PRS....

[Stubpb]

Hi all im new here so im so sorry if i posted in the wrong place but i need a little advice if anyone can help me. To me the issue is very complex but it might not be.

Here is the issue.

My business started out 12 months ago and we won after our first month trading a for year contract to provide entertainment to a venue. When i say entertainment let me make it clear my business produces and directs live shows and events and offers event management services. The contract is very simple and we get the venue free, we provide the box office staff and tills etc, we provide the shows and events. In return we get all the box office takings, We pay the artists. The venue get the bar - Following so far

However all has been fine since January 2015 (the contact started July 2015 till November 2019) and just this week out the blue PRS have called the venue kicking off - The venue have yet to inform me of any of my staff what the issue is. All we know is PRS have been on the phone kicking off.

Im not sure what they need or want. But the venue already hold a PRS licence which they pay for so what do PRS want.

Do they do random checks? is it just to make sure the venue is doing what they say?

The other question i want to ask regards the above issue is we have been under the impression from the venue that we are covered under the full PRS licence the venue holds..
Is this right or not.

The venue has a full local council granted licence that lets the venue upto 2am 7 days a week from 10am do - A performance of a play - An exhibition of a film - An indoor sporting event - A performance of live music - Any playing of recorded music - A performance of dance - Provision of late night refreshment - Supply of alcohol.

So the licence covers everything we do and they do.

Sorry to be a pain but just need some advice. Thanks everyone in advance.

 

[Ashley_Price]

To be honest, I think they just call firms at random.

My previous business used to get calls from PRS saying we needed to have a licence, every frw months. When I explained we were (then) an audio typing service and our staff are listening to dictation etc. on their headphones, the PRS person still asked if we had a radio or similar playing publicly. They also wanted to check we didn't use "on hold" music.

Just check your paperwork is in order with someone who knows and you should be fine.

Certainly don't take any notice of out-of-the-blue PRS calls.

 

[Stubpb]

Hi Ashley - Thanks for that. Yea as far as we are concerned everything is up to date and in order. We have never had the calls and we couldn't get our heads around why they are contacting the venue if it was a issue with us as we are easy to find but i thought i would just ask. thanks for the reply

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

Seems like someone at PRS is being a bit of a knobrot TBH.

Do you have a PRS licence? If not this maybe the case, however seeing as you're using a venue that holds a PRS licence I'd have thought everything would be fine... I mean, it's not as if a wedding venue asks a DJ if they hold their own PRS licence is it?

If anything, I'd have thought the PRS licence that the Venue had perhaps didn't cover the kind of entertainment that you're providing? However seeing as it's a Council property... I don't see why they wouldn't.... either that or it's ran out.

 

[The Byre]

The people who call 'on behalf of' PRS are calling from a call centre and are on commission for every 'catch' they make. These people call companies at random that are not PRS registered and try it on.

Unless you are listening to music in the work place, or are otherwise commercially exploiting music licensed to PRS, you can safely ignore them.

 

[Simon Dunant]

I've got an extensive music industry background, I can tell you that the PRS license is the responsibility of the venue. It covers any live music that is played in their venue including any live music played by people who hire / appear at the venue. You as someone who is the organizer of the event or the performer at the venue is NOT responsible for the PRS license.

Like The Byre mentioned businesses of all types, especially if they are recently registered, get a call from the PRS, usually about playing music across loudspeakers in the workplace (radios, music from your computer etc, not someone sitting listening to their ipod on headphones) which technically you have to have a PRS license for, it's basically 'chancing' that businesses might be liable for paying the PRS fee if they do play music openly in the office, it seems to be a standard practice for the PRS, we had a few of these calls a while back.

 

[Opinion87]

I've got an extensive music industry background, I can tell you that the PRS license is the responsibility of the venue. It covers any live music that is played in their venue including any live music played by people who hire / appear at the venue. You as someone who is the organizer of the event or the performer at the venue is NOT responsible for the PRS license.

Like The Byre mentioned businesses of all types, especially if they are recently registered, get a call from the PRS, usually about playing music across loudspeakers in the workplace (radios, music from your computer etc, not someone sitting listening to their ipod on headphones) which technically you have to have a PRS license for, it's basically 'chancing' that businesses might be liable for paying the PRS fee if they do play music openly in the office, it seems to be a standard practice for the PRS, we had a few of these calls a while back.

What this guy said. I'm a venue owner, it's our responsibility.

 

[billmccallum1957]

http://www.prsformusic.com/USERS/BUSINESSESANDLIVEEVENTS/LIVEVENUESEVENTS/Pages/default.aspx

 

[paulears]

People often forget that the usual PRS issues they talk about are to do with playing prerecorded music as background, and having the little sticker. I do very similar work to stubpb, and worked quite hard with one venue to sort an identical issue. They had the background music license, but PRS eventually realised they were having shows on the premises. They should have been paying 1% of the box office for a 100% music production (it's a little more complex than that, but that's pretty accurate). They had never paid a penny since a change of ownership ten years before. PRS negotiated, and the result was that the arrears were NOT included in the deal - it was a genuine, although potentially expensive mistake. The deal agreed was for 1% of the box office for every show - over what is actually required, but financially possible and simple to calculate. So PRS are getting a little extra each year, but my calculations show that it's probably around 5-8% based on the show types.

As everyone has said, it is the venues responsibility to submit the returns, although contractually, it's frequently on the contra account. It sounds here like the venue and the production company stubpb is running just didn't understand how it works.

However, there could be a problem because the box office staff work for you. Who do credit card payments go to? Your account or the venue's? I'm pretty sure that the PRS agreement with the venues is based on their ability and willingness to provide the returns. Your venue will be unable to do this, and as the box office take is PRS's key data, this 1% could (and I suspect would) fall upon you. I'd be genuinely surprised if PRS could sign an agreement with somebody who could not report financials?


It's normally the venue who is responsible because they operate the infrastructure. In your case, they could form the opinion you are the operator, dry hiring an empty space. (for free). I guess you'd need to look at your other contracts. Do the artistes work for you or the venue. If the audience complain, who to? Who pays for advertising? These are normally the venue - in this case they probably won't be, so my reading is that this could fall to you. I'm pretty certain that Glastonbury's PRS is paid by the production company, NOT the owner of the land. The usual rule that it's the venue is because it normally is. Your deal is a bit unusual.

You mention the venue has a full PRS license. I'd wonder if this is actually correct. If this is the case, then they would HAVE to contact you every event for full details of how much you took and how many people, and for a mixed music/comedy event, for example, the deal might then be 50% of 1% of the box office take, if they each do 60 mins! The fact they have not asked you, suggests they are not running the right scheme.

A few venues even have reporting contracts where they itemise each piece of music used and how long each one was. Not many do this now, but a few venues have to do this, and it is a pain.

Finally, the Council License. These are now all tagged onto the alcohol license as extras, and rarely mean anything at all - the license is simply a license to run certain types of event. Nothing whatsoever to do with the licensing of the music. Strictly speaking you should also have a license with PPL, if you play any recorded music - yet another license many don't even know about.

PRS have loads of different tariffs for different types of usage. The deal the venue I'm involved with costs them quite a bit - over a year, but 1% isn't bad. Think a comedian taking £30 grand at the box office, PRS get less than £300 - once the credit card surcharges and other sundries are taken into account. As they work on a split (quite a small one one) their PRS is about sixty quid - however, as there is NO music, they really should not be paying anything - ten years of missed payments costs them!