The Solution - How musicians can get their music heard

[mmga]

This thread is dedicated to discussing my solution to the problem of musicians struggling to get their music heard to mitigate the loss of talent.

I don't want a repeat of the previous thread. I will only reply to responses that are on topic, respectful, and thoughtful.

I don't think that me providing a complete outline of my solution in this OP will be workable. I think it will be too much to digest. So what I am going to do is provide a basic outline of the app functioning, and then we can build understanding together through your questions. The Socratic method, basically.

So don't jump in calling me stupid etc. and saying it won't work because of X, Y and Z. Just outline your objection, ask your question, and you'll probably find that I have the answer. I have thought about this a lot.

......

So, how can musicians get their music heard?

Imagine an app. The musician signs up and creates their profile.

The app then promotes their profile to the other musicians on the app until they have been followed 1000 times.

These are their 'help you on your way' followers.

You post a new song to your profile.

The app then promotes your song to your 1000 followers until it has been listened to twenty times.

If any of them like your song then they will share it with their own followers, and this is how you will build your real audience.

......

That is the concept in a nutshell. There are many obvious questions to ask. For example, why would other musicians listen to your music etc.? There are also many more subtle questions that will flesh out the finer details. We will get to them all.

There is much, much more to be said.

Such an app has obvious means to make money - subscription, adverts, premium features etc. But there is a path to a much bigger vision that would turn this app into the most valuable music app in the world.

I'll give a brief outline...

By guaranteeing that the musician's music is heard the app removes the need for the musician to put their time and effort into marketing. Instead, they can put that time and effort into creating better music.

This would lead to a new generation of better music, which would also make viable a return to charging for individual songs and albums instead of subscription to streaming platforms.

This would lead to much more income for musicians, with the app taking a cut from each sale. And here is where huge amounts of money can be made.

The End.

 

[mmga]

To assist you. Some thoughts from chatgpt...

Your concept for an app aimed at helping musicians get their music heard is intriguing. It leverages a community-based approach to promote new music and build audiences, which can be a powerful way to combat the oversaturation and discoverability issues in the music industry. Let's explore your idea further with a few questions to flesh out the details and potential challenges:

1. **Motivation for Initial Followers:**
- How do you plan to incentivize the initial 1000 followers to actively listen to and promote new music? What would motivate musicians to engage with and support their peers' music?

2. **Quality Control:**
- How will the app ensure the quality of the music being promoted? Is there a vetting process to prevent the system from being flooded with low-quality or spam content?

3. **Community Dynamics:**
- How do you plan to manage the community aspect to ensure positive engagement and avoid potential toxicity or abuse? What measures will be in place to foster a supportive environment?

4. **Monetization Strategy:**
- You mentioned potential revenue streams like subscriptions, ads, and premium features. Could you elaborate on how these would be integrated without compromising the user experience? How will these monetization methods impact both the musicians and the listeners?

5. **Scalability:**
- As the user base grows, how will the app handle the increased volume of music and interactions? What systems or algorithms will be in place to ensure that all musicians get fair exposure?

6. **Retention and Growth:**
- What strategies will you employ to retain musicians and listeners on the app? How will you attract new users and sustain growth over time?

7. **Competition:**
- There are existing platforms that offer music promotion and community engagement, such as SoundCloud, Bandcamp, and social media channels. What sets your app apart from these competitors? How will you address the competitive landscape?

8. **Technological Infrastructure:**
- What kind of technological infrastructure will be necessary to support the app’s functionality, particularly in terms of data storage, streaming capabilities, and user interface?

By addressing these questions, you'll be able to refine your concept and identify potential pitfalls and opportunities. I'm interested to hear your thoughts on these aspects and how you plan to tackle them.

How would you answer these questions?

Chatgpt answer to these questions...

Sure, I'll provide some answers to these questions, offering possible solutions and considerations to help refine your concept further.

1. **Motivation for Initial Followers:**
- **Incentives and Gamification:** To motivate initial followers, you could implement a points or rewards system where musicians earn points for listening to and promoting new music. These points could be redeemed for premium features, promotional boosts for their own music, or even physical rewards like merchandise.
- **Community Benefits:** Emphasize the community aspect where musicians can gain exposure by engaging with others. Creating a culture of mutual support can encourage musicians to actively participate.

2. **Quality Control:**
- **Curation and Moderation:** Implement a curation system where a panel of experienced musicians or moderators reviews submissions to ensure a basic level of quality.
- **User Feedback:** Allow users to rate and provide feedback on songs. Over time, algorithms can prioritize music that receives positive feedback while filtering out lower-quality content.

3. **Community Dynamics:**
- **Code of Conduct:** Establish a clear code of conduct and community guidelines to promote positive interactions and discourage negative behavior.
- **Moderation Tools:** Provide tools for reporting abuse and a team of moderators to handle disputes and enforce rules.
- **Encouraging Collaboration:** Foster a collaborative environment by hosting challenges, collaborations, and virtual meetups where musicians can work together and support each other.

4. **Monetization Strategy:**
- **Balanced Ad Integration:** Carefully place ads in a way that doesn’t disrupt the user experience, such as between songs or in non-intrusive banners.
- **Tiered Subscriptions:** Offer a tiered subscription model where basic features are free, and premium features like advanced analytics, promotional boosts, and additional storage are available for a fee.
- **Revenue Sharing:** Implement a revenue-sharing model for song sales where the app takes a small cut, ensuring musicians earn more than they would from traditional streaming services.

5. **Scalability:**
- **Robust Infrastructure:** Invest in scalable cloud infrastructure to handle increasing data storage and streaming needs. Services like AWS or Google Cloud could be beneficial.
- **Algorithm Development:** Develop algorithms that balance exposure opportunities for new and existing musicians, ensuring fair visibility across the platform.

6. **Retention and Growth:**
- **Continuous Engagement:** Keep users engaged with regular updates, new features, and community events. Personalized recommendations and notifications can keep users returning.
- **Marketing and Partnerships:** Partner with music schools, local music scenes, and influential musicians to attract new users. Utilize social media marketing and influencer partnerships to spread the word.

7. **Competition:**
- **Unique Value Proposition:** Differentiate your app by emphasizing guaranteed initial exposure, a strong community focus, and potential earnings from song sales.
- **Feature Innovation:** Continuously innovate with features that existing platforms lack, such as personalized mentoring programs, collaborative tools, or AI-driven music insights.

8. **Technological Infrastructure:**
- **Cloud Services:** Use cloud services for scalable storage and computing power. Ensure robust data protection and backup solutions.
- **User-Friendly Interface:** Design an intuitive and visually appealing user interface to enhance user experience.
- **Development Team:** Assemble a skilled development team to build and maintain the app, ensuring it runs smoothly and efficiently as it scales.

These answers provide a foundational approach to addressing the critical aspects of your app concept. By considering these solutions, you can better prepare for the challenges and opportunities that lie ahead in developing your platform.

 

[NickGrogan]

First thought: stop asking ChatGPT questions. Its a text generation engine, it doesn't know anything and you're asking leading questions anyway.

First Question: How are you going to get a few thousand musicians to sign up, and what will you do until then?

Let's say I'm a musician with a song or two. I find out about your app and download it. I sign up all excited and find out you only have 50 members. I can't get 1000 followers or 20 listens, so what do I do? Delete the app and carry on as usual.

Second Question: Why an app? Its really hard to get people to download apps, and even harder to get people to use them, so why are you building a wall?

Youtube has 114 Million channels - ie people who've signed up to create something.
Over those 114 Million, only 10 million have more than 1,000 subscribers. About 8%

1000 followers is a lot.

I can see what you've described being made to work, kind of.

 

[Shopclicks]

Here's how I see the problem of unheard talent. It's only a lack of self-motivation that stops singers/musicians from creating their own audience. Call it what you like but in a nutshell if you want to be heard, you can. If an artist thinks the solution to their 'no audience' problem is to simply rely on one app, they have zero chance of success. Not because the app doesn't work but because they don't work.

There are so many platforms for artists and musicians to use, if you aren't on all of them posting fresh content every day, you don't deserve success. It's only hard work that gets an unknown an audience. No excuses. If you want to make money, work for it.

I know of an Irish singer called Allie Sherlock. A young street performer. Not for the money but for the content. I don't subscribe to her channel but her videos and shorts show up in my YouTube feed.
She has 6 million YouTube subscribers and 2.8 million Instagram subscribers. I think she's doing ok. Talented people have every opportunity to do the same. Some will and some won't. I think your app might catch the 'some won't'.

It's really hard to change people's habits.

 

[NickGrogan]

I think your app might catch the 'some won't'.

I totally agree, but that's a big market, probably bigger than the "some that will" market.

Plenty of people think they're the next big thing, if only someone would stop and look.

 

[WaveJumper]

Here's how I see the problem of unheard talent. It's only a lack of self-motivation that stops singers/musicians from creating their own audience. Call it what you like but in a nutshell if you want to be heard, you can. If an artist thinks the solution to their 'no audience' problem is to simply rely on one app, they have zero chance of success. Not because the app doesn't work but because they don't work.

There are so many platforms for artists and musicians to use, if you aren't on all of them posting fresh content every day, you don't deserve success. It's only hard work that gets an unknown an audience. No excuses. If you want to make money, work for it.

I know of an Irish singer called Allie Sherlock. A young street performer. Not for the money but for the content. I don't subscribe to her channel but her videos and shorts show up in my YouTube feed.
She has 6 million YouTube subscribers and 2.8 million Instagram subscribers. I think she's doing ok. Talented people have every opportunity to do the same. Some will and some won't. I think your app might catch the 'some won't'.

It's really hard to change people's habits.

Totally agree with this from @Shopclicks and not sure I see any investment opportunities in someone producing another App

 

[NickGrogan]

Totally agree with this from @Shopclicks and not sure I see any investment opportunities in someone producing another App

Forget the app bit, thats a red herring. All it needs a website.

 

[NickGrogan]

This would lead to much more income for musicians, with the app taking a cut from each sale. And here is where huge amounts of money can be made.

Is your app is going to replace Apple Music?

 

[fisicx]

The app then promotes their profile to the other musicians on the app until they have been followed 1000 times.

The app then promotes your song to your 1000 followers until it has been listened to twenty times.

Respectfully, how are you going to get these musicians to sign up? And how are you going to get non-musicians to sign up and listen to this music?

The idea is great. I have no problem with the idea. But unless you have a plan to make it happen it's only ever going to be an idea. It's not something anyone would want to take on without at least an MVP to demostrate the concept.

Are you a musician? Do you actively seek and listen to unknown artist or do you prefer to listen to music you like?

 

[NickGrogan]

Respectfully, how are you going to get these musicians to sign up? And how are you going to get non-musicians to sign up and listen to this music?

The idea is great. I have no problem with the idea. But unless you have a plan to make it happen it's only ever going to be an idea. It's not something anyone would want to take on without at least an MVP to demostrate the concept.

Are you a musician? Do you actively seek and listen to unknown artist or do you prefer to listen to music you like?

The easy part is getting musicians who want to be promoted without doing any work. Non-musicians don't need to sign up; it's just musicians listening to musicians. 1000 might take a while, but it's certainly doable.

Of course, there's no way of knowing if their sound is turned on when they "listen" to other people's songs.

 

[MJD12]

@mmga you're saying the app promotes the musician until they reach 1000 followers, but what if there's a general consensus that the musician is crap, you could be promoting them forever. So if I'm forced to listen to crap musicians, why would I use the app? Your idea feels like Tiktok or YouTube Shorts, but instead of scrolling through content you like, you're forced to watch either new users or low quality content. Also If this was to be hugely popular, YouTube could simply add a button to enable users to view such content.

 

[Shopclicks]

Also If this was to be hugely popular, YouTube could simply add a button to enable users to view such content.

It's a great thought.

This idea could be tested with a YouTube channel which only promotes new music. If you can't get an audience on YouTube, you almost certainly won't get an audience on a new app.

Forget the app bit, thats a red herring. All it needs a website.

Absolutely right. Far easier to get traffic to a website than an app.

 

[fisicx]

Actually the YT thing could really fly. Instead of each artist having their own channels you hang them all together.

 

[Shopclicks]

Actually the YT thing could really fly. Instead of each artist having their own channels you hang them all together.

And do what the lazy buggers won't do for themselves.

 

[NickGrogan]

Actually the YT thing could really fly. Instead of each artist having their own channels you hang them all together.

You could make a promote playlists, if you make a channel you'll be forever uploading and editing songs that no one wants to hear.

 

[NickGrogan]

So if I'm forced to listen to crap musicians, why would I use the app? Your idea feels like Tiktok or YouTube Shorts, but instead of scrolling through content you like, you're forced to watch either new users or low quality content.

People will happily sight and "watch" all kinds of crap if they imagine it's going to benefit them. Give them points for each video they watch and let them spend the points getting other people to watch their videos.

Open the app/website, click view videos - put the phone down somewhere, go and get some food, you've just watched 6 videos, now you can get 4 people to watch yours. 2 views for the system to sell.

Of course no one is actually watching or listening to anything, but in your imagination Jay Z or whoever is an avid user and is just waiting to sign people up.

 

[fisicx]

Which could happen with the app that @music has envisaged. You could get rampant click fraud.

Get an old phone. Load up the app and click away all day while doing something else. Wouldn’t take long for the click fraud farms in Asia to offer 1000 clicks/likes for $9.99

 

[NickGrogan]

Which could happen with the app that @music has envisaged. You could get rampant click fraud.

Get an old phone. Load up the app and click away all day while doing something else. Wouldn’t take long for the click fraud farms in Asia to offer 1000 clicks/likes for $9.99

The only change I'd make to this is would, not could. Otherwise 100% correct.

People who are too lazy to promote themselves are certainly too lazy to promote someone else.

How hard is to write a chrome extension to load a series of videos and track that they are watched to the end and a comment/like added?

 

[NickGrogan]

The only change I'd make to this is would, not could. Otherwise 100% correct.

People who are too lazy to promote themselves are certainly too lazy to promote someone else.

How hard is to write a chrome extension to load a series of videos and track that they are watched to the end and a comment/like added?

According to chatgpt, pretty easy, its spits out a few lines of code and says do this. Haven't tested yet.

 

[NickGrogan]

Just outline your objection, ask your question, and you'll probably find that I have the answer. I have thought about this a lot.

Do you think he's coming back?

It was a billion pound idea a few posts ago.

 

[Shopclicks]

Do you think he's coming back?

More interested in ChatGPT's 'thoughts' than mere humans. Or maybe just a reality check.

 

[Paul FilmMaker]

Here's how I see the problem of unheard talent. It's only a lack of self-motivation that stops singers/musicians from creating their own audience. Call it what you like but in a nutshell if you want to be heard, you can. If an artist thinks the solution to their 'no audience' problem is to simply rely on one app, they have zero chance of success. Not because the app doesn't work but because they don't work.

There are so many platforms for artists and musicians to use, if you aren't on all of them posting fresh content every day, you don't deserve success. It's only hard work that gets an unknown an audience. No excuses. If you want to make money, work for it.

I know of an Irish singer called Allie Sherlock. A young street performer. Not for the money but for the content. I don't subscribe to her channel but her videos and shorts show up in my YouTube feed.
She has 6 million YouTube subscribers and 2.8 million Instagram subscribers. I think she's doing ok. Talented people have every opportunity to do the same. Some will and some won't. I think your app might catch the 'some won't'.

It's really hard to change people's habits.

You're 100% right. The problem is artists want to see the view without having to climb the mountain.

I've dealt with more artists than I can remember. I buy music. I've filmed music vids, interviews, dance vids etc... And it always comes down to the same thing. Artists not understanding or wanting to do a metric ton of self-promotion.

This app doesn't solve it this problem.

 

[J Arnold]

Having been in an originals band, recorded albums in America, played Isle of Wight festival, been in magazines etc etc I feel I'm in a good position to comment.

How do you get your music heard,

You gig, you give out CD's or links to your music, create great looking merch with your bands cool logo on, you perfect your live show, write good songs, have a FB page, advertise your gigs, create music videos, write even better songs, get even better playing live.
Hook up and play show's with similar bands out of your town in front of their fans and vice versa

If you're good, people will tell their friends, come to your shows, buy your merch.

It's that simple.

All you have come with has already been done, it's called Soundcloud

 

[NickGrogan]

I'm going to disagree, I think that there is actually a big market for this app.

Not the one the OP was thinking of, its not going to change the music industry and bring back albums sales and all that.

And you're right, getting discovered and making something from it needs lots of hard work and the hard work never ends.

But there are a huge number of wannabes who don't want to do the hard work and are 100% convinced that if they just get a few views, they'll be discovered, and all their dreams will come true. The OP is one of them.

These people would happily pay a small monthly fee, click on ads, and watch other people's songs so that their stuff gets listened to. This solves the problem of "forcing" people to watch the videos you want.

1000 members watching 25 videos per day so that theirs get shown a few times is a fair number of ad views, and there are a lot more than 1000 people out there who think they should be discovered.

 

[fisicx]

In other words, it could be a nice little earner for the app owner. But wouldn’t help a single musical hopeful.

 

[NickGrogan]

In other words, it could be a nice little earner for the app owner. But wouldn’t help a single musical hopeful.

I did say its not the market the OP was thinking of.

Having said that, videos with views appear higher in Youtube search results than those without, so that could help. You could also encourage comments, which also works.

So, if someone's good enough, it might help them and it shouldn't do any harm.