Relocating a 25-year PC repair business to home

[John Chase]

Hello my fellow business friends, i am in much need of your wisdom and expertise. i stepped in to running my family business 2 years ago after the passing of my father which he founded 25 years ago ,we are an established computer repair shop located in a prime location in the town centre and people have always known of us to be there as you would expect. we have over 5000 customers on our database and we also sell the odd accessorise in the shop front as well as laptops and PC's. our main source of income comes through labour charges from our workshop. however computer repairs are not has big as they used to be in terms of volume which is getting me to the break even point each month + working 6 days mainly due to operating expenses, rent, rates, etc. i'm now considering to close the shop and relocate the workshop to my home which would save me around £17k a year.i have factored in that even if i lost 30% of trade from relocating it would still be worth the move. now my question is, would you say this is a big risk even though i can keep my customers in the know about the move? is 30% of lost trade realistic? i understand i would lose passing trade and the odd bit of inventory i sell in the shop but would it make an issue for customers to come to me as i live in a residential area and not town centre? your responses would be highly appreciated,

Regards

John Chase

 

[Scalloway]

would it make an issue for customers to come to me as i live in a residential area and not town centre

Your local council may want you to apply for planning permission.

You may make your hous eliable for Capital Gains Tax when you sell it.

You will need to get approval from your insurers.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

I would suggest you contact your local planning office, most seem to have a list of old offices and workshops or landlords who have very cheap places in old area's like back streets, we started in one such place with a very low rent on a yearly contract lease, looked a total dump but a weekend with a paintbrush made it look a thousand times better. Basically the landlord had many old buildings unused and any rent was a bonus to them

If customers are coming to your home then neighbours may complain or may not, spending a couple of thousand of the saved £17000 on advertising in local papers may keep more of your old customers

 

[Mr D]

By the sound of it the town centre location with shop does not suit you any more.
A workshop of some kind perhaps more relevant to what you need.

Home would be a bad idea if it ends up annoying the neighbours.

 

[MOIC]

1. Do you have any lease liabilities, should you decide to move?

2. Is diversifying into mobile phone repairs and accessories an option?

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

How often do you market to the 5000 existing customers and what do you do/sell/offer to all of the clients/passers by that is not distressed based?

 

[estwig]

You can't have a workshop at home with clients visiting and deliveries being made. Planning will shut you down so quick, you won't know whats happened.

 

[John Chase]

How often do you market to the 5000 existing customers and what do you do/sell/offer to all of the clients/passers by that is not distressed based?

we sell new & refurbished laptops, along with computer peripherals, phone accessories etc. if i'm honest i've done very little marketing to my existing customers, in this game you'll be lucky to see the same customer more than 2 times a year

 

[John Chase]

1. Do you have any lease liabilities, should you decide to move?

2. Is diversifying into mobile phone repairs and accessories an option?

i'm currently not in a lease with my landlord and paying month by month at present untill i know exactly what i want to do.

yes we have not long started to promote phone repairs, which has added some profit to the books

but with phones its self there are over 15 shops offering a phone repair service so its very saturated

 

[John Chase]

You can't have a workshop at home with clients visiting and deliveries being made. Planning will shut you down so quick, you won't know whats happened.

i don't know how true this is, one my my outsourced repair specialists has a repair unit at his converted garage and has delivery's and trade all the time, he lives a few streets away from me
so i cant see this being an issue

 

[mattk]

Do you have details of how your 5,000 customers found you? How many was it via your high street presence compared to online, word of mouth etc. This should give you an indication of whether 30% is realistic.

As others have said, do you want people coming to your home or you are going to offer a collection/delivery service?

 

[John Chase]

Do you have details of how your 5,000 customers found you? How many was it via your high street presence compared to online, word of mouth etc. This should give you an indication of whether 30% is realistic.

As others have said, do you want people coming to your home or you are going to offer a collection/delivery service?

most of the time when i ask my customers how they heard about us they either say that they've always know we are here/ driving by or online.

yes if i were to relocate i would offer a collection and drop off service which would mean a lot more £ on advertising

 

[kulture]

i don't know how true this is, one my my outsourced repair specialists has a repair unit at his converted garage and has delivery's and trade all the time, he lives a few streets away from me
so i cant see this being an issue

This is an issue, It is illegal. Any business that does this can be shut down. It is a poor excuse to say that xxx breaks the law so I can too. The only reason he is getting away with this is likely that it is a few trade deliveries. Planning officers would be much more likely to enforce planning laws on a business that has multiple customers driving up and dropping off and picking up computers etc.

On top of this customers are more likely to trust a business that has an actual proper workshop rather than a "bedroom" business.

 

[John Chase]

This is an issue, It is illegal. Any business that does this can be shut down. It is a poor excuse to say that xxx breaks the law so I can too. The only reason he is getting away with this is likely that it is a few trade deliveries. Planning officers would be much more likely to enforce planning laws on a business that has multiple customers driving up and dropping off and picking up computers etc.

On top of this customers are more likely to trust a business that has an actual proper workshop rather than a "bedroom" business.

sorry but i have to disagree with you, i would be changing my business model and collect customers laptops and drop off, with the odd 1 or 2 picking up their machine from my home.

and you say customers are more likely to trust a business with a proper shop, yes i somewhat agree if i were starting from scratch, but i would tell all my customers i'm relocating and we are a known name so i don't know if customers would really be concerned that we moved to a residential premises

 

[Mitch3473]

we sell new & refurbished laptops, along with computer peripherals, phone accessories etc. if i'm honest i've done very little marketing to my existing customers, in this game you'll be lucky to see the same customer more than 2 times a year

As mentioned previously, have you tried a marketing/mailshot campaign to your exsisting 5000 customers.......and if you say you are lucky to see the same customer twice a year, even at one visit per year that's 5000 customer visits. Sharpen your sales skills and upsell to these guys, add lines that dont detract from or compromise your bottom line...... almost free business.
If you do move to a smaller ' industrial unit ' use this as an excuse to contact your customer base, ditto....

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Adding on to what Mitch states
Instead of selling repairs, have you though of selling upgrades to your customers just simple ones like changing hard drive to SSD etc or new monitors or memory, many people would never think about upgrading unless informed by a sales advert

 

[kulture]

sorry but i have to disagree with you, i would be changing my business model and collect customers laptops and drop off, with the odd 1 or 2 picking up their machine from my home.

and you say customers are more likely to trust a business with a proper shop, yes i somewhat agree if i were starting from scratch, but i would tell all my customers i'm relocating and we are a known name so i don't know if customers would really be concerned that we moved to a residential premises

Disagree as much as you like, it remains illegal. A poor business plan to base your future business on a shaky foundation. But you seem to have made your mind up. Your future depends on

1. No one telling the local district council that youi are running a business from home.
2. Your home insurance is likely void.
3. Your business insurance is likely void.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Where do you find this law that states you cannot work from home, as far as I know the only restriction can be the Mortgage company or landlord, other than the council getting a noise or nuisance complaint

 

[Scalloway]

Not the law but official gov.uk advice is here.

https://www.gov.uk/run-business-from-home

 

[alan1302]

Where do you find this law that states you cannot work from home, as far as I know the only restriction can be the Mortgage company or landlord, other than the council getting a noise or nuisance complaint

Working from home and running a business from home a different things.

 

[Mitch3473]

Disagree as much as you like, it remains illegal. A poor business plan to base your future business on a shaky foundation. But you seem to have made your mind up. Your future depends on

1. No one telling the local district council that youi are running a business from home.
2. Your home insurance is likely void.
3. Your business insurance is likely void.

Since when has it been illegal to work or run a business from home.

 

[Alan]

if you’re planning on making major alterations to your home

Not suggested

if you’re going to get lots of customers or deliveries, you want to advertise outside your home

The ambiguity here is 'lots'.
My normal domestic household get 2 to 3 deliveries a day ( postman, Amazon courier or Oacado etc )
And has about 4 to 6 domestic visitors a day, my son, the lady next door, the friend down the road that uses our driveway when shopping, the local community person plus the odd door to door canvasser.

So if normal is 3 deliveries what is lots 6?
So if normal is 5 visitors what is lots 10?

 

[kulture]

Since when has it been illegal to work or run a business from home.

It is not illegal, in general, to run a business from home. But that is not the case here. Specifically he wants to run a computer repair business from home. Set up a workshop in his home to repair customer's computers.

Now the planning use of his home is likely to be C3. Straight forward residential. The typical planning class for a computer repair shop is likely to be A1, although arguably this could be covered by B1.

So to remain legal under planning law he should apply for change of use. Depending on the local planning policies he may or may not get this. Ignoring this could result in a neighbour complaint getting looked into by a planning officer and planning enforcement actioned.

Then there is insurance. It is unlikely that his home insurance covers running such a business in the home.

If the home is owned, it is possible that the mortgage company would have a few problems with this. If rented then the landlord may well have similar objections.

Then there is the business insurance. Hopefully covering the customer's computers and the business equipment. It may well not be valid if the insurance company found out that this was not a proper business premisis. Insurance companies like finding excuses to avoid paying claims.

Then the OP mentioned that to get around too many customers visiting his home he would collect and deliver the PCs. I wonder if this too would be done with a properly insured for business use vehicle. Whether said insurance has been extended to cover transporting the customer's expensive computers.

Done properly, running a business from home is not necessarily cheaper than from a real business unit.

 

[Mitch3473]

So just to summarise then, it remains illegal but it's not illegal, to run a business from home.......

 

[Chris Ashdown]

I doubt the OP is aiming to have a shop window and a mini shop in his house, I assume like many others he will just work from a spare room or a garage or shed

A mini shop yes your point is valid but where has this been mentioned

 

[kulture]

If running a business means doing office type peperwork in the dinning room and no customers visit then it is legal.

If it menas customers visit on a regular basis then no not legal

 

[estwig]

If running a business means doing office type peperwork in the dinning room and no customers visit then it is legal.

If it menas customers visit on a regular basis then no not legal

No, not from a planning perspective, any commercial activity however small contravenes class usage of a residential property. It is overlooked until someone complains, complaints generally come from neighbors regarding disturbance caused by noise and people.

 

[gpietersz]

@estwig I think some things are OK.

"Where part of your home is used for business purposes and its overall character does not change, planning permission is not usually required."

https://www.camden.gov.uk/working-from-home-planning-permission and the same advice can be found on other council's web sites.

 

[estwig]

@estwig I think some things are OK.

"Where part of your home is used for business purposes and its overall character does not change, planning permission is not usually required."

https://www.camden.gov.uk/working-from-home-planning-permission and the same advice can be found on other council's web sites.

'Not usually required' is the key phrase, at all times planning retain rights to force any business operating from a residence, to apply for planning permission for commercial usage. But they don't unless it causes a disturbance.

 

[Nico Albrecht]

I think you do the complete different approach how to fix the problem and moving the workshop to a shop is just a patch.

Your problem seems to be that the business has not invested and kept up with current development and trends which either indicates your pc repair business is just a very basic one competing with any home repair kid on the market.

There is very good money in board level repairs on high end laptops, apple and mobile phones.

Investing in the business and doing r&d seems to be missing and cutting cost now is just the last resort before it fails.

it was recommended fixing phones, an idiot can find parts on ebay and swap screens and batteries but lets say tristar repairs on an iphone gets you easily £100 profit but requires skills and proper tools. Data recovery on high end phones can easily get you £300 - £ 600 a job but you would need to learn how to transfer nand and cpu and baseband chips. Why compete with 95% of the market swapping screens making no real money when you could be the 5% that do proper work and charge accordingly

Another friend of mine does apple macbook , imac board level repairs for B2B mostly. He is getting 40 boards in a day from all over the uk. It took him years and money to invest to get those repairs done at a good price and works come in without advertising.

offering pc training and courses for seniors there is a market.

Just saying if you hope after 25 years installing some software, removing a virus, hook up some printers is gonna work. It is not. Find niche products and services and focus on them not cutting more costs.

 

[Michael Loveridge]

One other aspect of running a business from your home that's often overlooked is whether your house is subject to restrictive covenants.

If it's a fairly modern (within the last 40 years or so) estate type house then it's very likely that there will be a covenant restricting or even outright prohibiting running a business from your home.

The purpose of this is to stop a house being used as business premises where there may be customers and suppliers coming and going. It's quite a sensible covenant, as such use could cause a nuisance to other residents.

In general terms, if the business doesn't cause any problems with the neighbours the covenant's unlikely to be enforced, but it only takes one grumpy neighbour to dob you in and you could be prevented from carrying on. If you've then burnt your boats by surrendering your tenancy it would leave you in a tricky position.

So if you thing there is any risk of this get a copy of your deeds from the Land Registry - https://www.gov.uk/get-information-about-property-and-land/copies-of-deeds- and just make sure.

 

[John Chase]

I think you do the complete different approach how to fix the problem and moving the workshop to a shop is just a patch.

Your problem seems to be that the business has not invested and kept up with current development and trends which either indicates your pc repair business is just a very basic one competing with any home repair kid on the market.

There is very good money in board level repairs on high end laptops, apple and mobile phones.

Investing in the business and doing r&d seems to be missing and cutting cost now is just the last resort before it fails.

it was recommended fixing phones, an idiot can find parts on ebay and swap screens and batteries but lets say tristar repairs on an iphone gets you easily £100 profit but requires skills and proper tools. Data recovery on high end phones can easily get you £300 - £ 600 a job but you would need to learn how to transfer nand and cpu and baseband chips. Why compete with 95% of the market swapping screens making no real money when you could be the 5% that do proper work and charge accordingly

Another friend of mine does apple macbook , imac board level repairs for B2B mostly. He is getting 40 boards in a day from all over the uk. It took him years and money to invest to get those repairs done at a good price and works come in without advertising.

offering pc training and courses for seniors there is a market.

Just saying if you hope after 25 years installing some software, removing a virus, hook up some printers is gonna work. It is not. Find niche products and services and focus on them not cutting more costs.

hmm, there is good money in board level repairs but there are lots of people doing it. its a fragmented market if you ask me just google them plus the amount of £ required for a workstation and specialist staff to do it would cost me £££. and data recovery is not long term, mechanical HDD will soon be non existent everyone will be using SSD's which are non mechanical as you are aware which rarely fail plus everyone will be on the cloud in the next 10 years so not worth the investment for me. i'm OK with the market at the moment but i think computer repairs, laptops, etc is not a scaleable buisness like it once was when my dad was in the game, my plan is to generate more revenue for my self to put in to a new business eventually..

 

[Nico Albrecht]

there are lots of people doing

There are actually not many

f £ required for a workstation and specialist staff to do it would cost me £££.

invest in your business and do r&d for board level repairs. It all starts with reading a book about basic electrical engineering, getting a used reflow workstation from ebay and 50 junk boards ( dell xps, macbook , xbox , ps ) to practise. Once done and results are good and work is coming in invest in a better workstation reflow IR etc....

SSD's rarely fail. Oh boy this lack if misinformation is concerning

SSD's are more vulnerable and much more expensive to recover. Nand memory is unstable by default and much afford is done by the controller and firmware to compensate for that. Samsung is currently squeezing 4 electrons / cell to write a bit and uses 16 different voltages to read out 4 value bits. Happy days.

Mechanical drives have there place in the future for at least 2 more decades. Seagate and WD spending billions in R&D for mechanical drive research and they roadmap has at least 20 years for them.

I think your lack of deep technical understanding what the markets needs and wants in combination with not investing serious money in your business to future proof it is quite convercing.

Giving up your only asset the brick and mortar store that separates you from a kid that does the same advertising on gumtree is a road for total failure.

I found rent to be the cheapest part of all outgoings and people simple expect to go to a shop to get profesional repairs done.

 

[John Chase]

There are actually not many



invest in your business and do r&d for board level repairs. It all starts with reading a book about basic electrical engineering, getting a used reflow workstation from ebay and 50 junk boards ( dell xps, macbook , xbox , ps ) to practise. Once done and results are good and work is coming in invest in a better workstation reflow IR etc....

SSD's rarely fail. Oh boy this lack if misinformation is concerning

SSD's are more vulnerable and much more expensive to recover. Nand memory is unstable by default and much afford is done by the controller and firmware to compensate for that. Samsung is currently squeezing 4 electrons / cell to write a bit and uses 16 different voltages to read out 4 value bits. Happy days.

Mechanical drives have there place in the future for at least 2 more decades. Seagate and WD spending billions in R&D for mechanical drive research and they roadmap has at least 20 years for them.

I think your lack of deep technical understanding what the markets needs and wants in combination with not investing serious money in your business to future proof it is quite convercing.

Giving up your only asset the brick and mortar store that separates you from a kid that does the same advertising on gumtree is a road for total failure.

I found rent to be the cheapest part of all outgoings and people simple expect to go to a shop to get profesional repairs done.

OK maybe there is longevity in hard drives , but more and more people will be on the cloud which will not mean as much data recovery jobs to recover in the near future, of course there will always be people who want their data on a physical drive but not for the long term. i have only been in this game for 2 years so i am nowhere near as skilled as a senior technician. as i sated earlier this was my late fathers company that i have inherited, i have no real knowledge in repairs and i employ my staff to do that, i'm mainly front of house, generating sales and offer advice to my customers, i have no real interest in repairing my self, but mainly to cut cost and maximise profit,. yes i have thought of scaling the business but the market is so, so fragmented, can you honestly see room for another chain that can compete with curry's know how repair?

 

[CVRO]

... i have no real knowledge in repairs and i employ my staff to do that, i'm mainly front of house, generating sales and offer advice to my customers, i have no real interest in repairing my self...

Would the staff who do the actual repairs work from the workshop in your home?

 

[John Chase]

Would the staff who do the actual repairs work from the workshop in your home?

yes, in fact i would only need one technician if i moved the workshop. this is purely no means for a long term plan, it will be to generate more profit to invest in another business eventually, i honesty think there is no big money left in repairs.. maybe 30-40k a year for a salary tops, but would you honestly be happy to earn that as a business owner?

 

[estwig]

You come across as inept. I suspect that regardless of what people say here, or elsewhere, or what ever happens, one way or another you will kill this business, which is a shame.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

I personally have not used a computer repair person for at a minimum 20 years, apart from some integration problems with a server
I also assume the cost of a repair would be quite a percentage of a new computer

Fair chance most on this forum have not had a computer repaired in the last 10 years and just brought new ones instead

 

[MOIC]

Clearly the OP’s heart is not in this business, in which case an exit strategy is best.

A business needs an owner with passion for the business.

This is clearly not the case in this situation, as well as the decline in the need for computer repairs.

 

[Nico Albrecht]

You should just close your business tomorrow and move on if you can't compete with curry's know how repair. If you consider them as a serious competitor you should not that kind of business.

Wanted to throw passion in as well but somebody did that already.

Common £30 - £40k salary for a failing business and you wonder why it is failing and goes nowhere. You inherited that business 2 years ago, it took me much longer than that to pay myself a salary like that. Back to business beginnings pot noodles and 1/3 of that salary.