Pip question

[Marco Boogers]

Hi, thanks for taking the time to read this. I have an question about a Pip. I work in a sales role, this year has been tough for almost everyone and 6 months in I'm sitting on 49% of my target. Not great but have previously been successful. On Wednesday this week, my boss called me and said that during a managers meeting the day before, his boss had pointed to my figures and asked him what he was going to do about them. Therefore he was going go place me on an Informal performance improvement plan the following day. We had our meeting and he gave me plan. He said it was informal and just an agreement between us but said I had to sign in. I refused to sign it and said I disagreed with it as my figures were not the lowest in the team and nobody else had been placed on a pip. He said that it was none of my business about what was happening with other people but I do know this to be the case.

In the end, I said I would take it away and think about it and return it on Monday. His comment was that I basically had no choice but to sign it otherwise I would be disciplined formally. The pip said I had 3 months to get my figures up to 70% which would mean over the next 3 months I have to overperform (compared to the last 3 months) by 100%. I feel this is unachievable based on the same reasons I'm currently on 49%. If it was possible, I'd already be doing it. I do admit that I am slightly disengaged recently which has probably resulted in a poorer performance but market conditions in our niche make it incredibly difficult at the moment. It's not just an excuse as almost everyone is under performing.

He told the pip at this stage is informal (why am I having to sign and agree it then??) and it would not be lodged with HR. If I fail to meet the terms of my pip in 3 months a formal process would start involving HR. If there was still no improvement it would lead to dismissal.

I am applying for new jobs like crazy at the moment and I pray that one comes up soon.

In the meantime, do I sign this pip I don't agree with and just give myself some breathing space to find a new role or do I refuse to sign it and risk immediate disciplinary action? Is what is happening even legal. As it's sales the performance is of course quantifiable. I am clearly underperforming. However, I still feel unfairly treated considering previous good performance. Is this a formal document or not? He keeps insisting its not but then why am I being disciplined if I refuse to sign it and why does it need to be signed in the first place. Surely an informal acknowledgement from me that I'd buck up my ideas would suffice?

It's clear that my time at this company is up and I see no other result than me leaving. However I need some time to find a new role. 3 months should hopefully be okay.

A - do I sign the document, agree to it try and meet the incredibly difficult objectives set in order to give myself some breathing space? In the meantime document everything that happens in case it results in dismissal and therefore a potential claim for being treated unfairly. Would this appear on a reference?

B- sign the document under protest as I'm being forced to and document it. Could me saying that it was signed under duress result in disciplinary action?

3 - refuse to sign it and face whatever happens? If I get dismissed in a month or so then I don't think I'd find a suitable job in time?

Thanks for your consideration.

 

[Newchodge]

Does the PIP do anything other than set a new target? Does it, for example, set out ways that you can achieve that new target. If not it is not a peformance improvement planb, it is a new target.

What do you object to about the plan? Apart from having one when others don't; about that, your manager is quite right., it is none of your business. By your own account your recent peformance has been poor, so needs improving.

I imagine that you are required to sign it to acknowlegde that you have received and understoo the content. It is informal in that it is ot part of the formal disciplinary process, but will be used, if necessary to document what help you have been given to improve before moving to formal disciplinary proceedings.

If the plan only contains objectives and no suggestion about how you achieve them, I would discuss this glaring omission with your manager, then sign it and explain in writing in teh document why it is unreasonable. If there are proposals about what you can do, and they are reasonable, then sign it and get on with your job and looking for a new one.

 

[Marco Boogers]

Hi, thank you for responding. It sets out a new target and that I'll get support from him by him attending some client meetings with me.

Point 2 on the pip is for me to maintain a minimum of 4 meetings a week (which he's evidence I've not been doing) this is easy to resolve as it's within my direct control. But the sales isn't. How can I be expected to get an average of 100% over the next 3 months to get my annual total up to 70% when I'm on 49% at the moment. Even if I increase my focus and work harder over the next 3 months I don't think it's possible due to a some factors which I won't go into here but the same reason everyone is falling behind.

I agree, a new job is number 1 on the priority list. It seems I have no choice but to sign the document but I wonder if it's a good idea to list my concerns in writing in the email I attach it to.

Also for context, I had no warning about the pip. Even had my one 2 one with him a week before and no mention of further action at all.

Thanks

 

[Mr D]

Not following your figures.

If doing 49% in 6 months is 70% after 9 months so hard? It sounds like that would be still below expected target.

 

[Marco Boogers]

Hi, my pro rata target so far ytd is £140k. £20k per month *7 months. I'm currently sat on 49%. £68k. In 3 months time 100% of my target is £200k. In order to be at 70% I would need £140k. So between now and April I need to get £72k worth of sales which is more than my normal monthly target (£24k per month) Hence my concern. I get that a target is a target and that's my job and professional responsibility. But if I'm being realistic, even if I work at peak levels between now and then I won't be where I need to be. I've always overachieved so I know what is usually required but market conditions are so much harder this year. My point is, I know the chances of me ending this process with my job are slim and one way or another I have to get out, but is this fair?

 

[Newchodge]

but is this fair?

Who said that anything had to be fair? Ask the Carrillion sub-contractors and suppliers!

 

[Marco Boogers]

I think this is slightly different.

 

[Mr D]

Ah 49% of where you should be at this point in time, get it now. Sorry, was reading it that 49% of target at 6 months which would appear normal.

Fair doesn't come into it, targets are either achieveable or they are not and being so far below target they are doing something about it before year end. Which is good.
And yes what happens with other people, who may not tell you whats being done to them, doesn't impact on what happens to you

 

[Marco Boogers]

So.... To summarise. The informal Pip is allowed? It is irrelevant that I had no prior warning that this was happening and that I am being asked to over achieve over the next 3 months is okay?

 

[Newchodge]

So.... To summarise. The informal Pip is allowed? It is irrelevant that I had no prior warning that this was happening and that I am being asked to over achieve over the next 3 months is okay?

Basically, yes. Your employers have their own targets to meet and you failing to meet yours impacts their business, potentially even their survival. So they need to do what is necessary to get back on target.

 

[Marco Boogers]

Okay, in situations like this. What are the chances of me successfully negotiating an early pay out? Both parties know what the end result will be. Why waste time and money for both parties?

 

[Newchodge]

The chances are between 0% and 100%. Without knowing the exact circumstances, it is impossible to say. You could have an informal word with your manager, if he is sympathetic, or with HR, in confidence.

 

[pen2670]

Or you could take it on the chin, book 5 meetings a week, get your sales figures up to 60% then evidence your improved effort, figures etc at the 3 month review, suggest ways to boost them further by the end of the year and, potentially, get a pat on the back for putting in more effort.

Whether anyone else is on a PIP or may be about to be put on one is entirely down to the companies discretion, but from what you say your disengagement and failure to try (book 4 meetings a week) is more likely to be the reason you're on one than everyone's poor stats.

 

[Mr D]

So.... To summarise. The informal Pip is allowed? It is irrelevant that I had no prior warning that this was happening and that I am being asked to over achieve over the next 3 months is okay?

You would prefer a formal pip?
Underachieve for however long in last 6 months, they want you to overachieve probably amongst other things to show you can do that.

They think you can either improve or leave, if you improve the company benefits. If you leave then they get to replace you with someone perhaps able to do better. Win win for them.
You benefitting or not is a side effect.

 

[Marco Boogers]

Thanks Ralph. I clearly can do it. As I said before, I've been consistent up until this year. Business conditions have changed. Everyone is struggling in my firm this year. It's not just me. I'm not even the lowest 20%.

Is it a good idea to discuss settlement? As far as I can see, it suits both parties. If this carries on it'll be 6 months before they can sack me. In the meantime paying me a salary, car allowance, fuel, commission etc.... I could perhaps ask for 6 months salary and I go now, they can get on with recruitment and get someone more suitable and I could get on with finding a new job. An unmotivated salesperson that knows he's getting sacked isn't going to help the business move forward. As I said before, I don't believe the new targets are possible to meet so this is only ending one way.

 

[Mr D]

Thanks Ralph. I clearly can do it. As I said before, I've been consistent up until this year. Business conditions have changed. Everyone is struggling in my firm this year. It's not just me. I'm not even the lowest 20%.

Is it a good idea to discuss settlement? As far as I can see, it suits both parties. If this carries on it'll be 6 months before they can sack me. In the meantime paying me a salary, car allowance, fuel, commission etc.... I could perhaps ask for 6 months salary and I go now, they can get on with recruitment and get someone more suitable and I could get on with finding a new job. An unmotivated salesperson that knows he's getting sacked isn't going to help the business move forward. As I said before, I don't believe the new targets are possible to meet so this is only ending one way.

Whats the advantage to the employer in paying you 6 months salary? What benefit do they get out of it?
As it stands if they take 6 months to get rid of you they can get 6 months work out of you for the money.

 

[Marco Boogers]

The benefit to them is that they can replace me with someone who is motivated to do the job. They'll also save money as if I'm there for 6 months they'll have to pay me commission, (makes up approx 20% of my monthly income). They could get someone in a few weeks who's ready to go. I see plenty of advantages for them. Also, saves them time having to go through am arduous disciplinary process.

 

[pen2670]

Agree with @Mr D and are you sure it would take 6 months to dismiss you? Sounds an awfully long time to put up with you if you continued to underperform.

If you were my employee and even after encouragement (the PIP) continued to not put the minimum effort in (disengaged and/or not booking the 4 meetings per week) and had been working here less than 2 years you'd be gone within the week - with contracted notice paid (1 month?). Employed more than 2 years and I'd be looking at disciplinary (capability) in way less than 6 months.

If after the PIP you got your head down, worked hard and improved your performance I'd be happy to keep employing you.

Given you say your performance was previously good, what makes you think they want you to go, not just improve?

 

[Marco Boogers]

Thanks for responding.

It will take 6 months because the informal Pip is 3 months, then 2/3 months for a formal pip involving HR. They'd probably love me to improve, however, I am 100% certain that I will not be able to meet the conditions on the pip even if I gave maximum effort. So therefore I see absolutely no way that this will end well for me. I asked my boss in the meeting that from start to finish how long before I could get sacked if this didn't work out and he said 6 months. Fyi I've been there for over 4 years.

 

[Marco Boogers]

You are right. However, my disengagement is a sign it was time to move on anyway.

Thanks.

 

[Mr D]

The benefit to them is that they can replace me with someone who is motivated to do the job. They'll also save money as if I'm there for 6 months they'll have to pay me commission, (makes up approx 20% of my monthly income). They could get someone in a few weeks who's ready to go. I see plenty of advantages for them. Also, saves them time having to go through am arduous disciplinary process.

Cannot see that as an advantage for them. They could recruit next week.
Six months to get rid of you and they could get another 50k in sales from that.

 

[pen2670]

Ah, but that's an off the cuff 6 months if you get your head down.

If you continue to be disengaged (or refuse to sign the PIP) they could move straight to disciplinary and reduce that to 2-3 months (or less, why not 1 month?, plus 1 months pay in lieu).

If you don't book the 4 meetings per week (depending on a myriad of factors) despite being told to they could class that as refusal to carry out a direct order, which in some contracts, is gross misconduct which could see you out on your ear within the week with no notice. Highly unlikely, possibly impossible (unless you openly refuse), I'm not an employment law specialist, but neither would I rely on an off the cuff timescale in an informal meeting....

They may be happy to negotiate to see you out of the door without a disciplinary and pay extra, but it may backfire. They could take that as an indication that you have no intention to improve and skip straight to disciplinary or may take offence at the suggestion of paying 6 months to do nothing - some employers would take your current lack of effort whilst claiming wages as akin to stealing, others would be more pragmatic, either way 6 months wages seems very high...

 

[Marco Boogers]

Akin to stealing.....?

 

[Marco Boogers]

Thanks for all your help on this yesterday. I've given it some thought. I know how I am going to proceed tomorrow. I'll sign the document, express my concerns about the targets but will work hard and do the 4 meetings etc and work to get the figures up.

In the meantime, I'll look for a new job and will get my mojo back.

 

[Mr D]

If at the end of the year no one hits the figures then maybe too high for the year.
Can you work out with your manager a plan of how to get from here to there - the easiest way to get a target accepted as bad is for the managers to figure that out for themselves.