Penalised in pay for sickness, advice please.

[Joe90]

Hello All,

Hope you can help me with some advice, I work for a security company and recently had to have some time off due to sickness, on my return I worked two bank holidays (Bank Holidays worked: 22nd April, 2nd May - Sickness Dates: 29th April until 1st May).

I normally receive double time for working a bank holiday as most people do, what my company have done is penalise me for having sick days by not paying me double time on those days (and instead only paying me single time), the people on the same shift doing the same job as myself received double time.

Can they do this to me? and if not (which is the answer I'm hoping for, what steps should I take to remedy this situation).

NB: Keep in mind I'd worked the 22nd of April (Bank Holiday) BEFORE I was off sick, yet they still decided to only pay me single time for this day, that alone is insult enough.

Any help or guidance anyone could give me on this situation is greatly appreciated.

 

[Pete31]

is it possible your employer is suggesting how odd it is that you were fine to work when it was double bubble, but not the days in between...more so given that you were sick on the 1sy May, but were fine to work the BH on the 2nd?

hopefully someone who knows the rules more than me might chirp up, however id imagine that if your contract states double, then they owe you double..dispite you timely sickness

 

[Pete31]

Hello All,

what my company have done is penalise me for having sick days by not paying me double time on those days (and instead only paying me single time /quote]


have they actually said they are penalising you...or have they just made a mistake?

 

[Joe90]

have they actually said they are penalising you...or have they just made a mistake?

They have stated that the reason I won't be paid double time for those days is because I was off sick, so yes... they have confirmed that non-payment is a "punishment" for time off due to illness.

is it possible your employer is suggesting how odd it is that you were fine to work when it was double bubble, but not the days in between...more so given that you were sick on the 1sy May, but were fine to work the BH on the 2nd?

hopefully someone who knows the rules more than me might chirp up, however id imagine that if your contract states double, then they owe you double..dispite you timely sickness

I fully understand that, but I was ill... I can't control illness just like I can't control when a bank holiday falls, It's not like I'm the type to take days off either, I've been at deaths door and been in, this time however I couldn't do it, and have been punished.

Edit: I'm not really sure where to take it from here, but I'm furious, and will do whatever it takes... if, that is, I have a leg to stand on.

 

[OldWelshGuy]

AFAIK there is no legal entitlement to pay additional wages for a bank holiday. It all depends on your contract I guess.

Possiblky what they might be saying is that they are paying you for the days you were not at work.

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

As OWG says, there is no legal entitlement to additional wages for working a bank holiday, so it all comes down to your employment contract. If that says you get double-time, you would have a claim against them, but it’s your contract that matters, not the people that worked on the same shift as you.

I fully understand that, but I was ill... I can't control illness just like I can't control when a bank holiday falls, It's not like I'm the type to take days off either, I've been at deaths door and been in, this time however I couldn't do it, and have been punished.

No one asks you to control your illness, but what you should do is manage your finances to allow for being ill, as your employer is not obliged to pay you while you’re sick – although they can’t penalise you for the hours you did work.




Karl Limpert

 

[Joe90]

"The main effect of Employment Rights Act 1996 Part II is to make it unlawful for an employer to make any deduction from the wages of a worker employed by him unless the worker has agreed in writing to the deduction being made or it is required by law (eg deductions for PAYE and national insurance)" - www(dot)emplaw.co.uk/lawguide?startpage=data/098001.htm

What about that?

As OWG says, there is no legal entitlement to additional wages for working a bank holiday, so it all comes down to your employment contract. If that says you get double-time, you would have a claim against them, but it's your contract that matters, not the people that worked on the same shift as you.


No one asks you to control your illness, but what you should do is manage your finances to allow for being ill, as your employer is not obliged to pay you while you're sick - although they can't penalise you for the hours you did work.




Karl Limpert

I am being penalised for hours I did work, even before illness... I don't know about you, but this feels criminal, long and the short of it is, I'm ill, I'm at work at the time and have to call the boss because I'm being sick at work, I leave... and I have double time removed for shifts I have already done, along with shifts I do afterwards.

What's annoying me more, is they seem to think it's ok to penalise me by removing double time from shifts I had already worked before being sick...

No one asks you to control your illness, but what you should do is manage your finances to allow for being ill

Uh hu.. this is kinda a given, I'm not asking for help with managing my finances... I'm asking for help on grounds that I feel my employer has taken money from me for no reason, financially I'm fine, but a couple of hundred quid, is a couple of hundred quid....

Edit: also, managing finances, illness... has nothing to do with a company deciding to remove wages, special (double time) or otherwise from an employee... I realise you're part of the furniture here, but surely... this isn't the done thing, companies can do this sort of thing as "punishment"? really?!

 

[OldWelshGuy]

Joe it is clear you are not looking for advice you are looking for people toa gree with you. I will try again
1. what hours did you work
2. what hours did they pay you
3. what does your contract say youshould get paid when
...a) sick
...b) working bank holiday

These are the things that matter.

it works like this. I as an employer am not obliged to pay someone for a day off on the sick. I can CHOOSE to pay someone if I so wish, in just the same way I can CHOOSE to pay someone a full shift if they go home ill.

Please don't mix up statutory obligation with what you have been paid, you absolutely mus seperate the two as they are not one and the same..

I have had guys in the past who went out on a Thursday night playing pool, called in sick on Friday, then asked if there was a saturday shift available and could they work 8 hours on saturday (first 4 at time and a half second 4 at double time) to " make up their pay.

I am not a charity, nor am I dumb enough to have mickey taken out of me by someone pulling a sicky because they had a hangover, upsetting ym planned working day as we had to arrange cover etc, while he then tries to get ME to make up his wages.

A couple of 'sorry no weekend work this week' made sure that miraculously he didn't get ill on a friday thereafter.

Now I am not saying you scammed this, I am juts trying to get you to see the other side.

What you need to do is look at your contract, if it says 'bank holiday working hours will be paid at normal rate' then that is what you are entitled to, and if your boss said you get double time, that was him/her CHOOSING to pay this. he/she then might have decided that he/she didn't want to pay you that, which by law he can do (unless an oral contract was made).

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

... but a couple of hundred quid, is a couple of hundred quid....

... to your employer, just as much as to you. If you're entitled to it, fair enough, but they don't have to pay you that just because they pay someone else that.

What about that?

What about it? Did they deduct money from you? If yes, you have a case, but if no, nothing you can do. What does your contract say about bank holidays?



Karl Limpert

 

[YourLaw.co]

Hi Guys

It could be that I am going to upset you all again!

I do agree that if it says in his contract that he should get double time for a bank-holiday then he should get it.

But I don't necessarily agree that if the contract says that he should not get the double time or if it says nothing on the subject that he would not have a case to ask for it.

If for example double time has been paid to everyone for a long time then it could be an unauthorised deduction from wages.

However, there could be a rule, written or otherwise, that you only get double time if you work full weeks around a bank-holiday for example.

I would suggest that it would be treated in the same way as cases on 'discretionary bonuses' which have proved to not always be discretionary. If I am right about that then it would be what lawyers know as 'a question of fact and degree for the Tribunal'.

In the real world - just take the hit, it is not worth the falling out and possible consequences of that! Although you could ask them to define what the rules are.


Francis

 

[David Griffiths]

It's not uncommon for contracts of employment to specify enhanced hourly rates for overtime and/or bank holiday working provided that the employee hits the normal standard hours for the week. In other words, if you do your 40 hours then overtime is time and a half.

If people are off sick, then they don't hit this target, and they don't get enhanced rates.

The OP needs to look at the contract or the staff handbook