Recipe book advice

[Naive citizen]

A friend of mine has written a cookery book which she hasn't published yet. Or indeed tried to publish. When I was looking at it she confessed to me that one or two recipes were lifted directly from other sources almost word for word.

We talked about whether or not this was okay and I said I'd ask on here. She says it probably isn't an issue because you can't really copywrite a set of instructions or any of the words you find in a list of ingredients (like how many different ways can you make Yorkshire pudding).

I think she might be right but it's a basic thing which she could get immediately rejected for or sued for if the book were published without checking first.

 

[fisicx]

Publishers use all sorts of plagiarism tools so it could well get rejected. If it dies get published and someone spots the duplication legal action could well follow.

Change the words, change the order of the ingredients. Change the images. Don’t ever copy anything word for word.

 

[Naive citizen]

I'll check what she means by 'almost' word for word.

It's good advise so thanks for that.

None of the images have been taken from anywhere else because that's clearly not going to work.

As my example above was for Yorkshire puddings I think the ingredients and method is basically universal so if what you'd written was so similar to another recipe that it triggered a plagiarism instance how would an issue like that end up getting settled?

 

[Mark T Jones]

Nobody can do anything to your friend for replicating well known list of ingredients

However, irrespective of legalities, the value of any given recipe book is the visuals and the presentation style - these should be your friend's own

 

[Naive citizen]

It is very nuanced I think. Could you get in trouble for listing the ingrediencies in the same order for instance?

 

[NickGrogan]

Probably not, a standard sponge is exactly that.

But what value is there in a recipe book that contains nothing different?

If your friend is a celebrity or even just an influencer with a decent following then they can /do publish anything and it will sell.

What is the marketing plan?

 

[UKSBD]

There was a big uproar last year where apparently someone had copied not just the recipes but the stories from another author https://www.theguardian.com/books/2...tants-book-pulled-amid-plagiarism-accusations

From reading it at the time, I think the recipes themselves are not copyright protected but you still have to be careful.

Potential publishers may also frown on it if there is too much copying too.

 

[Naive citizen]

Probably not, a standard sponge is exactly that.

But what value is there in a recipe book that contains nothing different?

If your friend is a celebrity or even just an influencer with a decent following then they can /do publish anything and it will sell.

What is the marketing plan?

The problem I find with recipe books is that one book never has everything in it. Hence when you see peoples recipe books they usually have more than one. You could have a great book by Gordan Ramsay but it might not have the standard sponge in it. So even if a standard sponge is in many books you may not yet have that particular book.

 

[NickGrogan]

OK, but no book can have every recipe in it, so that's not really relevant is it?

I might buy a Gordon Ramsay book because I like him and think he's a good chef, so his book has value.

 

[BusterBloodvessel]

OK, but no book can have every recipe in it, so that's not really relevant is it.

Genuine lol at this ??

It sounds a slightly odd way of writing (or in this case collating) a recipe book. Why?! If they’re complex recipes that she’s plagiarised then she’ll probably get found out. If they really are as basic as a Yorkshire pudding….then is anyone actually buying a book for that?! One search on google or YouTube would give a myriad of results for the same thing.

 

[Alyson Dyer]

I am an avid cook.
Cookery books are my type of porn.
If I want to access a recipe I will usually access it online (if I access it more than twice it merits inclusion in my hand written, personal recipe book).
I will only buy a recipe book these days in I know and like the chef.
Basic recipes are ten a penny on the ‘tinter web. No need for a basic cook book, if your want one, pop along to your local chatity shop and pick up a copy of Delia.
There are hefty tomes out there that cooking college students use as their bibles, you have a snowball’s chance in hell of usurping their significance in the culinary world as an unknown you have no chance until you have a Michelin star or two.

 

[Mark T Jones]

The problem I find with recipe books is that one book never has everything in it. Hence when you see peoples recipe books they usually have more than one. You could have a great book by Gordan Ramsay but it might not have the standard sponge in it. So even if a standard sponge is in many books you may not yet have that particular book.

Please don't say your 'angle' here is to cover everything apart from being nonsense, it just won't resonate

In the crowded market that is publishing, cookery has to be the most crowded corner. You are up against celebrities, brands and restaurants who have huge TV exposure.

There are still niches to be exploited, such as Bosh, but you need to dig deep to find one

 

[Deleted member 335660]

I think everyone has said something about the legal aspect, I would just mention publishing, it’s probably your main problem.

I was a Senior Lecturer at a University Business School and in touch with book publishers every week. I wrote a book in Time Management and not one would even consider publishing it because of our dear friends Amazon.

Unless you are a celebrity or master chef then the chances are Amazon is your only way of publishing it. Unless of course you pay to get it printed yourself.

 

[UKSBD]

I don’t know a lot about it or how it works but I have a book on order from Unbound.

It appears to be like crowdfunding for publishers.

You make a pledge and if the targets are reached the book gets published.

I’ve been waiting four months and pledges are up to 35% now, so hopefully I will get it eventually

 

[Deleted member 59730]

I have worked for major publishers and published myself recipe books.

I have an original 1949 HMSO booklet on pickles and chutneys. I have never seen a pickle or chutney recipe that differs from the HMSO standard recipes. The same is true for recipes like Yorkshire pudding. There is an approved set of basic recipes originally published by the WI.

Original recipes by major chefs are often embelished by good descriptive writing which is what makes them stand out. The major part of cookery book writing is the testing.

 

[Mark T Jones]

Self publishing is typically vanity or can be affective as part of a wider marketing exercise- to make money would require a massive marketing budget.

@Naive citizen I will share an idea I had during lockdown (one of many) which I was too lazy to follow through

use social media to create a kind of counter celebrity, warts and all cooking idea. My chosen strapline was 'what could possibly go wrong?'

Just natural, make it go up as you go along cooking ' which sometimes comes out burnt.

I had a couple of variants/a8ngles such as breaking down an Otolenghi recipe to make it easy, or comparing methods of making toad in the hole.

Actually, I'm quite enthused again now! How do I stop people stealing the idea I've just published on here?

 

[The Byre]

In today's world, all media products have to be multi-media products. You cannot publish a book on its own. You cannot make a film on its own. You must create a story world and then tell a bigger story.

EVERY successful media product you see, hear, read, whatever, exists across Twitter, Facebook, comics, books, film, TV, YouTube and countless other outlets and platforms.

There was a day when you could write a book and then maybe it becomes a film and maybe it does not! There was a time when you could make a movie and it could sink or swim all by itself. Them days is over!

The OP's friend should start with a YouTube channel, then go on to all the social media, cross-feeding the SM and the YT channel until she has a few thousand followers - then and only then, should she think about a book, promoting said book on all the other outlets.

 

[Naive citizen]

In answer to a lot of points above she said trying to read an internet recipe off your mobile phone is frustrating so lots of people still buy books. You can put the book down on the countertop and read from it as you're working without it going dark or having to change pages between the ingredients and the method. I don't think she's really doing it for the money so much. Just a fun project.

Anyway I'll pass on all these comments as there's a lot of useful contributions thank you.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

Self publishing is typically vanity

In my case self publishing was a serious endeavor. At one time I had 23 books in print all bar one of which were reprinted. One title made a PROFIT of well over £100,000.

 

[Mark T Jones]

In answer to a lot of points above she said trying to read an internet recipe off your mobile phone is frustrating so lots of people still buy books. You can put the book down on the countertop and read from it as you're working without it going dark or having to change pages between the ingredients and the method. I don't think she's really doing it for the money so much. Just a fun project.

Anyway I'll pass on all these comments as there's a lot of useful contributions thank you.

Your friend may be right - I use books frequently

However, the real question is why is anybody going to buy their book from the hundreds currently available?

I currently have 25 books - having just dispised if nearly that many

Somer broad - Jamie, Delia, etc

Others are specific - veggie, Asian etc

All are bought on the back of marketing

 

[simon field]

In my case self publishing was a serious endeavor. At one time I had 23 books in print all bar one of which were reprinted. One title made a PROFIT of well over £100,000.

Yeah, but you are 103, and the book was published in 1958

 

[Ian J]

Your friend may be right - I use books frequently

All are bought on the back of marketing

I probably have about 50 and most are bought from the remainder counters at garden centres with just a few at full price as Christmas and birthday presents.

I skim through them and if I see two recipes that I like the look of I will buy the book.

I don't tend to buy books based on the author as I don't find that a reliable way. My favourite celebrity chef is Rick Stein as he has such a wonderful way with words that he makes me hungry just listening to him but I have a couple of his books and have never managed to cook one of his recipes successfully. On the contrary I don't really like watching The Hairy Bikers but I have a couple of their recipe books and every recipe works well.

I digress but isn't that normal for a forum

 

[Alyson Dyer]

I get cookery books from charity shops quite often, I download them onto Kindle and access them from my iPad ( the pictures are better).
I find recipes on line and use them via my iPad.

 

[BusterBloodvessel]

Quite honestly, using the idea that “people prefer books over reading on their phone” still isn’t a worthwhile argument for your friend writing/reproducing a cooking book. The competition will be insanely fierce. What’s the USP? How will it stand out?

My dad self published a book just before COVID hit. It was a more specific subject and, as much as anything, a labour of love. It focused on a social history project called “worktown” that was undertaken in Bolton in the 1940’s and analysed how Bolton and many other northern towns have changed since then due to various social and economic factors. I must admit, I laughed when he ordered 1000 copies to start with and assumed 900 of them would be going to the pulpers a la Alan Partridge. He promoted it through Facebook groups for historical Bolton, talks at the local library, he had a stand in the local market hall running up to Christmas, local radio interview etc. In all fairness, I take back my initial mocking as he’s now sold around 3000 copies and gets a steady perhaps 30-40 sales per month and think did a couple of hundred in December coming up to Christmas.

So for him, as a retirement project, it’s been relatively successful and provides him with a bit of pin money every few months when a cheque comes through from the company he published it with. But in the grand scheme of things it’s nothing. Getting it listed in Waterstones, even the local store as a local publication never happened (although interestingly people can order it through Waterstones and they will get it in as special order, he’s sold quite a few this way).

I just don’t really see how your friend would get sales of any considerable magnitude without a huge prior following on social media or with something ground breaking or unique.

 

[DontAsk]

All you need is this https://www.amazon.co.uk/Complete-Farmhouse-Kitchen-Cook-Book/dp/0004112563 and, for basic stuff that any cook should know off by heart anyway (sponge, yorkshire pub, pastry, bread), Delia Smiths Complete Cookery Course. I bought the latter for my then girlfiriend and we have been happily married for many years.

 

[BusterBloodvessel]

Old thread, but I was reminded of it today reading this article;

Jamie Oliver: I'm not a fan of cookery competition shows

The TV chef says he had to be persuaded to launch his new cookery talent contest series on Channel 4.

www.bbc.co.uk

This is particularly pertinent;

“ But it's worth noting the high sales of cookbooks are limited to only a few big-name chefs. Sales data obtained by the Sunday Times shows that of the 5,000 cookery titles released in the UK in 2020, only 556 sold more than a hundred copies.”

 

[Ian J]

Sales data obtained by the Sunday Times shows that of the 5,000 cookery titles released in the UK in 2020, only 556 sold more than a hundred copies.”

I would imagine that a huge number of them were sold as remainders through The Works, garden centres and the like

 

[ethical PR]

I'll check what she means by 'almost' word for word.

It's good advise so thanks for that.

None of the images have been taken from anywhere else because that's clearly not going to work.

As my example above was for Yorkshire puddings I think the ingredients and method is basically universal so if what you'd written was so similar to another recipe that it triggered a plagiarism instance how would an issue like that end up getting settled?

You clearly know little about cooking if you think all Yorkshire Pudding or other basic recipes are the same. Why does your friend think publishers would be interested in recipes she has basically stolen from other people. There are literally thousands of people trying to break into the cookery book market who have their own unique recipes/variation on recipes/are highly experienced professional cooks.

 

[Ian J]

Thank you so much for these recommendations!

Thank you very much for thanking the people for their recommendations