Self-employed trainer, mandatory unpaid training

[Sheppard Digital]

My wife is a self-employed tutor for a training organisation. Last week the organisation have emailed all tutors to say that they MUST attend mandatory training next week, it's a full day and on a day when my wife would be working elsewhere. What is worse is she has been told that the mandatory training will be unpaid, and the assignment of contracts to tutors next year will be based on whether or not you attend the mandatory training.

Surely this isn't allowed?

If the training was to be paid, then my wife would have taken time out of her other role to do it, but because it is unpaid then she's going to lose money if she does it. If she doesn't do it, then she risks not being assigned any contracts with the organisation next year.

To provide some background on the training organisation. They arrange/rent the venue, they dictate the times/days the course is ran, they provide all equipment and tools necessary for the delivery of the course. They dictate all deadlines, and provide a uniform. My wife simply delivers the course and gets paid for the time she does it. They organisation also dictate how much CPD must be done each year, and what types of CPD are acceptable. They provide lesson plan templates, and also provide a template that all self-employed tutors MUST use when submitting their invoices. For me, the organisation has too much control, but my wife has been happy with the way things are, the unpaid mandatory training that is being put on her and other tutors is getting a bit much.

Just looking for some advice or suggestions, I just can't believe that organisation are allowed to threaten self-employed people like this. i.e. do the unpaid training or don't get a contract next year.

Also, to add. My wife does enough CPD of her own to achieve the number of hours required in the year.

 

[paulears]

It doesn't matter if she is self-employed or an employee. If training is required, then all of the people need to go on it. One of my clients was told that everyone MUST go on a Fire Training course after a shambolic fire alarm event. There were salaried people, hourly paid people and three contractor status people like me. I attended, even though it was my complaint that caused the training event.

Some factors are pre-requisites for you doing work for them. You have the choice, so it's not unfair. annoying of course, but if you don't go, you don't get the work.

When I still did the odd education job I got told one of my qualifications needed updating. At my cost, in my own time. I checked with the DoE and they confirmed one older one had been operating on exemption and this exemption was ending, so yes - I needed the new version. The agency would not offer me work without it. I worked out I'd need to work far more for them than I wanted and driver further at my cost that the qualification would cost me, so I didn't do it and work dried up. I don't blame the agency or the individual schools. If your wife doesn't work for them as an employee, then they don't have to pay her for attending. If they are treating all contractors identically, then it's fair. Stinks of course.

 

[Sheppard Digital]

Thanks for the response.

She's said she's not going to do the training, and all of the other self-employed tutors she's spoken to are not going to do it either. All of the employed people are doing it though.

I already think this company is taking the mick employing self-employed people anyway, and this is just another example of it.

 

[paulears]

Indeed they are. One I worked for went bust owing me and others lots of money, they started up again, contacted all the old people and suggested that if they wanted to work for the new company, there was a chance the old unpaid invoices might be met by the new version - many declined with two fingers! IR35 makes training almost certainly employment. The decent firms only work with that status people.

 

[Newchodge]

The fundamental problem here is that she is not self empoyed. She is an employee whose employer wishes to cheat her and HMRC by calling her self employed. IF she were an employee she should be paid for attending training. If she were self employed she would ensure she has all necessary training, for which she would pay all costs, so that she could obtain self employed contracts. The fees she would charge for those contracts would reflect the cost of the training she has paid for.

 

[pentel]

The fees she would charge for those contracts would reflect the cost of the training she has paid for.

Does your wife charge a suitable rate to cover this?

 

[Newchodge]

Does your wife charge a suitable rate to cover this?

I assume this was directed towards the OP, not to me. I don't have a wife!

 

[pentel]

I assume this was directed towards the OP, not to me. I don't have a wife!

Whoops, sorry, definitely directed towards the OP, I could definitely have made that clearer.....

 

[Newchodge]

Whoops, sorry, definitely directed towards the OP, I could definitely have made that clearer.....

 

[rsshep]

Does your wife charge a suitable rate to cover this?

My wife doesn't dictate the rate she is paid, at the time she took on the contract the hourly rate was around £15 per hour and there was no mention of having to complete mandatory training without pay.

It doesn't matter now, she's already said she isn't doing the training. The training only provides her with the benefit that it'll keep her in the good books with this company, which she isn't concerned about that as they're mis-managed, have lots of wastage and generally don't appear to know what they're doing.

The training they're asking her to do is 25 mile away from home, so they're expecting her to pay for travel there and back, as well as the 8 hours the training will last for. She already completes and pays for other training herself that she feels will benefit her and her career, but she doesn't feel she needs to pay for training that she doesn't feel provides much benefit outside of this company.

 

[pentel]

Is your wife actually self employed?

from: https://www.gov.uk/employment-status/selfemployed-contractor

Someone is probably self-employed if:

• they’re in business for themselves, are responsible for the success or failure of their business and can make a loss or a profit
• they can decide what work they do and when, where or how to do it
• they can hire someone else to do the work
• they’re responsible for fixing any unsatisfactory work in their own time
• their employer agrees a fixed price for their work - it doesn’t depend on how long the job takes to finish
• they use their own money to buy business assets, cover running costs, and provide tools and equipment for their work
• they can work for more than one client

 

[BustersDogs]

I do not get out of bed for £15 an hour and I only walk dogs.

 

[Namorth]

This could be me!! Staggered to have received an email this evening telling me I have to attend mandatory training. This is a tuition agency who ‘employ’ me as self-employed. I am obliged to attend on a day when I am contracted to work elsewhere. The only difference is, this is paid at £12 ph for 3 hours Unbelievable! It’s a good hour drive from home too. How do these agencies get away with it?? They seem to think by paying above minimum wage, it’s above board. I’ll be happily quoting IR35 regs to them...

 

[Newchodge]

This could be me!! Staggered to have received an email this evening telling me I have to attend mandatory training. This is a tuition agency who ‘employ’ me as self-employed. I am obliged to attend on a day when I am contracted to work elsewhere. The only difference is, this is paid at £12 ph for 3 hours Unbelievable! It’s a good hour drive from home too. How do these agencies get away with it?? They seem to think by paying above minimum wage, it’s above board. I’ll be happily quoting IR35 regs to them...

Please let us know how it goes.

 

[Higgsy]

A company we contract for, holds training days that we must attend to ensure we stay inline with their policies etc. This is unpaid, although we get lunch. we also travel nearly two hours to their HQ.

I'll be honest, we don't complain, as we are paid very well from them, and I ensure the business sets money aside to pay the wages for the training days.

The only difference I can see from the above is; they provide numerous different days for each type of training (8 different courses and approx 4 sessions for each a year), and you plan it around our own diaries.

 

[UKSBD]

This could be me!! Staggered to have received an email this evening telling me I have to attend mandatory training. This is a tuition agency who ‘employ’ me as self-employed. I am obliged to attend on a day when I am contracted to work elsewhere. The only difference is, this is paid at £12 ph for 3 hours Unbelievable! It’s a good hour drive from home too. How do these agencies get away with it?? They seem to think by paying above minimum wage, it’s above board. I’ll be happily quoting IR35 regs to them...

Are you paying for the course?

 

[Namorth]

A company we contract for, holds training days that we must attend to ensure we stay inline with their policies etc. This is unpaid, although we get lunch. we also travel nearly two hours to their HQ.

I'll be honest, we don't complain, as we are paid very well from them, and I ensure the business sets money aside to pay the wages for the training days.

The only difference I can see from the above is; they provide numerous different days for each type of training (8 different courses and approx 4 sessions for each a year), and you plan it around our own diaries.

I think that may be the difference: you are not being 'controlled' to the extent that you have you own time forcibly taken away.

 

[Namorth]

Well in my case I ignored the email and didn't hear another word!