Setting up as Painter & Decorator

[Adam67]

I am looking to set up as a Painter & Decorator, have a some past experience. I intend to do a course local to me first as a refresher and to make sure I know all the basics and health & safety etc and only take on work that I feel confident I can do well. Is there much demand for domestic painter and decorators with the present credit crunch. Are there any forums just for Painter & Decorators and what would newbie be capable of earning in the first year, yeah I know a bit of how long is a piece of string question but its useful to have a base point to work from.

Cheers

Adam

 

[Beachcomber]

Best advice I can give is to get yourself some business cards / flyers and visit all of the letting agents in your area.

I started a property maintenance / handyman business only 4 weeks ago and have been working solid ever since with work from landlords / agents - definatly the place to start.

 

[Adam67]

Thanks for the reply Beachcomber. Did you have much experience before you started up and did the Letting Agents etc ask for any references or photo portfolios of work completed etc?

 

[Hector]

Hi Adam

All the best with your business. In terms of forums, a guy i know runs constructionforums.co.uk - not sure if there is anything on there for painting and decorating but may be worth checking out

Thanks
Matt

 

[SFD]

Thanks for the reply Beachcomber. Did you have much experience before you started up and did the Letting Agents etc ask for any references or photo portfolios of work completed etc?

My Dad is a decorator, works by himself and is doing fine at the moment.

You'll find with letting agents they just want cream walls and white woodwork which I doubt they would want to see a portfolio for. They would much prefer an envelope of cash each month as a 'thank you'

When you say you'll only take on jobs you are comfortable with do you have in mind what jobs you wouldn't be able to do?

How do you plan on advertising?

 

[Adam67]

Thanks Hector I'll check them out.

SFD, When you say there'll be happy with an envelope full of cash, do you mean as a backhander for getting the work in the first place!! I have had a little experience with Letting Agents and my concern with them is that they do not pay on time, or anything like on time. For the moment I would want to stay clear wallpapering and just stick to painting. Thanks for both your replies.

 

[Adam67]

Sorry SFD, forgot to answer about marketing, I was thinking advert in local parish mags, post cards in newsagents and post office windows, letters to Letting Agents and general door to door leaflets.

 

[SFD]

My question about advertising was because it can be quite easy to test how much work is about.

Put an advert in the mag, post up your postcards and see what response you get.

If you get no response then you can decide if you want to try something else without having paid out too much money.

If you can't wallpaper then you may struggle. A lot of people will want some kind of papering done, even if it is just a few drops down a chimney breast. It may be easier to learn to paper than turn away the people who do respond to your advertising.

I'm all for people starting out on their own but I think you should be able to wallpaper as a minimum requirement if you want to be a decorator.

 

[Hector]

Whilst we're on the subject - my stepbrother who recently finished his gcse's is looking to take up something on the lines of painting & decorating or a similar trade - what courses/training would you recommend for him if he did decide to go down this route? any advice would be useful as im afraid i know nothing about painting and decorating - you should see my painting exploits at home!

 

[Adam67]

Actually the course I am looking at covers wallpapering, its not that I can't do it, I have done it in the past but my method is self-taught and probably not the 'Proper' way. I am looking at the coventrybuildingworkshop who run a range of couses, I am thinking of initially doing the Painting and Decorating but might also progress onto bathroom and kitchen fitting, tiling so I can specialise in these areas. Wanting to do a bit of research and get some feedback first to see if there is demand for these services at the moment before taking the plunge.

 

[streetslocal]

Are there any forums just for Painter & Decorators

Might help:

http://tradesmensnetwork.com

 

[Beachcomber]

Thanks for the reply Beachcomber. Did you have much experience before you started up and did the Letting Agents etc ask for any references or photo portfolios of work completed etc?

I have been a data cable installer and Monumental mason in the past along with a fair bit of DIY experience so I feel pretty confident with most tasks.

I have not been asked for references / portfolios at all - most are just looking for someone who will actually turn up and do the job when promised!

Might be worth looking around here:
http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/forum1/index.php

Lots of good info and help.

 

[G. Lasagne]

Thanks Hector I'll check them out.

SFD, When you say there'll be happy with an envelope full of cash, do you mean as a backhander for getting the work in the first place!! I have had a little experience with Letting Agents and my concern with them is that they do not pay on time, or anything like on time. For the moment I would want to stay clear wallpapering and just stick to painting. Thanks for both your replies.

They definately do not pay on time, the average waiting time to expect would be 40-180 days for your money (im not joking).
In my experience the smaller the letting agent the quicker you get paid.

You put your invoice in - they send it to landlord - landlord agrees and pays.

They are a good start , but are a huge amount of hassle, they are notoriously run badly, and will often lose your invoives, forget to ring you to tell you not to go to a job, lose keys to a property etc etc, all of which costs you money, they dont care however as if you kick up a fuss they will just threaten to find someone else.

Like i said they are good for a starting platform, but if you have expansion/growth plans then dont base your business on letting agent work.

Try

Online/website (the best)
targeted flyers (private blocks of retirement homes, wealthy areas etc)
local newspapers
the list goes on, keep asking questions on the forum you will learn loads.

 

[CKG]

They definately do not pay on time, the average waiting time to expect would be 40-180 days for your money (im not joking).
In my experience the smaller the letting agent the quicker you get paid.

You put your invoice in - they send it to landlord - landlord agrees and pays.

They are a good start , but are a huge amount of hassle, they are notoriously run badly, and will often lose your invoives, forget to ring you to tell you not to go to a job, lose keys to a property etc etc, all of which costs you money, they dont care however as if you kick up a fuss they will just threaten to find someone else.

Like i said they are good for a starting platform, but if you have expansion/growth plans then dont base your business on letting agent work.

Ditto.

Plus you have to deal with some right pond life punters who live in complete **** pits. It's hard to do a good job sometimes - and the money is gash.

If it was me starting as a painter and decorator i'd go staright to the top of the tree and head for the streets where all the rich people in your neighbourhood live and drum up business in that area.

Well off people mix with other well off people and generally have more influence and better contacts and refferals than Mr average. Sounds crass but it is how it is.

I'd learn to decorate before I did anything like that though as doing a spot on job is a prerequisite to them championiong you to thier pals.

 

[JamesCartwright]

Best advice I can give is to get yourself some business cards / flyers and visit all of the letting agents in your area.

I started a property maintenance / handyman business only 4 weeks ago and have been working solid ever since with work from landlords / agents - definatly the place to start.

That's a very good idea! It may be worth considering some advertising on Google too under keywords like 'house painter in devon' (or wherever you are based). You will need a website though - do you have one?

I've used Google ads a lot and they are very effective if you know how to do it right. If you need some help - I can point you in the right direction.

I wish you the best of success with your business!

James.

 

[lockie]

Letting agents = nightmare. They are unregulated and dissappear at the drop of a hat if things go bad,take ages to pay and expect everything for peanuts.If you find a goodun look after them,i now only do work for one who has been around for years and even hes now trying to pay late grrr.

 

[estwig]

I have not been asked for references / portfolios at all - most are just looking for someone who will actually turn up and do the job when promised!

You might not have been asked for references or a portfolio, because if you don't show a portfolio, people will assume you don't have one. That only leaves you one way to win the work, on price.

 

[Beachcomber]

With regard to Letting agents being tardy payers - although I am sure there are dodgy ones out there I think it may help if you understand how their side of the business often works.

I have limited experience in this area but so far what I have discovered is that any repair work undertaken is usually paid for out of the rental income rather than direct from the landlord - so if you do some work on the 10th and the rent isn't due in until the 25th you will have to wait until then to get paid - the agent gets the rent then pays your invoice with it.

Just like any other business - the agent will not have a pot of cash sitting about in case anyone needs repairs doing.

I wish you the best of success with your business!

Thank you!

You might not have been asked for references or a portfolio, because if you don't show a portfolio, people will assume you don't have one. That only leaves you one way to win the work, on price.

Isn't that what clinches the deal 95% of the time anyway?
Reputation is a huge bonus but when you are dealing with agents / landlords rather than homeowners there can be differing priorities.

 

[hendyphilhendy]

Try doing some business networking in your local area. It is often surprising how few tradesmen take advantage of this. The ones that do are often the most successful.

Look out for 4Networking, BNI and other local groups to get involved with.

 

[maxine]

Agree with the comment about learning to wallpaper as a minimum as otherwise you are a painter not painter and decorator

Letting agents and property/maintenance care agents all a right pain in the backside and given half a chance they will run up a debt with you before moving onto the next sucker so set a firm credit limit and stick to it no matter what

Get authorisation in writing either as email or purchase order from the letting agent as it should speed up the authorisation process and remember to put the tenant's name and address on your invoice and attach a copy of the original email or purchase order (just to get a couple of early excuses out of the way). If you are going to go after work with letting agents or property maintenance agencies then also get something in your terms and conditions on fees and interest for late payments if you want to charge more than the statutory amount and also get a cancellation fee in there for when tenants are not in or the appointment hasn't been communicated or kept. We deal mostly with them by fax so you might have to get one of these if you haven't got one already as they may also ask you to get a job sheet signed by the tenant or customer and this can help to resolve non payment queries later.

CKG is right though I reckon to advise you to target a different type of customer and apart from just targetting the well off, also target those less able to do these sorts of things for themselves ie; busy people, elderly people etc.

Another target for you is plasterers as we often give out names of painters if customers ask or we will quote and take the work on then sub out to a painter provided we may just a little bit on top

Good luck

 

[estwig]

Isn't that what clinches the deal 95% of the time anyway?
Reputation is a huge bonus but when you are dealing with agents / landlords rather than homeowners there can be differing priorities.

Price only clinches the deal 95% of the time, if you are of the mindset, that price is the only thing the customer is concerned about. Then you will nearly always be the cheapest.

Estate agents only care about price, homeowners will rarely go with the cheapest price, value for money, reputation, workmanship, security, these are the things homeowners care about.


Start building yourself a portfolio and don't be frightened to ask for written letters of recommendation.

Good luck.

 

[Burford Secretarial]

Hi,

My uncle started his property maintenance business about 18 months ago and he always has a lot of work. I helped him create some business cards to get him started and word of mouth has been the best advertising he has done.

The people he has completed work for are always happy to recommend him to their friends/associates.

One piece of advice I would give to you is to take photographs of completed works as well as testimonials and when you can afford to get a website where you can upload the pictures and testimonials. That way people can see your work and see how happy your clients are.

 

[officemunkey]

If you are looking for some competitive prices on your decorating supplies you may want to try http://www.decoratingwarehouse.co.uk give them a call and ask about their trade prices you may be suprised at how competitive their prices are.

 

[Serenna82]

How do you plan on advertising?

Hi Adam,

Try advertising locally first as they are much cheaper - newspapers, supermarkets, door to door leaflets - I just moved home and was happy to give our local decorator a go. Reasonable price and quality is a MUST! Good luck!