Splitting my different services into 2 or 3 businesses?

[lolage]

I'm a photographer and videographer. At the moment I split up b2c (wedding videos) and b2b (business videos and photography) but I have recently just got a studio so am going to start offering portrait/family/pet photography which is again b2c but feel it doesn't properly fit exactly with a company offering predominantly wedding video.

Would it make sense to split the weddings and studio/portrait stuff or join it all together?

From my POV:

Advantages to splitting up weddings + studio/portraits:
- Makes me look less of a jack of all trades
- Maybe better for SEO?

Disadvantages to splitting up weddings + studio/portraits:
- Extra website cost
- More maintenance looking after, and creating consistent content for a 3rd website
- More social media accounts to grow/keep on top of

What would you guys do? Thanks a lot.

 

[Lloyd N8N]

I would tie it in with your B2C stuff.

 

[Matt.WD]

As someone who's not long booked a wedding photographer, I'd be more inclined to choose you if I thought that weddings was all you did. Otherwise like you say, you could come across as a jack of all trades and couples looking to spend £££+ might be put off.

 

[Lloyd N8N]

I think images sell a photographer.

I paid a fortune years back for my wedding photographer and we spent hours online, looking at various photographers photos.

 

[garyk]

I would say split it. Wedding photography is a premium service and it means you can target all your marketing effort accordingly.

 

[lolage]

Thanks guys, I'm all up for splitting it up - I'm just concerned mainly about being able to keep on top of 3 social media accounts. I'm also in the works of setting up a clothing line, so to have 4 different brands to manage sounds a little daunting...

 

[Matt.WD]

Sounds like you could be in danger of spreading yourself too thin!

 

[Nochexman]

I'm a photographer and videographer.

How successful are you at running your business? Are you adding new businesses to existing successful ones?

 

[lolage]

How successful are you at running your business? Are you adding new businesses to existing successful ones?

I'm doing fairly well at the moment from mainly freelance work, I have a few bookings next year for my own work but I'm basically getting websites designed now so that I can actually get my own clients instead of working for other people all the time.

My full time job before I quit earlier this year was in marketing, so I feel I have a fairly good understanding of what's involved once it's all setup - it's just deciding on how much I want to split it all up. Splitting up B2B/B2C seemed obvious but I don't want to split it up too much.

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

The way I read your services you have the two businesses...

Wedding & portrait/studio work would all be under the one roof

Business photo's & Videography is the second business.

The fact that you run from one studio wouldn't/shouldn't impact on how you portray yourself to the B2B as they'll tend to ask for you to attend their properties... by all means you could keep an area for the B2B stuff, such as a meeting room/demonstration room (corner) - but it really shouldn't make any difference.

By being able to offer the studio use to a bride and groom would actually be more beneficial especially if someone wasn't able to attend their day due to ill health or something... additionally it would also allow for continuous work - upon presenting your photo's or if you provide the albums... drop in a nice 50% discount gift card of a newborn photo session etc.

 

[webgeek]

If splitting it up means setting up a separate website/domain/branding, then yes, specialise and target your audience appropriately. You don't want multiple legal entities though - that's an unnecessary pain in the backside.

 

[billmccallum1957]

Is VAT an issue for you? HMRC might see it as artificial separation to avoid VAT.

 

[lolage]

The way I read your services you have the two businesses...

Wedding & portrait/studio work would all be under the one roof

Business photo's & Videography is the second business.

The fact that you run from one studio wouldn't/shouldn't impact on how you portray yourself to the B2B as they'll tend to ask for you to attend their properties... by all means you could keep an area for the B2B stuff, such as a meeting room/demonstration room (corner) - but it really shouldn't make any difference.

By being able to offer the studio use to a bride and groom would actually be more beneficial especially if someone wasn't able to attend their day due to ill health or something... additionally it would also allow for continuous work - upon presenting your photo's or if you provide the albums... drop in a nice 50% discount gift card of a newborn photo session etc.

Yeah I actually think weddings+portraits go hand in hand. After they've got married, if they want family photos I'll be the first person they think of...

If splitting it up means setting up a separate website/domain/branding, then yes, specialise and target your audience appropriately. You don't want multiple legal entities though - that's an unnecessary pain in the backside.

Thanks, but I'm kind of hoping portraits/weddings can be linked.

Is VAT an issue for you? HMRC might see it as artificial separation to avoid VAT.

I'm not VAT registered.

 

[webgeek]

If you're a business whose costs are largely your labour, then by registering for flat rate VAT, you could put another 5% to 10% straight into your pocket, since you bill 20% VAT but only have to pay a certain % (11, 14.5, etc, etc, depending on your particular type of business).

 

[lolage]

If you're a business whose costs are largely your labour, then by registering for flat rate VAT, you could put another 5% to 10% straight into your pocket, since you bill 20% VAT but only have to pay a certain % (11, 14.5, etc, etc, depending on your particular type of business).

Hmm, very interesting - need to look into this but yeah my cost is largely my time.

 

[Michelle Harris]

Thanks guys, I'm all up for splitting it up - I'm just concerned mainly about being able to keep on top of 3 social media accounts. I'm also in the works of setting up a clothing line, so to have 4 different brands to manage sounds a little daunting...

That would the the last thing to worry about - you can outsource that.

 

[The Byre]

A one-man show, trying to be three companies is a dreadful idea and one you should drop right now!

1. It looks damn silly!

2. It takes a great deal of effort to create a corporate image for one enterprise - now you want to treble that effort and in the process, get one-third of the response!

You are a photographer. You take pictures. Some of those pictures jiggle about and some are still. Even with a studio, some DSLRs, a set of 4K movie cameras and all the glass involved, as well as lights, grips, etc. we are looking at an investment of £100k max. About the same as a one man car repair shop!

The Ford Motor Company is slightly larger than you. In reality, it is hundreds of companies, Ford Marine Engines, Ford Finance UK Ltd, Ford Deutschland GmbH, literally hundreds of companies, four or five for every country they do business in. Add to that, all the franchises, who add their own name to the magic word Ford and we are talking thousands and thousands of separate entities!

But all these companies, some of them dealing with finance, some with insurance, some with large marine engines, some with research and development into hydrogen fuel cells, some searching for natural gas - all these hundreds of disparate activities strive to create ONE CORPORATE IMAGE.

It is a policy that has served them well!

 

[Luc Durand]

- Maybe better for SEO?

It may not be. I am assuming you will be running your business from the same location which may cause you a problem in local search results as Google may see this as spamming. The rule of thumb is 1 business= 1 location (address details). If you can sort this one out then you can run multiple entities. As you already mentioned you will have to maintain multiple sites and social media accounts.
I would personally keep the one site (which may already have authority) and use it to push both services. Creating a new domain means you will be starting from scratch. As you know it will be an uphill battle if you can't focus 100% of your time in it.

 

[Deleted member 268094]

Perhaps a different viewpoint is needed (from the photography / videography at least). Rather than seeing each element as a different business view them as different products. A business can have many products some of which will require different marketing. Or maybe thats a long winded way of saying split them up (from a marketing perspective at the very least). That would be my advice even though I don't strictly follow it!

For what its worth I know a photographer who does both. He outwardly brands the business for commercial work but has been picking up a steady stream of wedding photography through referrals for over a decade. Maybe you dont need to go all out on the marketing for both sides of the business? Maybe it's late on a friday afternoon my brain is fried and I don't know what my point is now

 

[webgeek]

The rule of thumb is 1 business= 1 location (address details).

Those days are long gone. Search for: 272 Bath Street, Glasgow

Notice how many results there are, because there's a shedload of businesses there. In cities, it's not 1 business per 1 address, and Google has stopped enforcing that rule quite some time ago.

Having multiple fictitious names or DBA's (doing business as) is a part of businesses with multiple brands. Having multiple domains, one for each brand or DBA, is a normal part of business.

If this weren't the case Procter & Gamble would have to sell detergent, diapers, pregnancy tests, batteries, toothbrushes, dog food, cake mix, pickles, razors and 10,000 other products from a single address/domain/brand name, which is something that isn't going to happen in this lifetime.

 

[Luc Durand]

Those days are long gone

Very interesting webgeek but according to Google's guidelines In order to qualify for local inclusion, avoid penalties and prevent merging, your client must be able to answer yes to the following 3 points

1) Does the business have a unique, dedicated physical address (not a virtual address, P.O. Box or shared address)?

2) Does the business have a unique, dedicated local phone number in the city of location (not an 0800 number, not a call tracking number, not a shared number)

3) Does the business have in-person transactions with its customers, either at its own location (like a restaurant) or at the customers' locations (like a plumber)?

If the business does not meet any one of these 3 criteria, it does not qualify for local inclusion. If lolage can't say yes to point one, Local SEO will be nothing but problematic for him. Here's why:

If 2 or more businesses share an address, suite address or phone number (or even if their names are too similar), Google will frequently merge the business details of the listings. This means that Joe the Barber can end up with Jim the Plumber's business name, phone number or reviews showing up on his listing. Merging is one of the most difficult issues to deal with in Local, and one to be avoided at all costs.

I personally wouldn' take the risk with any of my clients.

 

[Nochexman]

I'm doing fairly well at the moment from mainly freelance work, I have a few bookings next year for my own work but I'm basically getting websites designed now so that I can actually get my own clients instead of working for other people all the time.

...Splitting up B2B/B2C seemed obvious but I don't want to split it up too much.

As a matter of principle, and management from your point of view, try and keep this one business - use the department store analogy. One product on one floor, another on another. When your business is successful you might have the nice problem of separating them, but you need to get to that point first and the more you can cross promote the better. When you are successful you can choose which of these products to get behind and which to harvest. Best of luck.

 

[webgeek]

Check 272 Bath Street on Google local listings and then admit the reality is far different from the guidelines. Or check the businesses claiming to be a 272 Bath street.

 

[Luc Durand]

Check 272 Bath Street

There may be many businesses located at 272 bath street but how many of these show up in local search results for their chosen keywords? How many in the local pack?
I am not saying this is right or wrong. I am just saying that having multiple businesses at the same location may be tricky, especially if they share the same phone number, provide very similar services with very similar names. It kinds of goes against Google's guidelines. By the same token, It is highly recommended not to buy backlinks according to google yet many businesses still do it.
With the emergence of mobile browsing and the explosion of local searches Google is now spending a great deal of time and effort ensuring that nobody is gaming the local algorithm. Hence the reason I wouldn't recommend splitting the business in two different entities operating from the same location. But at the end of the day it's only a piece of advice, nothing else.

 

[The Byre]

Who cares what a $240bn company like Proctor and Gamble do! And what ever goes on at 272 Bath Street in Glasgow (or even at 17, Oil Drum Lane, Scunthorpe) is completely irrelevant to the OP, who is a single photographer and not a giant international company, stitched together by a thousand M&As.

He certainly does not give me the impression that he is to be compared with some dodgy Glaswegian knocking-shop!

 

[webgeek]

There may be many businesses located at 272 bath street but how many of these show up in local search results for their chosen keywords? How many in the local pack?

Thousands of them appear in local for their keywords.

 

[webgeek]

Who cares what a $240bn company like Proctor and Gamble do! And what ever goes on at 272 Bath Street in Glasgow (or even at 17, Oil Drum Lane, Scunthorpe) is completely irrelevant to the OP.

If you read the thread, this is very relevant.

The P&G example points to the fact that individual brands can be owned by a single entity, each having their own domain and local listing.

The 272 bath example shows how thousands of businesses have the same address and show up for their terms for local search results.

Those were the issues, those were the examples that proved the points.

Brothels have nothing to do with this conversation, that I can make out, but perhaps since you raised the point, you can explain.

 

[Banksbroo]

I'm with the Byre. Keep it simple and clear. Save yourself a huge amount of work in pretending to be 3 businesses, when you could present yourself as a very capable business who does weddings and commerical protography. It would be different if your commercial offering was photography and bricklaying.

 

[serendipitybusiness]

I would split it, then link it. So once you have done weddings and they are happy, then reveal the portrait side.