Returning Goods

[Oliver82]

Wonder if anyone could help. We sold a product to a customer who decided after 38 days that they didnt want the product and claimed it was faulty and was not the same as the previous ones they have bought from us. We know that they have changed a process within their business that renders our product useless to them. But we cant prove this, it was told to my colleague over the phone. Now according to the consumer rights act 2015 they must reject the goods within 30 days and if not they must allow the retailer to replace within 6 months, which we are happy to do. But if we were to replace then we would be replacing with exactly the same product. What happens if they decide to reject them again?

We do not want these products returns and the order value is 5 figures.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

 

[Mr D]

They claim its faulty? Then its faulty until you can check it over.
The 30 days limit is return for change of mind by consumers. This is a B2B transaction?

 

[Oliver82]

Yes sorry i should of said that, this is a B2B transaction

 

[Newchodge]

Consumer law is irrelevant.

If they claim the object is faulty they must either demonstrate to your satisfaction that it is faulty or return it to you, with a description of the fault so that you can establish whether it is faulty.

If it is the wrong product for their business, that is their problem, not yours.

 

[fisicx]

Yes sorry i should of said that, this is a B2B transaction

So they need to return the product so you can fix the fault and send it back.

If they brought the wrong product it's not your problem.

 

[Oliver82]

Thanks for your replies. So would there be a set time limit for them to return the products?

It is not something that we can fix, the product is imports by us and re sold. They want to return it because they have changed a process within their business, but we may struggle to prove that.

 

[Newchodge]

Thanks for your replies. So would there be a set time limit for them to return the products?

It is not something that we can fix, the product is imports by us and re sold. They want to return it because they have changed a process within their business, but we may struggle to prove that.

They don't get anything until they return the product. Once it is returned you will test it to see if it is faulty. If it is not faulty, they don't get anything.

Forget whether they have changed their process, it doesn't matter. You need to establish if the specific item they received is faulty.

 

[Mr D]

Thanks for your replies. So would there be a set time limit for them to return the products?

It is not something that we can fix, the product is imports by us and re sold. They want to return it because they have changed a process within their business, but we may struggle to prove that.

You presumably offer some sort of contract on the sale of the goods regarding warranty / returns due to faults?

 

[Oliver82]

You presumably offer some sort of contract on the sale of the goods regarding warranty / returns due to faults?

We do yes, we have a full set of terms and conditions which state that if a product is faulty then we should be notified within 14 days of purchase

 

[Oliver82]

Just to put a little more meat on the bone then. The product they buy comes in large quantities. Over the last 3 yeas they have bought in excess of 10 million from us, This order was for 500,000 which came from the same batch as previous acceptable orders.

 

[Mr D]

We do yes, we have a full set of terms and conditions which state that if a product is faulty then we should be notified within 14 days of purchase

And if it develops a fault?

 

[Oliver82]

And if it develops a fault?

This is straight from our terms and conditions:

Where it is established to the satisfaction of the Company that Goods contain at the time of receipt by the customer some defect in quality (not being a defect caused by some act or
neglect of the Buyer or a third party) and the Goods are returned to the Company at the Buyer's expense within 14 days of despatch. The Company will at its own cost repair or replace
the same (the choice being at the Company's option).

 

[Oliver82]

And if it develops a fault?

It would not be the kind of thing that could develop a fault as such.

 

[kulture]

Ok, If we are talking real money here, and B2B, you should presumably have a decent set of terms and conditions. Take them and all communication to a solicitor and stop drip feeding a public forum. You will be better served by spending a bit of money.

 

[Mr D]

It would not be the kind of thing that could develop a fault as such.

I see. No moving parts, no wires, no electronics.

Now question comes do you want to keep the customer? He's got a problem with a small fraction of his total orders. Keep him or cause aggro?

 

[Oliver82]

Ok, If we are talking real money here, and B2B, you should presumably have a decent set of terms and conditions. Take them and all communication to a solicitor and stop drip feeding a public forum. You will be better served by spending a bit of money.

Thats helpful thanks.

 

[Oliver82]

I see. No moving parts, no wires, no electronics.

Now question comes do you want to keep the customer? He's got a problem with a small fraction of his total orders. Keep him or cause aggro?

I dont think there is any question that our business relationship has ended. So happy with aggro.

 

[kulture]

Thats helpful thanks.

I am serious. If as you say the order value is 5 figures, and 500,000 items that you do not want back. Then stop waisting your time on a forum where we can only comment on the few bits of information you drip feed us. You presumably want paid for the items, (or if you are lucky enough to have already been paid you will presumably want to keep the money). A solicitor armed with the full facts will be better placed to help you. Sums like these are not to be treated lightly. The customer is much more likely to treat you seriously and stop trying it on if you have a solicitor working for you. As for "happy with the aggro" please remember this is a BUSINNESS process. There is no place for emotion here. You have to ensure that you do what is best for the business in the long term, regardless of any desire to have aggro.

 

[Oliver82]

I am serious. If as you say the order value is 5 figures, and 500,000 items that you do not want back. Then stop waisting your time on a forum where we can only comment on the few bits of information you drip feed us. You presumably want paid for the items, (or if you are lucky enough to have already been paid you will presumably want to keep the money). A solicitor armed with the full facts will be better placed to help you. Sums like these are not to be treated lightly. The customer is much more likely to treat you seriously and stop trying it on if you have a solicitor working for you. As for "happy with the aggro" please remember this is a BUSINNESS process. There is no place for emotion here. You have to ensure that you do what is best for the business in the long term, regardless of any desire to have aggro.

Once again thanks for your input. We are fully aware of where we need to go eventually, i just wanted to get the opinion of people who are a little more informed on such things to see if we had a case to start with. The term "aggro" was in answer to another poster who used the term. I am well aware that this is BUSINESS process. No emotion involved. As i said i was just asking for some advice which every other poster has offered and is very much appreciated. Feel free to not comment if my posts offend in such a way.

 

[kulture]

I am not at all offended. I am also keenly aware that this is a public forum and replies are there for all to see. Not just for you. So others in a similar situation can learn and perhaps avoid basic errors that you may or may not have done.

Any B2B sale is more reliant on well drawn up contracts than a consumer sale. Return conditions, re-stocking fees, limits on liability, and a whole lot else can be put into a B2B sales contract that makes it much safer to do 5 figure sum sales of 500,000 items. A well prepared business that deals in such sums should have already considered such matters that are currently worrying you. A well set up business will have already used a solicitor to draw up proper sales and supply contracts to cover most such circumstances and will already know exactly what they can and cannot do.

It is also dangerous to get information from people who are just a little more informed as there may be a crucial detail that you have ommited that could completely change the situation. Whilst a lot of good advice can be gotten on this forum and most here know what they are talking about, we can all be blind sided by a detail that you may have missed that you did not realise was critical.

When you are talking about a potential loss of tens of thousands of pounds then it is a different perspective to a B2B deal of just hundreds of pounds and the cost of a solicitor is too high and the potential of loss due to an error is less.

Whilst it may be too late for you, other businesses doing a similar value of orders may take the time to review their sales procedures and contracts to ensure that they do not fall into a similar trap.

 

[Oliver82]

I am not at all offended. I am also keenly aware that this is a public forum and replies are there for all to see. Not just for you. So others in a similar situation can learn and perhaps avoid basic errors that you may or may not have done.

Any B2B sale is more reliant on well drawn up contracts than a consumer sale. Return conditions, re-stocking fees, limits on liability, and a whole lot else can be put into a B2B sales contract that makes it much safer to do 5 figure sum sales of 500,000 items. A well prepared business that deals in such sums should have already considered such matters that are currently worrying you. A well set up business will have already used a solicitor to draw up proper sales and supply contracts to cover most such circumstances and will already know exactly what they can and cannot do.

It is also dangerous to get information from people who are just a little more informed as there may be a crucial detail that you have ommited that could completely change the situation. Whilst a lot of good advice can be gotten on this forum and most here know what they are talking about, we can all be blind sided by a detail that you may have missed that you did not realise was critical.

When you are talking about a potential loss of tens of thousands of pounds then it is a different perspective to a B2B deal of just hundreds of pounds and the cost of a solicitor is too high and the potential of loss due to an error is less.

Whilst it may be too late for you, other businesses doing a similar value of orders may take the time to review their sales procedures and contracts to ensure that they do not fall into a similar trap.

Thanks, ill bear all that in mind

 

[Jessica A.]

Wonder if anyone could help. We sold a product to a customer who decided after 38 days that they didnt want the product and claimed it was faulty and was not the same as the previous ones they have bought from us. We know that they have changed a process within their business that renders our product useless to them. But we cant prove this, it was told to my colleague over the phone. Now according to the consumer rights act 2015 they must reject the goods within 30 days and if not they must allow the retailer to replace within 6 months, which we are happy to do. But if we were to replace then we would be replacing with exactly the same product. What happens if they decide to reject them again?

We do not want these products returns and the order value is 5 figures.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

I'm not familiar with how product returns work over there but here in the Philippines, customers can exchange a faulty product within a set period but only have it exchanged once. They can't request for another exchange if they claim the second one they got is faulty.

 

[Newchodge]

I'm not familiar with how product returns work over there but here in the Philippines, customers can exchange a faulty product within a set period but only have it exchanged once. They can't request for another exchange if they claim the second one they got is faulty.

That is appalling.

 

[MOIC]

1. Pay them a visit and see exactly what they aren't happy with.

2. Take a few samples of their previous order to show them that the products are identical.

3. Find a compromise to keep the customer, if they are worth keeping.

Go with a witness and get them to record the meeting.