Roadside advertising....unhelpful council....

[David Hamer]

Hi All,

Wondering if anyone has some advice....sorry for the long post.....

Background: my wife has a small dog grooming salon, just herself and an apprentice. Good reputation, decent use of social media for reviews, posting doggy photos etc. Her salon is ideal in that it has easy parking, nice neighbors, reasonable rent etc. etc. she's happy there and just signed her second 3 year lease. She's run a few leaflet drops and they've worked reasonably well but can't afford another at the moment (November and January are dead in the dog grooming business). She makes a small living but is keen to increase her customer numbers by 20% to 30% if possible.

Problem: the salon location is one street back from a main road but on a street that has very little through traffic. She'd like to put some signs on the main road - nothing large, half estate agent board size, with 'Dog groomers; 200 meters; Left and next Left'. She did this two years or so ago (tied to the back of a street sign and a lamppost) and had 2 or 3 people in the door the first couple of days directly as a result of the signage, result! Then, quick phonecall from the council to say if the signs aren't taken down within 24 hours, fines would follow so down they came.

Advice wanted: anyone got any idea how we can put signs on the main road without getting a council fine? Is it worth appealing to the council - is there a method to appeal? Has anyone had this problem and managed to find a way around it? FYI: there's a small bit of scrap ground next to the road in an ideal location for a sign but I don't know who owns it (looks like it might have been a very small filling station many, many decades ago) - is it worth just planting a sign there and hoping no-one complains, or any ideas how to find the owners of scrap land that looks untended since Churchills days? I'm thinking of maybe approaching an advertising agency but her finances are a bit tight and I don't know if it would be wasted money....

BTW: we're in Wales if that makes a difference to council regs.

Thanks in advance,

David

 

[Scalloway]

The way to avoid a council fine may be to apply for planning permission.

https://www.cardiff.gov.uk/ENG/resi...sion/Pages/Do-I-need-planning-permission.aspx

 

[profitxchange]

can you attach a sign to the side of a house on the corner to your road. ask the owner's permission. (its not council land)

 

[Newchodge]

It's not just planning permission - she was using council property (street sign and lamp post) to advertise her business, and I very much doubt she will get permission to do that. Councils have pursued people for advertising lost cats on their lamp posts. let alone businesses.

 

[webgeek]

Why not do the brochure exchange, card exchange with the areas businesses? You know the type, you post mine/share mine and I'll post/share yours.

I know of a woodburning stove store that's a half-block off the main road and they have signs in 2 nearby business windows explaining where to go, then posted a sign along the wall which is part of the alley/path people use to get to the business.

I'd recommend reading the advice from the government:
Outdoor advertisements and signs: a guide for advertisers
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/11499/326679.pdf

Look at 3D - and then coordinate an RSPCA pet grooming event that recurs every so often - and use that signage to convey the event at your pet grooming business.

There's other ways too, which do not require planning approval, in that section of the doc.

 

[The Byre]

Then, quick phonecall from the council to say if the signs aren't taken down within 24 hours, fines would follow so down they came.

You are lucky that they were kind enough to warn you first!

When you see signs tied to lamp posts and other articles of street furniture (for example, for political campaigns) those putting the signs up, have to comply with very strict rules for duration, height, size, number, distance from certain institutions such as schools and hospitals and a whole host of other rules.

If it were not like that, all street furniture would get plastered with signs, advertising and lost cat announcements.

Also, any large sign on private land has to have planning permission.

 

[webgeek]

Also, any large sign on private land has to have planning permission.

Prolly why I see cars, trucks and lorrie trailers are adorned with ads on the side of them and 'park' them nearby.

 

[Scalloway]

A sandwich board might work better

http://www.discountdisplays.co.uk/html/pavement_signs.html

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

It used to be the case that you could put up one sign no larger than 1.2m/sq without planning permission. Use a second one or make it a bit bigger and you will fall foul of the regulations.

Call you local planning department or business support team and confirm - Whatever their response, record the details of the act they will quote for/against their comment.

 

[kulture]

You cannot put up ANY signs to advertise your business away from your business. That said I know a local shop that puts an advertising sign on the side of an old Bicycle and parks it nearby.

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

@kulture - Well, when I was doing work for a council 4 years ago, I sat in front of their planning team who read out the legislation which states you can!

Sure, this may have changed, but unlikely!

I will caveat my statement by saying that I was developing a local market, so not a permanent place, which may have affected things.

 

[kulture]

Lol, I don't know what legislation you were read, but if you want the simple guide I recommend https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/11499/326679.pdf

Putting an advert on a highway requires permission from the highway authority. It is unlikely to be forthcoming.

 

[Ashley_Price]

There may also be issues with regard to how wide the pavement is. Could the signs be obstructing pedestrians - or even overhanging the road, so dangerous to vehicles parking etc.?

In recent years there has been a clamp down on "unnecessary street furniture" etc.

Why not simply approach the council and ask them what the rules and regs are?

(Why do people ask questions like this on forums like UKBF instead of simply calling the council or whoever for advice?)

 

[David Hamer]

Thanks for all the replies.

Unfortunately there aren't many houses nearby to ask to put a sign on or suitable places for a sandwich board.

I personally think a sign on a car would be a good idea but the wife is really not keen on it.

Webgeek - thanks for the link. I'll read through the document and see if there's anything suitable for her shop.

Ashley, good advice on just asking the council. We've tried a couple of times and even got as far as being ready to 'sponsor' a roundabout where you turn from the main road up to where my wifes' salon is....until they told us that the sign on the roundabout couldn't have a phone number, website address or street address! £100 odd a month just for a sign with a logo, no words other than the salon name .

My next plan to try and force some action (by the wife and myself....we're both a little un-motivated when it comes to advertising) is to join the local business group and see what others in the area do.

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

Pay someone to wear a giant dog costume, hold a sign with an arrow and then dance around the street pointing to your salon.

It might sound crazy, but the viral exposure on social media and possibly even in the local newspaper would greatly exceed anything you can pay for as direct advertising.

Disclaimer: I wouldn't be surprised if your local council had a way to prevent you from doing this as well.

 

[ethical PR]

What sort of advertising has your wife invested in at her local vets? How active is she in her local community Facebook groups? How does she keep in touch with people who have used her services before?

 

[Ashley_Price]

Pay someone to wear a giant dog costume, hold a sign with an arrow and then dance around the street pointing to your salon.

Please remember to keep you dog on a lead and ensure it doesn't foul the pavement.

In Dublin (because I go there more often than London) they have people in Grafton Street, standing or sitting with signs pointing to businesses down the side roads, everything from eateries to tanning, to clothes.

 

[Newchodge]

This happens in Newcastle a lot as well.

 

[samkma]

Does a shop sign on fascia (shop front above the display window) require planning consent?

 

[Ashley_Price]

Does a shop sign on fascia (shop front above the display window) require planning consent?

It may do. You would need to speak to your local council, especially if you are in a designated National Park area or similar.

My town is in the South Down National Park and so the shops can only be certain colours. One shop used bright red, which wasn't one of the acceptable colours so they were made to redo the front.

Also, there may be concerns if it is illuminated, or is being put on a historic building, etc.

 

[webgeek]

Pay someone to wear a giant dog costume, hold a sign with an arrow and then dance around the street pointing to your salon.

There's a guy with a sign outside of the big Glasgow Apple Store advertising cheaper iPhone repairs and info on their shop a block away.

Pure genius.