The problem with website designers

[japancool]

Our portfolio is about projects that have delivered big updates in leads, sales, calls, reduced PPC cost etc, some good looking sites don't even feature on it.

That's not how we get leads. We're in an extremely niche industry, so all our leads come via personal reommendation or word of mouth.

 

[Shopclicks]

That's not how we get leads. We're in an extremely niche industry, so all our leads come via personal reommendation or word of mouth.

So nobody is searching for what you do? Just trying to understand.

 

[Newchodge]

Nationwide has just changed their logo. The new one is naff. But do any nationwide customers care? I’d suggest not.

Me! Me! I care. I am a Nationwide customer and have spent hours staring at the old logo trying to work out what the heck it was supposed to be. It was a huge distraction. I even considered getting in touch to ask what it was supposed to be. The new logo is, at least, understandable.

 

[japancool]

So nobody is searching for what you do? Just trying to understand.

No, they won't be.

 

[Paul Carmen]

So nobody is searching for what you do? Just trying to understand.

No, they won't be.

What's the site for then, what does it need to do for customers; e.g. their journey and the functionality, does it need to be integrated with anything, what's it going to have content/copy wise (who will produce it), how often does it change, who will manage that etc.... why can't he write a brief?

I guarantee you'll get a better result from any quote or process with a proper brief. It will avoid the £10k all singing, all dancing quote, plus the template in India scenario.

 

[japancool]

What's the site for then, what does it need to do for customers; e.g. their journey and the functionality, does it need to be integrated with anything, what's it going to have content/copy wise (who will produce it), how often does it change, who will manage that etc.... why can't he write a brief?

I think he wants someone to take a look at the current content, and work with an internal staff member to distill it down to what actually needs to be on there. I guess one of the problems is that no one wants to volunteer to do it internally, we're all too busy. So what he REALLY wants is someone who is familiar with the industry - which isn't going to happen unless he goes to an agency that is as specialised as we are.

 

[Paul Carmen]

It sounds like he needs consultancy help then, rather than knowing what he wants. I suspect that's why he's getting expensive or wide of the mark quotes.

As an agency, we steer clear of that sort of work (unless someone is prepared to pay for the consultancy work upfront), as otherwise you are often working for free.

 

[japancool]

It sounds like he needs consultancy help then, rather than knowing what he wants. I suspect that's why he's getting expensive or wide of the mark quotes.

It's more like he knows what he doesn't want (or maybe doesn't need) rather than what he does want.

As I said, it would be ok if someone internal took up consultancy part of the project, but no one wants to (I sure as hell don't).

It's also finding a designer who is prepared to do that kind of consultancy. I think what he found is people who want to sell him what they are familiar with, rather than being prepared to do the consultancy.

 

[Paul Carmen]

It's also finding a designer who is prepared to do that kind of consultancy. I think what he found is people who want to sell him what they are familiar with, rather than being prepared to do the consultancy.

Ah, I see.

They do exist, we do the consultancy/research piece as part of website and project work, but it's a chargeable service. Plus, without an expert in the business who can spend the time required on it, the project could well be a nightmare...

 

[antropy]

No, they won't be.

I think it's unlikely that there's anything that isn't searched on Google.

Paul.

 

[Craiglincs]

Yes. But it's an old book and whilst some of the concepts are still valid many are out of date. Colours and shapes may have some influence but the detail less so. 50px circle or a 48px circle doesn't matter. It's the circle people see.

This just proves my point - it was the general shape of the logo you recalled not the details.

There was a study done in a factory to see if people worked better with lights bright or dim etc. turned out it was the change they were responding too

 

[Ameer Draidy]

Good thread. A few practical steps that actually help:


Ask the FD to write a short list of must-haves and nice-to-haves (features, how often they’ll update the site, and any systems it needs to tie into). That single list makes it much easier to spot people who’ll stick to the brief.


If updates will be rare, a plain five-page HTML site is fast and simple. If non-technical staff need to edit content now and then, a very stripped-back WordPress setup with one person managing updates works well — no need for fancy extras.


When you talk to designers, ask them to DM three live brochure sites they’ve built — not e-commerce showcases. If they can’t show similar work, they’re not the right fit.

 

[EnterprisePro]

As others have alluded to, don't make the website a vanity project, just for the sake of having a website. You need to explore the business objectives and goals. A website is only one of many sales and marketing channels. The goals might be 'to get more leads', 'to increase brand awareness', 'to share company news' or 'to provide an excellent user experience for our customers (if its a web app)', or a combination of all of these and possibly others, but as the OP said, they don't need anything too fancy.

To the OP, what is the actual goal or business objective you're looking to fulfil? If you're not looking to rank and so forth, what are the actual goals and what business opportunities could you potentially capitalise on with having a website refresh?

 

[Chris Ashdown]

My day job is in IT, but as my boss knows I also work in e-commerce, he asked me if I knew anyone who could redesign their website.

I said I do but... none of them would be appropriate for what he wants.

The issue is that we operate in a very niche industry. We don't need to rank on Google, we don't advertise and we don't need a social media presence. Most of the designers he's approached fall into one of two categories - they either want to re-do the whole thing with bells, whistles and dancing girls (and run to tens of thousands of pounds), or they're just going to use pre-made templates and whack a bit of content on it, probably outsourced to someone in India to do.

What we want is a simple, professional looking site that's not going to age quickly. Our current site runs on Wordpress, is "kinda" responsive, and has about 20 pages - we probably only need 5. It perhaps needs the occasional update, but it needs to be simple, and effective. No blogs, and definitely no pictures of staff. We might update the occasional video or bit of text, but that's it.

My boss is the kind of person who knows exactly what he's looking for - the moment anyone starts suggesting things we don't want or didn't ask for, he'll just switch off and chances are, put the phone down. The question is... well, I'm not entirely sure what we're looking for, but it's definitely not someone who primarily specialises in e-commerce sites. Thoughts and feedback appreciated.

This section seems strange "The issue is that we operate in a very niche industry. We don't need to rank on Google, we don't advertise and we don't need a social media presence" surly a website sells your company, a niche industry may be useful for other companies outside of your present contacts, google can bring in potential new customers from it's vast search system and a website is a advert in its own right plus I often search for suppliers, where i have no idea of what segment or area i should be searching for and just follow possibly routes to find a supplier of the service i want

 

[japancool]

This section seems strange "The issue is that we operate in a very niche industry. We don't need to rank on Google, we don't advertise and we don't need a social media presence" surly a website sells your company, a niche industry may be useful for other companies outside of your present contacts, google can bring in potential new customers from it's vast search system and a website is a advert in its own right plus I often search for suppliers, where i have no idea of what segment or area i should be searching for and just follow possibly routes to find a supplier of the service i want

If your clients are, for example, people who want to buy £100 million superyachts, you don't need a website to sell your company. Your potential customers aren't going to be sold on a Google search. They're going to find out from their friends who have £100 million superyachts.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

If your clients are, for example, people who want to buy £100 million superyachts, you don't need a website to sell your company. Your potential customers aren't going to be sold on a Google search. They're going to find out from their friends who have £100 million superyachts.

Why all the adverts for super cars and Yachts in the magazines then. They all have adverts for the latest and greatest under the title of Reviews.

 

[Newchodge]

Why all the adverts for super cars and Yachts in the magazines then. They all have adverts for the latest and greatest under the title of Reviews.

That's to explain to those who don't yet have them, what they should aspire to having.

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

If your clients are, for example, people who want to buy £100 million superyachts, you don't need a website

But I bet all of the super yacht manufacturers have websites! How else do you browse the market? Yes, you could go to shows, but the nouveau rich, who always have shopped via the web, probably will not change their process overnight.

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

But I bet all of the super yacht manufacturers have websites! How else do you browse the market? Yes, you could go to shows, but the nouveau rich, who always have shopped via the web, probably will not change their process oveovernight

We do a bit of work for these yacht builders
They have a site but they don't go to the shopping cart for a 12 mill dinghy
A sales executive and an engineer will go to lunch with you or take you for a sail off Plymouth sound in a similar model

 

[Shopclicks]

So given that this thread is two years old, are we to assume nobody was engaged to rebuild the boss's website?

 

[japancool]

But I bet all of the super yacht manufacturers have websites! How else do you browse the market? Yes, you could go to shows, but the nouveau rich, who always have shopped via the web, probably will not change their process overnight.

They have them. But they're not sales tools. You're not going to find an "add to cart" button on their sites.

As for how you browse the market, your PA arranges a meeting with a representative of the yacht builder who takes your requirements and comes back with a proposed design. These things aren't built off the shelf, they're all custom.

 

[japancool]

Why all the adverts for super cars and Yachts in the magazines then. They all have adverts for the latest and greatest under the title of Reviews.

Cars and yachts are different. I've never seen an advert for a £300 million superyacht. I don't read those kinds of magazines. Do you? Have they made you want to buy one?

 

[japancool]

So given that this thread is two years old, are we to assume nobody was engaged to rebuild the boss's website?

Someone only revived it to post some spam.

 

[Shopclicks]

Someone only revived it to post some spam.

Chosen based on this person's previous project portfolio obviously. Or not.

 

[japancool]

I just had a look at the website of one of the companies in the industry - one that maintains these vessels, and a former client of ours. Their website is for investors, not for customers. I mean, why do you think a company like Saudi Aramco has a website? To tell consumers where they can fill up their cars?

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

They're going to find out from their friends who have £100 million superyachts.

Your assuming they have friends who have £100 million superyachts.

A picture is worth a thousand words. A website gives you plenty of those and contact details.

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

They have them. But they're not sales tools.

Yes, it is a sales brochure.

Without it, they won't show up in searches (they will if they are listed on Google Business, but no where to go to!).