Tips on buying from Alibaba

[littlebitlost]

I have found a small range of products on Alibaba which I would like to buy and try to sell online. They have a range of products, ranging from MOQ of 1 to 1000's. I was thinking about buying a couple of the 1 MOQ products to see what the quality and product in general is like.

I'd try and sell those ones, and if they sell then great, i'll buy some more. If not, then I'll have lost a bit of money.....

The supplier I am looking at is a 3rd year gold supplier and have the 'On site check' thing. They've a proper website outside of Alibaba showing their product range, but you cannot buy through it. They have one company review which is good (although it's the only one). Were established in 2011.

So what do I need to be aware of? I'm about to send a message off to them to see if they reply.

Also is it as simple as buying on Alibaba and paying for the goods + shipping then it arrives at your house? Or do I need to pay import taxes or arrange to have it picked up from where ever in the UK it arrives at?

 

[plymgary]

How much will the total value of your goods be?

Are you able to give us an idea of what you're importing? Is it branded goods or something more generic?

The 3rd year gold supplier and verification sounds promising though. Does it tell you how many users have registered them as a contact (it's usually on the right hand side of the screen). That's also a good indicator.

Other than sending someone out there to take a look at the factory for you it's always a risk but looks like you're taking good steps to minimise them.

 

[littlebitlost]

How much will the total value of your goods be?

Are you able to give us an idea of what you're importing? Is it branded goods or something more generic?

The 3rd year gold supplier and verification sounds promising though. Does it tell you how many users have registered them as a contact (it's usually on the right hand side of the screen). That's also a good indicator.

Other than sending someone out there to take a look at the factory for you it's always a risk but looks like you're taking good steps to minimise them.

The company that is selling them are a Chinese brand and have two or three brand names, of which their products are branded with. So it's no big UK names that could be faked.

The total value of goods will (I hope) to be around the £100 mark, just one of each to get me going. Although this depends on what happens with my conversation with the supplier.

 

[plymgary]

For £100, I'd say it was worth the risk. I'm not sure when customs charges become applicable but for £100 I wouldn't say you would receive any. In truth, most Chinese suppliers are in the dangerous habit of under-declaring the value of their goods so they'll probably mark it as being worth £10!

When I'm importing items I just add 30% onto the US$ the Chinese suppliers charge for the total consignment, then convert that figure into GBP. I find that usually gives me a good estimate as to what customs charges might be due. Saying that, that works for my line of products, it might not necessarily work for you.

 

[littlebitlost]

For £100, I'd say it was worth the risk. I'm not sure when customs charges become applicable but for £100 I wouldn't say you would receive any. In truth, most Chinese suppliers are in the dangerous habit of under-declaring the value of their goods so they'll probably mark it as being worth £10!

When I'm importing items I just add 30% onto the US$ the Chinese suppliers charge for the total consignment, then convert that figure into GBP. I find that usually gives me a good estimate as to what customs charges might be due. Saying that, that works for my line of products, it might not necessarily work for you.

Thanks - Sorry for being naive, but how do I pay the customs charges? Do they stick an invoice to the package or something?

 

[plymgary]

Thanks - Sorry for being naive, but how do I pay the customs charges? Do they stick an invoice to the package or something?

It depends on who clears the parcel for you. Most of the time, you pay after you receive the goods as the courier will send you an invoice. If it's Royal Mail, you need to pay them before receipt. The invoices come in the post so there's nothing for you to do apart from pay it.

If you start importing big amounts, that's when it gets more complicated with shipping agents/EORI codes etc. But, cross that bridge when you come to it.

 

[littlebitlost]

It depends on who clears the parcel for you. Most of the time, you pay after you receive the goods as the courier will send you an invoice. If it's Royal Mail, you need to pay them before receipt. The invoices come in the post so there's nothing for you to do apart from pay it.

If you start importing big amounts, that's when it gets more complicated with shipping agents/EORI codes etc. But, cross that bridge when you come to it.

Ok thanks. I just found the 'FOB price' is from China to the UK, but I need to get it from the port to my house. Is this as simple as just going onto the Royal Mail website and buying that service?

 

[plymgary]

For an order of that size I wouldn't bother. FOB would cost more than the order.

Ask them for a door-to-door delivery cost.

 

[littlebitlost]

For an order of that size I wouldn't bother. FOB would cost more than the order.

Ask them for a door-to-door delivery cost.

Oh ok thanks, I'll do that!

 

[sskimins]

I have found a small range of products on Alibaba which I would like to buy and try to sell online. They have a range of products, ranging from MOQ of 1 to 1000's. I was thinking about buying a couple of the 1 MOQ products to see what the quality and product in general is like.

I'd try and sell those ones, and if they sell then great, i'll buy some more. If not, then I'll have lost a bit of money.....

The supplier I am looking at is a 3rd year gold supplier and have the 'On site check' thing. They've a proper website outside of Alibaba showing their product range, but you cannot buy through it. They have one company review which is good (although it's the only one). Were established in 2011.

So what do I need to be aware of? I'm about to send a message off to them to see if they reply.

Also is it as simple as buying on Alibaba and paying for the goods + shipping then it arrives at your house? Or do I need to pay import taxes or arrange to have it picked up from where ever in the UK it arrives at?

You really need to check them, and also you need to choose payment method carefully, please avoid to use Western Union if you make payment for small order, as Western Union charges 25% of total payment. I know Chinese supplier normally does not like you to choose paypal. I had such experience in the past.

 

[reacha]

Thanks - Sorry for being naive, but how do I pay the customs charges? Do they stick an invoice to the package or something?

What looks cheap can be mis-leading, your $100 after tax import duties, post and packaging +VAT+ other taxes, and import company paperwork costs, customs checks etc and this will almost double your $100 outlay, how would I know? Well I have done this more than a few times, and buying in huge amounts is the only way to get costs down. And…. It’s never the same cost twice, why, exchange rates mainly?

 

[littlebitlost]

You really need to check them, and also you need to choose payment method carefully, please avoid to use Western Union if you make payment for small order, as Western Union charges 25% of total payment. I know Chinese supplier normally does not like you to choose paypal. I had such experience in the past.

25%? Wow! The company lists paypal as an option to pay with, so hopefully they should accept it?

What looks cheap can be mis-leading, your $100 after tax import duties, post and packaging +VAT+ other taxes, and import company paperwork costs, customs checks etc and this will almost double your $100 outlay, how would I know? Well I have done this more than a few times, and buying in huge amounts is the only way to get costs down. And…. It’s never the same cost twice, why, exchange rates mainly?

I don't really know much about the costs yet. I've sent a message but I guess I'll need to wait for Monday for a reply. Should get a rough estimate then.

There are no suppliers in the UK of this exact product and china is really the only place you can buy it in bulk.

 

[sskimins]

What looks cheap can be mis-leading, your $100 after tax import duties, post and packaging +VAT+ other taxes, and import company paperwork costs, customs checks etc and this will almost double your $100 outlay, how would I know? Well I have done this more than a few times, and buying in huge amounts is the only way to get costs down. And…. It’s never the same cost twice, why, exchange rates mainly?

HMRC would send a bill to you to demand you pay for it.

 

[sskimins]

25%? Wow! The company lists paypal as an option to pay with, so hopefully they should accept it?


I don't really know much about the costs yet. I've sent a message but I guess I'll need to wait for Monday for a reply. Should get a rough estimate then.

There are no suppliers in the UK of this exact product and china is really the only place you can buy it in bulk.

Before you import goods from China, you may do the following things:

1. Find at least three shipping agencies to get quotation in order to compare prices, the weight from a shipping agnecy is gross weight (including packaging).

2. Find supplier, then ask the supplier the gross weight for the goods you like to purchase, so you can extimate the cost.

Try above way, you would make things a lot easy. I hope it helps.

 

[littlebitlost]

Ok so there is no problem with communication. I receive replies within 24hrs and they speak English well.

They can't supply any testimonials from UK customers as any feedback they receive is by email.

They recommended I take 5 of each product as it will bring the cost per unit down, and they sent me a proforma invoice for 35 units which was a little over $600. I don't really want 5 of each to be honest, as if they don't work very well I'll be stuck with 35 not very good products...

Anything else I should ask them to verify they are genuine? If they aren't, then at this point they have me fooled!!

 

[Directimport]

Ok so there is no problem with communication. I receive replies within 24hrs and they speak English well.

They can't supply any testimonials from UK customers as any feedback they receive is by email.

They recommended I take 5 of each product as it will bring the cost per unit down, and they sent me a proforma invoice for 35 units which was a little over $600. I don't really want 5 of each to be honest, as if they don't work very well I'll be stuck with 35 not very good products...

Anything else I should ask them to verify they are genuine? If they aren't, then at this point they have me fooled!!

As someone with a lifetime's experience I believe that I can help you.

First, I never recommend Alibaba and if interested I can explain why. Being a gold member is a worthless indication of the reliability or trustworthiness of any supplier.

Let me explain Alibaba's grading system.The onsite visit is the verification process done by Alibaba. The result of an onsite visit is that Alibaba certify that the business actually exists. Nothing more. Businesses that are visited are then classed as verified.

A verified business can then buy gold supplier status. The whole objective of buying that status is to give the impression that they are reliable and trustworthy, but the only difference between a Gold Supplier and one that is just a verified supplier is that the Gold Supplier has paid some money to buy that badge. The only thing you can be sure of is that the business actually exists!

Alibaba have admitted that many Gold Suppliers have scammed buyers. I know that admission was made several years ago, but the verification system and Gold Supplier system is unchanged.

You should also know that the great majority of suppliers listed as manufacturers are in fact traders or wholesalers. If they will supply an MOQ of 1, that almost guarantees that they are wholesalers. That means that you cannot possibly get the best price. The only way to get the lowest possible price is to buy direct from the actual manufacturer.

When you say: "I just found the 'FOB price' is from China to the UK", that is a contradiction in terms. FOB means delivered to your carrier and does not include freight. If they have quoted you door to door delivery that is a different matter. I generally advise my students to get a quote on a door to door basis, depending on the size and weight of the shipment. There are many variables there and I would need to know actual package dimensions and weight before I could advise you.

Regarding MOQs: Wholesalers are usually unwilling to reduce MOQs, but if you approach real manufacturers the right way, it is possible to negotiate smaller orders at factory prices.

Regarding Testimonials: Chinese suppliers will rarely provide testimonials or references, mainly because they are concerned that you might be a competitor of theirs disguising yourself as a buyer. Feedback is another story. There is an online industry selling good feedback, and even on local eBay etc., sellers can get feedback that way. You need to do your own due diligence.

There are B2B sites that only list a supplier as a manufacturer if they really are such, and they have proper verification procedures. Almost all the popular sites that get a mention on forums work along the same lines as Alibaba, so you need to be extremely careful when sourcing overseas.

 

[StartUpC]

Directimport is right, I have personally see a company selling "good feedback" to Alibaba businesses...
We tried to order two times, nothing happened - the Seller proved to be a ghost business. We were told that "just only market research" were done when our ASIA-PAC staff tried to find the factory personally.

 

[paulears]

One dodgy transaction out of many excellent ones.

They'll send it any way you like - just ask for what you want. Depending on the category and the declared price, then if it's delivered by the big couriers - Fedex, DHL, UPS, etc, then you get the goods - and then maybe in two weeks you get an invoice which could be just the VAT, or the VAT and the import duty, which for my goods is 5%. This is levied on the declared invoice value which as has been said is often less than you actually paid. They will also charge you for handling this for you - £10-15 is common. Royal Mail means a trip to the depot with cash or cheque, no card or on-line payment.

If they take Paypal - use it for the extra protection, but I usually do bank transfers for more expensive orders, but be aware that there is usually a set of charges for this too!

 

[littlebitlost]

X

Thanks, interesting post.

The supplier said I couldn't have less than 5 as 5 is the minimum they can manufacture at once. Looks like they manufacture to order, but also have some pre made stock (which I now have a list of).

They offer PayPal and the shipping was by DHL, door to door (about $60).

Directimport is right, I have personally see a company selling "good feedback" to Alibaba businesses...
We tried to order two times, nothing happened - the Seller proved to be a ghost business. We were told that "just only market research" were done when our ASIA-PAC staff tried to find the factory personally.

Did you send them any money?

------

It seems like a legit business. I get fast replies to my emails and they have stocklists and a website, with lots of products and high quality photos. I guess short of actually paying for the order, there isn't much else I can do to protect myself?

The original invoice was too much for me to risk personally. I am now awaiting a price for lower qtys of their 'in stock' products (They can do smaller quantities of this as they are already made).

Let me know if anything I say sound suspicious- would rather you tell me and save my money!!

My next worry is if I order them, will they sell?!?

 

[paulears]

The thing to remember is that many of these businesses are in fact, small units in a complex. I bring in theatrical LED lighting kit and microphones - specialist stuff, and it's quite common for these people to be essentially assemblers, not manufacturers. I've spotted lots of common components and modules, and they source them all from the complex. It's common for designs to share housings and outer shells, and then customise them into a 'new' product. Very often they only source the parts when they get the order, so I've had very odd emails - "Dear Mr Paul, please we are sorry gold grill will not work on this microphone we can supply in champagne colour - please say this is acceptable". A few emails later it's clear that by the time my order came in, the supplier of the grills for the microphones had changed to a new colour. Once you work this out, some of the process gets clearer. I've lost count of the identical packing much stock gets - everyone seems to use exactly the same colour tape!

I never spend more than I can afford to lose - but I have caught a few colds on product I thought would be popular, that just isn't - so they take a long time to clear.

In all my dealings, I've had a couple of dry joints, electronics wise - but I've had a few housings - plastic ones, broken in transit. However - each time this happened, replacements were quick to arrive at no charge. When you buy from these smaller businesses just be aware that you're almost buying hand assembled rather than mass produced kit - possibly assembled by very unskilled labour. Depends on what your items are, I guess.

 

[Directimport]

One dodgy transaction out of many excellent ones.

They'll send it any way you like - just ask for what you want. Depending on the category and the declared price, then if it's delivered by the big couriers - Fedex, DHL, UPS, etc, then you get the goods - and then maybe in two weeks you get an invoice which could be just the VAT, or the VAT and the import duty, which for my goods is 5%. This is levied on the declared invoice value which as has been said is often less than you actually paid. They will also charge you for handling this for you - £10-15 is common. Royal Mail means a trip to the depot with cash or cheque, no card or on-line payment.

If they take Paypal - use it for the extra protection, but I usually do bank transfers for more expensive orders, but be aware that there is usually a set of charges for this too!

Every transaction in which the supplier declares a false value is a dodgy transaction. HMRC take a dim view of this and sooner or later you will get caught.

As the importer you are the one responsible for the declaration and you are the one liable. The people at HMRC are not stupid and they see countless shipments come in so they usually have a good idea of true value.

If one day an official detects the false value, you may find yourself hit with a penalty, but even worse than that, your name and address (or EORI) will be flagged and from that time on every shipment addressed to you will be delayed for inspection, and if the false declarations continue, you will be prosecuted.

As for "One dodgy transaction..." Alibaba admitted that 2336 of their Gold Suppliers had scammed people. The headline for the news article several years ago that I alluded to in my earlier post was: "Alibaba and the 2336 Thieves." If anyone is interested I will post the link.

 

[littlebitlost]

x

Yeah, they use the same mechanism inside. I am looking to import the better quality automatic watches (not the manual wind up ones). They pretty much all have the same mechanism inside, just a different case.

I buy them from the looky looky people abroad when I go on holiday and I have opened a few of the battery ones up and it's just a little electronic circuit in all of them (apart from the automatics). Obviously those are branded as top brands (then ones I am importing are not, and I am being careful not to look at ones that have logos or designs similar to the big brands).

x

So what do you think I could do further to make sure I am not being scammed? It all seems legit so far, however I imagine scammers are good, otherwise they wouldn't be able to scam anyone haha.

 

[paulears]

I can only tell my own experiences - the transaction I lost money on, was in reality too good to be true, and of course, was! However, this was entirely my fault, and all my purchases since then have been fine and apart from the unexpected delays sometimes, I cannot complain.

It's also quite common to get details on the import documentation that includes the price from a company you haven't heard of, and not who you paid.

 

[Directimport]

Yeah, they use the same mechanism inside. I am looking to import the better quality automatic watches (not the manual wind up ones). They pretty much all have the same mechanism inside, just a different case.

I buy them from the looky looky people abroad when I go on holiday and I have opened a few of the battery ones up and it's just a little electronic circuit in all of them (apart from the automatics). Obviously those are branded as top brands (then ones I am importing are not, and I am being careful not to look at ones that have logos or designs similar to the big brands).


So what do you think I could do further to make sure I am not being scammed? It all seems legit so far, however I imagine scammers are good, otherwise they wouldn't be able to scam anyone haha.

The scammers are good at what they do, and it is not easy to pick them. If they have a website with a .cn suffix not .com, they are required to display an ICP number. ICP stands for Internet Content Provider. No ICP number means they are possibly not genuine.

Do they use free email addresses or do they have email addresses with their own domain name? If only free ones, they are unlikely to be manufacturers and could quite likely be scammers.

Do their telephone area codes match the postal code for their address? If not, run the other way. Note: you may need to PM me with the phone numbers and I can tell you from those what the relevant postal code should be.

There are other ways to check out a supplier and I explain them in my book, but there is far too much to post here.

Regarding your watches: There are many legitimate watch manufacturers in Mainland China, Hong Kong, and Taiwan, and a lot of them are quite small companies. You will find that if you ask, for a small extra charge you can buy watches with Japanese or even Swiss made movements. If the supplier can't do that for you, move on till you find someone who can.

 

[Kirsty Newman]

I have found a small range of products on Alibaba which I would like to buy and try to sell online. They have a range of products, ranging from MOQ of 1 to 1000's. I was thinking about buying a couple of the 1 MOQ products to see what the quality and product in general is like.

I'd try and sell those ones, and if they sell then great, i'll buy some more. If not, then I'll have lost a bit of money.....

The supplier I am looking at is a 3rd year gold supplier and have the 'On site check' thing. They've a proper website outside of Alibaba showing their product range, but you cannot buy through it. They have one company review which is good (although it's the only one). Were established in 2011.

So what do I need to be aware of? I'm about to send a message off to them to see if they reply.

Also is it as simple as buying on Alibaba and paying for the goods + shipping then it arrives at your house? Or do I need to pay import taxes or arrange to have it picked up from where ever in the UK it arrives at?

Hi littlebitlost,

It's always best to go with verified suppliers and those have been trading for longer than a year. However, remember that the likes of Alibaba also stress that this is no guarantee as companies pay for the subscriptions on the site. It's always best to ideally have people in China check them out for you as well as payment fraud checks or a third party to handle everything for you.

Most suppliers will ask for a DHL or UPS account too. Also remember to do all your checks properly on a supplier as a decent samples doesn't necessarily mean a decent actual order

Hope that helps

Kirsty
www . helptobuyfromchina. com

 

[Directimport]

Hi littlebitlost,

It's always best to go with verified suppliers and those have been trading for longer than a year. However, remember that the likes of Alibaba also stress that this is no guarantee as companies pay for the subscriptions on the site. It's always best to ideally have people in China check them out for you as well as payment fraud checks or a third party to handle everything for you.

Most suppliers will ask for a DHL or UPS account too. Also remember to do all your checks properly on a supplier as a decent samples doesn't necessarily mean a decent actual order

Hope that helps

Kirsty
www . helptobuyfromchina. com

It is not "best to go with verified suppliers". Relying on Alibaba's verification is pointless. All they do is check that the business actually exists. Relying on their Gold Supplier process is also useless. All they do is check that the business actually exists and has paid for a Gold Supplier badge to make gullible buyers think that they are somehow more reliable and trustworthy.

I have taught hundreds of people how to safely source products in China and other countries, buying direct from genuine manufacturers at amazing prices. There is no need to use intermediaries although I do recommend the use of renowned internationally recognised inspection services when appropriate.

I do not recommend the popular B2B sourcing sites that are so often suggested on this forum.

 

[Maple Sourcing]

10 Easy Steps to Filter Potential Scammers
http://www.maplesourcing.com/blog-full-article.aspx?bid=1

 

[waskas]

Buy just from suppliers who trading more than 2-3 years

 

[Directimport]

That says nothing about their reliability, trustworthiness, or service. It just says that they have been in business for 2 or three years.

 

[GraemeL]

That says nothing about their reliability, trustworthiness, or service. It just says that they have been in business for 2 or three years.

Is Jim C taking over the 'business'?

G

 

[Directimport]

Is Jim C taking over the 'business'?

G

I was becoming overwhelmed by the large number of book buyers needing support, and Jim's team provides that support on my behalf.

I have given his importing specialists considerable and lengthy training to ensure that they can give the support that my students need. I am the final point of reference should they find a question too unusual to confidently answer.

This system has now been in operation for 6 months, and so far none of my students have expressed any dissatisfaction. The testimonials continue to flow in.

 

[adam-gz]

Hi Littlebitlost

From our experience many businesses encounter real problems with suppliers from Alibaba. To give you a very quick piece of advice, if you are not worried ordering and losing your money, why don't you pay sourcing company a fee or percentage of the purchase price to make your order for you? With this method you greatly reduce the possibility of receiving products that aren't to spec and benefit from an agents experience.

Also, business owners have to remember that the days of China being extremely cheap, for just a small quantity but good quality are pretty much gone. Now the Chinese manufacturers really do look more at quality and know that if a customer wants quality it also has a cost. They are businesses too. Really I am wanting to point out that buying just on price and for little quantity won't get you awesome results.

Either way take the initial leap. With small quantities it's extremely difficult to recover your shipping and import costs. If you lose money take it as a business cost. Buy the items and gain your experience from the units you receive or engage an agency to help you make your purchases. Obviously if things work out you increase your order volumes and continue with business.

Adam
<removed>

 

[Kirsty Newman]

It is not "best to go with verified suppliers". Relying on Alibaba's verification is pointless. All they do is check that the business actually exists. Relying on their Gold Supplier process is also useless. All they do is check that the business actually exists and has paid for a Gold Supplier badge to make gullible buyers think that they are somehow more reliable and trustworthy.

I have taught hundreds of people how to safely source products in China and other countries, buying direct from genuine manufacturers at amazing prices. There is no need to use intermediaries although I do recommend the use of renowned internationally recognised inspection services when appropriate.

I do not recommend the popular B2B sourcing sites that are so often suggested on this forum.

Please read further on when commenting. You have repeated pretty much my point. My sentence after what you have quoted states however....

 

[Maple Sourcing]

If you already have a selling channel, instead of buying 5 pcs each model, I'd suggest you buy a little bit more, such as 20 pcs. Because not only you will get discounted prices at larger QTY, but also shipping cost per unit will significantly drop.

If later-on you find out some products cannot be sold that quickly, you can always drop the price to you cost, then usually you clear them out quickly, and never order those items any more.

This is how my client is doing now, quite successful.

 

[Directimport]

Please read further on when commenting. You have repeated pretty much my point. My sentence after what you have quoted states however....

The rest of your sentence after the word however reads: " remember that the likes of Alibaba also stress that this is no guarantee as companies pay for the subscriptions on the site."

The reality is that Alibaba provide legal disclaimers but they do not stress the absence of a guarantee or that companies pay for subscriptions. Please search their site very diligently if you want to find such a statement and cut and paste it in a post if you can find it.

My point was that there is no point in relying on Alibaba's verification process because all they do is verify that the business actually exists. As for the Gold Supplier badge the whole objective is to make gullible buyers think that they are somehow more reliable and trustworthy than ones without the gold badge.

Please don't think I am just knocking Alibaba. Almost every major B2B sourcing site has a similar system.

 

[StripedSparrow]

I've noticed a reluctance to highlight on this forum the other B2B sites that might be considered more reliable sources than Alibaba. Why is that?

 

[GraemeL]

I've noticed a reluctance to highlight on this forum the other B2B sites that might be considered more reliable sources than Alibaba. Why is that?

http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/threads/is-hktdc-a-good-alternative-to-alibaba.334177/

We are all writing books

 

[Directimport]

I've noticed a reluctance to highlight on this forum the other B2B sites that might be considered more reliable sources than Alibaba. Why is that?

There is a lot more to safe sourcing than knowing which sites are safer to use. Publishing those sites would be like throwing someone in the deep end of the pool as their introduction to learning how to swim.

 

[yunarel]

i don't recommended alibaba if you wanna buy many items or expansive items but if you want to buy only one item to 4 and of course cheap items then go try.

their shipping takes long time until you think that you'll never got your items
you'll find some items broken or lost

and there is other things that i don't like about alibaba and their brother aliexpress i have a bad experience with them myself too

 

[brandy11112]

the shipment method depands on your demand. you can ask for samples,just need to pay express fee.