Taking Etsy to small claims court - Advice needed

[Mount27]

Hi
I need some help, I'm a small business owner in the UK and advertise my products on ETSY. I recently changed my business bank account which I then updated on ETSY for any sale payment withdrawls.
I made a my first withdrawl on 6th of June which still hasn't come to my account. Etsy has very poor customer service. They asked me to wait 20 days before they will look into it. Then it changed to 20 working days. Later it changed to 90 days and now they are saying they can't do anything!!!
I can't afford to run a business unless I have payments. Withdrawn amount is worth over £1000.
I have seen a registered address for ETSY UK kn company house. Can I use this address to send small claims court letter and potentially take them to small claims court if no one responds to the letter?
Etsy is an American company, but they have a registered office in UK and Ireland Dublin.

Thanks

Edit: new account details are correct. I've checked with my bank and they have not rejected any payments either
This is not a new account so Etsy is not holding any payments. Etsy is saying they have sent the payment and now it's between myself and the bank.
Bank is saying they haven't received anything. Etsy won't provide my any proof of deposit either.

 

[WaveJumper]

What was the reason for saying they could not do anything

 

[fisicx]

@Mount27 - have you spoken to your old bank to see if they have received any money? You may well discover that changing your business bank in your profile didn’t update the main servers (it can take weeks for this to happen).

I agree about poor Etsy support, they aren’t really interested in you, they make all their money from the Chinese mass production factories.

 

[Mount27]

Reason they say they cant help me is that they have sent it and I need to speak with my bank. I checked with my bank and they haven't rejected or received any payments.
Etsy won't provide any reference for the payment either so bank can't trace it.
I checked my old account as its still open and nothing has come through to my old account either

 

[Mount27]

I'm hoping UK address will be sufficient

This is what it says on company house for etsy

Intertrust (uk) limited
1 Bartholomew Lane, London, United Kingdom, EC2N 2AX

 

[Michael Loveridge]

I'm hoping UK address will be sufficient

This is what it says on company house for etsy

Intertrust (uk) limited
1 Bartholomew Lane, London, United Kingdom, EC2N 2AX

I've had a look at the Etsy t's and c's regarding payment, which can be found here -

Etsy Payments Policy - Our House Rules | Etsy

Find the perfect handmade gift, vintage & on-trend clothes, unique jewellery, and more… lots more.

www.etsy.com

As you'll see, they state (my emphasis):

1. Accepting These Terms​

The Etsy Payments Policy (or the “Policy”) sets out your rights and responsibilities when you use Etsy Payments on Etsy’s services ... so please read it carefully. By using Etsy Payments, you’re agreeing to the Policy.

The Policy is a legally binding contract between you and Etsy. If you live in North America or South America, the contract is between you and Etsy, Inc.; if you live elsewhere, the contract is between you and Etsy Ireland UC, a subsidiary of Etsy, Inc

It therefore looks to me as if your claim would have to be made against Etsy Ireland UC, and not the English company, Etsy UK Ltd. If so, then making a claim against Etsy UK Ltd would almost certainly be a waste of time and money, as the claim would be dismissed on the simple ground that they are not a party to your contract with Etsy.

 

[Mount27]

Etsy Ireland is in Dublin which means I can't take them to small claims court. Am I correct in thinking this? UK is no longer part of Europe

 

[IanSuth]

I'm hoping UK address will be sufficient

This is what it says on company house for etsy

Intertrust (uk) limited
1 Bartholomew Lane, London, United Kingdom, EC2N 2AX

I found Etsy UK Ltd, reg# 07540118 same physical address, Intertrust is listed as the Company Secretary, £10m in the bank and £17n net assets as of last accounts for that company number so think it is the right one

They have had a CCJ against them before, if you can get the details of that maybe you can see if it is the right way to go for your purposes

18/12/2020

COUNTY COURT BUSINESS CENTRE

£1,078

Satisfied

G1AT0C0Q

16/04/2021

Parents
Etsy Ireland Unlimited Company (Direct Parent)
ETSY, INC. (Ultimate Parent)

 

[Mount27]

Hi,
Would Trustonline website show what the ccj was for? It's £6 for a report...

Thanks

 

[Mount27]

I've also checked the gov website. It says that you can no longer make a European payment order or use the European small claims procedure to recover money you're owed by someone in an eu country

My only option is to take Etsy UK to court I guess..

 

[Gyumri]

From memory suing Google in Dublin is also awkward. You can however issue a small claim online directly with the High Court in Dublin. I think you should write a letter before action first and post it giving them 7 days to respond to your email address.

This is the link to making a claim online:

Not found

 

[Mount27]

Does it not matter that I live in UK? Can I still go through Dublin court?

Thanks

 

[Gyumri]

If Etsy is based in Dublin and they've taken your money then you sue them where they are based. There are certain conditions that would need to be met to sue somebody out of the jurisdiction of the English courts but I don't think that applies here because your contract is with Etsy in Dublin.

PRACTICE DIRECTION 6B – SERVICE OUT OF THE JURISDICTION – Civil Procedure Rules – Justice UK

www.justice.gov.uk

 

[Mount27]

Great, thank you all for you help. New to all this as I've never really had to take anyone to court in the past. I will get a letter sent to Etsy Dublin today

 

[Gyumri]

If you have difficulty you might be able to find a cheap local Dublin solicitor - a one man band practice - who could ensure that your claim is submitted properly with the appropriate witness statement and proof of payment emails etc.

 

[studioJK]

Hi @Mount27

We are sorry to hear about your circumstances.

One point to note first is that, at this stage, going to either the English courts or the Irish courts is unlikely to help your case.

Your agreement with Etsy is governed by New York law, and the default dispute resolution mechanism is via arbitration in the US. This means that the courts are unlikely to be an appropriate dispute resolutions mechanism.

However, since you are based in the UK, your first consideration should be the complaint mechanism for EU sellers, mandated under the Platform-to-business Regulation, which is retained in the UK law. Filing an official complaint under this channel may be able to help you.

On this page, Etsy has noted that:

From July to December 2020, Etsy received 5,379 complaints through its European Union P2B support channel. Based on the member reports, 3,017 were identified as technology issues, 1,434 as account issues, and 928 as P2B complaints. Around 5% of the complaints were reversed and we processed the complaints within 7 days on average.

Good luck! If you need any help, our risk management solutions may be able to assist.

 

[zefeena]

As per fisicx comment, have you still got your old bank account? There can be some delay when changing details, so it may have been deposited there.
I do not know how complex it is to take a foreign company to court, but quite honestly I think it’s a waste of time. Even if you win, the likely hood of getting your money without incurring lots more expense makes it pointless.
The court system is flawed that way. They already have a CCJ which means someone won and Etsy didn’t pay up. If they had paid up, the CCJ would not show.
Fingers crossed it’s in your old bank account.

 

[Newchodge]

As per fisicx comment, have you still got your old bank account? There can be some delay when changing details, so it may have been deposited there.
I do not know how complex it is to take a foreign company to court, but quite honestly I think it’s a waste of time. Even if you win, the likely hood of getting your money without incurring lots more expense makes it pointless.
The court system is flawed that way. They already have a CCJ which means someone won and Etsy didn’t pay up. If they had paid up, the CCJ would not show.
Fingers crossed it’s in your old bank account.

A CCJ shows for 6 years, even if it is settled. It only vanishes if you pay within a month of the CCJ being issued

 

[Michael Loveridge]

They already have a CCJ which means someone won and Etsy didn’t pay up. If they had paid up, the CCJ would not show.

No, this is a misunderstanding. They have paid up, as the CCJ is marked as `satisfied'. It just means that they didn't pay within 30 days of the CCJ being entered, so it was registered as being unpaid.

 

[keystone0000]

Hi
I need some help, I'm a small business owner in the UK and advertise my products on ETSY. I recently changed my business bank account which I then updated on ETSY for any sale payment withdrawls.
I made a my first withdrawl on 6th of June which still hasn't come to my account. Etsy has very poor customer service. They asked me to wait 20 days before they will look into it. Then it changed to 20 working days. Later it changed to 90 days and now they are saying they can't do anything!!!
I can't afford to run a business unless I have payments. Withdrawn amount is worth over £1000.
I have seen a registered address for ETSY UK kn company house. Can I use this address to send small claims court letter and potentially take them to small claims court if no one responds to the letter?
Etsy is an American company, but they have a registered office in UK and Ireland Dublin.

Thanks

Edit: new account details are correct. I've checked with my bank and they have not rejected any payments either
This is not a new account so Etsy is not holding any payments. Etsy is saying they have sent the payment and now it's between myself and the bank.
Bank is saying they haven't received anything. Etsy won't provide my any proof of deposit either.

You got a similar problem to me this is what I sent to Etsy's legal team as i have no joy with customer support I'm in the UK too.

I write to you with the thought you can help with my situation.

I have been selling on Etsy since 2014 without any problems at all . I have 350 five-star

4 weeks ago I notest that a large number of funds went missing from my Etsy account and I haven't been able to find any of the funds within my bank accounts. I had a call back from the Etsy support team that was very helpful as I asked them to put a hold on any funds leaving the account as I was unable to change my bank account number on Etsy to the correct one that I have been using for 8 years on Etsy. until my accounts were in order again. which they did.
after a few days, Etsy decided to temporarily limit my access to protect information until I reach out to them.

i have tried to email Etsy support many times over the 4 weeks with very little reply or a resolution from the customer support team. i am unable to access my Etsy shop at all so i don't know what limited access means as I'm totally locked out with little to no help to get the account fixed and up and running again.

8 years ago i changed my career so i can work on Etsy full time as my Etsy shop was doing really well, and i prioritized my customer care with fast response time to their inquiries. that will show in my reviews.

For my shop to be closed on the spot without any fault of my own has really financially put me in a hole that is getting deeper by the week it's closed .as well as I have 15 expensive furniture orders that were being made by me for delivery.this is leading customers trying to reach out to me unknowingly that i am unable to reply to there delay concerns.
i really enjoy working on Etsy and hope this message will find it way to a resolution as all my hard work in the past 8 years will not be lost for a season that could be easily resolved.
thanks for reading my problem and hope you can help me in some way.

 

[Scalloway]

The OP has not been seen since late July. You stand a better chance of getting a reply if you start a new thread,