Site hit by penguin update

[Websitehandyman]

if it was so easy to do - i don't understand why seo people don't just create loads of websites and makes zillions from adsense or sell the website to someone who has a product to match the website...it seems bonkers to me to bother yourself trying to convince clients that you can get them to number 1 slot in big G. if you could get number one slot for phrases like "mobile phones", "shoes" or whatever then you are made - why waste your time getting clients - they would come to you if you could do this.

Well that nothing to do with SEO as Google see it is it ?

I mean whats already stopping people doing that are the rules in Adsense and Adwords about content.

It's not SEO it's GEO because these problems only apply to Google. There again Google is the only option now, Bing is about as use use a a chocolate teapot even if you can get past it's "quality" trap.

I'm not for governments interfering with Internet but Google's level of control is unacceptable and it's effect on business needs to be measured to see if that is causing harm. Many people think Google look after their big partners (or big payers) and they have been squeezing on advertising for years using the "brand name" excuse and if not that "quality" and if not that something else.

 

[funkykitsch]

I agree about big G have too much dominance in the market - it's like there is only 1 search engine now...i feel a bit sorry for microsoft the way they got hammered - but hey apple is big now - why aren't they getting kicked for being too big?
It does seem like one rule for one and another for somebody else.

 

[fisicx]

Tesco, Amazon and a whole lot more all have dominance. Everybody complains but they still use them.

Remember as well that google's users are not the website owners. The people who google is interested in are those searching for stuff. The fact that you own a website selling that stuff is irrelevant to the people who want that stuff. All they know is that google will provide them with a list of stuff suppliers.

If you want to have your stuff shop seen by people then pay for your marketing.

If the other search engines advertised and pushed their brand then maybe Google's dominance would diminish. But they don't, so they are in no position to complain.

 

[terryuk]

If the other search engines advertised and pushed their brand then maybe Google's dominance would diminish. But they don't, so they are in no position to complain.

Bing advertises all the time, never once seen Google on TV aside from a lawsuit

 

[funkykitsch]

Tesco, Amazon and a whole lot more all have dominance. Everybody complains but they still use them.

Remember as well that google's users are not the website owners. The people who google is interested in are those searching for stuff. The fact that you own a website selling that stuff is irrelevant to the people who want that stuff. All they know is that google will provide them with a list of stuff suppliers.

If you want to have your stuff shop seen by people then pay for your marketing.

If the other search engines advertised and pushed their brand then maybe Google's dominance would diminish. But they don't, so they are in no position to complain.

tesco have a lot of the market, but people also use asda, sainsburys,morrissons,waitrose, aldi etc.
amazon has a lot of customers but people also use loads of other sites like play.com, ebay.com etc. everybody uses google it seems and nobody uses anything else worth talking about...it's a monopoly and it's wrong. If you aren't found naturally in the SERPS then you are forced into using google adwords pretty much. something has to be done and it has to be done at a government level IMHO.

 

[aidan1980]

Bing advertises all the time, never once seen Google on TV aside from a lawsuit

so did jeeves and that one with the black dog

 

[Annoying Donkey]

if it was so easy to do - i don't understand why seo people don't just create loads of websites and makes zillions from adsense or sell the website to someone who has a product to match the website...

I can't speak for others, but I earn more from my own virtual real estate than I do from SEM. IMHO Adsense is not even close to the best way to earn income online.

it seems bonkers to me to bother yourself trying to convince clients that you can get them to number 1 slot in big G.

If I were starting an SEM business now, I'd probably make other services my primary service. I think clients are far more cynical towards SEO than when I started in 2009.

if you could get number one slot for phrases like "mobile phones", "shoes" or whatever then you are made - why waste your time getting clients - they would come to you if you could do this.

Most of our clients do come to us - I can't remember when I last chased a client

I agree about big G have too much dominance in the market - it's like there is only 1 search engine now...

Hate to say it, but there's only been one search engine for the last 10-12 years...

 

[Annoying Donkey]

so did jeeves and that one with the black dog

I was watching a film the other day where the heroes typed in their question to 'Ask Jeeves' and got an instant answer... So take that big G!

 

[terryuk]

I was watching a film the other day where the heroes typed in their question to 'Ask Jeeves' and got an instant answer... So take that big G!

Probably because it's Google results anyway funny if it was so

I can't confirm Anyone?

http://about.ask.com/en/docs/about/editorial_guidelines.shtml

 

[terryuk]

so did jeeves and that one with the black dog

The black dog? Never heard of it

Or was he supposed to go fetch the information

 

[fisicx]

amazon has a lot of customers but people also use loads of other sites like play.com, ebay.com etc.

1 in 7 pounds spent in the UK is at Amazon - they have a bigger market share than Tesco. Any my mum doesn't care, she can get her books and CDs deliverd tomorrow

I still can't see the problem you have with Google. They provide great service to their searchers (most of the time). If you want cheap socks or a picture of a cute kitten then it's tops. If you want a video of a bloke in a skirt playing the ukelele it's magic. Does it really matter in 99% of the population use it? They deliver the goods to the people who sure their search engine.

They might not meet your needs as a website owner but since you don't contribute to the google coffers they really don't care.

Do we suggest facebook is a monopoly because 99% of the social media activity goes through their site?

Google provide a FREE indexing service. Read the T&C, they owe you nothing.

 

[Suzuki]

Google provide a FREE indexing service. Read the T&C, they owe you nothing.

Not quite true. Googles T&C's don't overrule various anti competition laws (as much as Google wish they did )

Google are a monopoly, they do owe us something in that they play fairly, which they are failing miserably at sticking to.

 

[fisicx]

In whose eyes are they failing? For their users the results are exactly what they want. A website owner not think so but they are not a customer of google.

I'm not defending google, just pointing out that the people complaining are not those who use google to find things.

 

[Suzuki]

In whose eyes are they failing? For their users the results are exactly what they want. A website owner not think so but they are not a customer of google.

I'm not defending google, just pointing out that the people complaining are not those who use google to find things.

The laws are there to protect people from monopolies... Google are clearly abusing the fact they have a monopoly. They can just enter any niche they choose and instantly displace the current market leaders, without any fairness to the approach.

Just because the general public are too stupid (or just don't care) to notice whats going on, that doesn't make it right.

 

[eventdomain]

if it was so easy to do - i don't understand why seo people don't just create loads of websites and makes zillions from adsense or sell the website to someone who has a product to match the website...it seems bonkers to me to bother yourself trying to convince clients that you can get them to number 1

Because they can't do it, - I see the same for Financial consultants and how they promise to make you rich, if you pay them loads of dosh.

Trouble is, the basic SEO stuff is heavily frowned upon by Google and I bet SEO's don't have the resources they claim eg: that they seem to be able to get you 400 links on such and such batch of sites etc - but you know its a bunch of worthless blog links and stuff, the reality is its so tough to get links period now, the web has clammed up and shut its doors to the SEO spammers, and I'd think they know this by now as its no secret.

Twitter, now starting to crack down on the amounts of free messages allowed to send:

https://support.twitter.com/articles/15364-about-twitter-limits-update-api-dm-and-following#

-------------

To get traffic flow, a website needs links, but 200 unrelated blog links is useless now, as G comes along and says "No, this isn't what we want to see" - and so you get penalised slightly..... but its enough to keep you off that 1st page or whatever and that's what counts as far as search engines are concerned. Forcing everyone to compete is great for SE's, they know everyone can't be on the same level, and unless you are sitting at No1, you are stuffed traffic-wise, unless you happen to own a portal yourself that generates 30 million of page requests, and not too many own those. What's the alternative - oh buy adwords @ £3 a click. - but normal people can't afford this right.. only the big corporates, so I don't think Google is for SME's business owners.

SEO's can't game the engines, or force their way onto paid, high turnover websites or they'd be doing it wouldn't they, don't you think. Some try this, we've seen it ourselves, dodgy little so and so's they are hehe.

I'm tempted to get a message pop up saying "Better luck next time - slugheads "

Seriously, the pathetic SEO tricks have had it, authority websites have spent thousands on blocking out undesirables.... and the SEO's are right to panic now as its tough to deliver anything of quality or en-mass for their clients without paying for it.

 

[webgeek]

Sorry ED but you've somehow strayed a mile from the ballpark on this.

"SEO's don't have the resources they claim"
"don't think Google is for SME's"
"SEO's are right to panic now"

These sweeping statements, without foundation in fact, are not helping the OP with their Penguin/penalty situation.

There are SEO's who haven't changed their basic approach in years. They go for great on site content and build quality inbound links.

There are also SEO's who change their approach with each major new algorithm enhancement.

Neither of those types of SEO practitioners are suffering or in a panic. Those are the ones experiencing growth at a great pace and delivering results to their customers.

Of course there are some cowboys who have tried to spray and pray their way to the top, finding it harder and harder to get results with mass blasting tools and spun content on blog networks.

But an evolving market, a more informed buyer and proliferation of social media/reviews/forums have made it so vendors have to compete more effectively, or perish, whether it's SEO, website design, baker, fish monger, home builders, or whatever.

The dinosaurs are being culled in every sector, not just SEO, and putting a label on all SEO's as if they're all created equal is nonsense (to put it mildly).

 

[Big Pete]

Sorry ED but you've somehow strayed a mile from the ballpark on this.

"SEO's don't have the resources they claim"
"don't think Google is for SME's"
"SEO's are right to panic now"

These sweeping statements, without foundation in fact, are not helping the OP with their Penguin/penalty situation.

There are SEO's who haven't changed their basic approach in years. They go for great on site content and build quality inbound links.

There are also SEO's who change their approach with each major new algorithm enhancement.

Neither of those types of SEO practitioners are suffering or in a panic. Those are the ones experiencing growth at a great pace and delivering results to their customers.

Of course there are some cowboys who have tried to spray and pray their way to the top, finding it harder and harder to get results with mass blasting tools and spun content on blog networks.

But an evolving market, a more informed buyer and proliferation of social media/reviews/forums have made it so vendors have to compete more effectively, or perish, whether it's SEO, website design, baker, fish monger, home builders, or whatever.

The dinosaurs are being culled in every sector, not just SEO, and putting a label on all SEO's as if they're all created equal is nonsense (to put it mildly).

Very good post , should be put as the post of the week .. well if they had one ? if they don`t then its about time they did !!

 

[eventdomain]

"SEO's don't have the resources they claim"
"don't think Google is for SME's"
"SEO's are right to panic now"

These sweeping statements, without foundation in fact, are not helping the OP with their Penguin/penalty situation.

Ok, perhaps this will explain things:

SEO takes on client, he makes certain promises like "We can get you No1 spot for Hotels in London", we'll do this by getting you 100 links and our fee is £3000, payable in advance please"

So SEO goes a link hunting, and discovers during his research that the 100 links he needs either dont exist, or cannot get on to such without paying some fee. The SEO now has few options, he's buggered, but he's already been paid see, so must deliver or faces having to refund the client.

He also finds that the sites that do exist, have no way of uploading a free listing/links - ......now those limited options just decreased tenfold, yet he knows he must deliver to his client! Now panic sets in, or at least slight nervousness, as reality says the decent/targeted webspace isn't open to the likes of the freebie hunter. So, only options left is to get any old links, so SEO heads straight for article banks, a few link swaps and general directories or whatever blogs to satisfy the client.

The sweeping statement line? Na, just common sense and looking before you spam. The blocking of links is just a reaction to stop undesirables, and the world will never prevent individual site owners from blocking SEO's clients out for life, if the websites deem it necessary.

 

[Annoying Donkey]

These sweeping statements, without foundation in fact, are not helping the OP with their Penguin/penalty situation.

Very little of what ED says has any foundation in fact. He lives in his own little world...

 

[duongo]

Ok, wow, i'm the original poster of the thread...glad to see it's caused such a debate...but i'm none the wise :|

Maybe i'll post my thread to the 'tenders' section

 

[funkykitsch]

lycos wasn't it?

 

[terryuk]

lycos wasn't it?

The black dog..

I like the 404 error page, lost dog

'FYI. Do not actually try to call 1-404-ERROR.'

 

[Curious]

Ok, wow, i'm the original poster of the thread...glad to see it's caused such a debate...but i'm none the wise :|

Maybe i'll post my thread to the 'tenders' section

OP just a quick one - are you absolutely sure it is penguin that got you? There have been several iterations of Panda that have rolled out in recent months. Apologies if someone else has asked this already in this thread.

If I were you I'd also take a look at the copy on my site, is it unique to you? You can check this by selecting a sentence of text on your site and searching for it in google with " " at either end of it. If there are a lot of results for it you should really look at creating your own unique content - give Google a reason to rank you ahead of all the other sites that just use standard manufacturer copy.. Just my 2p.

 

[fisicx]

SEO takes on client, he makes certain promises like "We can get you No1 spot for Hotels in London", we'll do this by getting you 100 links and our fee is £3000, payable in advance please"

You have no idea at all. The junk SEO link builder might work like this but there's an awful lot more who don't.

The fact that you are biased means your ranting becomes pointless.

 

[aidan1980]

lycos wasn't it?

that was it, they used to advertise loads on TV here

 

[funkykitsch]

You have no idea at all. The junk SEO link builder might work like this but there's an awful lot more who don't.

The fact that you are biased means your ranting becomes pointless.

i think you have to face facts that there are good SEO people out there and bad - as we are constantly bombarded with spam e-mails about SEO everyday isn't it understandable that we tarnish these people with the same brush - just like bankers/lawyers/real estate/tax man/car sales/jehovahs/internet marketing/..i'm sure there are some good people in there...actually NO!

 

[eventdomain]

@ WeblinkPlus

Very little of what ED says has any foundation in fact.

You can't get any better proof that real data from site users, so with all respect, please keep your ramblings to yourself.


@ fisicx

Not biased, just cautious in who I use for SEO

Please, don't make SEO out to be some sort of science, because its not. Its just a service, like anything else eg: you either do your own marketing or you hire someone to take the load off - its nothing more than that, and certainly not worth the £100's and £1000's I've been quoted by many freelancers.

You should hear some of daft traffic quotes I've been given, that wouldn't touch the sides of what my websites deliver every year for FREE!. And just so you know, these quotes are from what I'd say were people with some knowledge, and obvious over-selling. Ok, I expect a bit of bravado, and I like to see offers with a bit of ego, and hungry to get the contract, but really, its over-kill in many cases and boring listening to the "The only ones who can sort it" patter - there's probably thousands of white-hot SEOers that can all do the job, so what, doesn't mean you'll get the business if your deemed as too expensive.

I'd say price is a factor when choosing an SEO.

 

[John74a]

Be careful if you post content to different sites that have the exact same copy as your original. Even if you're still the author, Google may still flag this as duplicate content.

I am agreed with you because you are better guiding in this way.
Thanks

 

[steviemac]

Bing advertises all the time, never once seen Google on TV aside from a lawsuit

the truth is we all built Google into what it is today - we 'created the monster' that now controls the world. We told our internet friends to 'google' things and probably encouraged everyone we know to use Google. Google relied on people like us to encourage others to use it, now it no longer relies on us, we rely on it. Its position is virtually untouchable.

We have all been party to helping create this thing that now dominates our online world. There's no going back. We now have to live with it and appease it daily.

I'm afraid the die is cast.

 

[webgeek]

Sorry, but I've got Blekko open in one browser and WolframAlpha in another.

I'm trying to wean myself off Google. After all, if I can quit smoking, surely I can quit Googling.

 

[Annoying Donkey]

the truth is we all built Google into what it is today - we 'created the monster' that now controls the world. We told our internet friends to 'google' things and probably encouraged everyone we know to use Google. Google relied on people like us to encourage others to use it, now it no longer relies on us, we rely on it. Its position is virtually untouchable.

We have all been party to helping create this thing that now dominates our online world. There's no going back. We now have to live with it and appease it daily.

I'm afraid the die is cast.

What nonsense. You don't like G, then use Bing or anything else...

If you're talking about getting traffic to your client websites, then I would point out that there are many off high street businesses that survive and prosper, despite - or perhaps because of - the lack of 'drop in' traffic. They just accept that they need a different strategy. As a marketer, you should understand this...