themetlab.co.uk

[The Met Lab]

Dear Forum.

Lets all start to fly the flag.

We use U.K suppliers , using U.K workforce , manufacturing U.K products that are sold to U.K companies and individuals...and abroad.

The U.S have always flown thier flag , our economy was built on foundations of internal business , lets get it back again .

Items that are made in E.U / Far East - CAN be made here too (and if given the chance) for roughly the same money , and lets not forget the QUALITY issues either !

EXPORT not IMPORT (ENI) .. i exit stage left to rousing applause ..

 

[lazytycoon]

But do we want to make shoes for £0.17? Sure we can match that price but the jobs won't be filled and the profit margins will be too small and not worth the hassle. Lets concentrate on expensive high quality products instead shall we?

 

[The Met Lab]

..many people have stated the same thing ,, answer being :

making products in ANY spectrum at the quantities we ship in , would be made at a fair and not - get rich quick - price , thus leading to more internal employment , thus leading to more internal money distribution thus leading to products made at U.K prices that people CAN afford (albeit more expensive than imports) because we will be earning more.

It's an upward spiral not a downward.

We can then invest EVEN more into expensive high quality items , for export too.

Export not import ,ENI...The Met Lab

 

[MrBaker]

hope it works and good luck to you,

BUT you need to change the mindset of an awful lot of folk.

For years companies have been breeding a "cheap as chips" mentality and that mindset has been instilled in the public.

Yes they will pay a premium for a few things they believe are beneficial but on the whole everything else has to come in for pennies...

I agree stick to manufacturing quality and innovation!

 

[Cornish Steve]

Let me relate a story.

A few decades ago, here in Georgia, there were several hundred small companies manufacturing clothing. With the emergence of manufacturing in Asia and the removal of tariffs and import taxes, these local companies had to face up to the fact that manufacturing could be done overseas at a fraction of their costs. Today, you can count the number of clothing manufacturers in the state on the fingers of one hand.

A few years ago, I worked as part of a turn-around management team to try to keep one of the surviving local companies afloat. They were a family-owned business that had existed for over 100 years, and the owner was the great-grandson of the founder. What the company executives learned, however, is that overheads imposed by government were higher than the entire manufacturing process of suppliers from overseas. There's the minimum wage, minimum holiday entitlements, sick pay, maternity leave, redundancy pay. Then there's various industry regulations and the high taxes levied by the government on small businesses.

In the UK, the situation is even worse. The minimum wage is much higher (which means you're forced to pay considerably more than a person is worth), the holiday entitlement is far greater, and so on. Frankly, there's absolutely no way a British company can compete in commodity businesses like this.

What this means is that we must focus on high-value goods and services, benefiting from our strong education system and creative spirit. What concerns me right now is that the commitment to education in India and China (and elsewhere in Asia) is stronger than ours. For example, they graduate more honours students than we graduate students - which spells trouble for our economy in the future.

 

[The Met Lab]

...fair and valid points dear friends.

The West and espceially the U.K being in Europe AND being an island , we have to take the initiave (because quite frankly the Gov't is'nt).

The mindset is .. ie: 5 little toy cars in a packet for 99p shipped from China/Korea , place an order for the same quantity of 500,000 units per month within the U.K and the same box of cars would cost 1.87(slowly decreasing) , the extra workers , earning money , creating wealth would be able to afford better quality and eventually dispel the mindset ; buy it/breaks/discard/buy another...which leads onto waste and other global issues.

Export not Import ENI ... The Met Lab

 

[lazytycoon]

May I ask where the 99p and £1.87 figures are from. I am guessing it is a lot more than 50% cheaper to produce in Asia.

I don't understand how your idea works. Sure more people will have money here, well that's presuming people will want the jobs, but because we are making everything here everything will be more expensive. It's all relative and I can't see the benefit in that. Another outcome would be building on even more green field sites for massive factories and power stations, more airports and wider roads. Do we really want to ruin our country in a race to the lowest price? I admire your ideals however I can't see how it would work or the changing of basic human instinct.

 

[The Met Lab]

The Met Lab have quoted on inumerous items and quantities bought from the Far East one of them being the toy cars I mentioned , thats how the price came about.

People are always looking for jobs , moreso than now , alongside better working conditions and easing the burden on the benefit system , as in any good economy , the creation of internal wealth would utterly offset slightly more expensive items .

The large swathes of existing derelict factories and boarded houses and empty car parks and dormant housing estates is room a-plenty for commerce and industry.

It's not a race for low prices , its a race to become independant / solvent / successful and put the Great back into GB.

I would have thought the first and most important basic human instinct is to strive for better for your children and family.

The Met Lab.

 

[RobAtPressDispensary]

In the UK, the situation is even worse. The minimum wage is much higher (which means you're forced to pay considerably more than a person is worth), the holiday entitlement is far greater, and so on. Frankly, there's absolutely no way a British company can compete in commodity businesses like this.

I agree with the general tenor about our difficulty competing, though I'd blame our high taxation, high NI, legislated overheads, red tape, business rates etc. rather than the minimum wage. After tax and NI, a minimum wage employee takes home well under £4/hour - less than £32/day. Without starting to compare this with breadline economies where workers earn a dollar a day or somesuch, is that really far more than a person is worth?

Rob

 

[Cornish Steve]

After tax and NI, a minimum wage employee takes home well under £4/hour - less than £32/day. Without starting to compare this with breadline economies where workers earn a dollar a day or somesuch, is that really far more than a person is worth?

There's one easy way to find out: Abolish the NMW and see what employers are willing to pay. If an employee finds himself unemployed, it's clear he doesn't have the knowledge, experience, and skills needed to command a good wage. For this reason, I'm all for the government offering a wide array of training courses - so such a person becomes employable.

 

[The Met Lab]

1)Taxes 2) N.I 3) Rates 4) Overheads , and other non-growth monies would be slashed , the Gov't would be "handing out" far less and contributions would be far more , as I stated earlier , BUSINESS needs to take the initiative thus allowing the Gov't to see all the upsides , equally , allowing them to reduce 1,2,3,4.

Once this stage is reached and more business wealth is created , and a successful , running and healthy economy is formed , more foreign investors (as opposed to foreign spongers) would emerge.

Upward spiral scenario.

The Met Lab.

 

[RobAtPressDispensary]

I'd agree about the training, defilutely. But personally I don't think the NMW is particularly an issue with most employers. Unless you employ someone for something ridiculously small like £2/hr (in a country where that wouldn't even pay the rent on a bedsit!) we still can't compete at the low cost end of overseas manufacturing. When the NMW was introduced, it didn't particularly cause much redundancy or anything.

However, I heartily endorse you when you say

we must focus on high-value goods and services, benefiting from our strong education system and creative spirit. What concerns me right now is that the commitment to education in India and China (and elsewhere in Asia) is stronger than ours. For example, they graduate more honours students than we graduate students - which spells trouble for our economy in the future.

but I don't think the answer is simply to increase the number of graduates in the way this government is trying to do. All we end up with is very high drop-out rates at university from those who weren't really equipped for higher education, and graduates who can't spel, punctuate's a sentence or calculate their change in a pub, innit. (Bah humbug, never had it so good, blah blah ...)

Rob

 

[ChrisTr]

Sorry but your delusional. The labour costs in the UK are simply too high to compete with the Far East. As far as I'm concerned that's not even a problem - our economy has simply moved beyond manufactoring on a mass scale.

We need to focus on high quality products. "Buy British" brands simply are unaffordable for most people and the reason why we enjoy such a high quality lifestyle in the Western world is because successful companies create products at minimum cost.

By the way I reject suggestions that UK products are better quality. Simply lower cost products are made over seas and by virtue will be lower quality. Simply because something is made in Britain doesn't make it better quality.

 

[Wavecrest Ltd]

Hi Met Lab - I support your good intentions. Would be good if people could be encouraged to buy more products in the UK. Also think more should be done by UK Government to support small companies that wish to export. They keep tinkering with the way trade missions are run and financed and which markets they are targeting.

By the way, if anyone does not any advice about exporting or getting their goods shipped overseas, please feel free to send me a PM.

Best regards,
Glen

 

[The Met Lab]

..well done Glen !

Most people seem to want to discredit , or dispel these idea's and ideals.

Why should ie: a toy car be made in China for 40p / shipping 8p / handlers - middle men 15p / landed tax(es) 7p / logistics 3p / fat-cat company 1.88 / shop 240% and end up being sold for X.

The buying co and the retail outlet are creaming the money , if made here , profit distribution would be spread out , no up-front payments for goods that take 6 weeks/6 months delivery , hands-on quality control , rectify mistakes at source , no translation or language/communication difficulties , logistics to a miniumum / greener-safer and quicker lead times and most importantly MADE IN BRITAIN , with a U.K workforce with rights/good working conditions and money on the families table.

"daddy what did you do toady" ... "i sat in my plush office and made 8.3 million on imported goods " ... OR ... " i made 6.7 million sat in my plush office on home made goods" ..... YOU DECIDE...cos I know damn well which answer I would choose.

 

[Cornish Steve]

"daddy what did you do toady" ... "i sat in my plush office and made 8.3 million on imported goods " ... OR ... " i made 6.7 million sat in my plush office on home made goods" ..... YOU DECIDE...cos I know damn well which answer I would choose.

Fast forward six months.

"Daddy, what did you do today?"
"I hired more marketing people. We're doing well because we've kept costs low."
OR
"I met some of my former colleagues down the unemployment office. Due to all our overheads, we couldn't compete and the company had to shut down last month."

 

[The Met Lab]

..could'nt compete against what?..a mindset / a temporary drop of high profits / the public given the choice of where thier purchasing power really should be / zero unemployment (best case scenario) import/export balance (worst case scenario)

..fast forward 6 months.

1,500,000 kiddies "daddy/mummy/auntie/gran/brother/sister - what did you do today" .. "i got a nicely paid job down at Yorkshires/Newquays/Glasgows/Londons/Cardiffs newly opened toy/ car/boat/plane/shoe/vase/hair accessory/lace/print/sawblade/biro/handbag/plug/lava lamp (yadda yadda) factory , with decent holiday and pension package , all built on existing closed/redundant/waste land"

Why do people not support this notion , scared? unsure? .. we HAVE been world leaders in most types of business/manufacture/ideas/design and innovation , lets bring the glory days back !

T.M.L

 

[Cornish Steve]

I don't mean to sound unfair, but have you ever competed in a market where 99% of goods are manufactured overseas? You can't just change the game through bravado and nationalistic pride. You must make calculated business decisions. If you don't, you soon go bust.

At this point, if we care about our future, we should be investing in better education and making life easier for small, innovative businesses to thrive. If we continue down the path you are suggesting, we'll be forced to put up trade barriers and slap on import tariffs, which means exports would soon dry up.

 

[The Met Lab]

..we all know the adage .. supply and demand .. ( no trade barriers by any means , an import duty rise would be a perfect start , in-which the Gov't could put onto specific areas , thus demand increases , thus supply evolves )

The mere mention of ANY type of shortage or temporary halting of goods/services etc , the whole country goes on the march for it.

Our start point is 99% (as you say) .. thats grand .. so end 2009 let it be 97% and next year .. well you know.

Slowly slowly catchy simian.

 

[Cornish Steve]

OK - now I understand: You believe in protectionism and not free markets.

Sorry, but these are failed policies from the past. They lead to trade wars, quotas, and eventually poor quality, more expensive goods, and far fewer exports. That's not the world we live in - thank goodness.

British companies own more US companies than any other nation. We also own large and successful operations in plenty of other countries. What do you think would happen if we start a trade war?

 

[The Met Lab]

.. as stated prior ( " no trade barriers " )

.. free markets with the emphasis and drive being on - Made in GB .

Has little to do with overseas co ownership , it's about using existing workforce , with existing premises , creating many and varied enterprises and tiny thru medium to large hubs of employment and wealth creation.

Antiquated policies of yesteryear were bad , granted , the slick and helpful ones that need to be put in place now would be our countries turning point.

Not a trade war , but a trade core.

T.M.L

 

[The Met Lab]

.. if we start to produce goods and not just become a service industry country , it will also boost the latter , giving our next few generations much more opportunities for employment and above all - hope.

The finance generated could fund sports and training facilities which are very very poor and in certain sports non-existant in the U.K.

Sadly it seems whoever is in power is too busy fire-fighting , to tackle issues that take years to bear fruit.

Ho-hum , it'll all come out in the wash , mus'nt grumble , never mind , carry on regardless - the English way.

TML

 

[Cornish Steve]

Let's get back to your main premise. Your suggestion is that the government impose a higher import duty on products made overseas in order to help local companies become competitive. First of all, this would violate various international trade agreements to which we are party. Second, other countries would respond in kind, slapping duties on products we export. This would be the start of a new trade war and protectionist measures around the world, something we've spend decades trying to overcome.

What I fail to understand in all of this is the amount of grumbling that goes on about how we don't help countries in need. Shouldn't we be increasing the overseas aid budget to help needy countries escape from poverty? Guess what! Outsourcing work to the developing world has done more to help in this area that any other international aid initiative in history. Workers in Bangladesh, for example, will willingly walk several miles every day and work for 12 hours for the chance to earn a few pounds per day. This allows them to send their children to school and ensure the next generation is one step up the economic ladder. Imposing import duties and tariffs and quotas not only undermines free trade but it really hurts individuals working in developing countries. This is just another reason why I'm passionate about free trade and the wisdom of outsourcing work overseas.

 

[Mister B]

Hate to say it, but you're seriously off the mark here. Good intentions of which I applaud, but totally unrealistic.

There are a hundred and one reasons as to why your ideas won't work, I will elaborate on just one small point...

I import from Asia. Have done for the past ten years. However, being patriotic, three years ago, I decided to have a collection made within the UK.

So, factory was sourced, promises were made, prices were agreed. The items were of a low value, so I agreed to pay a price which was around four times that which I would pay through an Asian partner. Still, I thought, I'm supporting the British economy, can market that effectively, and accordingly, what with low lead times, smaller MOQ's, better quality and service, I could make up the financial difference through additional sales.

The result?

Order was delivered ten weeks late which meant that it would have been quicker to order from Asia.
The factory refused to take my calls and accordingly refused to give me an updated delivery schedule.
Goods were of a significantly lower quality than those produced by the Chinese.
Sales were proportionately lower as my competitors continually undercut me.

So, if you can solve these four issues then I'll listen a little more closely
And until you do so, I will continue to source offshore...at the end of the day I've got to look after my employees too.

Mister B

 

[The Met Lab]

Chaps ! ie : Steve.
What I suggested was a START of raising import duties a slow but effective means of getting the ball rolling , you're mate in Bangladesh will still be able to trapse a few miles to earn his keep ( I suspect at this juncture I have been mis-read ) I am not saying to ban/cease imports , I am trying to get the onus back ONTO Made in Britain.

This gradual sign will prompt , for example , Mister B's suppliers into - stop being lax and talking the talk* , and actually fulfilling orders correctly - on time and to an agreed quality -

Trust me Herr B , I pull my hair out daily dealing with U.K businesses , to try and give you a little ray of sunshine on your " four issues" ....

I sit down the relevant bosses/owners etc and go through what I have been posting recently about M.I.B , and state quite harshly "pull you're bloody finger out and lets make this happen" ... they go away (thus far about 60%) , ponder , and literally change thier whole working structure and actually walk the walk*.

Senor B , the suppliers you use (sadly) are of that U.K mind-set when it comes to work . I cannot blame you for going back to Far East supply.

IT WILL CHANGE > IT WILL GET BETTER > .. have faith , if that does'nt work , refer them to me ! .. c/o The Dungeon , Hades , just south of Utopia.

TML.

 

[The Met Lab]

well well well ... and there you have it ...

Long story short..

Quoted on 500 tables , order was ready to be signed off to China , our price was less , we cheekily gave lead as 1 week BEFORE shipment was due , gave us oodles of time to produce AND to better quality.

RULE BRITTANIA !