The death of the pub? ?

[JuliaClementsRoche]

We've had a request from a journalist who is looking to speak with a pub owner or manager about their thoughts on latest data that shows pub numbers have hit a record low in the UK.

The journalist has a few specific questions they would like to ask you about how pubs should adapt to continue to attract customers, and what the government should do to help pub owners who are struggling.

If you are a pub owner or manager, and could be interested in some online coverage for your pub, please DM me before Thursday this week.

 

[Mark T Jones]

I've worked 'the other side' providing finance to pubs restaurants and hospitality for many years (less so in the last 2)

I can give quite a lit if insight to what differentiates the successful from the unsuccessful- which could be summarised as 'its not what people think it is'

Unfortunately my views are very much not what media people want to hear or print, starting with

- the main reason independent pubs fail is because their landlords/ tenants don't have a clue what they are doing

- if you start throwing concessions like lowering VAT or eat out to help out, the poor will limp along fir a little longer, whilst the smart will expand their empires

So perhaps I'm not your man!

 

[DazRave]

Is it more to do with the economy/inflation or the lack of demand with the next generations maybe? If it's more to do with the latter, is it even wise to protect a business that doesn't have enough customers anyway?

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Rather simplistic t assume that present and past landlords have no tried many different things to entice customers, but found the costs to be to high out of any profit or their footfall area prefers a bottle of plonk / beer from Tesco at home

 

[Casually made]

Not sure it really requires an investigation or that there's much that can be done

Drinking culture as a whole doesn't seem as popular as it once was in the UK , i am 30 i enjoy a drink a now and then but couldn't think of anything worse than sitting in a pub on a Tuesday night sinking pints with barflies for the sake of it,

Feel like that ship sailed off in the late 90's and won't be coming back

Next problem is cost your looking at anything between 5 & 7 quid for a pint of lager and whilst you can just about get away with it in central London,

In most other areas people aren't so keen to part with that cash as most "locals" don't offer any experience other than maybe live sport

Tradesmen are probably the only demographic left that would happily regularly suggest a "pint for the sake of it" after work but drinking is deeply embedded into tradesman culture

 

[Mark T Jones]

Rather simplistic t assume that present and past landlords have no tried many different things to entice customers, but found the costs to be to high out of any profit or their footfall area prefers a bottle of plonk / beer from Tesco at home

Times have changed, habits have changed - most old landlords are trying hard to relive the past - friendly old locals propping up the bar, putting the world to rights .
Most new landlords just try random stuff that they think will be a good idea.


I don't know current stats (though I do know that parts of the trade are doing well) pre covid, overall f & b spend I pubs and bars consistently rose ahead of inflation - add rooms and there really was some serious spending

 

[fisicx]

Only time I go to a pub is with friends and for food. Driving means just one pint. And we rarely return to a particular pub, we like to explore different places.

 

[simon field]

Some real dross round our way (rural Norfolk)

But equally, some real good examples of how to do it properly - fresh beer, great food, lovely gardens, live music etc.

I like pubs. A lot.

 

[Newchodge]

I live in a place with a population of about 10,000. 7 pubs (1 doing food) 1 working men's. club, rugby club and cricket club. There again, I do live in the north east and a pint of John Smiths is £2.10 in the pub I visit regularly.

 

[IanSuth]

I live in a place with a population of about 10,000. 7 pubs (1 doing food) 1 working men's. club, rugby club and cricket club. There again, I do live in the north east and a pint of John Smiths is £2.10 in the pub I visit regularly.

In the pubs a pint is £4-4.50 depending on strength, in the 2 rugby clubs i frequent i get members discount so £3-3.50 mark (and that is Berkshire). Last week i was at a Bike event in a pub, the landlord had 5 barrels of real ale set up on stillages in the beer garden, you paid your £4 per pint at the bar and helped yourself - Honesty bar. He seemed happy with the result and the amount of thai food ordered from his kitchen I reckon he made a killing. (it was a rural foodie pub just reopening after a refurb, just the c60 bikers and a handful of locals (some family of the single barmaid), so it was able to function that way.

 

[Ryan Paul]

As others have said, drinking culture and society has changed.
There are so many variables.

 

[WaveJumper]

As above drinking culture has changed, drink driving not acceptable anymore also I wonder if the smoking ban also helped the demise further. Personally I think unless the pub has a good food offering / restaurant I see no reason to go there.

 

[Mark T Jones]

As above drinking culture has changed, drink driving not acceptable anymore also I wonder if the smoking ban also helped the demise further. Personally I think unless the pub has a good food offering / restaurant I see no reason to go there.

Again, it's really about knowing hour customer

Drinking pubs still exist and can thrive in certain circumstances


A couple of examples- yourhs will generally pile into an Uber and drink in town centres

Smaller "hole in the wall" type operations serving beer to an older crowd

 

[Ryan Paul]

Again, it's really about knowing hour customer

Drinking pubs still exist and can thrive in certain circumstances


A couple of examples- yourhs will generally pile into an Uber and drink in town centres

Smaller "hole in the wall" type operations serving beer to an older crowd

There will always be "hole in the back wall", proper old dive bar types, that has regulars and can survive most of the day with just 1 person behind the bar.

Seeing since you've worked closely with folk in this sector, it would be interesting to learn what 3 things you would consider important for a new bar to succeed in 2020's.

 

[Mark T Jones]

There will always be "hole in the back wall", proper old dive bar types, that has regulars and can survive most of the day with just 1 person behind the bar.

Seeing since you've worked closely with folk in this sector, it would be interesting to learn what 3 things you would consider important for a new bar to succeed in 2020's.

1. Know who your customer is

2 know what will get them to spend

3. Know what will hring them back.

There will still be some trial and error, but that's the best starting point j can suggest

 

[bodgitt&scarperLTD]

A huge part of it is unrealistic rent charged by pubco's, but this is underpinned by no shortage of starry eyed young couples wanting to 'give it a go', usually with no clue about what to do. After a couple of years and their life sevings invested in yet another redecoration, the stress breaks the relationship (sometimes with added entertainment such as the landlady deciding she is actually lesbian, kicking hubby out and shacking up with the chef- true local story). This would usually be the end of it, and in a sane society the pubco would re-let it for a realistic rent. What happens instead, however, is that the next up-and-coming young couple actually pay money for the right to sign a personal guarantee to pay the brewery rent come hell or high water! (the lease).

And so the cycle continues.

 

[Talay]

Went to a pub near me the other week.

Pint of supposedly quality lager, flat, crap, not totally cold and neither was the replacement. About £6.

Bottle of red wine, cost £25+, worth £5 or less. Utter crap and not a patch on stuff we buy privately for under a tenner.

But the real kicker was that at 10pm then came into the garden and said they were closing because they were not busy enough.

So with £150 in bills for food and drinks and another £100 or so invested in getting someone to cover someone at work, we won't be back.

The day after, drinking Erdinger weissbeer and other summer German beers for around £1.30 each in the garden, food for many at way less than £10 a head and top wine on tap for say £10 a bottle.

I know it is at home and not the pub but clean toilets, really cold beer, wine that is drinkable and late night closing when we choose, it is hard to make a case for the pub and I'm sorry about that.

 

[Onthebrightside]

Friends of mine were in pub management and Green King started revamping/upgrading their pubs. But Green Kings demographics weren't great. For instance, the pub was close (but not on) Kensington High Street, so they decided they needed a posh menu, bright lights, no stools at the bar policy and aimed the interior decor and menu at the 'high end' of the market.

The truth was the pub entrance was in a side street in Fulham, it was more a low lighting 'one and and his dog' pub with a council estate opposite and a live music venue above. So stools at the bar and a 'homely' atmosphere went well with a fried food basket and jukebox atmosphere.

It was doing well before they ripped out it's soul, so to speak, all they really needed to do was invest in its marketing a little. But after they revamped it, most of the regulars went to a pub up the road and it struggled after that.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

Is it simply that we are more socially interactive these days in other ways? Physical face to face engagement having been replaced by social media and forums like this one? Drinking in venues where we don't know most of the people, replaced by family barbecues and random get togethers?

 

[pcproblems]

I know this will be an unpopular view with many people but, I stopped going into pubs of an evening when they brought in the smoking ban.. The only time I go in now is on a market day, we do some shopping and meet in a local Wetherspoon at around 10.30am. Whatever you may think about 'Spoons', they do seem to get it right and it's like a social club for the over 50s during the day

 

[Mark T Jones]

I know this will be an unpopular view with many people but, I stopped going into pubs of an evening when they brought in the smoking ban.. The only time I go in now is on a market day, we do some shopping and meet in a local Wetherspoon at around 10.30am. Whatever you may think about 'Spoons', they do seem to get it right and it's like a social club for the over 50s during the day

Wetherspoons are pretty much permanent fixtures on my list of companies I'd happily invest in but never visit (other fixtures are Greggs and Whitbread)

Tim Martin is an extremely clever man who has an intense, microscopic insight into:

1. His target customer (hence he couldn't care less if I invest but don't visit)
2. End-to-end processes.

People assume the business model is about cheap beer - there really is far more to it than that.

 

[HouseReno]

this is sad to hear that some pubs are struggling , but with the price of everything going up people have less money to spend unfortunately

 

[SMEMartyn]

Good afternoon Julia

I am a former Licensee and now run a training company that teaches those going into the industry amongst other things. I speak with Licensees all the time and may know a few people if you still need someone.

 

[Deleted member 348872]

I wouldn't run a pub unless 100% no ties and even then i'd think twice. Mate of mine runs one and spends most his days driving round buying spirits on offer from supermarkets. My local when i was growing up and pubs were doing well i used to see the landlord emptying no brand drinks into brand bottles. Anyone who had had a few he had select bottles where he would pour your smirnoff vodka from but you were actually getting the cheapest drink possible. Even saw him pouring cheap lemonade into Schweppes bottle once.

Prob 70%+ of my boyhood pubs have been turned into flats or mosques.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

We had a swanky restaurant open nearby selling very pricey afternoon 'home baked' Cream Teas. They'd maybe have lasted a little longer had they taken care to dispose of the Tesco Value Scones packaging.?