHING.

there is a 50/50 chance you'll be born a boy or girl perhaps, so using that as an example with the lottery show he had a set number of people trying to predict the lottery numbers, averaging that out. and blah blah.

 

[directmarketingadvice]

Hmmm the fact that a book has been published to sell and make money makes me doubt it anyway.

The book wasn't "How to make $1,000 a day playing roulette".

It was the story of how a bunch of students/academics got interested in the physics of the game, build an in-shoe computer to predict where the ball would end upand then what happened when they tried to apply it in real life.

Interestingly, some of them got involved in investment (a hedge fund, if I remember correctly) and wrote a book about that, too.

Like the hundreds of tipsters with high strike rates always ready to 'sell' their tips!

I've known a couple of racing tipsters. Both were on the level.

(very different ways of working)

Steve

 

tipsters are a completely different thing entirely to a 'system'. there are 'systems' used in Race Betting too, but its nothing to do with tips usually, more related to the actual Maths. tipsters use knowledge, insider knowledge, and statistics, etc to make more informed selections, so there are good ones and bad ones, and some are definitely worthwhile (finding the right ones amongst the chaff is the difficult bit).

The only 'systems' that hold any water in Roulette, etc are the ones described above, and they fall down eventually for one reason or another, and the 'house' will always win with their tried and trusted methods eventually I think.

Again, gambling against a machine is mental.... don't do it. There are safer ways to gamble, and more fun to be had, than beating something a computer controls with the sole purpose of taking your money.