PPC - Let's Help Each Other!

webgeek

Free Member
May 19, 2009
4,091
1,464
Glasgow, Scotland, UK
Here's a game changer:

If you are offering consumer goods (B2C) and know that you have a lot of competition from high street shops, then:

Set geographical targeting to areas outside the cities and large towns

By doing so, you'll be reaching those with limited shopping opportunities, limited competition, and often much higher conversion rates.
 
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J

Jet Virtual

Here's a game changer:

If you are offering consumer goods (B2C) and know that you have a lot of competition from high street shops, then:

Set geographical targeting to areas outside the cities and large towns

By doing so, you'll be reaching those with limited shopping opportunities, limited competition, and often much higher conversion rates.

Thanks Webgeek! Any Game Changers for B2B's :)
 
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J

Jet Virtual

Use Facebook Ads instead of Adwords, laser target your ads to just show for people who work for certain companies (your prospect list).

It's the ultimate in reducing extraneous clicks.

Wow this is really a shocker! You think facebook ads are more effective than adwords??

Our prospective clients are owners of businesses not people who work in companies so not sure if it would work for us?
 
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webgeek

Free Member
May 19, 2009
4,091
1,464
Glasgow, Scotland, UK
When you have the capability of only showing ads to that tightly knit a group of people on one platform, the advantage is just too great.

Most people can't do this, because they don't have a neatly defined list of prospects, but in cases where your prospect list is a known quantity, it's almost unbeatable.

In general I find Google Display Network and Facebook Ads very similar total ROI for B2B and B2C. Neither are going to rival the Google Search Network (most of the time anyway).
 
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H

Herbie_Aftertaste

Hi
Justmy tuppence worth but as with 20 years experience in "mail order" and more lately "ecommerce" or whatever else anyone wants to call it I just thought I'd share the secrets of what has served us well.
1) Product/margin is king and always will be.
2) 10% of gross sales towards marketing is a reasonable budget for any direct business - especially a growing company.
3) We have always treated Google as a commercial company - PPC orders can be forecasted, organic clicks are dependant on the whims of Google and the efforts of your competitors.
For us we start at £20 or hopefully lower per conversion.....as long as you trade profitably (telephone orders are gravy on top) then keep going.
Hope this helps.
 
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M

Metalfrogboss

Hi
Justmy tuppence worth but as with 20 years experience in "mail order" and more lately "ecommerce" or whatever else anyone wants to call it I just thought I'd share the secrets of what has served us well.
1) Product/margin is king and always will be.
2) 10% of gross sales towards marketing is a reasonable budget for any direct business - especially a growing company.
3) We have always treated Google as a commercial company - PPC orders can be forecasted, organic clicks are dependant on the whims of Google and the efforts of your competitors.
For us we start at £20 or hopefully lower per conversion.....as long as you trade profitably (telephone orders are gravy on top) then keep going.
Hope this helps.
Some wise words here. We expect to return a huge amount on PPC spend. Normally, this is market dependent but we get paid on results for PPC projects so we work hard to bring ROI. Seems to make sense to us. Not great advocates of PPC as a long term strategy in most markets, however.
 
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W

WebProfitsConsulting

I thought I'd share some data from one of my clients and tease out what I think is applicable to all those spending money on PPC.

The client runs an ecommerce store selling a range of home furnishing goods. All comparisons are based on October vs September. The numbers are big enough to be meaningful:

1. The lowest cost conversions, consistently backed-up by client data across multiple industries is the name of the company. This is despite the fact that a search in google lists the company as number 1 in the organic listings. Above this organic listing is the PPC ad, which is one cheap as chips as no-one is bidding on it bar us. Conversion costs are exactly a third of the best converting keywords anywhere else in the campaign. In another industry (where the company name is better known) conversion costs are a tenth of the next best performing keyword, despite number one rankings in the organic listings. If you're not capitalising on this you're leaving money on the table.

2. The next best performing campaign is the re-marketing one, where conversion costs are half that of the next best performing keyword. Re-marketing works like crazy if you set it up right. We're currently 'stalking' visitors to any page on the site, but will soon start 'stalking' visitors to specific pages with relevant add-ons and upsells. Re-marketing delivers a fantastic ROI. The only challenge is the ability to easily track what is converting without fiddling about with Google analytics and adwords conversion tracking.

3. Moving away from campaign type onto keyword match type, the new match-type launched by google seems to outperform every other type on our set of particular products. This is probably a less transferable conclusion, except to say if you're not using modified match then start NOW! This match-type seems to 'hoover-up' high converting traffic whilst delivering average CPC that are more akin to exact match. Every campaign should have a good spread of different keyword match type, which should be monitored and inform changes on at least a weekly basis.

4. Whilst volume of searches are a lot smaller for brand terms they convert much better than the generic terms. If budget control is an issue bid on brand terms. For illustration in September using a more generic keyword bidding strategy favoured by the client we had 12 conversions, switching to brands in October we have 57 conversions so far and a drop in cost per conversion by 2.5 times between the two months. Admittedly spend is up by 33% but with each conversion costing less than half the previous month the client is very pleased.

5. Being in the top 3 positions really pays once you know what is converting. The traffic boost, especially with one of the additional extensions is worth the higher CPC, which is only marginally more when you're tucked away between 4-8. Do everything you can to increase CTR including pausing ad's and keywords where the CTR is below 2% despite being in the top 3 positions. These will hurt your QS and therefore end-up costing you more per click.

Lot's more to share but enough actionable stuff for one post.

Hope the above helps someone squeeze out more from their ppc spend, especially as we head towards the lucrative holiday season.

If anyone wants a quick account review or wants to ask a more specific question about their particularly account drop me a pm. Happy to help.
 
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W

WebProfitsConsulting

I've got just about everyone of Perry Marshall's courses, and he's very good when you're starting out on PPC/adwords but not as good on the advanced stuff. To be honest once you start getting into some of the advanced settings and performance metrics there is a fair amount of trial and error. Of course once you start spending a certain amount of money with google they will assign an account manager to work with you (generally on spending more money with Google) and they can often provide some insight on what's working well for others and what's in the pipeline with Google.
 
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PPCForYourBusiness

Free Member
Jan 5, 2013
16
3
Hi everyone. I'm new to the forums and will be looking to set up a business as a PPC consultant over the next 6-12 months. Before I get into the deep end, it would be great to know the sorts of issues you guys have and the value you'd place on having them solved by externally.

For the next couple of months, I will answer any question you have on PPC for free. That means anything - even whether it's worth bothering with (for some businesses, it may not be).

I'll keep my background fairly private as I'm still employed as an Account Manager for one of the largest businesses in the UK as part of one of the biggest worldwide Media Groups. To give you an indication, I've worked across a large portfolio, with clients ranging from £10k a year to 8 figure accounts. I've worked on PPC, Facebook, YouTube (seriously worth a try) and the full range of Google Display Network products and been nominated for a number of industry awards.

If there is a lot of interest we can start a separate thread, but I don't want to be the guy that joins a forum and starts clogging it up straight away!

Finally, a couple of promises:
I will not spam, pitch for any business, or ask anyone for money for anything - I'm doing this as part of a long term goal of starting a business, and I'm far more interested in your problems than making short term cash.
My advice will be honest and independent. My uncle runs his own PPC with a lot of success, having learned it from scratch and in many cases, this will be the most efficient way to do it - I'm not going to tell anyone to start spending hundreds in fees.

Hopefully I can be of help to people - feel free to PM me if you need,
Kind regards,
Peter
 
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Matt_Murdoch

Free Member
Aug 16, 2012
22
0
Hi everyone. I'm new to the forums and will be looking to set up a business as a PPC consultant over the next 6-12 months. Before I get into the deep end, it would be great to know the sorts of issues you guys have and the value you'd place on having them solved by externally.

For the next couple of months, I will answer any question you have on PPC for free. That means anything - even whether it's worth bothering with (for some businesses, it may not be).

I'll keep my background fairly private as I'm still employed as an Account Manager for one of the largest businesses in the UK as part of one of the biggest worldwide Media Groups. To give you an indication, I've worked across a large portfolio, with clients ranging from £10k a year to 8 figure accounts. I've worked on PPC, Facebook, YouTube (seriously worth a try) and the full range of Google Display Network products and been nominated for a number of industry awards.

If there is a lot of interest we can start a separate thread, but I don't want to be the guy that joins a forum and starts clogging it up straight away!

Finally, a couple of promises:
I will not spam, pitch for any business, or ask anyone for money for anything - I'm doing this as part of a long term goal of starting a business, and I'm far more interested in your problems than making short term cash.
My advice will be honest and independent. My uncle runs his own PPC with a lot of success, having learned it from scratch and in many cases, this will be the most efficient way to do it - I'm not going to tell anyone to start spending hundreds in fees.

Hopefully I can be of help to people - feel free to PM me if you need,
Kind regards,
Peter

Hi Peter,

What advice would you give for building out a PPC campaign if the budget increases considerably?

Especially If the account is already pretty big. Would it be a case of thinking outside of the box a bit more and maybe testing less relevant or more generic keywords?

Thanks
 
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Baz Watkins

Free Member
Jan 3, 2011
731
118
Aberystwyth
Others may disagree, but here's a few of the top of my head:

  1. Know what makes your business different, better etc. This will help when it comes to writing ads and choosing keywords.
  2. Preparation is key; plan your campaigns like a major would his army’s next battle.
  3. Research your competition thoroughly.
  4. Geo target.
  5. Ignore broad keywords that way lies ruin, go exact, phrase and negative.
  6. Big keyword lists are great, but drill them down, be ruthless and you should get a list of 100 keywords per campaign that encapsulate what you do or what you offer.
  7. Keep reviewing your keywords lists, buying habits shift and move, so should your keywords and ads.
  8. Split test everything.
  9. Tailor ads to landing pages.
  10. Tailor ads to locations.
  11. Tailor ads to key business periods e.g. summer, christmas etc.
  12. Tailor ads to your company’s strengths.
  13. Don't get stuck on being number 1, position 2, 3, 4 are all ok, so is top of page 2.
  14. Optimise everything that comes after someone has clicked through.
  15. Don't fall for the recommended cpc.
  16. Split your budget into long and short term spends.
  17. If you’re doing it yourself, make all your mistakes when using a free voucher, don’t throw your own money away.
  18. If you’re paying someone else, pay hourly instead of % of spend if you can, if % is all you can get, make sure the company is properly earning your hard earned.
  19. Don’t expect to pay less than £25 an hour for someone who knows what they are doing, probably nearer double if I’m honest.
  20. If you’re paying someone else, don’t be tight, you’re buying a professional and a very specialised service.
  21. If you’re paying someone else get solid testimonials.
  22. Think long term, so budget accordingly.
  23. PPC is not cheap, but it can be cost effective and if done properly will deliver value.
  24. Google is not your friend, unless you know how to play the game, even then you might get spanked occasionally.
  25. Take advantage of free advice, use software tools if you can, learn about how things work before you spend...the list goes on.
There are more, but fundamentally PPC will work if you are very careful and very organised, and approach it with a high degree of common sense.
 
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PPCForYourBusiness

Free Member
Jan 5, 2013
16
3
Hi Peter,

What advice would you give for building out a PPC campaign if the budget increases considerably?

Especially If the account is already pretty big. Would it be a case of thinking outside of the box a bit more and maybe testing less relevant or more generic keywords?

Thanks

Hi Matt,

It's quite a broad question, but I'll try to give you as comprehensive an answer as possible.

I would always start by prioritising the campaigns in your account which work best from an ROI point of view. Hopefully you have conversion tracking in place, or at least some idea of what is driving your business. Once you know which campaigns are your best, go through the top ones looking for opportunity to expand. Always have the following questions in the back of your mind:

-Is this campaign profitable?
-Am I losing any impression share to budget? (you can bring this column into the Adwords interface under competitive metrics). If yes, increase the budget so you're appearing 24-7
-Are my ads appearing at the top of the page? (consider anything above about position 1.6 as top of the page, as clicks get exponentially more expensive thereafter)
-If no, would I make more money if my ads were in a higher position - would the greater number of clicks outweigh the increase in CPC?

If all of your campaigns are maxed out, you then need to look for new opportunities:

-Are there any keywords I'm matching to (do a Search Query Report) which I could actively bid on & build a campaign around?
-Are there any keywords Google recommends in the Opportunities tab? (99% of the time this won't be much help, but here's hoping!)
-Are my competitors bidding on any keywords that I'm not?
-Could I use a little more phrase and broad match (with an eye on appropriate negatives) to expand the account and look for additional terms to bid on?

Hopefully this will drive more volume. If you've maxed out all of the above, I would then look at the Google Display Network. Managed carefully, this can be a goldmine. Managed badly, and it can spend a lot of money very quickly.
1) Look into remarketing anyone who has come to your site and not followed through with a purchase/whatever else you consider a conversion.
2) Try a small amount of contextual targeting. Pick your best performing generic keywords and set low bids (definitely sub-£1, possibly even sub-£0.50). Run them for a few weeks and see if they are performing.
3) Test audience targeting, with similar principles. This is historically less effective than contextual, but worth a try.

If the above work, and you get more than 15 conversions within a 30 day period you will be eligible for the Display Campaign Optimiser. This is an automated tool that enables Google to use it's vast amount of data to go out and find orders within a target cost per order. Volume is normally huge, and it is extremely efficient.

If none of the above work, you may be struggling. I've had accounts in the past that have got to this point, where every conceivable keyword is in its most efficient position and the GDN is maxed out. After this you could look into Bing, which works similarly to Google, or potentially try YouTube TrueView ads (the skippable ones) if you're feeling creative.

Hopefully this will help you find an idea or two. One final thought - remember, ROI is everything. Never spend a penny that you don't think will add to your business' profits. If you've maxed out PPC, it may be time to look elsewhere.

Let me know your thoughts,
Cheers,
Peter
 
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Matt_Murdoch

Free Member
Aug 16, 2012
22
0
Hi Matt,

It's quite a broad question, but I'll try to give you as comprehensive an answer as possible.

I would always start by prioritising the campaigns in your account which work best from an ROI point of view. Hopefully you have conversion tracking in place, or at least some idea of what is driving your business. Once you know which campaigns are your best, go through the top ones looking for opportunity to expand. Always have the following questions in the back of your mind:

-Is this campaign profitable?
-Am I losing any impression share to budget? (you can bring this column into the Adwords interface under competitive metrics). If yes, increase the budget so you're appearing 24-7
-Are my ads appearing at the top of the page? (consider anything above about position 1.6 as top of the page, as clicks get exponentially more expensive thereafter)
-If no, would I make more money if my ads were in a higher position - would the greater number of clicks outweigh the increase in CPC?

If all of your campaigns are maxed out, you then need to look for new opportunities:

-Are there any keywords I'm matching to (do a Search Query Report) which I could actively bid on & build a campaign around?
-Are there any keywords Google recommends in the Opportunities tab? (99% of the time this won't be much help, but here's hoping!)
-Are my competitors bidding on any keywords that I'm not?
-Could I use a little more phrase and broad match (with an eye on appropriate negatives) to expand the account and look for additional terms to bid on?

Hopefully this will drive more volume. If you've maxed out all of the above, I would then look at the Google Display Network. Managed carefully, this can be a goldmine. Managed badly, and it can spend a lot of money very quickly.
1) Look into remarketing anyone who has come to your site and not followed through with a purchase/whatever else you consider a conversion.
2) Try a small amount of contextual targeting. Pick your best performing generic keywords and set low bids (definitely sub-£1, possibly even sub-£0.50). Run them for a few weeks and see if they are performing.
3) Test audience targeting, with similar principles. This is historically less effective than contextual, but worth a try.

If the above work, and you get more than 15 conversions within a 30 day period you will be eligible for the Display Campaign Optimiser. This is an automated tool that enables Google to use it's vast amount of data to go out and find orders within a target cost per order. Volume is normally huge, and it is extremely efficient.

If none of the above work, you may be struggling. I've had accounts in the past that have got to this point, where every conceivable keyword is in its most efficient position and the GDN is maxed out. After this you could look into Bing, which works similarly to Google, or potentially try YouTube TrueView ads (the skippable ones) if you're feeling creative.

Hopefully this will help you find an idea or two. One final thought - remember, ROI is everything. Never spend a penny that you don't think will add to your business' profits. If you've maxed out PPC, it may be time to look elsewhere.

Let me know your thoughts,
Cheers,
Peter

Hi Peter,

Really comprehensive answer, thanks for taking the time to address my questions!

Matt
 
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Matt_Murdoch

Free Member
Aug 16, 2012
22
0
No worries Matt, please let me know how you get on!

Peter

Sorry I've just got a further question regarding google remarketing :)

If i set up an audience in the shared library to target a specific product, then create an ad group for this product. Once I've associated the audience with the ad group, will the ads only show to people who visited this page (and no others) or will ads be served to visitors of the product page regardless of the other pages they visited?

Hope that makes sense!

Matt
 
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PPCForYourBusiness

Free Member
Jan 5, 2013
16
3
Hi Matt,

Apologies for the delayed response, it's been a pretty hectic week.

If I understand your question correctly, your ads will show to anyone who's visited the page regardless of any other activity. If you want to reach people who have been to the one page and no others, you'll need to create a custom combination - probably easiest if you're remarketing from Google Analytics rather than conversion tags.

Let me know if that answers things...
Cheers,
Peter
 
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Computer Conquest

Free Member
Nov 21, 2012
53
2
1. Default settings in Adwords allow your adverts to be displayed on Google Search Partner networks.
These comprise mostly of Ebay and Amazon. If you do not want your products shown on these sites then you need to disable this feature. Go to you campaign settings and deselect Google search partners under "networks".

2. Google keyword matching options:

When selecting your keywords it is important to tell Google how you want them to trigger your ads. I strongly advice you to read this short article from google: http://support.google.com/adwords/answer/2497836/?hl=en

For example: If my keyword is KITTENS BATHTUB. Since I have not specified with brackets or quotes around the keywords, Google will use a broad match. Therefore my ad will display on animal websites AND kitchen/bathroom websites as it takes kittens and bathtub seperately. Read the article and adjust your keywords accordingly. This will save you money and get your ads to the correct people

3. Keyword Quality score:

Go to any of you AdGroups and select the Keywords tab. There is a tab called 'Columns' with a little arrow. Select this and add the "Quality Score column". This will show you a score out of 10 for each keyword. 10 is good 1 is bad. Keywords with scores less than 3 will often never trigger your ad. This score is based on what Google deems is relevant. To improve the score make sure you AdGroup titles, the keywords, the URLs you ad points to are all linked to each other. e.g:

Adgroup: "Kittens" Keyword "cat food" URL= pets.com


That's it from me for now. Let me know if you found this useful. Please post your own Adwords tips!
 
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Chris Ashdown

Free Member
  • Dec 7, 2003
    13,392
    3,007
    Norfolk
    Great post, we have just started to run our own adwords account after spending many 10's of thousands of pounds with poor results

    What we have found so far are hundreds of duplicated keywords across three sites so competing against ourself which must have run the costs up

    Over 2000 keywords without a landing page attached

    Keywords on items we dont sell

    Ad groups without ads to many to mention

    Lack of many obvious negative words

    So must question what some EXPERTS do for their money, two weeks of my time has unearthed quite a few failings from over 7 years, and all these experts want to be well paid monthly to look after the account, yet cannot seem to do the basic checks

    I can understand a couple of months are required when starting a campaign to observe what is required, but after initial period I would have thought a check every three months would be adequate to keep current and the same with SEO

    Maybe the mighty welsh wizard would consider starting a "PPC do it yourself" forum header
     
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    Computer Conquest

    Free Member
    Nov 21, 2012
    53
    2
    I took a long look at our keywords recently.

    I found that a 'Broad match' was costing lots of money like has been mentioned in this post before.

    So when you speak about Pay Per Phrase I would definitely agree.

    However, there is less flexibility for users looking for sites like yours or mine. Each ad-group, I have been told, should only have about 15-20 keywords/phrases. As a result I have about 5 ad groups pointing at my landing page that is entirely made up of exact phrases.

    Does anyone know if this is limiting the users that find my site?
     
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    W

    WebProfitsConsulting

    One thing that I would recommend everyone who self manages PPC to put in place, is some automated rules, that will regularly sweep your account and improve it's performance. You can set up rules that trigger on an frequency you choose, and using just about any historical data set to inform what action should be taken.

    For example you could have a rule that pauses keywords that have zero conversions in the past 90 days. Or maybe a rule that reduces your CPC if the CTR over X period is below Z%.

    By setting these up you can ensure that your not wasting money on things that won't work.

    Clearly there are seasonal effects and just because something hasn't worked in the last 90 days it's not to say it will never work. This said if you've got keywords costing you money that have never converted in the history (5 years for one of my new PPC clients) of the account then it's a sure thing that things are unlikely to change going forward.

    I ran exactly this analysis on a new account that I've taken over and found 955 keywords that have never converted (ever) and are still sitting there accumulating costs without a hope in hell of every delivering an ROI. This was a self managed account, but going by Chris' experience even those that are 'professionally' managed fall into this trap.

    I'm hoping to publish a weekly and monthly checklist that can be used to help with PPC optimisation....just need to find a window to put pen to paper!

    Hope that helps.
     
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    directmarketingadvice

    Free Member
    Aug 2, 2005
    10,887
    3,530
    I ran exactly this analysis on a new account that I've taken over and found 955 keywords that have never converted (ever) and are still sitting there accumulating costs without a hope in hell of every delivering an ROI.

    Just because a keyword has never converted doesn't mean it's not a good keyword.

    Firstly, you need to look at how many clicks it's received. If there haven't been enough clicks to draw a statistically reliable conclusion, it tells you nothing about the future.

    Secondly, you need to ask why it's not converting. It could be a good keyword with the wrong ad or wrong landing page. (Or the wrong match type, or supported by the wrong negatives.)

    I had a client who was encouraged by google to delete keywords that hadn't had conversions over the previous couple of months. I looked at them over a longer time period and, surprise, surprise, many of those low volume keywords had been profitable.

    Keyword revision has to be backed up by logic, otherwise you can be like those people who come up with gambling or investment (is there really a difference?) systems which are backfitted to data with no rhyme or reason.

    (And don't work unless you have a time machine.)

    Just my 2p,

    Steve
     
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    W

    WebProfitsConsulting

    Steve,

    You make some valid points.

    I think it comes down to individual philosophy on account management.

    I'm very much from the pareto school of thought. I'd rather spend 80% of my time on the 20% of factors that deliver 80% of the profits. Personally I think most of my clients would see it this way as well. Sure I could weed through hundreds of non-converting keywords looking for some nuggets, but I choose to focus on the much smaller number of keywords that have a proven track record of delivery, whilst saving the client a few £1000 at the same time by pausing non-converting keywords. If they've not delivered 'gold' after 5 years of click-action then in my view the effort required to analyse why that might be is rarely a good investment of time.

    One good point in your response that I think everyone should take note is....never delete always pause. I've never deleted an ad or keyword in any account I've taken over. I've seen plenty of accounts where as you say, converting keywords have been deleted, and there's no way of reverse engineering the performance stats.
     
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    directmarketingadvice

    Free Member
    Aug 2, 2005
    10,887
    3,530
    One good point in your response that I think everyone should take note is....never delete always pause. I've never deleted an ad or keyword in any account I've taken over. I've seen plenty of accounts where as you say, converting keywords have been deleted, and there's no way of reverse engineering the performance stats.

    I'm not sure I follow; you can get historic data from deleted keywords.

    Personally, I rarely pause. I'd far rather delete things I don't want and leave pausing for things where there's the idea of restarting at some point.

    Steve
     
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    W

    WebProfitsConsulting

    Steve,

    Yes you're absolutely right I was thinking about re-instating which is easy with pause where as deleting requires re-entering.

    I've got into the habit of downloading all new accounts into editor just in case there is a need for a complete roll-back. A bit long-winded, but I'm not aware there is a roll-back built into the inline editor.
     
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    Tweak your bids until your ads are showing at position 3, 4, 5 or below (depending on how much daily budget you've got to work with).

    Lower positions = lower cost and reduced impulse clicks.

    This is good advice. It's what we call the Goldilocks method...not to hot, not too cold...just right ;)

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
     
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    Chris Ashdown

    Free Member
  • Dec 7, 2003
    13,392
    3,007
    Norfolk
    This is good advice. It's what we call the Goldilocks method...not to hot, not too cold...just right ;)

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

    But it's not about "Clicks" it's all about conversions,

    Clicks is costs, Conversions is Turnover

    May well be better at position No1 than Position No5; and each conversion cost less
     
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    directmarketingadvice

    Free Member
    Aug 2, 2005
    10,887
    3,530
    May well be better at position No1 than Position No5; and each conversion cost less

    For a start, you'd probably get 15-20 times as many clicks in position #1.

    And the conversion rate could be higher in first position (depends on the market).

    But, even if it was lower, which is better:

    (A) position #5, clicks 1000, conversion rate 2%, gross profit per sale £100, cost per conversion (clicks) = £50, total profit: £1000

    (B) position #1, clicks 20000, conversion rate 1.5%, gross profit per sale £100, cost per conversion (clicks) = £90, total profit: £3000

    especially given (B) gives you 300 new customers to market to, compared to 20 customers in option (A)?

    Personally, I think the name of the game is to optimise your process so you can be as high in the PPC rankings as you can be.

    (Assuming there's no real limit to the number of customers you can handle - obviously if there's a hard limit to that, then the game changes.)

    Just my 2p,

    Steve
     
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    But it's not about "Clicks" it's all about conversions,

    Clicks is costs, Conversions is Turnover

    May well be better at position No1 than Position No5; and each conversion cost less

    Erm I think I was agreeing with Webgeek that positions 3, 4, 5 are generally more profitable. What did you think I meant?
     
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