People Per Hour

[Deleted member 162294]

In a different thread there was mention of PPH. PeoplePerHour.com

Checked it out for 30 minutes. What a mine field.

Some of the jobs that people post! with minimal descriptions that could potentially end up being way more trouble than its worth. And the prices, they have no idea how much things cost, it ends up being some kind of bidding war and the winner might be a monkey.

As business owners how do you feel about it. Would you ever outsource work to PPH or are the old ways still the best?

 

[RedEvo]

Using the adage caveat emptor it can work fine. Just as with any area of business there are good 'uns and bad 'uns on there. As you say, many of the people posting jobs are clueless fools who'll get what they deserve.

d

 

[kevuksul]

Poor posts will attract poor contractors. A more mature and efficient marketplace imo would be Odesk.

I have managed various projects through there successfully. If you would like good work at much lower prices than UK based designers, developers etc. I would suggest it. Start off working with the Eastern Europeans and Russians before migrating to the Indian/Asian labour pool. Former might be dearer but def more competent and only once you have gained some experience should you even consider hiring anybody in the southern hemisphere (aus excepted )

 

[fisicx]

I used PPH once and gave up tying to find anyone who could actually deliver on my requirements.

Everyone told me that could do the job but when I asked to see some examples I just got junk. They are probably good at sausage factory work but hopeless at anything innovative or needs a bit real development.

I've had similar with all the fereelancer sites - loads of promises but no evidence that they can actually do the job.

 

[jamiecooper]

I've used PeoplePerHour a few times quite successfully. In fact I would say I've had about 10 projects go through there, 9 of which were completed perfectly. The 10th got done but there was a lot of chasing and slow replies. But for the potentially savings I think it's a great option.

 

[ChrisBackman]

I'd avoid them at all costs, if you want to hire peopel in on temporary contracts then use a temping agency and make sure there's some level of accountability if the employees your receive are rubbish. If you avoid companies like this then you're making a good business decision.

 

[SourChocolate]

I've managed 20+ projects of various size to date there (placed 50+ job offers). Mostly around marketing, writing and programming. There have been few with some hoops, most went pretty smoothly.

Overall, it's all down to the candidate selection process. I don't indicate the budget, reject low & ridiculously high bids. I always ask a couple of specific questions in the description and reject bids without answers - usually template based bids - to eliminate those who can't be bothered to read the spec.

The remainder is contacted via pph's messaging system, a few drop off at this stage as well. With the few remaining ones, I have a quick phone chat about the subject and this usually is the last stage.

I've found number of decent and very experienced people there which can add a lot of value with very flexible terms. This typically applies to UK based freelancers though, I pretty much stopped dealing with people from Asia as this was almost always long a painful journey with loads of unfinished projects.

Although the freelancer base and the service is absolutely fantastic, I must say the new pph website (changed about a year ago) is one of the worst ones in terms of navigation and user experience. I find it absolutely terrible and can never find what I'm looking for. No words, it's a total disaster. Apart from that - recommended.

 

[Toon]

I've not used them but have used other outsourcers. I only use them when I am desperate and mainly for technical work. Sometimes our technical jobs can build up and therefore I might use a freelancer to clear the backlog. I prefer not to if I can help it.

 

[thelegalstop]

If you look closer to PPH, you will see there are some freelancers, who have very good reputation and experience in dealing with a variety of projects. If I need articles written for example, I have no hesitations to use a copywriter, however, if we need a new website - PPH is not the place to search.

 

[SourChocolate]

If you look closer to PPH, you will see there are some freelancers, who have very good reputation and experience in dealing with a variety of projects. If I need articles written for example, I have no hesitations to use a copywriter, however, if we need a new website - PPH is not the place to search.

I reckon cost effective outsourcing is generally tricky and difficult to manage when it comes to a job where all elements can't be written down and there is a large degree of creativity or interpretation involved. In such cases, it's down to the quality of freelancers and this comes with a higher price.

For web & graphic design I prefer to use 99designs where you can have lots of ideas from a number of people, then pick the one you like and polish it out. It's a bit more expensive but much wider choice of options.

 

[goodguy]

Used PPH a couple of times, and they are good at getting 90% of the work done at 50% of the cost.
It's the escrow is the best for businesses, where if work not done, they don't get paid( not needed to do that yet). But this is the part the traditional designers don't like.

Where the traditional web designers either want 50% upfront and delivery nothing, or start paying through the nose, to correct their errors. Got charged £180 due to a designers taking 3 hours, to copy a road map from google earth.

 

[thelegalstop]

I think it is more about being lucky to meet a serious person, ready to deal consciously with your project, not only to take your money and provide you a lousy service. Usually you can recognize such a freelancer by their enthusiasm. They simply start thinking about your project, as if it is their own. They see themselves not as the ones who are being paid to do sth, but the ones chosen to lead a certain company to success by using their sharp though, astonishing qualities and a passion for work.

 

[PBComputer]

I've used it many times for various jobs from proofreading to video editing, the trick is good communication not going for the cheapest or the most expensive. But I've had some poor experience but these are limited to one job.

Paul

 

[Jose Jimenez]

In a different thread there was mention of PPH. PeoplePerHour.com

Checked it out for 30 minutes. What a mine field.

Some of the jobs that people post! with minimal descriptions that could potentially end up being way more trouble than its worth. And the prices, they have no idea how much things cost, it ends up being some kind of bidding war and the winner might be a monkey.

As business owners how do you feel about it. Would you ever outsource work to PPH or are the old ways still the best?

One of the biggest problems with PPH are the rubbish descriptions. Quite often you get 1 liners from people who post jobs. No info about their market, customers, etc.

What I will say is that you can source good people and that I know through other contacts including a person who has built a team of people for a specific project. It's not all about cost. Reputation counts too and many people have different viewpoints on what constitues value for money.

A tight brief can help weed out the right people as can the process as mentioned by SourChocolate.

 

[JamesL456]

I've just signed up as a freelancer and agree with what others have said.

So many jobs posted have one line descriptions and I have to sit and write out a 'proposal' when I don't really have a clue what's needed.

I'm persevering with it anyway as I've just started out and if nothing else, it's a way of getting my name out there and winning my first bits of work (even if I have to bid peanuts to get them).

 

[andycan]

PPH can be a very random experience for both Employers and Contractors alike.

I run a Outsourcing business. We maintain Customer Operations, Handle Calls, Web/Email Transactions, Virtual Telephone Systems and Virtual Projects for a few SME's/ Start-Ups. We started our business because we found that there is a need for the People Per Hour model of finding experienced contractors for ad-hoc or remote based positions, but like many have said in previous posts, the experience of PPH and related websites can be tedious and random.

You don't know what your getting and once you accept a bid, there is a risk associated with this. We recognised this, and just offer Virtual Services on a trial basis, just signing an NDA, so our client knows that we can deliver what we proposed. Then after a week or so (if contract is ongoing), when the client is happy with what we can deliver, we talk about further commitment/contracts/fees etc

Working as a group of Virtual Workers allows us to take on new contracts and not worry initially about the cost of a trial period, because we share the work out amongst us.

I think the problem I have with employing people through websites like PPH, is that you are dealing with people who may be highly skilled, but often are not very good at managing themselves. That's why a Virtual Project Management group, works better, because you still have the element of management or control of the skilled people in the group or business.

 

[symonb]

I used PPH once and gave up tying to find anyone who could actually deliver on my requirements.

Everyone told me that could do the job but when I asked to see some examples I just got junk. They are probably good at sausage factory work but hopeless at anything innovative or needs a bit real development.

I've had similar with all the fereelancer sites - loads of promises but no evidence that they can actually do the job.

If you look me up on PPH you will 100% star feedback from companies ranging from High Net Worth investment managers to Cloud computing and most become repeat customers. Issues, I am bidding against people quoting stupid money for doing work ( I charge £25+ min charge upwards). Second issue is PPH take 15% and then hold onto earned money sometimes for over a week after client has paid. When people put up stupidity like 50 articles wanted for £50 they get what they deserve. If they pay anything near a commercial rate they deserve and should get professionalism

SymonB - copywriter/business consultant on PP

 

[Moneyman]

I have posted dozens of jobs and 90% of the time i am very pleased. The most important thing is to be very very precise on what you want to achieve and have confidence that the other guy understands what you are asking.

 

[zigojacko]

As a general rule of thumb (and I'm aware this thread has been resurrected from May 2013 by symonb), if anyone uses the terminology web design, web development, php, seo or link building on any freelance website, they're going to get hounded - mostly by offshore companies that haven't got a clue and quoting as low as can be.

It amazes me how many businesses still hire them and then complain about the quality of work they received.

 

[symonb]

As a general rule of thumb (and I'm aware this thread has been resurrected from May 2013 by symonb), if anyone uses the terminology web design, web development, php, seo or link building on any freelance website, they're going to get hounded - mostly by offshore companies that haven't got a clue and quoting as low as can be.

It amazes me how many businesses still hire them and then complain about the quality of work they received.

Exactly right, you get or should get what you pay for. IF you view words as 'content' then you deserve very little back. I know several professional writers - and I am talking people with pedigrees like ex gartner analysts struggling to pay the rent and being told things like give us free 'content' and you will get loads of new twitter followers. What the f*ck use are they down the pub?!!

 

[SkoshBusiness]

My experience has been mixed. I had one job where the person disappeared half way through. It was annoying because I was working to a deadline but PPH use Escrow so payment is only released when the job is complete and I am happy. If I am not I don't pay. Simple as that.

If you do plan on use PPH or any of these types of sites, my advice would be to stick to UK based people and to have a phone/Skype conversation with them before awarding work. You need make sure they have a full understanding of your requirements, define timescales and be able to communicate with them regularly.

There are some good people out there, you just have to get through the rubbish to find them.

 

[symonb]

One of the biggest problems with PPH are the rubbish descriptions. Quite often you get 1 liners from people who post jobs. No info about their market, customers, etc.

What I will say is that you can source good people and that I know through other contacts including a person who has built a team of people for a specific project. It's not all about cost. Reputation counts too and many people have different viewpoints on what constitues value for money.

A tight brief can help weed out the right people as can the process as mentioned by SourChocolate.

I agree with this, 90% of the time I have to ask the client to expand their brief, explain their brief - I only bother to do this if they sound professional. I have met some good clients working through PPH, always been paid and have 5 star feedback for every job. BUT I insist on understanding what is needed and not suddenly get 'can you justs' on a fixed price job.

 

[MattThomasFilm]

In regards to People Per Hour, are there any other websites that are good for UK jobs.

 

[iBusiness Forums]

I never tried PPH before, but I have heard of it and seen the site. Even the interface itself is quite disorganized. I have a hard time looking at it for so long.

Well, they get what they pay for....so that's up to the outsourcers or freelancers who take on them. But personally, if I am a talented outsourcer, I won't settle for cheapskates who will only squeeze out your skills for a fraction of the cost you;re really worth for.

 

[Vectis]

I'm wondering why this thread has been resurrected from 6 months ago? Surely not to promote someone (who apparently has '100% star feedback') on PPH?

 

[zigojacko]

I'm wondering why this thread has been resurrected from 6 months ago? Surely not to promote someone (who apparently has '100% star feedback') on PPH?

Of course, why else?

 

[MattThomasFilm]

I just wanted to know if there were any alternatives

 

[zigojacko]

I just wanted to know if there were any alternatives

Yeh, there's plenty of alternatives - they're all mostly littered with cheap junk though.

 

[MattThomasFilm]

Aren't most of those mostly based abroad (outside the UK)? I have been on freelancer before and I'd found a lot of work on there was stateside.

 

[SkoshBusiness]

Aren't most of those mostly based abroad (outside the UK)? I have been on freelancer before and I'd found a lot of work on there was stateside.

Yes that's right. Freelancing is much bigger in the US. I get to work out there at least 4 times a year and a lot of the people working in larger organisations have done some form of freelance work in the last year. I read a stat that 30% of Americans consider themselves freelancers even when in permanent employment and this is expected to increase to 40% by 2015.

 

[zigojacko]

Aren't most of those mostly based abroad (outside the UK)? I have been on freelancer before and I'd found a lot of work on there was stateside.

Most have UK versions. You'll struggle to find a strictly UK only freelancer website, any of these websites get mauled by the far east. Even .co.uk freelancer sites are probably 90% made up of Indian, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Vietnam and Phillipino members.

 

[Gecko001]

Most have UK versions. You'll struggle to find a strictly UK only freelancer website, any of these websites get mauled by the far east. Even .co.uk freelancer sites are probably 90% made up of Indian, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Vietnam and Phillipino members.

The problem with freelance sites is that most of the clients are cheapskates - no offense to those people here that use them as clients. They want something for nothing and are generally only interested in getting freelancers from Eastern Europe and Asia. Also I suspect that many of the freelancers are using pirated software or moonlighting using their employer's very expensive software to carry out jobs for extra pocket money.

There might be some money in the language fields, like voiceover work or translation - anything which requires good English. I am not sure about writing as it seems is very over-crowded.

 

[Socio South West]

What a frustrating experience!!! I posted on PPH for someone to build a fairly simple six page website...

I've received about 30 replies.. most just straight copy/paste and not answering specific points raised, a lot containing URLs that give either a 404 error or Site expired messages... a lot of very slow loading sites... and a lot of lists with not the slightest scrap of evidence to say the person in question had anything to do with them!

Some re bid with exactly the same dross as soon as they are declined.. one guy five times over with the same blind links in his proposal not corrected!

However, in among the thorns were a couple of sensibly priced roses with sound portfolios, and I now have a shortlist to discuss further with.

Certainly a case of proceeding with caution, and making sure you dot your t's and cross your i's

 

[zigojacko]

What a frustrating experience!!! I posted on PPH for someone to build a fairly simple six page website...

I've received about 30 replies.. most just straight copy/paste and not answering specific points raised, a lot containing URLs that give either a 404 error or Site expired messages... a lot of very slow loading sites... and a lot of lists with not the slightest scrap of evidence to say the person in question had anything to do with them!

Some re bid with exactly the same dross as soon as they are declined.. one guy five times over with the same blind links in his proposal not corrected!

However, in among the thorns were a couple of sensibly priced roses with sound portfolios, and I now have a shortlist to discuss further with.

Certainly a case of proceeding with caution, and making sure you dot your t's and cross your i's

Exactly, you have to weed out the 90% garbage to come across anyone decent. Approach with caution most definitely. Even many providers with hundreds of ratings churn out low quality drivel in the masses.

 

[10032012]

All freelance websites suffer from the bad apples... freelancer.com for example, everyone (except a handful - i.e. the vast majority) use bots to bid on projects. Then when they get interest from "employers" they do whatever they can do to win the project.. most without any understanding whatsoever of what your project is about or what is expected. (They could look and spend 5 minutes reading, but thats just too time consuming) Then, you get the freelancer asking so many questions once you put the project specifications across, you think initially they are just double-checking to be completely sure not to go do something that needs to be redone... communication you can admire. Followed up by saying they fully understand then after a couple days of the project being overdue... the project comes back completely different to your specification and project description.

It seems with freelancer.com (purchased so many different competitor sites, many much better) doesn't matter the location (UK, Europe or Asia etc) or your budget, people are overselling their skills (mostly of which they don't have), just to get money. Its not what its supposed to be about.

I don't have much experience with PPH... but I think its important to make people aware of how the industry has become. Many internet freelancers work on "if it fits..." ideology relying on Google to bring them results... I am sure for a lot on PPH (but not as much as freelancer) the problem is the same.

You don't want a jack-of-all-trades, you want an expert employed for a project as a freelancer.

How many times I have been given list of websites they have done or with their work on, which is solely grabbed from a Google search... its tricky to check when not knowing what they search for.

 

[billie1]

I've used people per hour recently to get someone to designer my business facebook page. Some would say I could have done it myself but I've never had a facebook account before so didn't feel I had enough knowledge to set up a professional looking page.

So I posted the job on people per hour. After about 40 bids, I found a designer, who set up the account within two days. I was not happy with it so got him to edit it and make changes until I was happy.

This is one of the possitives of 'people per hour' you do not pay the designer a cent until you are completely happy with the design.

I think the disadvantage is that if you do not have good judgement or enough knowledge of the designer you can get burnt. The bidders are all good at making you believe they can do the job. Always ask for examples of work they have done so you can have an idea of their level of work. Make sure you can link the examples to them as some have sent examples of work they were supposed to have done which I didn't think was their own work.

 

[Mass Appeal Designs]

Up to a year ago I had 29 jobs through PPH, since they introduced 'Hourlies' its pretty damn hard as you are competing with people offering logo design for £50 and its the most prominent feature on the site. thankfully I don't really need to use it anymore as most of my work is for regular clients. It's fine if you are a buyer, I have had 2 good providers and 1 bad for various requirements so its a bit of trial and error. As a seller of services its getting harder to the point of its a waste of time.

 

[Uzair Kharawala]

We've used oDesk for dozens and dozens of projects. Like everything in life, we've had some really bad outsourcers and some really good ones. Outsourcing is the way for small businesses and can work really well if you build the right team.
Also used crowd sourcing sites like Design Crowd for design work and this worked really well as well.