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OPC-Oxford
- Original Poster
- #2
Hi Gemd89
As a printer I have experience in printing both high quality magazines for retail purposes as well as a budget magazines and thus I would be able to assist you with prices, advice and guidance on this aspect, far more than what I can write here so please contact me direct on 07525458779
The Online Print Company
As a printer I have experience in printing both high quality magazines for retail purposes as well as a budget magazines and thus I would be able to assist you with prices, advice and guidance on this aspect, far more than what I can write here so please contact me direct on 07525458779
The Online Print Company
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Other areas to think about ......
Market Research - is there a niche and how will you compete against the major players who already have an establish market share
Research to see whether the demographic you want to appeal to would be interested in your magazine.
What experience/expertise can you bring to the table?
Design
Photography
Marketing and advertising budget
Online? Print?
Market Research - is there a niche and how will you compete against the major players who already have an establish market share
Research to see whether the demographic you want to appeal to would be interested in your magazine.
What experience/expertise can you bring to the table?
Design
Photography
Marketing and advertising budget
Online? Print?
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Don't do it! Not without seriously researching advertiser potential first. Print advertising has been on a downward spiral for a long time.
That said the big fashion houses still seem to be advertising.
Do you have the contacts in the main fashion houses? If not are you prepared to pay £100k to get someone who does have the contacts?
That said the big fashion houses still seem to be advertising.
Do you have the contacts in the main fashion houses? If not are you prepared to pay £100k to get someone who does have the contacts?
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That's my point. You should look at who your potential Advertisers are, how you are going to get into them, what sort of Rate card to charge etc.
BEFORE you even start to worry about any of that!
First step: Get mock up copy written, designed and printed
Step 2: Take Mock up to potential advertisers
Step 3: Based on feedback from advertisers you will get an idea of yield
Only then can you budget for printing / distribution
BEFORE you even start to worry about any of that!
First step: Get mock up copy written, designed and printed
Step 2: Take Mock up to potential advertisers
Step 3: Based on feedback from advertisers you will get an idea of yield
Only then can you budget for printing / distribution
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OPC-Oxford
- Original Poster
- #9
I think she needs to send me an idea of what she is looking to produce so I can help with a ball pack figure for printing a circulation amount of say 1000, 10000 or 50,000 etc.
This might just make it a no go project. If she feels this is achievable, then yes do a demo / sample copy which again I can help with.
Then go out to advertisers.
Why do all the market research and then realise she can't afford to print it with the rates she has set.
"Start with the end in mind"
Whats the costs? HoW do I pay for it, isn't that the normal process.
THE ONLINE PRINT COMPANY
This might just make it a no go project. If she feels this is achievable, then yes do a demo / sample copy which again I can help with.
Then go out to advertisers.
Why do all the market research and then realise she can't afford to print it with the rates she has set.
"Start with the end in mind"
Whats the costs? HoW do I pay for it, isn't that the normal process.
THE ONLINE PRINT COMPANY
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You'll be up against some pretty stiff and well estabished competition but there is money to be made in this field still, if you pitch it right.
In my former life I was a (mainly newspaper) journalist specialising in family features and opinion, but have reasonable knowledge of fashion and lifestyle on magazines.
Advertising will be your biggest hurdle as circulation is what matters to advertisers so you are already in a catch 22 before you even start (no circulation figures means no advertising sales pitch to offer which means you won't be able to produce a reasonable enough print run in order to get a reasonable circulation).
That said, if you can get yourself in with a couple of small independent designers looking to raise their profile, photographers looking for a break, writers looking to boost their portfolio etc. you may be able to put together a couple of issues for little more than the cost of the printing and a least you'll have something tangible to get the interest of advertisers. Good luck - but be careful!
In my former life I was a (mainly newspaper) journalist specialising in family features and opinion, but have reasonable knowledge of fashion and lifestyle on magazines.
Advertising will be your biggest hurdle as circulation is what matters to advertisers so you are already in a catch 22 before you even start (no circulation figures means no advertising sales pitch to offer which means you won't be able to produce a reasonable enough print run in order to get a reasonable circulation).
That said, if you can get yourself in with a couple of small independent designers looking to raise their profile, photographers looking for a break, writers looking to boost their portfolio etc. you may be able to put together a couple of issues for little more than the cost of the printing and a least you'll have something tangible to get the interest of advertisers. Good luck - but be careful!
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Hi OPC
But print is only a part of the cost of producing a magazine - you also have design, photography, writing, editing, promotions, publishing, marketing, advertising etc
So in order to know whether a publication is viable (and I have produced and edited quite a few) you need to know
Then as suggested a mock up needs to be tested with advertisers and the target audience.
But print is only a part of the cost of producing a magazine - you also have design, photography, writing, editing, promotions, publishing, marketing, advertising etc
So in order to know whether a publication is viable (and I have produced and edited quite a few) you need to know
- Is there a market for the publication (on and offline)
- What would be all the costs of producing and marketing it
- Are there enough potential advertisers and would they be interested in advertising at a cost that makes the publication viable (market test mock up and discussions)
- Does the OP have enough income to cover costs (ideally for a year or more) while she generates income through cover price/advertising
Then as suggested a mock up needs to be tested with advertisers and the target audience.
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OPC-Oxford
- Original Poster
- #13
I agree that print is only 1 aspect of the costs but like I said if this cost is too much then it's a no go even it she has the artistic, editorial and photographic input and support.
Also because this support hasn't been offered in the forum this is as good a starting point as any without incurring costs on market research etc etc etc.
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I really can't believe that there is a single time served entrepreneur in this forum that would even get into printing costs and the like on this no-brainer.
FACT if you were the Editor/Publisher of a major magazine group like Emap and had a million quid in the bank to launch any type of magazine. It would fail. The reason is it's simply not enough money.
As Ethical PR pointed out you would need a production team of about 10. At an average of £50K each including benefits thats' £500,000 gone. Publicity and PR would swallow up the rest and then of course there is getting advertisers. They would want certified distribution figures. Space is already at a premium in Newsagents so while they can order SOR they only choose the best sellers.
The bottom line is launching a glossy magazine in in any market requires millions in todays market it is simply not viable and why you are even thinking about it is beyond me.
You spent all over Christmas Gemma re-vamping your web site and it is nowhere near finished yet and there you go off on a road to nowhere again.
My advice then is concentrate on your core product range first and I have to say that is going to take some doing. Everything from whats new to the entire womans section looks so dowdy. In fact - and I really I am sorry to say it Gemma but my local PDSA charirty shop would not even bother displaying most of what's on offer it would go straight in the tip.
First thing you need to do then is get your head around a decent graphics programe but the good news is that you can forget the expenses or learning curve that come with photoshop.
Go for Photofiltre instead. It's great and easy to use. There are loads of filters and of course it is free.
And finally Gemma. Please remember one thing. If I sound harsh and you take it on board don't take it to heart. Every word will be worth a £1,000 in the bank when you get it right.
Robert
http://photofiltre.en.softonic.com/
FACT if you were the Editor/Publisher of a major magazine group like Emap and had a million quid in the bank to launch any type of magazine. It would fail. The reason is it's simply not enough money.
As Ethical PR pointed out you would need a production team of about 10. At an average of £50K each including benefits thats' £500,000 gone. Publicity and PR would swallow up the rest and then of course there is getting advertisers. They would want certified distribution figures. Space is already at a premium in Newsagents so while they can order SOR they only choose the best sellers.
The bottom line is launching a glossy magazine in in any market requires millions in todays market it is simply not viable and why you are even thinking about it is beyond me.
You spent all over Christmas Gemma re-vamping your web site and it is nowhere near finished yet and there you go off on a road to nowhere again.
My advice then is concentrate on your core product range first and I have to say that is going to take some doing. Everything from whats new to the entire womans section looks so dowdy. In fact - and I really I am sorry to say it Gemma but my local PDSA charirty shop would not even bother displaying most of what's on offer it would go straight in the tip.
First thing you need to do then is get your head around a decent graphics programe but the good news is that you can forget the expenses or learning curve that come with photoshop.
Go for Photofiltre instead. It's great and easy to use. There are loads of filters and of course it is free.
And finally Gemma. Please remember one thing. If I sound harsh and you take it on board don't take it to heart. Every word will be worth a £1,000 in the bank when you get it right.
Robert
http://photofiltre.en.softonic.com/
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As suggested issuu will do it for you but that's the easy part.
Who is going to write the articles, take the pictures, do the interviews, create the puzzles, format the pages, edit the content, get the advertisers, promote and market. If you are on your own it will take you every waking hour putting together the magazine. If you get help then how are your going to pay the wages?
In any case as has been suggested, the market is just about saturated so the chances of getting the target audience to go inline and read your magazine is almost nil.
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Hi Gemma
I had this idea last year and was hellbent on producing a free woman's lifestyle magazine for Scotland. Once I had carried out the necessary research I realised that I would not even break even if all the advertisers paid the rate card fee for the ad space. Added to this massive hurdle was the fact that I would have to go out and pound the streets to get such advertisers on board in a recession. It was a no goer and so I went for an on line version, you can see it here.
I may be alone here but I do not enjoy reading a magazine on line with pages that you have to turn. You might be better off producing a website with all the articles etc that you would have wanted to print. You can see that this is what my website is based on. I also have a forum so that much of the content is user generated (therein lies a whole different ball game of trying to encourage users to register and post comments, but that is another issue). You can also see from the sponsors page and elsewhere on the site that I have advertising revenue which I have to say was easier to come by than trying to persuade local businesses to part with their much needed cash in this economic climate and did not necessitate a hard sell of ad space in a print mag (this is a skill in itself and not for the faint hearted).
If you are still interested in the page turning format of an online mag you might want to search for a user on this forum called WhereisHarry as he has produced a very good one and I am sure he would help you out by pointing you in the right direction.
I had this idea last year and was hellbent on producing a free woman's lifestyle magazine for Scotland. Once I had carried out the necessary research I realised that I would not even break even if all the advertisers paid the rate card fee for the ad space. Added to this massive hurdle was the fact that I would have to go out and pound the streets to get such advertisers on board in a recession. It was a no goer and so I went for an on line version, you can see it here.
I may be alone here but I do not enjoy reading a magazine on line with pages that you have to turn. You might be better off producing a website with all the articles etc that you would have wanted to print. You can see that this is what my website is based on. I also have a forum so that much of the content is user generated (therein lies a whole different ball game of trying to encourage users to register and post comments, but that is another issue). You can also see from the sponsors page and elsewhere on the site that I have advertising revenue which I have to say was easier to come by than trying to persuade local businesses to part with their much needed cash in this economic climate and did not necessitate a hard sell of ad space in a print mag (this is a skill in itself and not for the faint hearted).
If you are still interested in the page turning format of an online mag you might want to search for a user on this forum called WhereisHarry as he has produced a very good one and I am sure he would help you out by pointing you in the right direction.
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L
Lee Jones Jnr
- Original Poster
- #21
Printing costs can be reduced massively if you are willing to forego the glossy format and use full colour 'sunday supplement' type format. The type of thing that comes free in the Sunday papers.
I was involved with a magazine and we used this format, 10'000 copies, 48 pages £1800.
I was involved with a magazine and we used this format, 10'000 copies, 48 pages £1800.
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L
Lee Jones Jnr
- Original Poster
- #23
There are plenty of opportunities for the right print publication. Don't let people put you off if you think you can make a go of it, just be sure that you have done your research before you make the decision.
It seems that a LOT of people on here are only interested in online this and online that, but the 'real world' can still support new businesses and I would imagine that an online magazine is harder to sell advertising in than a physical copy. If you have any kind of personality you can walk around a town centre and pick up a dozen or more advertisers in a day. If you are starting small and flexible there are certainly still gaps in the market.
It seems that a LOT of people on here are only interested in online this and online that, but the 'real world' can still support new businesses and I would imagine that an online magazine is harder to sell advertising in than a physical copy. If you have any kind of personality you can walk around a town centre and pick up a dozen or more advertisers in a day. If you are starting small and flexible there are certainly still gaps in the market.
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Having been producing editor of a very niche music magazine (actually it was more of a very well-produced and printed fanzine, but I always hated that word!) in the late '90s, I can testify as to how much work it involves if you can't afford to pay a team of professionals to help you produce it. We started off by publishing quarterly, but as a single mum with a full-time job it was really difficult to meet my own deadlines, and after about 9 issues I couldn't keep up with it any more (not if I wanted a real life, anyway) and had to put it to bed.
Our advertising rates were dirt cheap and the magazine was extremely niche (and very popular with readers and musicians/record companies etc within that niche, and well-publicised by other media in that niche), but as I didn't have time to ring people up and hassle them to advertise, we were lucky if we got one advertiser per issue. I had friends who were supposed to be part of it all, but they did just a fraction of the work and enjoyed ALL the benefits like free CDs, free gig tickets, aftershow party passes etc - the vast majority of the work fell to me and it was HARD WORK.
If you can't afford to pay journalists to write your content for you, you need to be sure that your writing skills are decent enough that you can produce informative, well-written articles that people will want to read, otherwise nobody's going to buy your magazine.
If I were going to run a magazine again, I wouldn't even consider print, to be honest. Online makes much more sense, you can target your readers easily with banner advertising and PPC, get people to subscribe in order to be able to "access all areas" so to speak, and use that subscriber data (eventually) to sell advertising space. While you're still building up your visitor numbers, you can add advertising very easily by joining a few affiliate networks, Google AdSense, and brands' own affiliate schemes (for example Amazon - but there are others out there who manage their own affiliate schemes and don't use networks/agencies).
Even if you do go for online, it's not going to be an easy ride. If you're looking at the women's lifestyle format, you'll be up against all the online versions of the glossies, as well as online-only publications like Handbag, iVillage, sofeminine etc. There is a LOT of competition out there.
Like others have said, unless you can find a niche, you'll really struggle to get a magazine (online or offline) off the ground. Be prepared for lots of work and lots of expense, and a long wait for your circulation to pick up. It's not impossible, but it really isn't as easy and glamorous as you might think!
Good luck
Our advertising rates were dirt cheap and the magazine was extremely niche (and very popular with readers and musicians/record companies etc within that niche, and well-publicised by other media in that niche), but as I didn't have time to ring people up and hassle them to advertise, we were lucky if we got one advertiser per issue. I had friends who were supposed to be part of it all, but they did just a fraction of the work and enjoyed ALL the benefits like free CDs, free gig tickets, aftershow party passes etc - the vast majority of the work fell to me and it was HARD WORK.
If you can't afford to pay journalists to write your content for you, you need to be sure that your writing skills are decent enough that you can produce informative, well-written articles that people will want to read, otherwise nobody's going to buy your magazine.
If I were going to run a magazine again, I wouldn't even consider print, to be honest. Online makes much more sense, you can target your readers easily with banner advertising and PPC, get people to subscribe in order to be able to "access all areas" so to speak, and use that subscriber data (eventually) to sell advertising space. While you're still building up your visitor numbers, you can add advertising very easily by joining a few affiliate networks, Google AdSense, and brands' own affiliate schemes (for example Amazon - but there are others out there who manage their own affiliate schemes and don't use networks/agencies).
Even if you do go for online, it's not going to be an easy ride. If you're looking at the women's lifestyle format, you'll be up against all the online versions of the glossies, as well as online-only publications like Handbag, iVillage, sofeminine etc. There is a LOT of competition out there.
Like others have said, unless you can find a niche, you'll really struggle to get a magazine (online or offline) off the ground. Be prepared for lots of work and lots of expense, and a long wait for your circulation to pick up. It's not impossible, but it really isn't as easy and glamorous as you might think!
Good luck
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One other point - don't forget to add into your costs (whether the mag will be off or on line) your marketing budget. Your advertisers will want to know what you are doing to plug the mag that they have paid to be in/on.
From my own experience I have found that promoting an on line women's magazine really only yields results from on line promotional activities. You may find that social networking is the key to a business such as this. In the early days I paid out stupid sums to run a long sponsorship of a magazine page. This proved me with zero results following my own research. This year I am focusing primarily on promoting my site on line and through mother and baby events.
On another note - I started off writing all of the articles myself which almost killed me. I then realised that there are people out there who will write you an article for free if they can include a link back to their site. They may also be able to offer your users a discount too. You might want to think of adding in a blog that will feature as frequently as your publication is produced and that may attract returning visitors to your website.
One final tip would be that if you decide to go down the on line magazine route make sure that you get yourself a website that you can easily update yourself and can administer yourself. I cannot tell you how frustrating it can be if you are reliant on someone else for minor/major amendments. I think it is probably cheaper in the long run to be in control yourself.
From my own experience I have found that promoting an on line women's magazine really only yields results from on line promotional activities. You may find that social networking is the key to a business such as this. In the early days I paid out stupid sums to run a long sponsorship of a magazine page. This proved me with zero results following my own research. This year I am focusing primarily on promoting my site on line and through mother and baby events.
On another note - I started off writing all of the articles myself which almost killed me. I then realised that there are people out there who will write you an article for free if they can include a link back to their site. They may also be able to offer your users a discount too. You might want to think of adding in a blog that will feature as frequently as your publication is produced and that may attract returning visitors to your website.
One final tip would be that if you decide to go down the on line magazine route make sure that you get yourself a website that you can easily update yourself and can administer yourself. I cannot tell you how frustrating it can be if you are reliant on someone else for minor/major amendments. I think it is probably cheaper in the long run to be in control yourself.
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B
Be Known PR
- Original Poster
- #29
You need to ask yourself why big publishing houses have spent the past 5 years closing magazines down.
I would also suggest that the first thing you need to research is distribution. It is all very well, having an idea, a mock up, a list of potential advertisers, articles and writers on boards etc etc, but if you haven't sorted out a distribution network then it will all have been a waste of your time.
A few months ago I was liaising with a publisher who was about to launch a new glossy celeb/lifestyle magazine. Two days before their big and expensive VIP launch party they had to pull the plug because they had failed to be able to negotiate significant enough distribution and therefore were not able to sell enough copies to attract advertisers. At the time they were saying the launch was just being postponed....I am yet to hear from them again!
I would also suggest that the first thing you need to research is distribution. It is all very well, having an idea, a mock up, a list of potential advertisers, articles and writers on boards etc etc, but if you haven't sorted out a distribution network then it will all have been a waste of your time.
A few months ago I was liaising with a publisher who was about to launch a new glossy celeb/lifestyle magazine. Two days before their big and expensive VIP launch party they had to pull the plug because they had failed to be able to negotiate significant enough distribution and therefore were not able to sell enough copies to attract advertisers. At the time they were saying the launch was just being postponed....I am yet to hear from them again!
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YUDU.com. The basic version is free. Simply upload PDF or Word and Publish in their ELibrary. There is also a one click option to embed on your web site or blog. great features anyway for free. For an extra £100 quid a year you can add video.
Robert.
*** Can't wait to see what idea you come up with next.
Robert.
*** Can't wait to see what idea you come up with next.
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I
iArtist
- Original Poster
- #34
Gemma there are already hundreds (thousands) of online women's mag style sites, how do you plan to compete, what do you offer that is different?
I manage a site that discusses relationships and so on and recruiting writers and readers is not an easy matter by any stretch.
Meanwhile re the online book, click to turn a page etc.
There is inexpensive software you can use to create book style eBooks. I created one mysef ages ago. The eBook presented like a real book and you could turn the pages etc.
The question is why do this? On the Internet the most important thing is ease of use. If a site is not user friendly the user won't stick around and I am not sure that your idea is the most user friendly despite being aesthetic.
Some of the worst offenders for hard to use sites are top brands. They go for design over usability and I can never navigate their sites, they are so bad.
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QUOTE. There is inexpensive software you can use to create book style eBooks. I created one mysef ages ago. The eBook presented like a real book and you could turn the pages etc.
The question is why do this? On the Internet the most important thing is ease of use. If a site is not user friendly the user won't stick around and I am not sure that your idea is the most user friendly despite being aesthetic."
I did the same thing in order to overcome the navigation problems that you mentioned. With the 3D pageflip there is no navigation at all although my own version resembled a monthly glossy magazine in that there was an index on the IFC. Overwise it was the most user friendley experience you could imagine. Just click on the corner of the page and browse just as a woman would do at the hairdressers. Better in fact . You ladies could dry your nail varnish and eat a sticky bun without getting dirty finger marks all over the mag and last but not least. You could email your copy to friends not having to worry about getting it back.
Robert
The question is why do this? On the Internet the most important thing is ease of use. If a site is not user friendly the user won't stick around and I am not sure that your idea is the most user friendly despite being aesthetic."
I did the same thing in order to overcome the navigation problems that you mentioned. With the 3D pageflip there is no navigation at all although my own version resembled a monthly glossy magazine in that there was an index on the IFC. Overwise it was the most user friendley experience you could imagine. Just click on the corner of the page and browse just as a woman would do at the hairdressers. Better in fact . You ladies could dry your nail varnish and eat a sticky bun without getting dirty finger marks all over the mag and last but not least. You could email your copy to friends not having to worry about getting it back.
Robert
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How patronising.
I did some research before starting my on line magazine for women and found that the e-magazine whereby the user had to flick the page was not very popular among women. My research demonstrated that women still enjoy buying a print copy of a magazine which they can take anywhere and wither keep/bin, or they like to read articles on line. The articles that they enjoyed reading on line had to be user friendly and easy to read. Some women found the e-magazines difficult to read. Why don't you carry out your own research into what women actually want so that you don't waste time and money doing something else?
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My take on this is that Internet is already in one tried and tested mode don't try and fix something that every one is accustomed to using and is not broken.
if you have a article based site leave as a normal website. If this turning page flash thing was actually better to users why don't you see all the big papers doing it.
i just went on that issuu.com site and had look at one of the magazines on there. Pointless! The thing is static like a real magazine and was very hard to read. You want to leverage the power of the Internet and make your magazine a living, breathing and changing beast which allows your readership to participate and interact with you and each other in real time. this is the way communication is going now and a magazine is at the end of the day a form of communication between a community of people.
Along with readability and interactivity issues you will have SEO issues and advertising issues. None of your magazine pages will be indexed on google / yahoo and you wont be able to have up to date targeted advertising around your content from ad networks like google AdWords and double click, giving your readers relevant offers up to the second to click on.
if you have a article based site leave as a normal website. If this turning page flash thing was actually better to users why don't you see all the big papers doing it.
i just went on that issuu.com site and had look at one of the magazines on there. Pointless! The thing is static like a real magazine and was very hard to read. You want to leverage the power of the Internet and make your magazine a living, breathing and changing beast which allows your readership to participate and interact with you and each other in real time. this is the way communication is going now and a magazine is at the end of the day a form of communication between a community of people.
Along with readability and interactivity issues you will have SEO issues and advertising issues. None of your magazine pages will be indexed on google / yahoo and you wont be able to have up to date targeted advertising around your content from ad networks like google AdWords and double click, giving your readers relevant offers up to the second to click on.
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Quote by Scotmum.
"How patronising."
Methinks SCOTSMUM that as a parent dear woman you ought to invest a few shillings in developing a sense of humour which you seem to be sadly lacking at the moment.Nevertheless I'll leave you will this observation gained after coming across a dating agency web site.
Under the profiles section there was a box to list hobbies and pastimes and as a matter of interest I clicked on a few of the lasies profiles across a wide range on age groups. There were all similar and went something like the following. Oh I should say tha most also stated that they worked full time and many had at least 2 children. Our typical woman's profile then.
PASTIMES & HOBBIES
Going to the Gym 3 times a week. Music Concerts & Festivals. Hill walking. Rock Climbing. Hang Gliding. Horse Riding. Reading. Writing Peotry. Old Movies. More Gym and Keep Fit Classes. Holidays abroad & Travel. Entertaining. Dancing.
Quite impressive isn't it. Remember. This is not an overall list of hobbies but what virtually every woman stated her own personal interests as being.
Well beam me up to another planet Scottie because I have spent 40 years believing all that garbage that most of a woman's time is taken up by looking after the kids & housework and how they never had a minute to spare. Not one single minute.
It's not just that but do you notice that there no mention of doing a little bit of knitting there or making patchwork quilts out of all those new dresses that were a must have in a sale a year before and never worn.
Oh no. The gals today are into dangerous sports like Wing Walking & Mounterneering - and they can still read a Mills & Boon novel while climbing the North side of the Eiger. As for Bingo on a Friday night and going on to visit the ailing Auntie Mabel. They are all off to Dublin for the weekend to go to a Van Morrison concert.
Patronising Scotsmum. Noo Noo Noo Lass. You just need to loosen the elastic a bit here and there and then your laugh your head off.
Robert
Sorry to go off thread guys.
"How patronising."
Methinks SCOTSMUM that as a parent dear woman you ought to invest a few shillings in developing a sense of humour which you seem to be sadly lacking at the moment.
Nevertheless I'll leave you will this observation gained after coming across a dating agency web site.Under the profiles section there was a box to list hobbies and pastimes and as a matter of interest I clicked on a few of the lasies profiles across a wide range on age groups. There were all similar and went something like the following. Oh I should say tha most also stated that they worked full time and many had at least 2 children. Our typical woman's profile then.
PASTIMES & HOBBIES
Going to the Gym 3 times a week. Music Concerts & Festivals. Hill walking. Rock Climbing. Hang Gliding. Horse Riding. Reading. Writing Peotry. Old Movies. More Gym and Keep Fit Classes. Holidays abroad & Travel. Entertaining. Dancing.
Quite impressive isn't it. Remember. This is not an overall list of hobbies but what virtually every woman stated her own personal interests as being.
Well beam me up to another planet Scottie because I have spent 40 years believing all that garbage that most of a woman's time is taken up by looking after the kids & housework and how they never had a minute to spare. Not one single minute.
It's not just that but do you notice that there no mention of doing a little bit of knitting there or making patchwork quilts out of all those new dresses that were a must have in a sale a year before and never worn.
Oh no. The gals today are into dangerous sports like Wing Walking & Mounterneering - and they can still read a Mills & Boon novel while climbing the North side of the Eiger. As for Bingo on a Friday night and going on to visit the ailing Auntie Mabel. They are all off to Dublin for the weekend to go to a Van Morrison concert.
Patronising Scotsmum. Noo Noo Noo Lass. You just need to loosen the elastic a bit here and there and then your laugh your head off.
Robert
Sorry to go off thread guys.
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