The problems with SEO companies & digital agencies

[meursault2410]

Hi

Most who run their own business would've come across SEO companies who promise the Earth and deliver nothing. A few years ago I had the misfortune of dealing with an SEO company that built a lot of dodgy links to my site. This ended up in my website getting slapped by Google's Penguin.

Be interesting to learn what bad experiences others on this forum have had with SEO companies and digital agencies.

Al

 

[Ryan Scollon]

Hey,

I actually work for a digital marketing agency/SEO company. The truth is, 90% of our competition in Birmingham build dodgy links but claim to be 100% legit etc. We understand that some people just want easy cheap links and we always explain the consequences before we head them in the right direction, but it's horrible to see companies pay for crap and potentially put their company at risk without even knowing.

 

[Graham Tyers]

There are some good ones.

They're almost always not the ones that find you using spam or telesales!

 

[fisicx]

A lot of the problems stem from the fact that people aren't prepared to pay for good SEO work. They happily sign up for the £99/month deal and expect a £1000/month service. That just not going to happen.

 

[greyheart]

A lot of the problems stem from the fact that people aren't prepared to pay for good SEO work. They happily sign up for the £99/month deal and expect a £1000/month service. That just not going to happen.

Seconded.

 

[Marek Skoczylas]

A lot of the problems stem from the fact that people aren't prepared to pay for good SEO work. They happily sign up for the £99/month deal and expect a £1000/month service. That just not going to happen.

Brilliant sentence

 

[JamesMason67]

But then you could land a brilliant seo, maybe just left an agency, wants to start his own firm and offers cheap prices as an introduction, get some testimonials under his belt etc. That must happen a fair bit too.

Price doesn't always correlate with quality in seo. There are good cheap seo's and there are expensive crap ones who know how to market themselves. Not just in seo of course, but all across industry.

Plenty people sign up for the £1000 service and get the £99 one too.

 

[greyheart]

But then you could land a brilliant seo, maybe just left an agency, wants to start his own firm and offers cheap prices as an introduction, get some testimonials under his belt etc. That must happen a fair bit too.

Price doesn't always correlate with quality in seo. There are good cheap seo's and there are expensive crap ones who know how to market themselves. Not just in seo of course, but all across industry.

Plenty people sign up for the £1000 service and get the £99 one too.

This is true, but I'd say few and far between. (Keeping in mind I have actually done this). You also have to keep in mind that with this does come problems.

I've watched well intentioned and capable guys overstretch this way.

 

[fisicx]

Plenty people sign up for the £1000 service and get the £99 one too.

Indeed, and because ranking improves they think they have a good deal.

Some people sign up when they don't even need SEO - they already rank well for their chosen keywords - but chose the wrong keywords to rank for. What they need is marketing advice not SEO.

 

[greyheart]

Indeed, and because ranking improves they think they have a good deal.

Some people sign up when they don't even need SEO - they already rank well for their chosen keywords - but chose the wrong keywords to rank for. What they need is marketing advice not SEO.

Definitely, but KW research is part of SEO, that said the amount of SEO's who don't put the time into understanding the clients business and what actually makes them money is depressing. Genuinely spoke to a guy not long ago who had been with 6 agencies and nobody had ever asked him which of his products he had the biggest margins on or what the lifetime customer values were in different areas etc. And ever so surprisingly this massively changed what he should be targeting...

 

[DhruvSoft]

There are several clients which have same kind of problem like “They are fed up with SEO agencies” “their agencies are not doing good SEO”. But not always is the same case there are companies which are very happy with their SEO outsourcing. Now question what difference makes between happy clients and not satisfied clients with their SEO agencies?

First thing is that such unhappy client don’t do enquirers properly. Some of them find SEO agencies which are ranking well for their keywords, and thinks that if they are ranking higher they probably would be have better SEO tactic. This is entirely incorrect and a bad decision to hire such agencies.

Second thing is that don’t get gimmick with free SEO audit, guaranteed results etc. These are the things which may just trap you.

Here are the thigs which may help you to understand why some SEO agencies fail to deliver:

1. In some SEO agencies there are separate teams for client handling and real work of SEO. Well experienced team members present their services in a well-mannered, but the real SEO work is done by junior team.

2. Many agencies not pay their SEO’s enough, that’s why there is lack of good SEO’s in such agencies.

3. SEO’s in agencies may have worloaded with work that makes them fail to deliver proper seo to their client.

4. Frequent changes of SEO Managers are very common in SEO agencies which also make a hurdle to get better SEO results.

Even though there are agencies which have maintained a good client reputation. All what you need to do is find a good SEO Agency who have a good record of SEO delivery. Approach some inquiry before hiring any SEO agency from next time, you will definitely get a better one.

 

[Marek Skoczylas]

Now question what difference makes between happy clients and not satisfied clients with their SEO agencies?

Money?

 

[Hospitality_king]

Price doesn't always correlate with quality in seo.

Plenty people sign up for the £1000 service and get the £99 one too

Too often is the case, but web is big and so you get likely tens of 1000's playing the game as 'consultant'. Theres too many all doing the paid for effort than the paid for results, but fatal flaw is to risk losing tons by trying a few out then realising you got stung, then shelling out more for the slim chance of nailing someone good. Risk is too great, too many charlatans all claiming their the best etc, A - No1 blah blah - load of sales cobblers.

See, you wont find out the results for a campaign, unless you pay the buggers, so we gave up on the ego sales-led monkeys and did it ourselves. If you ask us, their all the same bunch of copycats bs nonsense who will take your cash and run, leaving you potless and a site about to get penalised.

 

[James Lees]

We are in that mix unfortunately. We are a young company who have started up with the hope of offering and affordable service at a high end level to blow the budget agencies who offer a substandard service out of the water.
In online marketing there are too many agencies popping up full of sales people and lacking in service delivery.
But because of how young we are to ensure we grow we have to compete with these companies in the telesales arena so it does make that job harder.
The best advice I can offer when coming across companies offering their services is to speak to their clients and research their reviews online. Every good agency will be happy to give names of people they have worked with, I know we are.

 

[JamesMason67]

Its a constant struggle James, trying to separate yourself from the cowboys. I'm in an industry that generally has a bad name (Construction) and where every client is worried they are getting ripped off.

I think their are strong parallels between the two industries in that respect and it is difficult, no very difficult to allay (sp?) peoples fears. 30 years in business and I still haven't really worked it out fully.

Our most comfortable clients are always the ones that have been recommended our company by one of their friends, which is a lot thankfully, but in general people are a bit wary, just as they are with SEO.

Dealing with this client fear effectively, in my opinion is a huge part of the marketing of a business, particularly in our spheres.

If you are really out to do the best you can for your clients, then I wish you the very best of luck James.

James

 

[James Lees]

Thanks for that JamesMason67.

We really are and we do have a clear message that we want to convey. A new website is getting developed as we speak which will showcase us more and demonstrate to prospective clients exactly what we can do and how.

We have grown to over 120 clients in 3 years which is brilliant considering the lack of a sales force we have had. So not doing too bad.

Hopefully we can get to the 30 year mark and beyond like yourself.

Its a constant struggle James, trying to separate yourself from the cowboys. I'm in an industry that generally has a bad name (Construction) and where every client is worried they are getting ripped off.

I think their are strong parallels between the two industries in that respect and it is difficult, no very difficult to allay (sp?) peoples fears. 30 years in business and I still haven't really worked it out fully.

Our most comfortable clients are always the ones that have been recommended our company by one of their friends, which is a lot thankfully, but in general people are a bit wary, just as they are with SEO.

Dealing with this client fear effectively, in my opinion is a huge part of the marketing of a business, particularly in our spheres.

If you are really out to do the best you can for your clients, then I wish you the very best of luck James.

James

 

[JamesMason67]

Well done on your company's acheivements thus far.

You know what annoyed me most when I used to hire SEO companies? The only contact from them over the course of a month was an invoice.

I'm a reasonable guy. I know SEO takes a bit of time, but whats wrong with sending the client a couple of paragraphs saying what has been done that month. Just a basic wee report. Ten minutes worth.

When this kind of no contact service was given to me, coupled with no noticeable gain in rankings over say 3 months I immediately think I'm getting ripped off. However, keep in touch with me, show me whats been done and why, and this will certainly extend my patience.

I'm sure I speak for all or most SEO consumers when I say this. SEO companies take note.
Let us know whats happening.

I'm confident you're already doing this James?

 

[James Lees]

That is a huge bugbear of mine as well James.

I used to work client side and deal with agencies a lot myself and you do often get the feeling that you just get invoiced and that's that.

One thing we need to do to be different from our competition is to be proactive with our contact with the client and how we attack the management of our clients campaigns. If we don't, then we just become another agency which is not what we want.

Well done on your company's acheivements thus far.

You know what annoyed me most when I used to hire SEO companies? The only contact from them over the course of a month was an invoice.

I'm a reasonable guy. I know SEO takes a bit of time, but whats wrong with sending the client a couple of paragraphs saying what has been done that month. Just a basic wee report. Ten minutes worth.

When this kind of no contact service was given to me, coupled with no noticeable gain in rankings over say 3 months I immediately think I'm getting ripped off. However, keep in touch with me, show me whats been done and why, and this will certainly extend my patience.

I'm sure I speak for all or most SEO consumers when I say this. SEO companies take note.
Let us know whats happening.

I'm confident you're already doing this James?

 

[fisicx]

One thing we need to do to be different from our competition is to be proactive with our contact with the client and how we attack the management of our clients campaigns. If we don't, then we just become another agency which is not what we want.

All well and good but this is a thread about SEO and your company doesn't do SEO - so I'm a bit confused.

 

[James Lees]

My initial response was in regards to Online Marketing companies as a whole to be fair. We all sit under the same umbrella I find when speaking to clients

All well and good but this is a thread about SEO and your company doesn't do SEO - so I'm a bit confused.

 

[Marek Skoczylas]

All well and good but this is a thread about SEO and your company doesn't do SEO - so I'm a bit confused.

About SEO companies & digital agencies. In almost all cases digital agencies have PPC in their offer.

We have grown to over 120 clients in 3 years which is brilliant

Great stats pal.

 

[James Lees]

About SEO companies & digital agencies. In almost all cases digital agencies have PPC in their offer.



Great stats pal.

Thanks Marek

 

[David G Rees]

A lot of the problems stem from the fact that people aren't prepared to pay for good SEO work. They happily sign up for the £99/month deal and expect a £1000/month service. That just not going to happen.

Exactly as stated above. There is so much more to SEO / digital marketing than just back-links.
It takes a lot of time, effort and knowledge to do SEO and marketing for a website properly. Businesses should think of SEO as a long-term investment for the business not just go for some quick cheap fix, which will end up harming the site in the long run. It takes constant monitoring to keep your website ranking well and performing at a high level. We actually charge clients on a month by month basis, no long contracts so hopefully they can be satisfied with our continued work. Sadly SEO has got a bad reputation because of shady practices and we find it very hard to get past that image sometimes.

 

[Katie Grimason]

Exactly as stated above. There is so much more to SEO / digital marketing than just back-links.
It takes a lot of time, effort and knowledge to do SEO and marketing for a website properly. Businesses should think of SEO as a long-term investment for the business not just go for some quick cheap fix, which will end up harming the site in the long run. It takes constant monitoring to keep your website ranking well and performing at a high level. We actually charge clients on a month by month basis, no long contracts so hopefully they can be satisfied with our continued work. Sadly SEO has got a bad reputation because of shady practices and we find it very hard to get past that image sometimes.

Completely agree with David's comment. I work for a digital marketing agency that mainly focuses on SEO, and I do enjoy helping out a range of businesses. I've seen bad SEO done that has sadly harmed websites, caused a penalty and made the rankings drop. I think a reason a lot of people lose faith in SEO providers is because of all the negativity that surrounds them. Maybe they've had bad experiences before, been promised the world and they haven't had any results.

My advice for people (if you are looking for an SEO provider) is to do some research on the company beforehand. A genuine company will be honest, upfront and transparent in what they do. If they say they can get you to the top of a search engine very early on, this is a red flag straightaway because the way they're doing it isn't ethical. It is a long process that takes time and patience,but it's worth it. Cutting corners and doing dodgy tactics will only hurt the site. It's a shame there are a lot of SEO companies out there who only care about making money and quick, cheap wins but there are some good ones who are happy to advise you and do the job properly.

 

[Marek Skoczylas]

Completely agree with David's comment. I work for a digital marketing agency that mainly focuses on SEO, and I do enjoy helping out a range of businesses. I've seen bad SEO done that has sadly harmed websites, caused a penalty and made the rankings drop. I think a reason a lot of people lose faith in SEO providers is because of all the negativity that surrounds them. Maybe they've had bad experiences before, been promised the world and they haven't had any results.

My advice for people (if you are looking for an SEO provider) is to do some research on the company beforehand. A genuine company will be honest, upfront and transparent in what they do. If they say they can get you to the top of a search engine very early on, this is a red flag straightaway because the way they're doing it isn't ethical. It is a long process that takes time and patience,but it's worth it. Cutting corners and doing dodgy tactics will only hurt the site. It's a shame there are a lot of SEO companies out there who only care about making money and quick, cheap wins but there are some good ones who are happy to advise you and do the job properly.

I know it sounds sweet for a potential customer - risk free, job properly done, we are the best and others are doing dodgy tactics. You're finally in the right place at the right time.

The point is that every SEO company claim to use legit methods. But the truth is - any SEO ain't legit at all.

Till you play games with easy keywords, you're far beyond the google pinnule. But if you'll try to play the games with 1000 pound gorillaz, you will understand there is no difference between white and black SEO. You just need to swim in both black and white pools for a while to understand the essence of SEO safety.

 

[David G Rees]

What?
SEO isnt legit?
Sorry your post does not make any sense and to call someone sweety is very condescending.

 

[Marek Skoczylas]

What?
SEO isnt legit?
Sorry your post does not make any sense and to call someone sweety is very condescending.

Edited

I was referring to off-page SEO especially to backlinks building

 

[David G Rees]

Fair enough, but in my opinion backlinking plays a major role, BUT they have to be relevant and not just spammy.

 

[Marek Skoczylas]

Please give me an example of not-spammy link that you can deliver for your clients website.

 

[fisicx]

Fair enough, but in my opinion backlinking plays a major role

It depends on the keywords. The local plumber probably doesn't need any inbound links. Really good on page optimisation can get you some great ranking.

 

[threenine]

Personally, I do think SEO is a somewhat dead horse.

I'm not saying the backlinking and optimization blah blah are not important. Yes they play a role, but what I think is probably the most misinterpreted and miscommunicated is what SEO actually does.

The trouble is that people believe that "Being 1st on Google" is the key to success. It's not.
Your site needs a lot more than just a good Search Result ranking, so people base their KPI's around search engine result ranking, instead of the real values.

SEO is only effective as part of comprehensive digital marketing strategy, but many businesses do not invest in the whole strategy, and think they can cherry pick. So majority of business go for a mix of SEO/PPC and then moan that things aren't working!

 

[David G Rees]

Exactly....i prefer the term digital marketing because its not just backlinks its so much more, optimising your website to maximise sales. Being first on Google means nothing unless you can convert that traffic into something tangible.

 

[Hospitality_king]

I know it sounds sweet for a potential customer - risk free, job properly done, we are the best and others are doing dodgy tactics. You're finally in the right place at the right time.

Agents can't tell clients they will get them 1000 links, then deliver 1000 off target ones, then charge them for it, tis out of order.... SEo relies on free form filling, as agents don't want to stick their clients with additional fees, yet are still ok about planting them onto websites that clearly charge.

Seo has diversified a bit as we now have social media, but its still form filling with no skill attached, with agents taking the credit when they aren't the ones doing the promotion - its the link placement platform that does the work and gets the results.

 

[Marek Skoczylas]

Its a bit funny when someone is trying to publicly play the first violin with the same old song, claiming to be the only safe and reliable company across the town or even industry.

Its obvious that every offer need to be engaging, promising and potentially profitable for potential customer.

Can you imagine the offer like:

- our SEO company sucks, we do only shady and dodgy tactics and you risk far more than just Google penalty. If we cant rank your website than we will do the same as your former SEO company - take your money and run.

All I try to say is that any SEO tactic is not safe and dont guarantee long term effect. There were thousands of examples in the past where pure white hat SEO get burned by Google in flash.

So trying to highlight yourself especially among SEO community with "white hat tactics" is more that just a joke.

 

[Hospitality_king]

What strikes us is so many seos say they offer some high tech form of skill, when all it is is link-building, which means spam.

With this offering, they need lots of free places to wack the links onto - such places are a mixture of off target, to poorly run, deep level link pages full to the brim of other seo, link-dropped sites. Such places are running out or being removed as sites are redesigned or whatever, so placement is tough. So when seo guy makes his promise of 1000 links for $500, he has a problem of finding new free fodder to stash the client links.

I doubt you caould find 1000 free spots of worthy value and certainly none for free, its a losing battle and when client finds out that Mr SEO under delivered, try explaining that one to the client that just got mugged.

 

[Cococarb]

If you are still in the belief that "SEO" still exists, You are no better than Jehovah's witnesses. I worked in the industry for 9 years and last of SEO techniques died about 2 1/2 years ago. Since then Google kept tweaking the algos and you kept seeing ups and downs that nothing to do with SEO strategy you employed. SEARCH IS PERSONALISED AND GOOGLE KEEP IMPROVING THE PERSONALISATION.

 

[Cococarb]

No. There arent good ones. Just do the basics on your own.

 

[eesltd]

last of SEO techniques died about 2 1/2 years ago

I bet Panda and Penguin are your favorite pets.

 

[David G Rees]

Of course SEO still exists, it just changes and will continue to change as other factors come into play.

 

[Marek Skoczylas]

Many "SEOs" can't move forward anymore without SEO "tools" like Xrumer, Scrapebox etc...