It's not Woocommerce that slowed your installs. It's far more likely the theme or other plugins you've added that slowed your load speed. If you can't do something, get an expert to help.
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Default theme and no plugins. My developers are extremely experienced and couldn't find anything obvious without spending hours trawling through.
It would be good to know if we are doing something wrong or if it's just WordPress because we would like to try using it a little more for certain projects.
I also used it to develop our Intranet of Process Manuals and again it's awfully slow to load any page. Again very little customisation.
Paul.
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This nonsense about magento has to stop.. you can either build a magento site or you can't. There is nothing slow or bloated about magento out of the box or built correctly.
We mainly host magento sites but we have ton of woo sites also.. the magento sites are typically faster as the caching is must more robust and built in from scratch.
With the new generation of themes (swissup / hyva) a modern magento 2 site goes like a rocket and can almost score 100 on pagespeed (mobile and desktop)
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Ideally, we all want the best of everything.
I remember reading this post from Cloudflare many years ago
Stop worrying about Time To First Byte (TTFB) (https://blog.cloudflare.com/ttfb-time-to-first-byte-considered-meaningles/)
For example, the TTFB can vary a lot depending on whether compression is On or Off.
There are way too many different factors, though I stand by what I said in my previous post that the main goal is to get the initial page to load as fast as possible to the end user (page fully rendered/loaded) and also have repeat requests to the page to load even faster from the cache.
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So find a faster theme. Neve is the theme used for my demo (free version). I use a plugin that stops unrequired plugin scripts running on the page (free version). The site runs Smush Pro to deliver webp images. On other sites, I upload fonts instead of using Google fonts. There is no caching or CDN.
I get that if I put the site on a faster server, I could improve TTFB. But why would I? Google doesn't require it. That shared server plan is £99/year and has 10 other test sites on it.
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I noticed WordPress loaded very slow on all the so-called Top 10 Web Hosts and many VPS mostly because they throttle resources too much or the hardware is very old CPU/processor/wise.
I used to use Elementor and noticed it took ages to edit the text in the WordPress Admin editor and so I even redesigned the page without a design plugin and using only the default WordPress editor. This made the code much cleaner and the page would update and publish quicker.
Not stopping there, I did a simple test of switching only the processor from VPS to a better one with everything else being the same and it made the page load around 1 second faster! That's without messing about with CDN, caching, changing code etc. The code just executes quicker because of the better/faster CPU alone.
Check this one
https://shared-micro-coventry-uk.mytestserver.org/
Hosted on AMD Ryzen 7900X with DDR5 4800 MHz memory and it loads the default WordPress page as low as 40miliseconds from network tools in Chrome browser.
Also, https://gtmetrix.com/reports/shared-micro-coventry-uk.mytestserver.org/HdY8uuJp/
Shows 192ms
The plan is only £2.95/month! The pages/posts update instantly without any delay! Can get slightly quicker than that on higher-tier plans.
A lot of providers can't manage that even when paying them £50-£400/month! Too funny.
WordPress can be fast as long as go through the things I mentioned in the previous post. Obviously, when you start adding custom plugins/themes that can slow things down, but the code from them is from the developers who make the plugins/themes, not WordPress core files. If some plugins/themes are slower because of sloppy coding can't blame that on WordPress, and I'm not saying you are saying that @antropy but many do think that's the case.
In short,
1. Use a fast CPU/processor as possible
2. NVMe SSD storage
3. LiteSpeed Web Server and LSCache if using WordPress
4 Have decent CloudLinux LVE limits. For example, a lot of web hosts using CloudLinux will limit Disk IO to something silly like 1 to 5MB/s and that causes the web pages/cronjobs to load/finish much slower.
5. Try to use as few plugins as possible. For example, many try to use alternative caching plugins instead of using LScache. LScache is best used on LiteSpeed Web Server and is included free so you don't have a free version and are forced to pay extra to use the full functionality of the plugin. The same also applies to custom security plugins, don't use them if you can help it; instead, use the security from the provider who uses Imunify360. Use the resources from the server itself, not resources from your own account/website as the WordPress plugin will process caching/security stuff slower than the server will, thus, slowing your website/pages down.
Hmm, yeah, those will do for now. I was going to add more but a bit busy.
Hope it helps.
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I have a lot of sites running Elementor. The theme you use makes a huge difference to the speed of the Elementor editing pages. Try Neve. It's quick, even on my cheap shared hosting plan.
Currently working on a test site using Elementor header, content & footer which I have at 97 on PSI, so far.
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Yes the server can be configured to send the first byte before it has finished processing, with an obj_flush() in PHP for example, so the Time To Last Byte is the relevant one.
Paul.
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But themes are generally front-end code.
It's the back-end code speed we're talking about here.
Paul.
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But the back-end code is the most important thing and the most difficult thing, it's trivial to optimise front-end HTML.
Paul.
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Yeah but you think Core Web Vitals are trivial and TTFB is more important. Sorry, I can't take you seriously.
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Probably could. Main thing was to have decent hosting and not rely on plugins. WordPress does need a bit of configuration but it's not that complicated. There are loads of tutorials on how to speed things up.
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As I've said several times above it's Time To Last Byte that matters for customer experience. Core Web Vitals are important too, I never said they were trivial, I said it's very easy to optimise HTML.
Paul.
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That's a poor solution that doesn't scale though.
There is no reason for most CMSs to have page loads longer than a static HTML file.
Click around antropy.co.uk and you'll see what I mean. It's running on ConcreteCMS and the pages load as fast as they would if it were all exported to static HTML.
Paul.
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That's not reflected in what I've seen on PSI.
Not saying it's slow but what about CWV? Do you think it affects your ranking?
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You know folks, all this belly button comparison is fascinating and all, but as an end-user, I don't care.
I'm pretty sure that if I went to @antropy as an Opencart host, or @Shopclicks for Woocommerce hosting (or presumably @dx3webs for Magento) and said "This is what I want, can you do it?", the answer from all of you would be "yes". How you do it would presumably be different, but it's really not all that important to me - what matters is whether my customers find the site useable, and whether it ranks well on Google.
I would show you my competitor sites and tell you that this is definitely what I DON'T want, and can you do better? And you would all say yes. And the proof would be when you deploy my shiny new site - cos if it didn't do what you said it would, you wouldn't get paid!
I'm pretty sure that if I went to @antropy as an Opencart host, or @Shopclicks for Woocommerce hosting (or presumably @dx3webs for Magento) and said "This is what I want, can you do it?", the answer from all of you would be "yes". How you do it would presumably be different, but it's really not all that important to me - what matters is whether my customers find the site useable, and whether it ranks well on Google.
I would show you my competitor sites and tell you that this is definitely what I DON'T want, and can you do better? And you would all say yes. And the proof would be when you deploy my shiny new site - cos if it didn't do what you said it would, you wouldn't get paid!
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And herein lies the problem. Most business owners don't know which questions to ask. You probably do because of your experience. But most don't. The best question to ask is 'show me some of your sites and the keywords they rank for'. Most are purely interested in design.
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Doesn't that just create another set of questions - they could rank for something based on their SEO work or amazing and rich content that tickles Google and makes it happy?
My questions for a web developer would be different to the OPs, because I've been round the houses with it all before, Magento, Woo, OpenCart, Shopify...used them all over the last ten years or so. There's a billion other things than site speed. Integrations with warehouse systems? Ease of use CMS? Multiple user accounts for staff? Shipping handling?.....All of those things are just as important to the success of a site.
Personally, I prefer a system that we can handle as much in-house as possible. It needs to be all click and drop stuff, so someone in the warehouse can update the website.
This all derails the OP of course but it's fascinating isn't it...
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T
TabletSalsa
- Original Poster
- #64
I have questions regarding transaction fees/credit card fees. Do all platforms have these fees? Is it possible to process the payments ourselves without using a third party processor or even a platform processor like Shopify payments or Woo payments, etc? Do businesses ever forward these transaction fees to their customers? I'm sure I sound like a noob asking some of these questions.
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Oh there's plenty of other questions but at the very least a client should be asking about how my sites look and perform. A surprising number don't. Sometimes that's based on reputation but not always.
This is why I chose to focus on WP & Woo. It's rare to have to say no, that can't be done.
The drag & drop page editor I use for clients who want to edit is Elementor. I think it's unmatched for ease of design and content display. And my clients get a lifetime Pro version licence, free of charge. People generally get to know how it all works fairly quickly with training.
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Open source platforms like Wordpress/Woocommerce don't charge transaction fees. You would use a third-party payment gateway like Stripe, PayPal, Pay360, etc. The transaction fees they charge are normally just absorbed by the business in most cases.
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Hi TabletSalsa
I'm not a web developer nor do I want to be, but I do know a little about it.
As a lot of people have mentioned there are lots of questions to ask and lots of paths to take. I am going to make a few general assumptions, you want to do this inhouse and you would prefer to do it for as little as possible, that's the approach I take anyway. I have had poor experiences working with developers so I try to stay away from them now.
Anyway, I would use Shopify, perfectly good enough to handle whatever you need, easy to use and maintain as long as you don't try to get to fancy.
I would then get Zapier and set up a 'zap' to create a line in SQL whenever you get a new order, I just tried this on my own setup and it took me two minutes to do the basic job, although I don't actually use SQL so I couldn't test it.
Shopify costs a few pounds and in Zapier the shopify and SQL are premium apps so also cost a bit, I haven't priced it out but under £50 a month at a guess.
I use a similar setup but with my accounts package, Quickbooks, and Trello, this changed my life
We went from using paper order forms to using PC and phones, saved so much time and meant that we were much more organised.It would be fair to say that I am a fan boy of Zapier and Trello
Another good thing about Shopify is that you can set up a virtual terminal for processing card payments, it is a little more expensive than the system I had before on the transactions but it doesn't have a monthly rental, it saved me more than the cost of Shopify each month. Of course that all depends on volumes and how you use card payments etc so do your own sums.
Good Luck
Jim
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As a little case study for you. While quoting for a company on their woo-commerce site here are the results of the page load / core-vitals based entirely on the server being used.
in order of display..
A high end dedicated server
A entry level dedicated server
A cloud based solution
and one of the "top ten" wordpress hosts... don't want to name them.
As it is we got them to a A grade on an entry level server with a few tweaks.
Needless to say the customer experience for the same site can be radically different and you get what you pay for.
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The Shopify website does not get a lot of traffic just now, it is still a work in progress. Eventually I will be sending traffic to it via links from some of my other websites, adverts on Google and Facebook, repeat business, and SEO I guess.
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It's good that you have other marketing channels. Without a great deal of money spent on a custom Shopify template, don't expect to see much in the way of organic search traffic. It's disappointing that anyone would recommend Shopify to the OP without researching this.
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Hi Shopclicks,
Here we go again
So if you were to read the original post, you would have read that TabletSalsa is looking to set up ecom to sell parts to his distributors, so he would probably not need to drive much traffic to his site via organic search traffic.
Mind you, to pick holes in your comment, there is no platform that is going to give you loads of organic traffic without you developing the site, and most of that is via good-quality content and other non-platform-specific jobs.
On top of that any website owner who relies on organic traffic is taking a risk, organic traffic can, as you know, disappear overnight, so they should have a robust plan in place to take advantage of organic traffic, but also traffic from paid advertising and social media. You need to take a holistic approach to it.
I'm so sorry you are disappointed with my recommendation, I suggested a combination of systems that I feel would do what the op wanted to achieve. This was based on my experience and use of the systems, I know that you can get good results that are easy (sort of) to achieve. I'm sure it isn't the best option, but you will of course have made a superior recommendation. I will go and check it out, maybe learn something. ...................... Oh wait, it seems that you never even bothered to make a recommendation, in fact, it looks like all your posts in this thread have been to tell other people how wrong they are. It is a little disappointing that someone of your obviously superior intellect and knowledge didn't feel like helping the OP and instead just spent his time trying to score points against others, so here you go, 10 points to you.
Jim
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I get it. You've made a decision to go with Shopify and you want to defend that decision. The fact is, there are other options available. I've talked about other options in this thread. Sometimes I defend and sometimes I oppose. That's what happens on forums.
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Hi Shopclicks,
If you were to actually read my post you'd see that I did say that it might not have been the best option. It works for me which is why I made the recommendation.
On forums, most people try to help the people who ask questions by actually answering their questions, some people however, decide to just argue with other people and try to make themselves look big and important, that's what actually happens on forums.
Why don't you try to help and make a recommendation that helps the op? I wonder if you will try to help or just decide to argue and criticise?
Jim
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How many times do I need to mention (and defend) Wordpress & Woocommerce in this thread to get a point across. I could just come into the thread and tell the OP I recommend Wordpress. I'd rather talk about why. And that's why people disagree with me sometimes. If you read through the thread, you'll see that I've said some good things about Wordpress. It's up to the OP how they read that.
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Shopclicks, I did read your posts, and to be honest you make a right meal of it, most people couldn't understand what way you were going with it. Yes you might have mentioned Wordpress and Woocommerce, but you did it in such a way that you'd need to be pretty familiar with the subject to understand it.
Your first comment on the thread was "
There's a demo website with a demo Woocommerce store in my profile. No caching plugin.
Google speed test is shown on the store page. Feel free to test for yourself."
Now do you really feel that this is a useful and helpful answer to the op's question?
So just for clarity and to show that you can be helpful, why not tell us how you think WordPress and Woocommerce would address the three requirements from the op's question? Could I also ask that you keep it relatively simple, we don't all speak geek.
Jim
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You seriously want to tell me how to post? What did I say that made you think that was going to work?
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Don't kid yourself, I knew you wouldn't answer the question or try to help, it's not your thing is it. I'll bet you keep on with your passive-aggressive nonsense till I get fed up and move on, then you will have won another forum battleYou seriously want to tell me how to post? What did I say that made you think that was going to work?
I mean God forbid you actually try to help someone by, you know, answering the question they ask.Jim
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You haven't read enough of my postsDon't kid yourself, I knew you wouldn't answer the question or try to help, it's not your thing is it. I'll bet you keep on with your passive-aggressive nonsense till I get fed up and move on, then you will have won another forum battle
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