Shameful seo companies

[Davidc316]

Recently somebody posted a thread about shameful conduct by dodgy seo companies. At the time I disagreed with the original poster and took the viewpoint that it would be a negative response to go after those kinds of companies. In other words, I felt that we should just ignore those companies and move on.

Now I've changed my mind.

Last night I received a very lengthy email from one of these dodgy seo companies. This email was extremely well written and it attempted to offer some absolute concrete flaws with my website (to do with page rank, inbound links and so on). Furthermore, the sender of the email wouldn't say what the name of his or her company was - only that they had offices in the UK, the USA, Australia and (surprize surprize) India.

As it happens, my site is at the top of Google for a rather prestigeous keyphrase. I have tonnes of good links. I've also ran seo software through my site which gives it a structure score of 100%. In short, what this person was saying was rubbish.

Like others in this forum, I can spot the technical inaccuracies that these people are spouting a mile away. However, I'm not sure that my clients could. Furthermore, I'm concerned that their emails and marketing strategies are becoming far more sophisticated and aggressive with each passing day.

Now, I don't think there's anything wrong with active marketing. Clearly, people have a right to approach me or my clients if they have a genuine service to sell. However, what is going on now is an out and out scam. Furthermore, I don't like the way that they blatantly slag websites that they're going after. I don't do business like that and I'm sure you don't either.

So, I have decided that I'd like to go after these people. Frankly, I want to hurt them.

I've came to the conclusion that the best way of really hurting these scamming companies is to launch a website that lists every one of them and explains why they are scamming scumbags. When potential clients search for those companies on Google, I'd like some kind of exposing hall of shame website to come up in the top three results.

I believe that this would be legal and is technically easy to achieve. However, I can't do this alone. So, I have a proposition.

Would anyone here by interested in joining me in building a website that exposes these faceless scam artists once and for all? I have a server and I can provide free hosting the site but I need a hand putting it all together. If we joined forces then I think we could really make this happen. I'd also be happy for anyone who helps out to have their name published/advertised in a positive manner on the website, if they would like that.

 

[Davidc316]

Actually, forget this. I'm leaving the forum. Cheers.

 

[directmarketingadvice]

As it happens, my site is at the top of Google for a rather prestigeous keyphrase. I have tonnes of good links. I've also ran seo software through my site which gives it a structure score of 100%. In short, what this person was saying was rubbish.

Surely if someone has SEO rankings, they know they have SEO rankings?

Steve

 

[Davidc316]

Well, of course.

 

[S-Marketing]

Well, of course.

So are we discussing this or are you leaving the forum? I'm confused

 

[harryboon]

Actually, forget this. I'm leaving the forum. Cheers.

Why ????
:|

 

[Annoying Donkey]

Well I'd support the concept, but just 7 minutes to change his mind... doesn't bode well for any commitment to his project

I reckon the forum should have a thumbs down icon similar to the thanks button. If someone gets too many they're auto banned

 

[mattsaw]

 

[amarath]

This has got to be the funniest thread ive read in ages!

A guy comes along, has a rant - then turns around and walks away. Genius.

David - if you do decide to come back and fight crime, Id be interested in your cause

 

[Ali-v-8]

Please don't encourage him.
Although this idea was a good one, we all agreed that there was no way to properly monitor it.

This has got to be the funniest thread ive read in ages!

A guy comes along, has a rant - then turns around and walks away. Genius.

David - if you do decide to come back and fight crime, Id be interested in your cause

 

[directmarketingadvice]

Well, of course.

In which case, the only people likely to "fall for" their statement about poor rankings are the people for whom it is true.

Steve

 

[Davidc316]

Steve,

The site in question is first on Google for "website maintenance". Now, I can see that and I'm happy with that.

What I'm saying is this:

The email I received last night made a range of claims about my website. Some of these claims were technical in their nature. For example, the person said:

...Your site has 1 Yahoo back link, this can be improved further.

If you can stomach more bad news about what your site needs, and are curious to know what our working together would involve, then I would be glad to provide you with further detailed analysis

Now, regardless of what my ranking is, that technical statement is false. And what I was attempting to say today was that statements of this nature might catch out someone who is not seo savy.

 

[OldWelshGuy]

We tried this many years ago, when we set up SEMPO with the backing and funding of Google. We couldn't agree who or how to police it, we simply couldn't because there were differences of opinion, so we ended up with a best practice organisation, but again there were disagreements over that!

Now if a bunch of people who are at the top of their field couldn't agree, what chance will the courts have? because make no bones about this, it WILL end in court cases for defamation and libel.

 

[zigojacko]

"if you can stomach more bad news about what your site needs"...

What a cheek! Haha

Whilst your idea is sound and I would like to think that something should be done about these companies, the realism is, I don't think you can. There is no way you can get this list/website of naming and shaming / dodgy SEO companies in the faces of every website owner out there unless it is run by some sort of governing authority.

The fact is, these companies are being set up by the thousand nearly every week by the looks of it, the majority are operating from India, Bangladesh and Pakistan. Even by getting them blacklisted on a website for all to see is only likely to cause them to set up another one. They have millions of people in their country all at their disposal ready and waiting to work for 10p per day... You just can't tackle that. Not really.

You may get great exposure of this idea, but for the non tech savvy user or those that can't tell a phishing email from a legitimate email or those that are wowed with false claims via cold calling... The only time these business/website owners complain, (more often than not) is when it's too late and they have already become victim to a scam or signed up to an SEO company that has as much knowledge of SEO as cleaning toilets.

 

[JElder]

it WILL end in court cases for defamation and libel.

I was going to say that there would like be at least threats of legal action. Hosting it yourself would make it harder for them to bully you off, but if there is enough money involved, they may well go legal.

It's a nice idea, but I thing a better thing would be a well constructed site that informs people what SEO can and can't do, what to look for in a reputable company (and in a disreputable one!) and how to choose a SEO company.

If the site became important enough, you could start a vetting/accreditation scheme.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

IT'S IMPOSSIBLE

How can you tell the difference in one SEO company and another, just by number of posts on a forum, Fancy web site, Page one on Google, all are rubbish at doing the job

SEO is whatever you want it to be, some people want to change the site first, others the backlinks, others something else, none are wrong in themselves but totaly hide the skills of the good professional and the crap con man who just wants three months money from you before you realise it's a crap service

Realistically it's about time Google started SEO courses longer than a couple of days to give a basic certificate that the people know the basics,

All professions have to start somewhere and it's about time SEO had a association where by miss behaving members were chucked out and good companies advertised as such

 

[mobyme]

All professions have to start somewhere and it's about time SEO had a association where by miss behaving members were chucked out and good companies advertised as such

Can we have secret handshakes and wear little aprons.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

By the size of some SEO ego's they might need a much bigger apron than others or is that just willy waving

 

[Annoying Donkey]

Can we have secret handshakes and wear little aprons.

I thought some on here already do...

 

[Davidc316]

A few years ago a previous client of mine was called a rude b###### by somebody on a forum, just like this one.

Today, many years later, when you search for my ex client on Google, the top three results always have "Mr X - rude b######" appearing right alongside his own website.

The effects that this has on his reputation and moral must be devastating. Everyone who searches for this person on Google now gets presented with a golden opportunity to read why he's a rude b######.

If we built a website like the one I'm describing then I think it would really strike a blow against these unethical seo companies. Indeed, I think we could cause more harm to these scammers than any court ever could. Sure, there are issues about how it would be policed. For what it's worth, my own approach would be to give every single person an opportunity to respond to whatever accusations have been posted against them. I'd even be happy to let them publish their response straight onto the website, unedited. If they appear to be either innocent of any wrong doing or they pledge to change their practices then we could take them off of our list.

The really nice thing about this website is that if would give you a rock to stand upon when these people approach your clients (which they will). So, if your client says to you 'Hey, I was approached by bla bla bla and they said bla bla bla' then you could just direct your clients to the blacklist and that would be the end of it. Let's all be very clear about this- these seo scammers are getting more aggressive and more sophisticated every day. Their English is flawless. They know how to write well and their marketing is being done by human beings- not machines. They've even started using UK based phone numbers. These people pride themselves on working 24/7. If you are an seo professional then I guarantee that these people will approach your clients and they will do everything they can to destroy everything you've worked for.

So, rather than a website with a list of affiliate seo people, my focus would be on the black list. I'm not sure if that's been tried before. Although the focus would be on the blacklist, those people who got on board and helped out with this project would be able to promote their services in a positive light. Hopefully that would give people an incentive to get involved.

If you're an seo expert or you have a genuine seo company then you would have nothing to fear from this project. The people I'm going after are large, faceless multinational scamming organisations who operate sweat shops in India and aggressively promote their business in a deeply unethical manner. I'm not going after UK based entrepreneurs who appear to be making a genuine effort to run a wholesome business.

I've noticed that the domain name www.seoblacklist.org is available. If seven or eight of us joined forces then we could have this live and working within the next two weeks. Maybe there's some life in this idea after all.

 

[OldWelshGuy]

you will get sued, i girantee you you will get C&D mails, you will hprobably then have your site taken down by the hosting company when THEY get a C&D letter.

These scammers earn LOTS of money, so they will pay to get you taken out legally or otherwise.

Honestly I have been there with the bounced cheque website, but good luck with it.

Read the laws of libel and defamation.

 

[MASSEY]

It's a stupid idea,

most people who get scammed reveal it on forums and it hits front page, why make a site when people can just use existing ones

 

[Davidc316]

Well, maybe you're right. Tell you what though, I'm seriously thinking about requesting a free seo report from them. They assure me that it takes several hours to prepare.

I'd love to see what they have to say.

Below is the entire email that they sent, for anyone who is interested. I've blocked out my company name and I should also add that I'm not currently doing any PPC advertising whatsoever.

Check out how well written and persuasive their email is! These people are most definitely skilled at writing marketing emails.

Full Name: San SEO
Email Address: withheld (it was a gmail email address)

Message: Dear Head of Business Development at BLANKITY-BLANK.co.uk,

Were you aware that you are paying every time your online marketing advertisement is clicked? It hurts! I know, as many of our clients have shared this frustration when I first talked to them about how to drive more quality prospects to their sites - without having to constantly pay for every click.

I thought you might like to know some of the reasons why you are not getting more organic (FREE) search engine traffic for BLANKITY-BLANK.co.uk

1. Your home page rank is 2, this can be improved further.
2. Open directory listing is not available.
3. Your site has 1 Yahoo back link, this can be improved further.

If you can stomach more bad news about what your site needs, and are curious to know what our working together would involve, then I would be glad to provide you with further detailed analysis in the form of a SEARCH ENGINE OPTIMIZATION (SEO) SITE REPORT - FREE OF CHARGE. I would first need to know that you are serious about using our services, as the report would involve several hours of our research.

To brief you about the company, we are an ISO 9001 certified team of over 500 SEO specialists in the USA, UK, Australia and India and would like to talk with you about how you should be winning new business from the search engines, without paying advertisers over and over again for it.

SEO is not instantaneous, it is not free, but it is the only sensible internet marketing choice. Your return on investment (ROI) after 6 months of SEO will be at least 3 times that of paid advertisements, and many times greater than our cost. In fact, we guarantee that in the first month of our work you will see an improvement in ranking, link popularity and traffic or we'll work for free until you do! Our clients' consistently tell us that their customers find them because they are at the top of Google. Being on the top left of Google (#1- #5 Organic positions) is the best thing you can do for your company's website traffic and online reputation.

Ironically, It’s very likely that had you spent your last 6 months of online marketing dollars on SEO instead of paid advertising that you would have 3 times or greater the traffic today and not need the paid advertising at all.

Fortunately you can still start today and begin getting that traffic in just a few weeks. We look forward to discussing our SEO plans with you.

Sounds interesting? Feel free to email us or alternatively you can provide your best time and phone number to call you.

Best Regards,

San

US: (206) XXX-XXXX
UK: 020 XXX XXXX
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PS1: This is onetime email and we won’t contact you if you don’t respond to this email. You may also ask us for “REMOVE”.
PS2: We found your site from online advertisements but did not click the Ad to visit.
PS3: We work 24 hours a day and 7 days a week. So we will send more details on “our company profile”, “client references”, “case studies”, “why you should choose us?”, “price list”, “guarantee” etc. upon getting positive response from you.

 

[Davidc316]

Ok, so there were a few stupid typos and grammatical errors but by scamming standards I'd say that was a very well written email.

 

[omnivore]

seems like a lot of effort to just make yourself more angry
and attract flack back to yourself

also it's a big distraction from your own business which is surely the most important thing you should be working on in this climate

i would think that by focussing on giving your existing clients a great service and making sure they know enough to tell what an seo scam is would be all you usefully need to do about iffy seo operators

i don't see any of the top uk seo companies lobbying much to thwart such scammers, i guess they are foccussing on growing their businesses

 

[Mystro]

Ok, so there were a few stupid typos and grammatical errors but by scamming standards I'd say that was a very well written email.

TBH not a lot you can do, other than get them to do the report and then keeps stringing them along, they waste your time you waste theirs...

You will never police a website naming and shaming, that alone will take a lot of effort and unless you Seo'd it who would find it or even know its there..

Best to move on ignore it shameful people in all professions ask the builders... and the plumbers oh and those mechanic's, you can even ask marketing people .... get my drift, all the industrys have them, its a shame they are around but unfortunatly they are... even the FA are scamming us telling us we have a chance of winning the world cup... where do you stop

Ignore i say

Paul

 

[directmarketingadvice]

Ok, so there were a few stupid typos and grammatical errors but by scamming standards I'd say that was a very well written email.

You're assuming they are scammers. Why? Maybe they actually do the SEO.

Steve

PS They're almost certainly spammers, but that's not the same as "scammers".

 

[wdltd]

I think it would be unfair to label any company as scammers based purely on their marketing tactics. Sending unsolicited mail is unsavoury, but it doesn't actually mean that they won't do the work effectively.

I'm just as concerned as you are that my clients will be taken in by SEO companies who are interested in a fast buck, but the only way to stop that happening is to educate them about what to look out for; and either offer an ethical SEO service yourself, or find a trusted partner that you can recommend.

 

[RadiusBPO]

You said that this company didn't mention their name, yet you want to have a directory of blacklisted SEO companies?

 

[Ewan Kennedy]

I think the principle of naming and shaming is a good one. However, the process of pinning responsibility on wrongdoers is invalidated if the "namer" does not also accept total responsibility for validating the criticisms they level and that is no easy task. Cheap shots are, well, ... cheap.

I am an SEO specialist and receive regular emails, usually from people in India, telling me how their link building skills will get me to the top of Google.

I ignore them. It's not worth spending the time answering them. Nearly all my clients have received plenty emails like these and they too just ignore them.

I think you have to allow people to take responsibility for making their own decisions. It is a case of buyer beware.

I'd rather devote my energies to doing the right thing rather than stopping others doing the wrong thing. That's their problem.

 

[FLAUK]

I got the same email today.

Said open directory listing not available when the site in question is listed under 2 categories in dmoz. Also said it has 2 Yahoo backlinks whatever that means.

Spent about 1 minute in my inbox before I hit delete. Why waste your time trying to name and shame these kind of companies? They use a gmail email address so could never be pinned down and can change name overnight if need be.

Spend your time improving your site. Only a sucker would fall for this kind of scam anyway.

 

[MASSEY]

It says they are iso9001 you could get them on that if they are not registered.

But iso seem to be giving that label to anyone these days.

 

[mobyme]

Why do people let this sort of thing wind them up so.

Have you ever lost a client to these spammers/scammers because I never have?

To the contrary; they have provided me with an ongoing supply of contrite and compliant clients that have been taken in once and now have no intention of going with anybody outside the UK ever again.

Having been bitten once, they no longer buy into all the ludicrous claims and ridiculously cheap prices; instead they are looking for an seo who they can meet face to face who can produce references and testimonials from previous clients.

In some ways I think they are actually helpful.

 

[FLAUK]

Got another email from these guys today for a different site, this one had the following analysis:

1. Your home page rank is 4, this can be improved further.
2. Your site has 943 Yahoo back links, this can be improved further.

I am going to request a free of charge site report to waste some of their time.

 

[bdw]

I posted the original thread on this that Davidc316 mentioned in the first post. I tried to stay out of this one because I was ridiculed by some folks in here for raising the issue before but here goes!

Spend your time improving your site. Only a sucker would fall for this kind of scam anyway.

I have to say that I totally disagree with this assumption because I have first hand experience that suggests that it is wrong. People fall for approaches like this everyday. I had a client last week who called me to discuss one of these emails. He sent it to me. I checked it out and then spent about 25 minutes on the phone talking to him about this and SEO in general. All in all I wasted about an hour of my time on this (he does not have a support contract with me) but this was going to cost him £2K to £3K per annum (more than he has paid me in three years of association).

The situation I describe is not unusual. I get this on a semi regular basis from my clients and they are all clever people running successful small businesses. I can assure you they are not suckers but they fall for this because these people get away with making false promises and telling lies that most people cannot identify.

Just dismissing them is not the answer. They should be held accountable by someone for their practises. These are not 419 scammers. These are identifiable people who could easily be taken to task by a proper authority. All I was doing in my previous post was asking if anyone knew if there was such an authority.
.
.

 

[Ewan Kennedy]

@ BDW - I agree.

Just because somebody is taken in by them does not make them a sucker. It's a complex issue and the factors required to be considered before selecting an SEO are not straightforward.

I have some content that was designed to help the layman make this decision http://www.adjuice.co.uk/seo-selection.html

It makes me laugh how many SEO companies are offering services who can't SEO their own site. I saw one the other day, making promises to acquire 2,400 back links with a PageRank between 0 and 7 for a fixed price of under £200. Yet when I checked their own back links, they did not have a single link with a PageRank of 1 or above. How on earth does an uninformed buyer spot a whopping great lie like that?

I have used a great site called Checkatrade ( http://www.checkatrade.com/ ) several times recently when engaging tradesmen to do work on my house or garden. Eventually, there will be nowhere for rogue traders to hide. Everyone will get used to Checkatrade and if you aren't registered with good references, your work will dry up.

If the need is there in the SEO sector, eventually somebody will fill that need, maybe Davidc316, but it's not a task for the faint-hearted.

 

[FLAUK]

We must have different definitions of what a sucker is. I was referring to the email received by the original poster, which ticked the following boxes:

a) Spam email
b) No company name
c) Gmail email address
d) 2/3 points raised in their 'analysis' are incorrect (they get the page rank right at least)
e) Non working telephone numbers
f) No company address

This comes pretty close to a 419 scam.

What's your clients email address? I know a guy that needs to deposit $400,000,000.00 into a UK bank account and he might be able to help him out.

 

[zigojacko]

It makes me laugh how many SEO companies are offering services who can't SEO their own site. I saw one the other day, making promises to acquire 2,400 back links with a PageRank between 0 and 7 for a fixed price of under £200. Yet when I checked their own back links, they did not have a single link with a PageRank of 1 or above. How on earth does an uninformed buyer spot a whopping great lie like that?

I don't necessarily agree this is a fair assumption to make, you should be looking at the companies clients websites, performance and results. Not their own. This is where their time should be spent.

You should never pay attention to the TBPR anyway, what you see isn't what their PR actually is, PR is constantly changing but the visible PR is only updated around 4 times per year.

 

[bdw]

I don't necessarily agree this is a fair assumption to make, you should be looking at the companies clients websites, performance and results. Not their own. This is where their time should be spent.

Isn't this a bit like employing a builder who is living in a mobile home? Or perhaps a website design company whose own website was built by an amateur. If they do point you to any of their client's websites you can be sure that they will be doing well but that does not prove that they were solely responsible for putting them there.

Surely SEO companies who persistently spam people to look for business give the game away. If you are as good at SEO as most of them claim to be then your own website should be performing well. My logic would suggest that there is absolutely no excuse for it to be anything other than a shining example of the craft and that they would not have to spam people to find business.

I have actually contacted a couple of these scammers to ask why their own websites don't perform and their answers are always worth a chortle.

Regarding toolbar PR, we should all know where we stand on this but most established sites that perform well have at least some PR. It is a valid indicator if not an actual measure.

 

[directmarketingadvice]

Surely SEO companies who persistently spam people to look for business give the game away. If you are as good at SEO as most of them claim to be then your own website should be performing well.

Isn't that an argument that's constantly attacked by SEOs on this forum?

Steve