sick pay

[Luolou]

Evening all

I have a small dilemma and would appreciate your help. Our employees contracts say they are not entitled to any pay from us when they are off sick. They are entitled to SSP, which they only receive after the first three 3 days of bring ill. (Probably because of this they dont want to lose money I dont recall anyone every having more than a couple of days ill in the past).

However last Monday we had to send one of our guys home as soon as he got to work as he was clearly not well. He came in because he didnt want to lose his wages. Anyway, he diligently phoned us each day with an update, and at the end of day 3 said that by hook or by crook he would be in on Thursday. When we spoke to him he was still very unwell (doctor told him not to go to surgery!) so we told him he had to stay off for the rest of the week otherwise there was a risk he could pass his illness to the rest of our small workforce, and he was clearly still not well so it was not a wise decision to return.
So technically he is entitled to 2 days SSP which is just over £34. However I have been mulling this over all day - he genuinely wanted to come in and only didn't because we sent him home on day 1 and then refused to allow him to come back when he wanted to.

What would you do? Would you pay him for any of those 3 days he tried to work? I am concerned about setting a precedent, but as I said we have never had this situation before. I would appreciate your thoughts.
Thanks

 

[FIZIX Agency]

I would yes, people can't help becoming ill and their wages are their livelihoods.

One thing I will say and others are free to totally disagree with this. I think the way a lot of companies handle employee illness policy; like the policy you have, is actually counter productive as it does lead to staff coming in ill because they don't want to lose money and then end up spreading stuff around, harming performance etc. I also think it's slightly unfair to your workforce; it's kind of punishing them for illness. Humans are prone to illness and it's a hazard of living and everything that exists.

I'm somewhat of the inclination that all illness should be treat as genuine illness and to pay staff & to deal with those who are taking the mick when you have reason to believe they actually are.

 

[GraemeL]

E

What would you do? Would you pay him for any of those 3 days he tried to work? I am concerned about setting a precedent, but as I said we have never had this situation before. I would appreciate your thoughts.
Thanks

If you want to maintain your policy, you cannot pay.

However, you might like to introduce an incentive scheme for good annual attendance. Say (for example) £300 for every employee who completes a year without a day off. Needs polishing but that the gist of it.

In this instance, you would not pay for the sick days, but you could say that the employee would not lose the bonus. Just gives you more flexibility.

G

 

[FIZIX Agency]

^ thats a fair and reasonable way of doing it and doesn't punish people unfairly. Those who you feel are legit you could exempt or maybe allow a few days in the year as to prevent mutiny.

 

[Steve Sellers]

You can make the payment on a discretionary basis. For a one off payment there is no risk of setting a precedent and risking making it a verbal clause that runs alongside the written contract.

If you wish to pay it then do so. Write him a letter stating that the payment is made as a one off, and you do so purely on a discretionary basis.

For the future you could vary the contracts to state hat OSP is payable but only at the discretion of you. There wouldn't be any problems doing this as realistically, what employee is going to complain?

 

[Luolou]

You are right in some ways Fizix, however this policy was put in place years ago because we were being taken advantage of - people were only ever 'ill' on Fridays or Mondays. I appreciate your comments.

The bonus system Graeme is worth thinking about as well.

I suppose I already knew I didn't want to pay him only SSP, just needed someone to reinforce it.so Steve, I am going to go with your suggestion. Just one thing, the employees are all good mates and I am pretty sure that this will come up in their chats. I would prefer it not to be public knowledge ( We withheld a days pay recently from one of the others as is the policy) is there a way I can prevent the person I make this 'discretionary ' payment to from discussing I with his colleagues?

Oh, and you refer to OSP not SSP. Does that stand for occupational, so just another term for SSP?

Luolou

 

[Talay]

Back in the 1980s, Honda had a policy of a monthly attendance bonus if you were never late for shift, not only that you were never sick or absent and that bonus was doubled if you went the full year.

The monthly amount was not a lot, about £30 or so I seem to remember but it backfired because you had guys losing a whole year's doubling up because they were off for a day in the 11th month. This was after them busting a gut for 200 days.

The unintended consequence was that folk gave up on the doubling and then passed on the monthly as well. Because the lure of the double croc of gold had gone, the monthly amount wasn't as valuable.

Such a system worked well amongst the Japanese but not with the English.

Folk will get sick but if staff don't have enough flexibility to cover the unintended changes to their domestic lives on occasion, then they will use sickness as an excuse and you'll be sucking up the cost. Far better to review what sickness levels are and pick up any trends as part of a farther reaching update.

I factor a number of sick days per employee into my calculations from the start.

 

[InvalidUserName]

Implement a new meanie policy.
No sickies ever.
No exceptions.

 

[mrnate]

welcome to this forum ,
business is the growing environment to a country

 

[PuddlePayroll]

Luolou OSP does sand for occupational and normally what is referred to for a tithing in addition to SSP. Employees are going to talk unfortunately, you can ask them to keep it confidential but you can never really 'silence' someone. Think of I as a positive. It will show the other employees what a kind an caring employer you are. You are not setting precedent, merely assessing each case on its own circumstances.

 

[Vectis]

Luolou OSP does sand for occupational and normally what is referred to for a tithing in addition to SSP. Employees are going to talk unfortunately, you can ask them to keep it confidential but you can never really 'silence' someone. Think of I as a positive. It will show the other employees what a kind an caring employer you are. You are not setting precedent, merely assessing each case on its own circumstances.

If you start making discretionary payments to cover staff sickness you will be opening a can of worms. The next person who is off sick will assume they will get the discretionary payment too and, if they don't get it, you'll have dissatisfied staff and, possibly, a claim for discrimination against you.

 

[Steve Sellers]

You are right in some ways Fizix, however this policy was put in place years ago because we were being taken advantage of - people were only ever 'ill' on Fridays or Mondays. I appreciate your comments.

The bonus system Graeme is worth thinking about as well.

I suppose I already knew I didn't want to pay him only SSP, just needed someone to reinforce it.so Steve, I am going to go with your suggestion. Just one thing, the employees are all good mates and I am pretty sure that this will come up in their chats. I would prefer it not to be public knowledge ( We withheld a days pay recently from one of the others as is the policy) is there a way I can prevent the person I make this 'discretionary ' payment to from discussing I with his colleagues?

Oh, and you refer to OSP not SSP. Does that stand for occupational, so just another term for SSP?

Luolou

You can have a contractual clause that means they are not allowed to discuss such things. Enforcement is impossible though.

OSP, yes - occupational. That's contractual Sick Pay rather than statutory. It's above and beyod the legal minimum requirement.

 

[GradwellDotCom]

You might like to introduce an incentive scheme for good annual attendance. Say (for example) £300 for every employee who completes a year without a day off. Needs polishing but that the gist of it.

In this instance, you would not pay for the sick days, but you could say that the employee would not lose the bonus. Just gives you more flexibility.

We have a similar policy - All members of staff that go 3 months without a day off sick get a half day of holiday added to their holiday entitlement. Seems to be working well so far.

 

[Steve Sellers]

We have a similar policy - All members of staff that go 3 months without a day off sick get a half day of holiday added to their holiday entitlement. Seems to be working well so far.

The problem with that suggestion is that it is not relevant to the OP's problem. This employee is genuinely ill and simply cannot come in. The OP wants to reward that member of staff for their commitment by paying them whilst on sick. The bonus wouldn't be relevant to this.

It is generally a positive position to hold going forward, but will be of no assistance to the sick employee, who the OP has very kindly taken pity upon.

 

[Luolou]

Thank you all for you input. much appreciated. We took Steve's advice (cheers Steve) decided on a figure we were comfortable with and made a discretionary payment for which he was grateful. We did ask the employee to keep our decision private and he assured me he would.

So i came home thinking I had done my good deed for the day,then I read the comment from Vectis regarding potential for being sued for discrimination against the others........If that is the case then honestly, I despair!

 

[Steve Sellers]

He's wrong LouLou.

If you were doing it all the time and only gave it to the men, or only to white people then, yes, you would leave yourself open. You have nothing to worry about.

 

[Luolou]

Well that's a relief, thanks for the reassurance Steve.

Thankfully this situation doesn't arise very often...