This is not a covid thread!

[NickGrogan]

If you think masks enhance or aid the respiratory system, and don’t hugely affect your internal primary organs, coincidentally putting your lungs and heart on intense overtime, then you need to go and speak with a doctor and ask them.
Sorry, but this is really simple. COVID or not, blocking your respiratory system for any amount of time puts a huge amount of pressure on your body.

That's easily tested.

Get yourself a blood pressure monitor, they're really cheap on Amazon, or you can use one in many dr surgeries.

Take your blood pressure and heart rate a few times, when you're relaxing and not wearing a mask. Find the average reading.

Now put a mask on, wear it for an hour or so. This should put pressure on your heart and lungs.

Assuming you're still alive, take your blood pressure and heart rate a few times when you're relaxing and not wearing a mask. Find the average reading.

What happened to the reading?

Now put on two masks and wait an hour or so. If you faint during this stage (you won't), get someone to take off the masks.

Assuming you're still alive, take your blood pressure and heart rate a few times when you're relaxing and not wearing a mask. Find the average reading.

What happened to the reading?

Now put on three masks and wait an hour or so. This is clearly fatal, so make sure that your last will and testament is up to date and that the dogs have been fed.

Assuming you're still alive, take your blood pressure and heart rate a few times when you're relaxing and not wearing a mask. Find the average reading.

What happened to the reading?

How much did your heart rate and blood pressure change?

For the vast majority of people, not significantly.

If you have a heart or lung condition or just had major surgery don't do this.

If you're racing Usain Bolt, don't do it.

If you're wandering around a supermarket you'll be fine.

 

[NickGrogan]

next to no deaths once prior conditions and 30 day windows are accounted into it.

Looking at all deaths, how many people over 60 die with no prior conditions?

 

[IanSuth]

You just said it already is a crime in France. Make your mind up.

Also can you imagine the uproar in this country if you made getting in a dingy and leaving shore without a permit a crime, whilst it might be obvious someone is likely to be heading towards the international border it is not provable to the extent needed for a criminal case.

@NickGrogan How would you word a law (in English i don't expect you to try French) that would be enforceable but not also cover a holiday maker just using a boat for leisure

 

[IanSuth]

Jumping in a Dingy no permit needed.

Sailing your Dingy to France or UK, crossing international borders. Permit needed.

As I said earlier neither the French or UK government has any real interest in stopping the immigrants, it is all just political posturing.

But as NewChodge pointed out, until you cross the border you haven't breached pt2 and when you have done that you are in the other country and subject to different laws so permit irrelevant - you are trying to base a law on intent which is very hard to prove beyond all reasonable doubt.

I totally agree neither sides wants to stop it but I am saying "why should France" and even if they wanted to "How could they" ?

The obvious, easiest solution would be a UK consulate facility in Calais where refugees could present themselves and register to be assessed as if arriving in the UK with a strict SLA on decision turnaround. The French have pretty much agreed to that but we havent, if we did it we would then have more of an ability to stop seaborn journeys as a safe regulated option for refugees exists so we could more safely assume those trying to sneak in weren't legitimate - but currently there is no other way to enter the UK to seek asylum (an accepted human right)

 

[NickGrogan]

Also can you imagine the uproar in this country if you made getting in a dingy and leaving shore without a permit a crime, whilst it might be obvious someone is likely to be heading towards the international border it is not provable to the extent needed for a criminal case.

@NickGrogan How would you word a law (in English i don't expect you to try French) that would be enforceable but not also cover a holiday maker just using a boat for leisure

The law already exists, and it's in French

Sailing Licences and Boat Permits - France - Angloinfo

Permits are not required for sailing boats, or boats with a motor less powerful than 4.5 Kilowatts (6CV) sailing sea or inland waters. Note: "Jet-Ski...

www.angloinfo.com

The rules limit sailing beyond 9km of the coast, which is pretty far for your average holidaymaker but within French waters, so no crossing international borders necessary.

Add a rule for lower powered boats to prevent people from getting around it with smaller engines. Say 6km - still far enough for leisure.

I can't see any objection to that as it's a variation on existing well-established law.

Add in or improve the law on overloading boats - I presume there is one already.

Sorted.

Next job, either start processing people in France as you've mentioned or arrange to ship them across and process them on mass on arrival. Book a full ferry load once a week, and process during the crossing.

Anyone crossing in any other way is automatically declined.

 

[IanSuth]

The law already exists, and it's in French

Sailing Licences and Boat Permits - France - Angloinfo

Permits are not required for sailing boats, or boats with a motor less powerful than 4.5 Kilowatts (6CV) sailing sea or inland waters. Note: "Jet-Ski...

www.angloinfo.com

The rules limit sailing beyond 9km of the coast, which is pretty far for your average holidaymaker but within French waters, so no crossing international borders necessary.

Add a rule for lower powered boats to prevent people from getting around it with smaller engines. Say 6km - still far enough for leisure.

I can't see any objection to that as it's a variation on existing well-established law.

Add in or improve the law on overloading boats - I presume there is one already.

Sorted.

Next job, either start processing people in France as you've mentioned or arrange to ship them across and process them on mass on arrival. Book a full ferry load once a week, and process during the crossing.

Anyone crossing in any other way is automatically declined.

Ignoring the fact i doubt any of those dingy's are using outboards over 4.5kw

It is the 2nd bit we are refusing to do - Priti keeps talking about parallel tracks but currently as we know >60% of those arriving by dingy make successful applications for asylum (despite the random stats she quotes which are provably false) in the absence of an equivalent of the Dublin convention we can't send anyone back who gets on to UK soil and fails the tests and we are taking an inordinate amount of time to process the claims.

Read this and look at the flow chart https://righttoremain.org.uk/toolkit/asylumdecision/

 

[NickGrogan]

I presume that we can try and send them back to the country that they claim to be from?

Given that they have little or no paperwork, then knowing where they're actually from might be a problem.

How about charging people to enter (they're currently paying the people smugglers anyway) and anyone who can pay gets asylum?

Those that can't pay are not going to make it across at the moment, so they're not really affected. They also have all of mainland Europe to apply in.

 

[NickGrogan]

Ignoring the fact i doubt any of those dingy's are using outboards over 4.5kw

already covered this.

fyi 4.5kw is 6 horsepower.

Looks like this

Boats for sale | Boatshop24 UK

Find new or used boats for sale in your area & across the world on Boatshop24 UK. Offering the best selection of boats to choose from.

www.boatshop24.co.uk

capacity 4 people. From what I've seen the boats they're using are significantly bigger and will need a bigger engine to beat the currents.

"Add a rule for lower powered boats to prevent people from getting around it with smaller engines. Say 6km - still far enough for leisure"