Purchase of business and legal fees

jonnydepp

Free Member
Mar 13, 2015
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Guys, I want to buy a cafe business and I've agreed the price with the vendor already.
The figures are good, accountant has had a look and agrees there is scope for improvement.
The bank is happy to lend the money,
I've got a solicitor. There is no reason to not move forward.
The only sticky point is the agent who IMHO is using bullyish tactics.My solicitor agrees with me.
The agent wants me to give a deposit (non-refundable) and also sign/accept to pay the LL fees..in fact, have a look at the letter and tell me your opinion if this is normal and usual when purchasing a business:

The Vendor thanks you for your Offer and has indicated that a Sale would be agreed on the following basis:

· £xxxxx Leasehold for the goodwill, fixtures and fittings plus stock at value on completion.
· Lease Term – TBA New 10 year Landlord & Tenant Act Lease
· The Rent – TBA (currently £xxxxpa)

Evidence of Funds – Before we can proceed please provide evidence of available funds and confirmation of a relevant Bank Loan Offer for the total purchase.* (this only needs to be in the form of an Agreement In Principle from your bank or lender)

Deposit - In addition we also require a non-returnable deposit cheque of £1,800 to show good faith on your part, payable to our client’s Solicitors – Once we have received your deposit cheque we would reject all other offers and remove the business from the market, stop all discussions with any other applicants allowing you a clear opportunity to complete all the legal work. This amount is part of the price and is not additional, the vendors solicitor will deduct this from the final price e.g. £xxxx + sav.

Identification - Along with your deposit cheque, please provide a Photocopy of your Passport and a Utility Bill; this is now essential so we can satisfy the current Government Money Laundering regulations for the vendor’s solicitor.

Return of Deposit - The Vendor(s) would agree to return the deposit monies either if the vendor chose to Withdraw from this Sale for their own reasons or if there were serious issues with the vendors property title, lease re-assignment, granting a new lease, or trading permissions, all of which were problems entirely unrelated to you the purchaser.**

Legal Costs - Because this is a Leasehold purchase - It is normal practice for the purchaser to undertake to pay the Landlord’s solicitor and managing agent’s reasonable costs relating to the reassignment of an Existing Lease or the production of a New Lease.

References - The Landlord will require up to 3 References: 1 Trade, 1 Bank and 1 Accountant, and may require a CV and a meeting, please confirm you are able to provide these so we can obtain consent from the landlord.

If the above is acceptable to you please call us at the above office and confirm when we can expect to receive the:

1. Above deposit for £1,800
2. Photocopy of your passport and utility bill.
3. Evidence of funds or AIP
4. Your Solicitors contact details

We will then issue a “Memorandum of Sale/Heads of Terms” to all parties’ solicitors and progress the Sale to a satisfactory conclusion.
Why should you give us a Non-Returnable Deposit of £1,800?

XXXX (agent) has a considerable amount of experience in the successful Sale of businesses such as the one you are currently negotiating on and as the selling agent we will only make recommendations to the Vendor on those Purchasers we believe to be in the strongest position.
Ø Making an Offer on a business costs nothing
Ø Commitment to purchase is what is required
Ø It’s just a deterrent to stop purchasers “Changing their minds”

In the past we have placed businesses into the hands of Solicitors, only to find that weeks later the Purchaser has changed their mind! None of us can afford this kind of wasted time and money and as a result we have devised the following
process:
1. Withdrawal - our experience has shown that after the Vendor’s solicitor has been instructed and significant
costs incurred it is always the Purchaser who pulls out of the deal leaving the Vendor with an unacceptable and
unrecoverable solicitor’s bill to pay.
2. It’s Your Commitment – paying a Non-Refundable deposit of £1,800 shows good faith on your part and is
payable to our client’s Solicitor not EM&F and obviously comes off the final price.
3. Our Commitment – in return for the Non-Refundable deposit of £1,800 we would remove the business from the market allowing you the Purchaser a clear run at Completing on the business knowing that we are not going discuss the Sale with anybody else.
4. Our Recommendation – to the Vendor, on acceptance of an agreed Offer, is that the first person to provide us with a Non-Refundable deposit of £1,800 and evidence of funds is the Purchaser we should go with.
5. Refund - the Vendor would agree to return the deposit monies either if the vendor chose to Withdraw from this Sale for their own reasons or if there were problems which either frustrated or prevented the sale being completed due to serious issues with the vendors property title, lease re-assignment, granting a new lease, or trading permissions all of which were problems entirely unrelated or not created by yourself the purchaser.
 
Last edited:

Bob

Free Member
Jul 24, 2009
3,673
923
I can follow the agent's logic :cool:
Sticking point is that at present you do not have an agreed deal. While this applies:
Lease Term – TBA New 10 year Landlord & Tenant Act Lease
The Rent – TBA (currently £xxxxpa)

you are not really in a position to move forward. Whilst there is a getout
prevented the sale being completed due to serious issues with the vendors property title, lease re-assignment, granting a new lease
who decides what is a serious issue?
 
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Talay

Free Member
Mar 12, 2012
4,171
948
Another scammer business agent.

Seriously, the very fact that they have to try and explain why they want a fee should be ringing bells louder than Quasimodo's.

Is the price of the business £15,000 by any chance ?

Why this figure, well, because £1800 is £15,000 x 10% plus VAT !


Then you have:

Legal Costs - Because this is a Leasehold purchase - It is normal practice for the purchaser to undertake to pay the Landlord’s solicitor and managing agent’s reasonable costs relating to the reassignment of an Existing Lease or the production of a New Lease.

My answer - Bull5hit.

Everything about this is wrong. Everything.

Stand your ground. Get a commercial solicitor on your side if you can't deal with it yourself (not cheap though) and just stare them down.

I've just bought a business which was on through an agent and I just told them to step back, get lost in fact, and if and when we completed, they could go ask the vendor for any commission. Each side paid their own fees.
 
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jonnydepp

Free Member
Mar 13, 2015
15
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Thanks, the business is 95k including 3k stock.
If they were to give me assurances that if anything else undisclosed at this stage came to light I could get my deposit back then fair enough. Otherwise, I don't even know what I'm buying.
Also, if the Landlord's fees were given and were reasonable, again, fair enough. How do I know what they might see as "reasonable"?!? They could say 5k and call it reasonable, I certainly wouldn't.
Thanks
Has anyone else got any comments by any chance?
 
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Talay

Free Member
Mar 12, 2012
4,171
948
I'm sorry but what they are suggesting is to be allowed to rob you blind and have you shake their hand if the thievery is not too large.

I've just done nearly 7 figures on the last deal and my professional fees were approaching £50k. I'd have loved someone to pay those but no credible buyer would entertain the notion and neither should you.
 
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KeithGreen

Free Member
Jun 25, 2008
696
229
Andover
Ask for an indication of the landlord's fees. If they just relate to assignment of the lease then they should be a few hundred pounds. Reassignment is normally a fixed fee legal service so a quote can be given (we've just agreed a deal and the fee is £600 + VAT). Often the landlord's fees are shared by buyer and seller and are deposited with the solicitor at the start of contract discussions.

The fact that you have already engaged a solicitor and will (possibly) be paying an upfront sum to cover landlord's costs shows your commitment and I would suggest a deposit is not necessary.
 
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Talay

Free Member
Mar 12, 2012
4,171
948
Thanks, its good to know what other people do and what experiences they have with agents. My solicitor and some others have not commented positively on the agents (EMF), just wondered if anyone else has had bad experience?

Remember that not all advice comes impartially. Business sales agents proffering advice is hardly unbiased.

Sales agents are employed by the vendor, not the purchaser and as such, it is in their best interest to suggest to potential purchasers that buyers pay fees or that fees should be split 50/50 etc. when in reality, this is just bluster to vendors as a way to justify their often overly high fees.

Having been buying businesses for 3 decades, I have never, not once, ever, paid a penny for any vendor cost, legal or otherwise and that includes a number from agents who suggested it was "the norm" !
 
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