Seo 27hrs

[tomp1986]

Hi guys

Not posted in a Long while hope you are all well and keep doing a great job on here with the advise.

Right I have just had a new site built very happy with it looks the business and has some good content.

The company that has built it have taken a while is a understatement as they are a very busy small business of 5

My site is around 20 pages and most of my keywords target 6 areas and are not excessively competitive ranked top on my old site for most of my key words last year before I stopped the seo big mistake lesson learnt should of kept paying till new site was ready but that's another story

Anyway this new company are saying this package of £550 + vat for 27 hours labour would be a good package for me to hit the ground running

My questions are if they are that busy that my site has taken so long how are they gona fit 27hrs a month in to work on my site

How do I no what times being spent and if it is being a good ROI.
I no seo companies say it don't happen over night and I agree but what stops this company taking my money for 5 months and saying what seo takes time

How do I monitor this and get good value for money

Give me some help guys please

 

[JonathanSEO]

Well it equates to like £25 an hour? So not exactly a bad price. I don't like this pricing model but a lot do it.

It all depends what you are going to get, if you get plenty enquiries and you're site performs well then it's probably value for money.

Is there a contract or is it just month to month?

 

[seoswat]

I agree with what JonathanSEO said, their pricing model seems very strange to me,

to be honest if you are starting from scratch, 27 hours work in the first month is probably too much considering your site only consists of 20 pages.

Do you already know the keywords you want to go after or are they dictating and advising on those?

 

[tomp1986]

Cheers guys

There is a few people who price like this I have seen it a few times

I no the keywords there helping with some extra ones but company being trading 2 years so think I'm not bad at knowing the keywords

It's just trying to have proof they are doing the work they say they are they haven't started yet hopefully next week

Think we will just have to see

 

[seoswat]

just ensure they are fully reporting on their activities and are 100% transparent on their process.

 

[Deleted member 154900]

Can you not ask for an itemized list of what they are doing? they must keep a record of what they are doing, I am assuming that all seo workers keep a spreadsheet or something,

When I had this done on another site I got a list of what they had done, It was very detailed with all the sites used, login details, directory and smm submissions etc,

 

[sodirect]

Old SEO ways are gone; Google made massive changes at Xmas. Now SEO is closely aligned to social presence and social proof. It's not just about backlinks, you have to have the social sharing buttons on your site and Google wants to see that content is fresh, updated, unique, that you have a blog and that people are sharing your content. Buying a number of hours per month is okay as it could be a mix of things being done, for example, buying in articles and loading to your website, sharing your blog updates etc. It's also about registering your brand name on web 2.0 authority sites which now has to be done manually, so I have no problem with the number of hours pricing model, just get them to outline what work they've done for that.

 

[InternetMarketingPlatinum]

Just ask them for a breakdown of what they are doing for that.

 

[tomp1986]

Some good advice there

Hopefully I will get a monthly report looking at our site traffic

And I should see a increase n business

 

[JonathanSEO]

Old SEO ways are gone; Google made massive changes at Xmas. Now SEO is closely aligned to social presence and social proof. It's not just about backlinks, you have to have the social sharing buttons on your site and Google wants to see that content is fresh, updated, unique, that you have a blog and that people are sharing your content. Buying a number of hours per month is okay as it could be a mix of things being done, for example, buying in articles and loading to your website, sharing your blog updates etc. It's also about registering your brand name on web 2.0 authority sites which now has to be done manually, so I have no problem with the number of hours pricing model, just get them to outline what work they've done for that.

As I pointed out in another thread this is not true.

We don't even know what market / industry the original poster is in, so to say share buttons are an essential is bad advice.

SEO and social do work well together, but there's no evidence social sharing impacts rankings or Google is looking specifically for social share buttons on a website.

Also, what do you mean by a Web 2.0 authority site?

 

[InternetMarketingPlatinum]

As I pointed out in another thread this is not true.

We don't even know what market / industry the original poster is in, so to say share buttons are an essential is bad advice.

SEO and social do work well together, but there's no evidence social sharing impacts rankings or Google is looking specifically for social share buttons on a website.

Also, what do you mean by a Web 2.0 authority site?

Social sharing impacts rankings, read this http://www.seomoz.org/blog/your-guide-to-social-signals-for-seo

Sarah was referring to sites such as Squidoo.

 

[sodirect]

In my experience this is what's happening. Check out SearchEngineLand and Warrior Forum.

Web 2.0 sites - the authority sites such as Stumble Upon, etc these act as buffer sites and the power of the link from the profile passes through to the main site, it's also a good way to secure your brand presence. Dell for example has many thousands of entries on such sites - so Google sees it is an important brand.

 

[JonathanSEO]

You sent me a link to an article that proves nothing. Or actually, it does, it proves that social signals don't yet play a major part in ranking websites.

I quote the final paragraph "While we still don’t know the true impact of social signals" case closed.

Show me some real world examples.

 

[InternetMarketingPlatinum]

You sent me a link to an article that proves nothing. Or actually, it does, it proves that social signals don't yet play a major part in ranking websites.

I quote the final paragraph "While we still don’t know the true impact of social signals" case closed.

Show me some real world examples.

Again you're saying major part, I'm saying significant part - which they do. Significant is enough to warrant building it into a strategy. Is your stance to ignore this until it plays a huge part (however you quantify this).

 

[JonathanSEO]

In my experience this is what's happening. Check out SearchEngineLand and Warrior Forum.

Web 2.0 sites - the authority sites such as Stumble Upon, etc these act as buffer sites and the power of the link from the profile passes through to the main site, it's also a good way to secure your brand presence. Dell for example has many thousands of entries on such sites - so Google sees it is an important brand.

Did you actually just try to tell me that Google recognises Dell as a big brand because they have many entries on StumbleUpon?

There's me thinking it was Michael Dell who built a brilliant Squidoo lens some time around 2005 and then shifted a boat load of laptops off the back of it.

Unbelievable this. Stick to warrior forum.

 

[JonathanSEO]

Again you're saying major part, I'm saying significant part - which they do. Significant is enough to warrant building it into a strategy. Is your stance to ignore this until it plays a huge part (however you quantify this).

Enlighten me, show me a website that is ranking due to social signals.

I don't ignore social, I use it to drive traffic, speak to people, help with link building and all kinds of other related stuff.

What I don't do is come on forums and tell people that if they put some social buttons on their website and have some people "Like" their facebook page it's going to increase rankings. Because it won't.

 

[sodirect]

I've tested it - blogging system then syndicating - 253 shares - ranked for specific search term on page one within a matter of hours - that worked.

 

[InternetMarketingPlatinum]

Did you actually just try to tell me that Google recognises Dell as a big brand because they have many entries on StumbleUpon?

There's me thinking it was Michael Dell who built a brilliant Squidoo lens some time around 2005 and then shifted a boat load of laptops off the back of it.

Unbelievable this. Stick to warrior forum.

What is wrong with Warrior Forum??

No, you're clearly misquoting the statement about Stumbleupon and deliberately taking it out of context.

You seem preoccupied with the delivery and to miss the point that Dell are doing so well because of how they dealt with negative online reputation (using Web 2.0, etc).

 

[JonathanSEO]

I've tested it - blogging system then syndicating - 253 shares - ranked for specific search term on page one within a matter of hours - that worked.

Unfortunately that is the worst case study I have ever heard.

 

[sodirect]

the original title of the post was "SEO 72 hours" I achieved page one rankings within a few hours, actually pretty chuffed with it as a test, following Google's major changes at Christmas. That was using Tribe Pro. Free tip for you.

 

[InternetMarketingPlatinum]

the original title of the post was "SEO 72 hours" I achieved page one rankings within a few hours, actually pretty chuffed with it as a test, following Google's major changes at Christmas. That was using Tribe Pro. Free tip for you.

The resources and time saved with the power of leveraging hey

 

[JonathanSEO]

There were no major changes at Christmas.

You aren't a genuine person are you. Are you an Indian SEO company or something?

I just read your about page and it's hilarious:

"first came to fame in the Nineties"

"floated the SAP reseller, Axon plc onto the UK stock exchange for £135 Million in the Nineties and was responsible for writing Tony Blair's speech to the Labour Party conference in 1997 which resulted in his party winning their landmark election on the "Education, Education, Education" agenda which was Sarah's creation"

Killing me here, it's actually funny. Spoof right?

Floated companies on the stock exchange and then telling me to use Tribe Pro. LOL

 

[sodirect]

Yep that's me, real person. Based in England. Read my CV - you'll find me on LinkedIn. ...oh, and Facebook, Google+ and Twitter and StumbleUpon.

 

[sodirect]

I like Tribe Pro. Lawrence Tam's pretty good on there. I like to discover and learn new things.

 

[InternetMarketingPlatinum]

Yep that's me, real person. Based in England. Read my CV - you'll find me on LinkedIn. ...oh, and Facebook, Google+ and Twitter and StumbleUpon.

And quite an impressive presence on 4N

 

[sodirect]

Thank you. I forgot about that one - have been trying to hop back on recently. No doubt, we'll meet there too then ;-)

 

[InternetMarketingPlatinum]

There were no major changes at Christmas.

You aren't a genuine person are you. Are you an Indian SEO company or something?

I just read your about page and it's hilarious:

"first came to fame in the Nineties"

"floated the SAP reseller, Axon plc onto the UK stock exchange for £135 Million in the Nineties and was responsible for writing Tony Blair's speech to the Labour Party conference in 1997 which resulted in his party winning their landmark election on the "Education, Education, Education" agenda which was Sarah's creation"

Killing me here, it's actually funny. Spoof right?

Floated companies on the stock exchange and then telling me to use Tribe Pro. LOL

A simple Google search shows that she's real. Anyway, you've listed your company in the UKBF profile as being "Google". Mmm curious.

 

[Deleted member 154900]

Question for the seo gurus

With all your experience can you analyze a site and give a good estimation of the time required to get on the first page?

And was the result from the battle of the geeks (sorry gurus ) that although there is little definitive proof there is a lot of talk within the seo community that Google will be weighing social higher in its figuring,

No wonder we go for ppc seo is a fooking nightmare

 

[sodirect]

Google made major changes at Xmas ('Panda' and 'Penguin' Google updates, ongoing); this included personal searches and quick answers at the side of the page.

It's now imperative to put in social sharing strategy into SEO http://www.seomoz.org/google-algorithm-change#view-all

Social sharing is essential NOW - it looks like social signals are what really happend before xmas.

Google analytics – use this to measure effect – this shows what keywords they are being found for to some degree but also traffic is the key – if you are getting more traffic then it is successful - whether it converts or not is down to the website – and the offering of course.

It’s very difficult these days to give a fair indication of how long it would take to get a client on page one, however, we got "photocopiers" to number 13 in 6 months on a budget of £500 per month - a year ago I would have said it was impossible - especially as it was a new site.

This was achieved through social sharing, blog posts (each social shared), high PR links, high quality link building - ie finding blogs to post on, manual creation of web 2.0 sites with quality articles - all social shared.

Blog and we recreate what we did for photocopiers then I assume we could get close if not the same.

But I have to be honest - I don't know what Google are going to do tomorrow let alone today!

Photocopiers officially at number 9 now – message me and I’ll send a screen grab to show the results.

Which is better PPC or organic SEO? PPC enables you to split test and it's more scientific, i.e. you can see which keywords are working best to generate the traffic - the downside? It's easy to burn through money as the more popular the keywords, the higher the price. So budget would stretch further on organic SEO although you are testing it as you go along to see which keywords are working best and yielding the traffic. Although with organic SEO you cannot tell exactly who is searching, the more defined the keyword, the more likely it is a prospect interested in that product and it's not always about volume of searches, good monetized keyword terms can yield good results in terms of sales, if they are well targeted ie can be smaller volume of searches per month, but will convert thus yielding a return on investment.

 

[InternetMarketingPlatinum]

Question for the seo gurus

With all your experience can you analyze a site and give a good estimation of the time required to get on the first page?

And was the result from the battle of the geeks (sorry gurus ) that although there is little definitive proof there is a lot of talk within the seo community that Google will be weighing social higher in its figuring,

No wonder we go for ppc seo is a fooking nightmare

The general consensus is that SEO practitioners should think in terms of the bigger picture and that social proof and online reputation are certainly part of that. A significant part of it.

In terms of first page, yes if you add budget to that equation too and the business is right. Increase budget, decrease time, etc. It's also dependent on what opportunities are available for the client. By this I mean that the business must deserve to be on the first page but they just haven't adequately represented themselves and their offerings online yet including utilising the real world connections and associations that they have.

SEO isn't about manipulation of search engines, it's actually about presenting a business properly... I feel that anyone who is flapping around following a Google update doesn't have a true long-term internet marketing strategy in play.

 

[directmarketingadvice]

For the original poster ( who is probably sat in a corner now thinking what have i started)

Yes, the guy asked what seemed to be reasonable questions and triggered yet another SEO flame war.

Steve

 

[Deleted member 154900]

OK, have I got this right?
We get a blog added to our sites, we get great relevant content written for the blog, and now we tell people on all the social sites about it by submitting a summery and enticing them to our site, but of course we cant use the same summery because we are not allowed to duplicate,

And for extra SEO goodness we then have versions of the blog put on some of the big blog-sites again linking back to our site, maybe even syndicating them for extra extra goodness,

of course we keep the back-link building going until there is more evidence of its uselessness,

and if we have any free time we can develop that video/podcast/infogram etc

lol free time

 

[InternetMarketingPlatinum]

OK, have I got this right?
We get a blog added to our sites, we get great relevant content written for the blog, and now we tell people on all the social sites about it by submitting a summery and enticing them to our site, but of course we cant use the same summery because we are not allowed to duplicate,

And for extra SEO goodness we then have versions of the blog put on some of the big blog-sites again linking back to our site, maybe even syndicating them for extra extra goodness,

of course we keep the back-link building going until there is more evidence of its uselessness,

and if we have any free time we can develop that video/podcast/infogram etc

lol free time

Yes that's just about it. For an example, see this blog post I created, it has the usual social sharing buttons http://www.mytrade.tv/blog/2013/02/27/what-is-search-engine-optimisation-seo/

You're not allowed to duplicate on your site, duplicating off your site isn't an issue at all. Unless, of course, you're creating different accounts to share which isn't recommended. This is the only reason why people create different variations.

 

[Deleted member 154900]

looking at social submission i came across https://www.onlywire.com/

do you use something like this?

 

[MASSEY]

I bought social links on the likes of fiver.com to point at a site in relatively weak competition - i didn't notice any movement as a result.

I think it is too early for people to talk about social being good SEO.

The op's in a position that most people find themselves when they look to offload some work to an SEO - 'Am i about to waste a chunk of money on SEO'

 

[MASSEY]

There were no major changes at Christmas.

You aren't a genuine person are you. Are you an Indian SEO company or something?

I just read your about page and it's hilarious:

"first came to fame in the Nineties"

"floated the SAP reseller, Axon plc onto the UK stock exchange for £135 Million in the Nineties and was responsible for writing Tony Blair's speech to the Labour Party conference in 1997 which resulted in his party winning their landmark election on the "Education, Education, Education" agenda which was Sarah's creation"

Killing me here, it's actually funny. Spoof right?

Floated companies on the stock exchange and then telling me to use Tribe Pro. LOL

Well it would appear that war criminal Tony Blair bought her old house so i would presume she isn't lying

 

[Iconic Autographs]

I used an SEO company for another business that I own, he was recommended on here...the results....DIRE...promised the earth beforehand and delivered nothing.
Be very very careful, I would never use a seo company again unless it was based on results and no money upfront.

 

[JonathanSEO]

I used an SEO company for another business that I own, he was recommended on here...the results....DIRE...promised the earth beforehand and delivered nothing.
Be very very careful, I would never use a seo company again unless it was based on results and no money upfront.

Nobody that's good at SEO works for free based on results.

 

[Deleted member 154900]

he was recommended on here...the results....DIRE...promised the earth beforehand and delivered nothing

I think Seo is a big black hole of miss information,

From a client point of view we would like to be guaranteed a ranking on google for a given keyword, give a fixed price for the same and then pay for the service,

Unfortunately the world of Seo seams to have so many variables that the above option is impossible, or is it?
how many SEO people would give a fixed price and only be paid on results?
If you wasn't worried about doing all your work upfront, and you knew you would get paid, would the price you quote have to be so high that the customer would have an heart attack?
If you are completely honest about the time and money do you loose the contract to one of the many that offer much more for much less but always fail to produce?

As a client our big problem is that because results are hard to quantify it is open for abuse (thus the opening post) and we are not talking of a few ££ 600+ a month for 6 months or more and you may see some progress seams to be the norm,

 

[Annoying Donkey]

As a client our big problem is that because results are hard to quantify it is open for abuse

Not really. Just ensure you understand what you really want (rather than what you think you want) and ensure that's part of the specification...