Pitching your product idea to companies?

[Pam B]

I have an idea for a new product. The product is not technical but I am wondering how best to proceed in terms of commercialising this idea?

I have had a patent search undertaken and on discussions with the company who conducted the search they believe there would be commercial success with the product and the patent is likely to be approved.

I am now considering asking this company to write a patent application for me. Whilst the patent is pending I would like to approach companies with a view to them licensing my patent.

What is the most cost effective way of being able to approach companies with this idea? I intend to have a patent application submitted but whilst it is pending what do companies need to see as I would wish to license my patent to them?

If a product is so blindlingly obvious that it works do I need to go to the expense of paying for CAD designs or prototypes to be produced?

Obviously in an ideal world yes I’d like to show CAD designs and a prototype whilst pitching but these are not cheap to get produced and if a company could see how commercial a product could be are the CAD designs an unnecessary expense?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thank you

 

[amanda1112]

I'm by no means an expert but I would say to get the patent first before you approach anyone so that it cannot be copied and produced before you get a chance. Its a dog eat dog world out there! Just my 5 pence worth and that's what I would do. I'm sure someone else will be along in a minute with some more advice

 

[Pam B]

Thank you Amanda.

I only intend to contact companies when I’m at the ‘patent pending’ stage.

Patents can take between 18 months and 4 years to be approved. I have already been informed my idea / product does not infringe any existing patents so it could be produced commercially without a patent at this stage but I do not wish to proceed until at the 'patent pending' stage.

My dilemma is what do I need to have (i.e. in terms of what would companies like to see) in order to pitch my product / idea to companies?

 

[PayVector]

I would look into government grants for R&D. You may qualify for one which you can then use to get some prototypes knocked up.

 

[Nick Dougan]

Hi Pam,

I've worked with IP firms over the years and have picked up quite a lot of knowledge about the patenting process.

You can claim to have a patent pending as soon as you have filed your patent application, although some would advise waiting until you have received your patent application number so that you can quote that in documentation, etc.

You are then safe to enter into negotiations with any potential manufacturers/partners. They will not be able to use the intellectual property that is the subject of your application, with the proviso that if your application is subsequently turned down for any reason, e.g. if it were to turn out that the idea is not in fact innovative, the bar on using the ideas you have presented is lifted.

An alternative is to carry out initial negotiations protected by a non-disclosure agreement or NDA.

By the way: if you use an attorney to submit your patent application you are likely to have to produce drawings of your invention. They'll be produced for technical reasons rather than marketing ones, but you might be able to make use of them

The question of what prospective commercial partners would want to see is a very open one, especially since (quite rightly) you can't say anything about your invention at this stage. Many people who file patents for inventions fail to succeed in commercialising them - it's a small minority, I'm afraid, who go on to make millions.

Here are some ideas:

1.The search report will reassure potential partners that your idea is original and that you're not in danger of infringing another's patent will help. The granted patent will be even better, but as you say that is likely to be 18 months off, if not more.

2.In general I'd think that a patent application will be reassuring - it shows that you are taking it seriously, investing money in your IP. It also holds out the prospect that you will, in due course, have a protectable monopoly for your product.

3. A working model, drawings etc will always help.

4. The more information you have on the potential market for the product, the better. No invention or patent's worth much without potential customers. What price do you think people would pay for the new product?

5. Anything you can add to reassure your commercial partner that your technology is not substitutable by another solution to the problem that it solves, the better.

I'm sure that there's much more that one could add to this list. One of my clients works in this area and is adding answers to common questions about patents to their website. http://www.bb-ip.com/index.php/patents-knowledge/ You might find some useful material there.

Nick

 

[red-source]

Excellent post Nick, great to see such thought put into a response!

Pam, CAD work and Prototypes may not be as costly as you think, if you would like to have an idea of costs for either or both the cad and prototype let me know, I could let you know so atleast you have some guidelines.

best of luck with it, sounds exciting !

 

[vvaannmmaann]

Plenty to read here.Good luck.
http://www.ipo.gov.uk/

 

[ps_leccy]

I have had a patent search undertaken and on discussions with the company who conducted the search they believe there would be commercial success with the product and the patent is likely to be approved.

I know nothing of how such things work, but a word of caution - presumably it's in this company's business interests for you to take out the patent, as they get further custom from you.

So I would consider trying to get some impartial second opinions on comercial viability before spending the cash with them.

 

[Pam B]

It is of course in the company's business interest for them to write a patent application on my behalf and their biased opinion is something I am aware of.

How do you suggest I get impartial second opinions on the commercial viability of my product before reaching the 'patent pending' stage without disclosing what my product is? (I do not wish to divulge the details of my product in return for the other party signing a non-disclosure agreement.)

This is one of the reasons why, at this stage, I am reluctant to pay for expensive 3D designs / prototype models as I cannot be sure of the success of the product but believe I would be in a much stronger position when I contact companies if I had the patent approved.

Any suggestions you have would be appreciated.

Thank you

 

[Swisaw]

Once you have applied for the patent, patent pending, try to make a prototype and test it. If you are satisfied with the test write to relevant companies about it to license it or sell it or whatever. But always ensure none disclousre confidentiality agreement signed first. Try also to apply for the patent of how it could be made just in case. You could get back upto 60% of your cost from government. This is not an easy job if you don't have dosh enough.

 

[K-rado]

I have an idea for a new product. The product is not technical

I have had a patent search undertaken and on discussions with the company who conducted the search they believe there would be commercial success with the product and the patent is likely to be approved.


It is of course in the company’s business interest for them to write a patent application on my behalf and their biased opinion is something I am aware of.


Hi Pam B.
I'm a little confused here. :|

A "product" and a "patent" are not the same thing. If you look at it like this, the IP area covering the product reg. design and the component parts that make the product function is covered by Patents.

You say it is not technical, so where are you going with respect to a patent app?

The company to which you refer, is that a manufacturer or retailer? or is it an invention design /IP company?

as a note, going to a retailer with nothing more than a patent application number is lunacy. Your idea has little or no value. Going to a company with a the results of a patent search carried out by the IPO, A proof of concept prototype and some sales and marketing data will add value to your "idea".

Going to a company with a market ready product, Trials, Sales, Reg design, Trade marks, Copy write information will add significant value.
This, I am afraid takes time and costs money...

 

[Pam B]

K-rado thank you very much for your post above. Your critical review of what I need to do is exactly the kind of advice that I’m looking for.

Answering some of your questions:

Yes I do realise a product and a patent are not the same thing. I have an idea for a product and wish to have my idea / product patented so that it could not be copied by anybody else unless with my permission. Long-term ideally I wish to license the patent (if approved) so that another company can produce the product.

The product is not technical but I still wish to have a patent application submitted so that the product cannot be copied.

The company I refer to in this thread is an invention design / IP company.

I am looking for advice in terms of what a retailer would like to see and at what stage I should contact them. Should I go to retailers whilst at the ‘patent pending’ stage or is it better to wait to hear if the patent application has been approved? (I was informed by the invention design / IP company my idea / product does not currently exist and if I was to produce it I would not be infringing of any patents.)

I have the results of the patent search (undertaken by the invention design / IP company but not by the IPO). The reason being is that I knew I would not be able to write the patent application myself so by the invention design / IP company carrying out this search they can use it when drafting the patent application to ensure it does not infringe on any existing patents.

In terms of contacting retailers, my thoughts are I should only contact retailers if the patent is approved. I will also take CAD models with me. I have already undertaken initial research into my product; it is in a growing market sector and could be sold in all developed and most developing countries. In terms of quantifying actual potential sales of my product this I am finding difficult to do as my product does not currently exist so there is nothing I could compare it to. I could look at products in the sector it is in but then I’m not sure how I could obtain all this information in order to quantify the total sales of a similar product of all the companies that produce that product.

Any other advice you could share would be gratefully received and if there is any research I should be doing then please do let me know.

Thank you

 

[ps_leccy]

As far as considering feasibility - any suitable friends you trust, etc?

I've got a few friends, (and have acted in a similar capacity) who I have passed ideas, covering letters etc past before going ahead with them, or deciding against it.
If someone reasonable intelligent is able to do a bit of research, they probably don't need to be a specialist to give a balanced second opinion, at least to take your emotions out of the equation.

 

[Ian PES]

I don't think you should apply for a patent before building and testing something. Even the simplest item is never as straight-forward as you think. To approach potential investors or manufacturers without having tested an idea is really mad in my opinion. (You said that "The product is not technical" but it must be made of something: plastic? wood? textile? and some kind of function is involved, so it is 'technology' of some kind?)

I also believe that the first thing you should do is as much research as possible (products and patents) before you start developing it.

By the way, the company that you used, are they chartered patent agents? I think that it is not legal to write a patent on someone else's behalf (as a professional service) unless you are a chartered p.a.

There are other reasons for not patenting 'too early'. Once you have submitted the application you have up to 12 months until you have to proceed with it and that time comes around fast. Then you have to either proceed but UK only, proceed UK + internationally....or let it lapse.

...So I think you should:

1) do your research (demonstrate it is potentially new)
2) make and test it (make sure it works)
3) apply for a patent (through a chartered patent attorney/agent)

But trying to secure a license is really hard.

Hope you succeed however.

 

[Pam B]

Thank you Ian for your reply.

I have built a basic model of my product and used it how I intend it to be used and it works. The product I have built is nowhere near as ‘polished’ as the one which would be produced commercially however the function of it is the same.

In terms of the research I have done to date. I have paid for a patent and product search and on discussing the results with the company who undertook this search they believe a patent could be drafted which does not infringe any existing patents.

I could also if I wished produce the product now as I would not infringe on these patents and the product does not presently exist in their opinion but I would prefer to have a patent in place first.

Thank you again for your advice but in terms of the steps you suggest:

1.) I have done a lot of research to date (but am willing to do more) and this product is new. This has been confirmed to me by then invention design / IP company;

2.) I have tested a basic model of my idea/product and it definitely does work;

3.) I am now at the stage of requesting a patent to be written. I have contacted people who have used the company I am currently liaising with and whilst they have not been happy with some elements of the work this company has done for them they did say they were happy with the patent that had been drafted on their behalf. The company is accredited by the Institute of Patentees and Inventors and also the Institute of Licensing Practitioners.

Any further suggestions would be gratefully received.

Thank you once again.

 

[Deleted member 106855]

The more I read of patents the more confused I become. Recently Apple obtained the patent 'Portable devices having multiple power interfaces' which seems to outline using solar panels in small electronic devices; but, unless I'm mistaking, calculators have been doing this for years so in what way is this idea new and why is it protected as it seems a pretty obvious thing to do to improve prower? :|

 

[Pam B]

The more I read of patents the more confused I become. Recently Apple obtained the patent 'Portable devices having multiple power interfaces' which seems to outline using solar panels in small electronic devices; but, unless I'm mistaking, calculators have been doing this for years so in what way is this idea new and why is it protected as it seems a pretty obvious thing to do to improve prower? :|

Polite request:

Please remove this from the thread I have created and post it as a separate topic if you wish to discuss it.

I would be grateful if people would not reply to mrn90's question in this thread.

Thank you

 

[Ian PES]

Hi Pam

I beg your pardon.....You are further along than I realised.

 

[Deleted member 106855]

Polite request:

Please remove this from the thread I have created and post it as a separate topic if you wish to discuss it.

I would be grateful if people would not reply to mrn90's question in this thread.

Thank you

I cannot delete posts, nor can anybody as per the rules I believe, however I am apologize for posting as it seems as though my post is not relavent to you.

I wish you luck and all the best with your venture

 

[Swisaw]

Every one can draft for patent application as well as claims and abstract. But it is not advisable unless highly experienced.

 

[K-rado]

Pam B. I feel for you. I know the questions you really want to ask but cant for obvious reasons. The thing is Inventing can be a lonely place and your "idea" may as well be your first child ( if you know what I mean )
It is all very hard work and if this is your first time round, it is really really hard and what you think you know now is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to product inventing and product innovation ( R&D, Marketing, IP protection, Sales, Licensing, so on and so on).

Would it not be a great place in terms of a members club where you can freely share your idea with other like minded people without the fear of being ridiculed as some sort of a freak and not have somebody pinch your "idea". Inventors are a strange lot ( all right there Dave F?) but most are happy to help others and give guidance/opinions as they will most likely have been there before, have unique knowledge with respect to the whole process. Surely there is such a club or organisation. Dave might know. Do you think this would be helpful? One thing I know is next time round I am going to come back as a patent/IP attorney oh and something else but not for this thread

 

[Ian PES]

I am looking for advice in terms of what a retailer would like to see and at what stage I should contact them. Should I go to retailers whilst at the ‘patent pending’ stage or is it better to wait to hear if the patent application has been approved? (I was informed by the invention design / IP company my idea / product does not currently exist and if I was to produce it I would not be infringing of any patents.)

.....My own personal view on this is that contacting retailers with an invention is a complete waste of time.

Very, very few people (private individuals) ever 'sell' an invention (for a lump sum, royalties or a mix). It does happen occasionally but tends to become quite famous. It happens at the b2b level but only with fully developed products and usually after some sales success. (Witness Dragons Den -much more likely to get money if the item is already selling).

I think the only way to go (high risk and expensive) is to create a very good business plan and to approach investors for the money to manufacture it. You can then start selling it and approach bigger outlets once its a more proven concept (Ie a product with a sales history that justifies investment). This is also very difficult of course!!

The Black and Decker workmate example is a good one. Invented by Ron Hickman.....all the big tool companies declined it (including B&D)....So he went into production himself and was selling 14,000 units a year by mail order...Then B&D approached him!. What people don't often know about that is that RH was a design engineer for Lotus cars. That is, he knew what he was doing. (Same with Dyson -very experienced designer, same with the wind-up radio man, can't recall his name...Trevor Baylis...an accomplished engineer).....And he must have had access to some capital to set up his cottage industry...

Sorry if I sound negative. Its just that I think this is the hardest kind of business venture possible! (Also probably one of the most exciting and rewarding but very very hard to succeed in).

 

[Dave.F]

Very, very few people (private individuals) ever 'sell' an invention (for a lump sum, royalties or a mix

I have done it more then once with very well known retailers and brands

It can be done and to be honest if the invention / product is good enough it will sell itself.....forget Dragons (I want 40% of your business) Den

I do not believe you need to spend 1,000's, as I have done deals with less then a GBP£150 outlay into global brands, oh and I am not an engineer either

But every invention is different....maybe I was lucky more then once

Dave.F

 

[Ian PES]

I have done it more then once with very well known retailers and brands

It can be done and to be honest if the invention / product is good enough it will sell itself.....forget Dragons (I want 40% of your business) Den

I do not believe you need to spend 1,000's, as I have done deals with less then a GBP£150 outlay into global brands, oh and I am not an engineer either

But every invention is different....maybe I was lucky more then once

Dave.F

I have done it more then once with very well known retailers and brands........It can be done and to be honest if the invention / product is good enough it will sell itself .....If you hadn't made the preceding statement I would say that the 'it will sell itself' comment is fundamentally flawed. I have reviewed hundreds of inventions over the last 11 years and so many were really good in my opinion but 'sell themselves' they did not...Why?: not having the right contacts and/or not having funds for development and /or not having the business experience needed.

I do not believe you need to spend 1,000's, as I have done deals with less then a GBP£150 outlay into global brands... I am very happy to be corrected! I think its amazing that you have achieved that. It would be really interesting to know what the products were, who makes them and what your income from it has been and how you managed to connect with the right people (although I realise that you might not want to broadcast all that).

oh and I am not an engineer either ....(The examples I mentioned: Hickman, Dyson, Bayliss all were and my point was that they had a big advantage...and it still took them years and lots of money and effort and 2 out of those manufactured themselves)......It would be very interesting to know what your background is and how you managed to get the ear of the right people.

.....I was talking in a general way about the experience of the majority of people who attempt this (in the UK).

People make a lot of mistakes but usually the reasons why its hard to sell inventions are:

-Lack of money (they can't get the invention 'investment ready')
-Lack of business experience (can't engage with industry professionals in the right way)
-Lack of contacts...and the reluctance of industry professionals to talk to private inventors. (big companies often have a firewall of secretaries to deflect timewasters)
-And the well documented difficulty of selling 'unproven' ideas to UK industry..

If you have succeeded then it would be fantastic to know how!!!

 

[Ian PES]

I

I do not believe you need to spend 1,000's, as I have done deals with less then a GBP£150 outlay into global brands, oh and I am not an engineer either

Some examples:

One guy spent c. £30,000 on his idea (90% on international patents) and won an award for 'most commercial invention' (the 'Innoventions' show in Southampton) but his business plan was to sell it and the people he contacted weren't interested.

UK hotelier invested £40,000 in patents for 4 inventions but had not actually built and tested anything.

Those are the extreme examples...most people spend a few thousand, develop prototypes and apply for patents but then can't get beyond that.

 

[Ian PES]

I have done it more then once with very well known retailers and brands

It can be done and to be honest if the invention / product is good enough it will sell itself.....forget Dragons (I want 40% of your business) Den

I do not believe you need to spend 1,000's, as I have done deals with less then a GBP£150 outlay into global brands, oh and I am not an engineer either

But every invention is different....maybe I was lucky more then once

Dave.F

I took the obvious step of looking at your website -really impressive !

 

[K-rado]

I took the obvious step of looking at your website -really impressive !

Cheers for that Ian. For a moment there I thought it was "have a go at Dave Day"

Anyway, I think we all agree it is not as simple as all that. It does take a large helping of brains, time and money from brain wave to market. Each idea and application is different and will require varing degrees of expertise, investment and durations to make it happen. But..........Market research needs to be done early doors. Afterall, no matter how good the idea is, if there is no market for it, there is no point in proceeding..............

 

[Ian PES]

For a moment there I thought it was "have a go at Dave Day" .

No, not at all!

....But I feel strongly that anyone embarking on this kind of activity should be aware of the tough uphill climb they are (probably) facing (for instance check out Dave F's site and the led goggles product: 14 prototypes!)...I am genuinely amazed and impressed with what he has achieved! I know a lot of people who have tried and not managed to get there.

 

[Dave.F]

Did you see the Bog in a Bag concept on Dragon's Den?

http://www.boginabag.co.uk/about-boginabag.aspx

The "bog in a bag" website states:
BoginaBag, the unique portable travel toilet, was designed and developed with the help of Innovate Product Design Ltd.
www.innovate-design.co.uk

If IPD ltd is so great, why did they let her go on Dragon's Den:|

 

[Mustaka]

The animation on her site of a dude cycling, pulling over and curling one down says all I need to know about the product.

 

[Mrq6]

Did you use innovate

 

[Dave.F]

Did you use innovate

Did who use innovate:|

 

[Mrq6]

I have an idea for a new product. The product is not technical but I am wondering how best to proceed in terms of commercialising this idea?

I have had a patent search undertaken and on discussions with the company who conducted the search they believe there would be commercial success with the product and the patent is likely to be approved.

I am now considering asking this company to write a patent application for me. Whilst the patent is pending I would like to approach companies with a view to them licensing my patent.

What is the most cost effective way of being able to approach companies with this idea? I intend to have a patent application submitted but whilst it is pending what do companies need to see as I would wish to license my patent to them?

If a product is so blindlingly obvious that it works do I need to go to the expense of paying for CAD designs or prototypes to be produced?

Obviously in an ideal world yes I’d like to show CAD designs and a prototype whilst pitching but these are not cheap to get produced and if a company could see how commercial a product could be are the CAD designs an unnecessary expense?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thank you

Did you use innovate