setting up a soft play centre/indoor play

[silvieuk]

we are looking at setting one of these up. but not much 2nd hand stuff about, to keep the costs down. seen a few nice structures from china, but not sure about it as they dont take credit card as payment

Hi Emma,

I've just replied to your private message about this with my thoughts & concerns.

Also, think to your self.... why will they not take credit card payment ??

(Credit cards do offer allot of protection to the consumer)

I always use my credit cards while abroad tbh. ;-)

 

[katekat]

I am thinking of starting a soft play business overseas (Caribbean). The main benefit of such busines is no competition and huge potential (small island with over 1 mln population, little or no facilities for children and many people willling to spend money). Of course the set up cost will be probably higher due to equipment shipping cost and customs charges, that's why I am thinking of buying the equipment outside UK, most likely USA or Canada. I found a really great website which is usedamusmentequipment dot com with some great prices there (12000 US for two level soft play park with 15 activities???!).
My question is if buying second hand equipment which will be obviously dismantled is a risk of not being able to put it back together without a professional assistance? As I said, there is no competition there so can't hope for any local people to have knowledge on how to put it up. Any idea how difficult it is to build and install such equipment? Is the profesianal required or you could do with some DIY?

Many thanks.

Kate

 

[emmamed]

I am thinking of starting a soft play business overseas (Caribbean). The main benefit of such busines is no competition and huge potential (small island with over 1 mln population, little or no facilities for children and many people willling to spend money). Of course the set up cost will be probably higher due to equipment shipping cost and customs charges, that's why I am thinking of buying the equipment outside UK, most likely USA or Canada. I found a really great website which is usedamusmentequipment dot com with some great prices there (12000 US for two level soft play park with 15 activities???!).
My question is if buying second hand equipment which will be obviously dismantled is a risk of not being able to put it back together without a professional assistance? As I said, there is no competition there so can't hope for any local people to have knowledge on how to put it up. Any idea how difficult it is to build and install such equipment? Is the profesianal required or you could do with some DIY?

Many thanks.

Kate

Hi Kate
I wouldnt say that area would give you much return, most people living in those islands are low earners and do not earn enough to eat let alone pay for a play area.

 

[katekat]

I wouldn't say so, my husband comes from this country and it is the wealthiest country in Carribean, with an unemployment of just 5.8%. I know how much ordinary people pay for a very poor quality entertainment for children (if you see the zoo, the 'aquapark' or a simple swimming lessons in a private swimming pool, you wouldn't probably know if to laugh or cry) and the price they are paying does not match the quality of service at all. But still, the these places are operating and have many customers all your round.
If they have a good quality for an affordable price (soft plays in UK are very affordable for customers but still making a profit somehow), there would be a lot of interest.
My mother in law can make a 100 pound a day profit just by selling home made fast food from a simple stall next to her house. and everybody can afford to spend 25 punds for a bottle of rum. I think Birthday parties would make the biggest profit as people like to 'show off' and having a big bash for their children spending hundereds. So why not giving it a try, as long as you can actually phisically do it (shipping, installing getting the building prepared etc.)

 

[playcentreowner]

IMHO an indoor play centre in a hot country will struggle to make any money. On initial opening of a centre anywhere the first year will be the best, after that it is a downward chart. The first 3 months, if advertised properly, will give a good steady footfall in any climate. However in the warmer weather very few people want to be in a stuffy building, while paying for the privilege. I spent 360k setting up a play centre and on one very sunny Sunday we had 8 children through the door! This is an extreme example but it does happen. If you want to make proper money at this game don’t do it! If you’re happy with an average income while dealing with a very ungrateful public and frivolous personal injury claims; then it is nice to be your own boss.

One big question you should ask is why has no-one done it in the area before? Research, Research, Research…that is the key!

 

[mkn17]

Hi i was looking at setting up a small 5,000 ft soft play area with a mezzanie floor to provide a nice friendly cafe somewhere local mums could meet up. There is nowhere within a 10 mile radius offering such a thing yet many young families !! The property i am looking at is near to town centre but only parking for 8/9 cars. However i was trying to aim at a place people could walk to as oppose to drive and being near to high street the footfall would be quite high. The railway station is also a 100 metres away and is on a local bus route.
I have seen many posts saying set up cost are sometimes in excess of £300,000 however my budget is much lower around 70,000. I would just like to know peoples views on this the lease on the building is £27,000 a year but they are offering a 3 month rent free period. It presently is a class B8 so would need changing to a D2. I was informed i could apply for a pre advice planning which cost £204 and would give me an idea of whether planning would be given. lease is also payable monthly.
I would just appreciate some ideas on how is the best way to purchase the soft play also could this be done on such a budget ?? My market research suggests area wouldhugely benefit from such a place and as i am already a childminder have had good insight. It is just raising enough funds ???

 

[devilmaycry]

Hi i was looking at setting up a small 5,000 ft soft play area with a mezzanie floor to provide a nice friendly cafe somewhere local mums could meet up. There is nowhere within a 10 mile radius offering such a thing yet many young families !! The property i am looking at is near to town centre but only parking for 8/9 cars. However i was trying to aim at a place people could walk to as oppose to drive and being near to high street the footfall would be quite high. The railway station is also a 100 metres away and is on a local bus route.
I have seen many posts saying set up cost are sometimes in excess of £300,000 however my budget is much lower around 70,000. I would just like to know peoples views on this the lease on the building is £27,000 a year but they are offering a 3 month rent free period. It presently is a class B8 so would need changing to a D2. I was informed i could apply for a pre advice planning which cost £204 and would give me an idea of whether planning would be given. lease is also payable monthly.
I would just appreciate some ideas on how is the best way to purchase the soft play also could this be done on such a budget ?? My market research suggests area wouldhugely benefit from such a place and as i am already a childminder have had good insight. It is just raising enough funds ???

I would think that £70,000 is too low. For that you would definitely need second-hand play equipment and kitchen equipment.

I would also say that budget would depend on what condition the building is currently in. Does it already have a mezzanine? B8 planning is storage, so the unit might require a lot of work to turn it into a play centre.

Also, I would always ask for a longer rent free period. You can only get told 'no'.

 

[iArtist]

I'm looking for a complete change of direction and a friend and I are considering setting up an indoor play centre that offers birthday parties, etc. We've seen loads of different ones -many models which we like, but wonder what is the best way to assess what the demand would be. There are two small soft-play cos. close to us. They are both very small and very limited in what they offer, and neither offer good party facilities. Can anyone give me any advice please. Thanks.

The most profitable part of these play areas is the coffee/teas and cakes on sale to mums! Mums will sit and natter for a good three hrs, they need hydrating while their children play and this is where you can make an unexpected income if you accomodate them in all ways that appeal.

 

[devilmaycry]

The most profitable part of these play areas is the coffee/teas and cakes on sale to mums! Mums will sit and natter for a good three hrs, they need hydrating while their children play and this is where you can make an unexpected income if you accomodate them in all ways that appeal.

Actually, the most profitable area is children's parties.

 

[iArtist]

Actually, the most profitable area is children's parties.

Th softplay area near me was only able to host a party one evening a week. Coffees, teas and cakes, etc. can be sold 10am - 6pm every single day including during the parties.

 

[mkn17]

the bulding is in good condition and already has the mezzaine floor which is why i thought it would be ideal ?? Also being smaller overheads are kept lower rather than heating a huge area in quiet times. A good friend is a very experienced catering manager who said equipment can be picked up at huge savings in the present climate as to can goodquality tables and chairs?? My main question then is how best to obtain play equipment i would rather a good quality piece and then add to it as the business goes along rather than poor quality second hand ?? As i said thereare no others in the area at all and the one closest 10 miles away has queues coming out the doors but tis place is huge but run down poor food expensive and dirty ?? Tables never cleaned and as for the toilets !! Nappy bins never changed so smell is awful !! Yet as there is no competition she never has a worry about visitors !!
They have said a possibility of a 6 month rent free but that would depend on length of lease ??
Has anyone been able to set one up for around £70,000??? Also is it best to lease soft play or go through a finance company ??

 

[devilmaycry]

Th softplay area near me was only able to host a party one evening a week. Coffees, teas and cakes, etc. can be sold 10am - 6pm every single day including during the parties.

How many play centres do you own!?

As I own 3.

In relation to the next post asking about leasing equipment through a finance company; I have known people get into trouble using this method as it seriously impacts on your cashflow.

 

[mkn17]

this is what i thought with finance ??? but was unsure if companies who made these offered an option to spread the cost ???

 

[iArtist]

How many play centres do you own!?

As I own 3.

Get over yourself

There are always better ways of doing things, if you aren't aware of the income that parents generate then you're not making the most of the opportunities. Pretty much like most other play centres with inadequate facilities. I used to buy my refreshments in the gym cafe downstairs.

It's very easy to spend £5 - £10 extra on snacks and drinks while the kids play...multiply that by how many parents pass through the place daily.

 

[businessfunding]

In relation to the next post asking about leasing equipment through a finance company; I have known people get into trouble using this method as it seriously impacts on your cashflow.

How does it seriously impact your cashflow? (as against what?)

I agree that you need to use caution in what documantation you sign, but the cashflows of leasing or HP are entirely transparent.

 

[silvieuk]

In relation to the next post asking about leasing equipment through a finance company; I have known people get into trouble using this method as it seriously impacts on your cashflow.

Within my Play centre, I used equipement finance, and worked great. All paid off after 3 years, and now all mine. Was a good source of finance when the banks are saying no. Most companies use equipment finance, be it a slide, car or a new JCB.

But as above, just need to make sure of the paperwork you are signing.

 

[silvieuk]

the bulding is in good condition and already has the mezzaine floor which is why i thought it would be ideal ?? Also being smaller overheads are kept lower rather than heating a huge area in quiet times. A good friend is a very experienced catering manager who said equipment can be picked up at huge savings in the present climate as to can goodquality tables and chairs?? My main question then is how best to obtain play equipment i would rather a good quality piece and then add to it as the business goes along rather than poor quality second hand ?? As i said thereare no others in the area at all and the one closest 10 miles away has queues coming out the doors but tis place is huge but run down poor food expensive and dirty ?? Tables never cleaned and as for the toilets !! Nappy bins never changed so smell is awful !! Yet as there is no competition she never has a worry about visitors !!
They have said a possibility of a 6 month rent free but that would depend on length of lease ??
Has anyone been able to set one up for around £70,000??? Also is it best to lease soft play or go through a finance company ??

Bit hard to say with out all the information, such as building size for a start. You should be aiming to spend 10k per 1000SqFt of the entire building on just play equipment, if you want a decent play centre. (so a 5,000 SqFt warehouse, you should spend £50k on new play equipment).

But even with all the information on hand, the final decision and belief is in your hands. The only person that can make it work is you, and lots of customers on wet rainy days, and even some customers on very hot sunny days. (the lack of rain the last few months has not been fun for any soft play centre, I can assure you).

 

[devilmaycry]

Get over yourself

There are always better ways of doing things, if you aren't aware of the income that parents generate then you're not making the most of the opportunities. Pretty much like most other play centres with inadequate facilities. I used to buy my refreshments in the gym cafe downstairs.

It's very easy to spend £5 - £10 extra on snacks and drinks while the kids play...multiply that by how many parents pass through the place daily.

You need a lesson on the cost prices and margins.

A parties cost price for food is around £15.00. The minimum cost of a party is £80.00!

Whereas, you make around 20p on a bar of chocolate and bottles of coke. Not great!

 

[devilmaycry]

How does it seriously impact your cashflow? (as against what?)

I agree that you need to use caution in what documantation you sign, but the cashflows of leasing or HP are entirely transparent.

Because a lot of the companies wanted short terms for the lending, thus pushing the monthly payment up.

 

[pen2670]

This is something we looked into when researching business ideas, but didn't go ahead with because of the huge start up costs. The only suitable building we could find needed lots of building work and added to the cost of the play equipment we felt it was just too much initial outlay.

During the research we heard lots of horror stories and warnings not to go with the business support and financing packages that many play equipment providers offer as the size of the monthly repayments can effectively cripple the business.

Lots of sad stories of viable Play Centres where the initial owners had gone bust due to this, then been bought out by people who had then been successful. You probably have this covered but definitely check the small print and compare with alternate finance options (then negotiate cash discounts for your equipment).

No idea who are good suppliers, on first glance the PPA seemed a good independant source of help, but I'm sure previous posters who are in the business will be far more clued up than me.

Just do check the figures, lots!

Good Luck
Penny

ps right there with you on smelly nappy bins, ugh.

 

[mkn17]

Many thanks it does seem very daunting the initial outlay but with nothing similar any where in the area it does seem worth the risk but would rather a smaller high quality friendly place than a huge warehouse ?! Maybe when succesful grow and add to it but being centrally located and many local residents the footfall looks good ??

This is something we looked into when researching business ideas, but didn't go ahead with because of the huge start up costs. The only suitable building we could find needed lots of building work and added to the cost of the play equipment we felt it was just too much initial outlay.

During the research we heard lots of horror stories and warnings not to go with the business support and financing packages that many play equipment providers offer as the size of the monthly repayments can effectively cripple the business.

Lots of sad stories of viable Play Centres where the initial owners had gone bust due to this, then been bought out by people who had then been successful. You probably have this covered but definitely check the small print and compare with alternate finance options (then negotiate cash discounts for your equipment).

No idea who are good suppliers, on first glance the PPA seemed a good independant source of help, but I'm sure previous posters who are in the business will be far more clued up than me.

Just do check the figures, lots!

Good Luck
Penny

ps right there with you on smelly nappy bins, ugh.

 

[silvieuk]

Because a lot of the companies wanted short terms for the lending, thus pushing the monthly payment up.

Cash flow is King !!!

 

[iArtist]

You need a lesson on the cost prices and margins.

A parties cost price for food is around £15.00. The minimum cost of a party is £80.00!

Whereas, you make around 20p on a bar of chocolate and bottles of coke. Not great!

Hardly

I was managing an Opticians aged 19yrs, managing a coffee shop aged 23, managing a furniture showroom aged 25, had my own shop aged 26, my own cartridge world franchise aged 32, managed one of the most forward thinking Beacon NHS Health Centres in the UK. Experience of figures, costings and making profit (including for greedy GP's) is not alien to me at all.

Meanwhile...

£80 isn't a lot and is certainly less than 40+ mums spend on tea, drinks and sandwiches for their brood and themselves while at a softplay centre.

The mark up on a cup of tea is much more than 20p. Same re sandwiches.

The entire leisure industry knows the bulk of profit is to be made in consumables, you can either take advantage of that knowledge or continue to ignore it.

http://uk.businessesforsale.com/uk/...ns-Indoor-Adventure-Play-Centre-For-Sale.aspx

"Profitable soft play centre - 72 cover café with Class 3 hot food consent"

 

[devilmaycry]

Hardly

I was managing an Opticians aged 19yrs, managing a coffee shop aged 23, managing a furniture showroom aged 25, had my own shop aged 26, my own cartridge world franchise aged 32, managed one of the most forward thinking Beacon NHS Health Centres in the UK. Experience of figures, costings and making profit (including for greedy GP's) is not alien to me at all.

I believe the adequate condescension would be to tell you to get over yourself.

Also, that cv isn't that impressive, so maybe you have nothing to get over! :|

And yes, you're correct, coffee has a better mark-up than 20p. But you also have the big fat HP or lease payments for the coffee machine to contend with.

But you are wrong about the most profitable areas. Party payments make up about 40% of a play centres turnover. Entrances and cafe sales are about 30% each. But cafe sales make up about 75% of the cost of sales.

It's your choice whether you listen to experience.

Peace out!

 

[devilmaycry]

£80 isn't a lot and is certainly less than 40+ mums spend on tea, drinks and sandwiches for their brood and themselves while at a softplay centre.

And that's the minimum revenue from 1 party!!! If you have 25 kiddies at a party the revenue is £250 and the cost price hardly goes up. And I've done over 30 parties on one weekend over my 3 premises.

My cafes sales didn't even touch that. Let alone the profit!

But I guess you're right, genius!

 

[iArtist]

blah blah blah...

But you are wrong about the most profitable areas. Party payments make up about 40% of a play centres turnover. Entrances and cafe sales are about 30% each. But cafe sales make up about 75% of the cost of sales.

It's your choice whether you listen to experience.

Peace out!

Experience of what... owning softplay centres?

I have yet to go into a play centre that adequately caters for the food and beverage needs of the parents. So as far as I can tell, not many of the owners, franchisees etc. know what they're doing.

I myself always spend £10 plus when I go to these places on food, drinks and snacks ...a visit once or twice a week was the norm when kids were young. I only ever booked one party there though. You do the math.

The money I spent on food/drinks though was with the gym cafe downstairs not the softplay centre upstairs. Now that is an area of income that cenre was not making the most of. They did though sell handmade cards

Now the local open farm I go to has an indoor play centre and they seat perhaps 200 people in one eating area and have two other eating areas besides this and numerous little kiosks dotted about the place as do zoos and other attractions, because they rake it in on thristy, hungry little kiddies and their parents.

Playcentre staff sit about for hrs...doing largely nothing...get them earning their hourly rate serving tea.

 

[devilmaycry]

You're argument is weak and off-point.

Too bad!

 

[businessfunding]

Because a lot of the companies wanted short terms for the lending, thus pushing the monthly payment up.

I must say that after 25 years in the business it is the first time I have ever heard that objection!

Obviously the terms offered will be affected by individual credit ratings; and their relative benefits will relate to what alternatives are available.

Used well, HP or lease are extremely beneficial to cashflow..

 

[devilmaycry]

I must say that after 25 years in the business it is the first time I have ever heard that objection!

Obviously the terms offered will be affected by individual credit ratings; and their relative benefits will relate to what alternatives are available.

Used well, HP or lease are extremely beneficial to cashflow..

Then you didn't use your 25 years wisely enough. :|

Check out Armada, a 'specialist' in providing finance to indoor play centres. Ask them for a quote and see what the terms are. They wouldn't lend for more than 3 years and the interest rate wasn't too attractive. And that is nothing to do with credit rating, etc.

Therefore, if you decided to finance play equipment through them, as opposed to the bank lending over a longer period, you have to make sure that your cashflow won't be affected by higher monthly payments. Granted, the lending will be paid back over a shorter period than a bank loan, but that is immaterial if you're no longer trading as you don't have the cash.

 

[businessfunding]

Then you didn't use your 25 years wisely enough. :|

Check out Armada, a 'specialist' in providing finance to indoor play centres. Ask them for a quote and see what the terms are. They wouldn't lend for more than 3 years and the interest rate wasn't too attractive. And that is nothing to do with credit rating, etc.

Therefore, if you decided to finance play equipment through them, as opposed to the bank lending over a longer period, you have to make sure that your cashflow won't be affected by higher monthly payments. Granted, the lending will be paid back over a shorter period than a bank loan, but that is immaterial if you're no longer trading as you don't have the cash.

From a broker perspective the choice to use Armada is very much to do with credit rating, as there would be a number of more flexible, cheaper options available.

Obviously if the bank are offering a facility better suited to your needs (and without onerous security) it is, by definition the better option, however I haven't noticed banks being terribly keen to lend on any terms lately (In fact they are one of our biggest sources of introduction).

As with any business decision, it is really about understanding & evaluation your options.

 

[straightdrive]

I used to use just SEO for our site and it was making us money, my cousin said to try Tazoo goPublic on top of our SEO marketing. Best thing I find about out sourcing my social marketing is that I don’t have to write any content for articles or twitter. Fella at Tazoo handles its pretty okay and seems to generate a decent amount of sales for us.

But who told you £700 - £800 is industry standard? It sounds much, maybe you could ask for some quotes from UKBF members, I’m sure you will get a better price

Regards

 

[mkn17]

From a broker perspective the choice to use Armada is very much to do with credit rating, as there would be a number of more flexible, cheaper options available.

Obviously if the bank are offering a facility better suited to your needs (and without onerous security) it is, by definition the better option, however I haven't noticed banks being terribly keen to lend on any terms lately (In fact they are one of our biggest sources of introduction).

As with any business decision, it is really about understanding & evaluation your options.

I am waiting to hear back from bank ref funding but as mentioned even with government EFG funding new businesses are not being offered much !! I will be open if fails to exploring over viable options ??

 

[Talay]

I'm a parent, a user of these play places on occasion and I hosted a party for 20 plus kids last year. I also looked at the business model and I think those near me are poorly run. However, I distinctly don't like the subject matter.

Parties are easy for parents as opposed to having it at home. Kids run riot and then get fed. Parents buy a little but from circa £10 a head there must be £7 of profit in it.

Seriously crap food kills parent spending but most are running mom and pop operations and not leveraging the captive potential customers they have. This is what attracted me.

I like the barrier to entry with the high price of equipment. Buying better equipment can set you apart and with a proper cafeteria akin to M&S instore, you should be on a winner. Perhaps I'll revisit the numbers again !

 

[Ghjh]

I'm considering purchasing a play centre, established for 13 years. It's a bit run down and tired and clearly needing some work. Does anyone have a view if it's worth renaming and relaunching the play centre once I've spent some money modernising the business and toys or keep the established name?

 

[Deleted member 138423]

I'm considering purchasing a play centre, established for 13 years. It's a bit run down and tired and clearly needing some work. Does anyone have a view if it's worth renaming and relaunching the play centre once I've spent some money modernising the business and toys or keep the established name?

Out with the old and in with the new!! If it is tired, advertising new ownership and a refurb will relight the interest imo.

 

[Ghjh]

Thanks for your reply. I visited the play centre today and it was packed out so it clearly has a decent reputation! I'm in two minds whether to rename as it does have a very well known name. new signs etc will add to an already expensive refurb!

 

[SmartSenda]

We have several of these play areas near me and I have 2 kids under 3 years old.

For me, these are key points:

• area for under 4's
• during school hours your main customers will be kids under 5
• 1 x free coffee for mum
• annual membership for child minders
• cheap for adults (sometimes I take a non-mum friend with me so we can catch up while the kids play)
• well managed - make sure kids/adults act appropriately. (no 10 yr olds throwing balls at each other in the baby section.. this drives me mad!)
• upsell - drinks, snacks, socks for kids and adults (I always forget to bring mine when I wear sandles!)
• allow local companies to advertise with you i.e. cake makers, entertainers.

Go round and visit some, take some kids with you and speak to the other Mums. It's a good idea and in demand.

 

[bigpmorris]

I have a potential unit ( of 37,000 sq ft!) at a good rate. I have a fantastic brand new play frame and company in waiting for when i am ready.

My concerns are where i budget and how much i budget for certain aspects of a new set up. listed below are my unknowns:

1. how much to set up kitchen
2. how much to set up toilets including disabled
3. how much general building costs are to build these sections of the unit
4. costs of aircon units


in short i have 300k set aside for the frame and revenue earning rides
was hoping that everying else like the above, could be settled within 100k, including everything from tables and chairs to buying a safe etc.

I am very new to this and have a good idea of the money i can make from this as only 1 large 20k sq ft play area and a much smaller one are in the area but the other side of town and out of the way whereas the unit i have seen is off the main roundabout of the city and much more accessible but as you can guess my understanding of numbers initially at this stage is setting me back.

Any help much appreciated.

Thanks

 

[bigpmorris]

Looking at a very early level of starting up soft play.

Have a wicked potential unit at a great price of 37000sg ft. Massive I know but I want a massive wow factor and have scope for expansion outside of the initial soft play limitations....eg evening classes for dance etc etc

My issue is calculating what would e required for certain things:

1. Fabrication of toilets and kitchen rooms and internal fittings as the unit is a bare shell
2. Costs of aircon units to cope with the size

2 very basic things but it's a start of everything, I am at very very early stages but think with the location and scope it could be a huge success,

Ideas?????

 

[richardz]

Hi blue,

The best way to assess demand is to carry out some market research. A simple set of questions that you ask your target customers should be enough. Make sure you ask them what they think of your offer, is it better than the competitions, would they buy it etc.

Once that's done you can move on to the next stage.

I would be inclined to do a further market test (not sure how though) after this because it sounds like you'll need a bit of capital to start up and you want to be pretty confident before risking it.

Happy to exchange some thoughts on how if you like.

Richard Zammit (CEO)