Smokers - Advice needed!!

[LJB]

We have a staff of 12 of which 5-6 smoke. Our offices look onto a courtyard and has a front and side door. I am sick of the sight of them congregating outside the side door throughout the day. Any advice on how I could tackle this? I don't like banning things. My current thought goes like this: Lock the side door and enforce a rule of 1 fag in the morning, one fag in the afternoon and not to smoke within, say, 20 metres of the office. What is fair and how is best to enforce the ruling? Thanks.

 

[Pebble Communications]

You don't have to let them have any fag-breaks and they tend to piss off the other non-smoking staff.

It's also not unusual to say that people can't smoke on company property (outside door/in car-park etc) but I don't think you can enforce a 20 metres rule if they are on public property within that.

 

It's National No Smoking Day today:
http://www.nosmokingday.org.uk/

I'd ban it all together, it's disgusting and not fair on the other staff.

 

[Exclusively You!]

To be honest with you, it is not a case of being fare or not, they choose to smoke (no offence to smokers) if it is creating a bad image with all these people outside your building smoking, unfortunately you need to do what is best for your business and put your foot down and not worry about hurting peoples feelings.

The ban has been put in place for a reason, not to annoy smokers but to try to help them to cut down and quit, smoking is damaging to health I can't see why people would want to slowly kill themselves.

When you really think about it all you do when you smoke is breath in smoke and blow it back out again, where's the sense in that?

I am sure I am going to alienate myself against smokers on this site but I don't mean to offend anyone I am just voicing my opinions.


Regards

EY!

 

[mark_hadfield]

If I were one of your non-smoking members of staff I'd do one of two things:

1) Expect more money than them as I'm sat at my desk working when theyr'e chatting, or
2) If you didn't give me more money every time they congregated - I'd go and stand with them. If they're not working - I'm not.

Of course - I don't thikn like that - but some people do...

 

[The Agency]

I think that most people would accept a morning break, afternoon break and lunch break without an issue. Most of the places i used to work gave 15 minutes in the morning, 30 for lunch and 15 in the afternoon.

Everywhere i know who doesn't have a smoking room enforce a no smoking on company property rule.

 

[RayB]

This will become illegal from either 1st June or July 2007 - so the government has sorted the problem for you!

 

[LJB]

What about this memo? Suggested changes/additions welcoms.....

Dear all

The company is putting in place rules governing smoking at work. This is being done for the following reasons:

1. Too much productivity is lost through employees taking regular smoking breaks.

2. Allowing smokers to have breaks is unfair to and usually resented by by their non-smoking colleagues.

3. Smokers congregating outside offices is unsightly.

4. Reducing smoking in the work place is in line with a sound company health and safety at work policy.

Therefore, as and from Monday 19, smoking is not allowed within the front gate.

The Management

 

[PMA Accountants]

What about all the coffee breaks that staff take through out the day..

I totalled up the amount of time a member of staff spent in the kitchen making coffee throughout one working day. It totalled up to 48 minutes. and thats on top of the hour lunch they get...

I think all staff should work like robots....

anyway...back to the smoking...the UK ban starts 1st July..

 

[Astaroth]

It all depends on if they are abusing a relaxed working atmostsphere by taking more time away from their desks than the non-smokers do or if they are simply using their allotted breaks to have a fag rather than a coffee and crisps etc.

If there is no abuse of the system then there is little you can do other than clamp down on the system itself but then affects all employees. You cannot stop them from doing things on public property but you can for land you own. Most the companies I have worked for have set up an outside "smoking area" and have encouraged staff to use it by setting up a wee shelter to keep off the rain, butt bins for the ends and small shelves etc for standing their drinks on which makes people much more likely to obey the rules when the alternatives are standing out in the rain trying to hold a coffee at the same time as lighting a fag.

 

[Gillie]

anyway...back to the smoking...the UK ban starts 1st July..

I think you will find you mean England and possibly Wales, as Scotland has had one in force for quite a while now and NI starts in April ....

Although thinking about it, Wales will possibly be before the 1 July date too!

See, we got it good here in England for a while longer you smokers!!

 

[AlphOmega]

As a smoker myself I have a different view. Not being able to satisfy your addiction makes your productivity fall big time as your dieing for a fag. I have never had a job where I could not smoke when I wanted. I have had many jobs where you were not supposed to, but did anyway.

I can however accept the fact that non-smokers are not happy as they have less breaks, but as in the way women generally dont do heavy lifting at work but the men do - thats life im afraid.

Maybe the new law will get us smokers to cut down and quit - we will have to see how its enforced.

 

[spidersites]

Hi,
I think its time someone stood up for the smokers. Ive heard it said that smokers think faster than non smokers. As a smoker I usually went ourside with my smoking collegues and we would ofter continue working by talking about our work - and weed often end up solving a problem which we were stuck on.
Software developers can spend a whole day achieving virtually nothing, and then achieve several days work in a couple of hours. I think too much ephasis is put on the time people spend at their desks, when it better to monitor how productive they are.
regards

 

[Optegris]

What about employees who waste time sending private emails, surfing youtube, chatting to mates, sending text msgs?

They are being just as unproductive as the smokers, if not more.

Your employees have a right to regular breaks through the day so just enforce the fact that they can only smoke during their break and off company land.

I'm a smoker btw

 

[leemason]

I doubt that there is any link between how many breaks (smoking, coffee, etc) an individual takes and how efficient they are. Some people can get more done in 2 hours than others can in a whole day. It's down to the individual. It's a bit like being obsessed with time keeping. I worked for a manager who used to have everyone sign a book and he would draw a red line at 09:00. Anyone signing below would be "told off". I didn't see then and don't see any connection between those who were in early and the amount of work they actually did (in a normal office environment).

 

[dev99]

how about

In the interest of Health & Safety at work, and taking the manufacturers warning that 'smoking can seriously damage your health'. we would like to introduce no smoking at this workplace

 

[Richard Conyard]

Rather than banning have you thought about putting up a small 'fence' by the side door to block the view?

I agree (and yes I smoke), that having employees congregate smoking is not the right image, and since you haven't anywhere out of site it's tricky.

 

[bwglaw]

The best way to tackle the issue is to draft a 'no smoking policy' and notify all employees of its effect i.e. enforced from 1 July 2007. You cannot simply say have one fag in the morning and one in the afternoon because how will you monitor this, what happens if an employee has 2 fags in the morning!

I think it is a case of an entire ban or no ban at all.

Jonathan

 

[PI Guy]

They should smoke in their own time not on yours and not on your company premises

 

[AlphOmega]

If the government makes it illegal then thats fair enough, however if you ban the smoking for your employees then beware. It will trash morale, they will think less of you and may not care too much with their work. Also if the stay in your job they will become stressed from not being allowed to smoke.

Employees are human beings not machines and some may choose to smoke, its their choice. A boss that just goes around banning things is never going to have a happy motivated workforce. They smoke - just discuss with them your problem and ask with help for solution - they may even respect you for it - ban it they hate you!

 

I smoke myself, but never during the firms time. I believe if you are paying me for my time - then thats what you should get.
I have a smoke on the way to work, one when I'm out for my lunch and one on the way home - then I can do what I want.

My new premises are getting set up from this friday & I will introduce a smoking ban in them - even for me

I agree with the comment earlier though about productivity - I have worked with people who would do 50% of what I can do in a day & they seemed to think they were normal workers. If I need a smoke, then it probably wouldn't harm my productivity - but I have always disliked the smell in an office atmosphere.

 

[Lisette]

Hi LJB

As someone who has implemented non smoking policies at work from time to time I suggest that less is more in terms of the memo. You introduce a non smoking policy - in line with H&S objectives and then you advise people - giving them some notice - the more notice you give the less noise you get when the date kicks in.

It sounds like you have a non smoking policy so what you now need to do is to prevent the unsightly huddle of smokers at your front door and the requirement for people to cross a fug of smoke on the way in/out.

I would not start the 'not fair you get 10 mins off debate' since this is a horrible can of worms and can trigger all sorts of petty behaviours. You only have 12 people and only 5-6 smoke. I would talk to each of the smokers on a one to one basis and follow up with a brief note or short team meeting referring people to your new policy. To the individuals you basically say, we are trying to be unreasonable but we need to ensure that our non smoking policy is adhered to and that our professional image is maintained and that clearly whlist you can take a break from your work during the day we would not expect this to impact on your productivity or availability or some such. Exactly what you say depends on the person. If someone is taking too much time away from their work to smoke (or indeed do anything else) talk to them about this and ask them to start to make it up by coming in earlier, going home later etc.

 

[KM-Tiger]

All this talk of bans and rules and memos is petty nonsense. Next you will be suggesting "instant fines" or ASBOS for smokers or whatever King Tony dreams up next. All it will lead to will be a lot of wasted paper and time.

Talk to people, motivate them to perform and whether they take a cigarete break, a coffee break, or any other break, will be irrelevant.

 

[sjbeale]

From 1 July 2007 smoking in public places will be banned (from 2 April for Wales and Northern Ireland).

You need to review your employment policies and procedures to ensure you are operating within the law with smoking indoors banned.

As an employer you pay your staff to come to work not to stand around smoking. You also need to consider the image your staff are giving by standing around outside your premises smoking.

 

[Conceptstore]

1.) Let them smoke inside the building and tell the non smokers to go outside if they like fresh air so much
Sorry, could not help myself.

2.) Let them smoke at their desk that way no working time is wasted.

At the end of the day your the boss, do what you think is best. Smoking will be ruled out in work places anyway so maybe its a good time to slowly cut down the cigerette breaks and implement some rules although the smokers will not be happy just tell them its for there own good. Do it slowly so there is no uproar!

Good Luck!

 

[Stephen Berry]

Why not shoot all smokers?
That would short-circuit their painfully slow suicide attempt and save the NHS billions.

On second thoughts - the cost of a bullet is too much - let's garrotte them - and then I may even be able to emerge form a pub not smelling like an ashtray.

 

[AlphOmega]

Why not shoot you?

Dont like smoke in a pub, use the garden

 

[Gillie]

Tolerance in all forms of life ...

 

I have sampled the ban in a pub in Glasgow when I was over for a footie match and it is great. You can see all the way across the bar and can breathe much easier. I spoke to the doorman when I went outside for a smoke & he told me that most folk don't even go to the door for a smoke anymore as they lose seats, drinks, etc.

I think that people have a right to smoke, but not at others expense. I hate people smoking anywhere near food and I am happy to have it cut in pubs etc as we all smoke far too much when drinking.

As for the workplace, come 30th April NI workplaces will be smoke free and it seems to already be phased in in most places - nobody seems to mind that much.

Phase out the smoke breaks and give them somewhere less conspicuous to smoke during breaks. They will not cause you any grief as long as you don't completely ban it all at once.

 

[R1chard]

From 1 July 2007 smoking in public places will be banned (from 2 April for Wales and Northern Ireland).

You need to review your employment policies and procedures to ensure you are operating within the law with smoking indoors banned.

As an employer you pay your staff to come to work not to stand around smoking. You also need to consider the image your staff are giving by standing around outside your premises smoking.

With the ban you have to have signs up saying its illegal to smoke in the office. I understand that you cant make provision for smokers as well. The door way to your premises would could as being part of your premises so they simply wont be allowed to smoke near the building.

As we have the benefit of a garden at our premises we thought about having a path down to the bottom of the garden with a canopy of some description... that is apparently encouraging smoking and therefore we cant provide it...

 

[R1chard]

Quick info from the glorious google:

http://www.bytestart.co.uk/content/legal/35_2/new-smoking-laws.shtml

 

[R1chard]

Another handy link http://www.smokefreeengland.co.uk/

 

[Dawg]

Seren Berry:

That would short-circuit their painfully slow suicide attempt and save the NHS billions.

Well no actually. Estimated expenditure by NHS on smoking related conditions £1.7bn. Treasury revenue from tobacco tax, £12bn.

There are many, cogent, arguments against smoking as seen from this link, (where the figures come from), but the "save the NHS money" is a canard.

Thats the end of agreeing with the Dawg huh?

Agree with Dawg (something which must not become a habit)

KM is on the mark.