PayPal are Not Good For business

[Flipptree foundation]

Hi All

First time posting on hear but i feel i need to let all know how we have been treated from PayPal and from eBay Also i am sure you have all heard it all before.

So we integrated our website with PayPal which many businesses do but to get some traction going to our store we opened an eBay account also so about a week ago we started making some sales which was great for first sale in. Next day we sent the item out with tracking number to the customer within that evening we had more sales revenue and in the morning our account was frozen same with eBay.

So i phoned them up and they said they needed documentation etc i said ok but could you not just phone me and i could have sent it why did you need to freeze the account this was what they said and i quote ( because you are making money) couldn't believe what i was hearing and said yes that's what i am meant to do when i open a business account make money.

So i uploaded the documentation that they needed proof of address,proof of company even passport copy still they didn't un-freeze the account so called them back again they said that they needed the last 4 transaction and proof of delivery and tracking numbers i said i can give you one which has already been uploaded to the Paypal as you haven't allowed me to send out the rest (that's like send someone your car you don't know and tell then just pay me when you get the car) so this is what happened and i quote( this is not good enough) then hung up the phone poor poor service.

So i proceeded to write then a letter and then upload it through my account stating how can i send you proof of delivery and tracking number if i have not sent the items out yet and i am glad i didn't because after doing my research i have noticed that other companies have done this and still never got there accounts or got any of there money for items received or there account unfrozen 1 company waited nearly 1 year for his to happen other my guess still waiting.

So my Question in all of this is how can this company and eBay get away with treating companies and individuals like this is it because they are a company in Luxembourg and it would be so expensive to take them to court.

So my rant goes on.

At this point i have to change all processing payment system on my website which is not an easy thing to do because you first need to find 1 which good for me i have they will be done over the coming days but many hours of searching and talking on the phone.

But also another thing i have done with our website in made a store within a store so now people can have there own store on our website is it to piss eBay and Paypal off yes just a bit so we will now be offering eBay users and disgruntled eBay users a massive discount and they will be free of the stuff that i have just went through.

SO PLEASE STAY AWAY FROM EBAY AND PAYPAL THEY WILL CLOSE YOU DOWN IN A BLINK OF AN EYE TO MANY POLICIES AND FREEZE YOU OUT IN A HEART BEAT.

if you would like to know more about our experience send me a pm i am new on here so i don't know if i can reply as yet but i am sure we will manage.


FlippTree

 

[SamStones]

Welcome to the forum.

Firstly, I sympathize as eBay and PayPal screw EVERYONE at some point. I've been there twice already but you just have to work through it.

If you're a genuine business why haven't you just posted the other 3 orders and sent the tracking details like they asked?

What goods are you selling?

 

[MOIC]

I imagine that both eBay and PayPal have their rules and regulations to adhere to and this is to protect potential customers from scam artists and fraudulent activities.

It's there to protect eBay, PayPal and potential customers.

But, I understand your frustrations.

Whilst there are many incidents of being poorly treated, I imagine this pales into insignificance to the amount of people who are happy with their service.

 

[Flipptree foundation]

For all points above.

let me clarify we did send out 1 of the orders with tracking number but when the new orders came that's when we found out we were frozen out by both eBay and PayPal when we contacted them they said i had to upload documentation in the resolution center which we did then had to wait till someone reviewed the documents in-between all that i done my own research into why this happens and found even more horror stories with people with even larger amounts of money than us have been frozen out this has even been highlighted on the BBC at some point with power sellers from eBay waiting 1 year for his money some other are still waiting.

So when they came back to us and said the documents is still not good enough and they wanted proof of tracking an proof of delivery do you honestly think that i am going to send out products and then still not get into my account or needing to wait a year or worse and never get in there. There was to many horror stories for us to ignore this.

when you open a business account with Paypal all documents should need to be uploaded at the start not when you have already made traction on sales. With giving then the information that they need the first time we spoke with the document list is below what they asked for and all was submitted.
1) Proof of business
2) passport copy
3)proof of address
4) suppliers name and address plus telephone number
5) proof of supplier contract
6) Proof of Tracking Number and shipping company

Now you can't tell me that all of the above are not good enough i understand that security is at the top for protection to buyers and sellers but at some point common sense has to prevail i even sent them a link to my television interview i had a few weeks ago talking about the business and other things that's is how legit we are.

I forgot to mention we deal with everything electronic but we will be opening or doors now to other people who would like to come and open a store in our website we are working with a company just now to apply a new payment gateway hopefully this will happen over the coming days and you will be able to sell what you want when you want no selling limits no frozen account as long as everything is lawful then you will be good there will also not sellers fee's either so you can make more money in your sales just something to think about.

 

[LMDServicesUK]

If you need to get a conventional Merchant account and payment gateway for your ecommerce site, we could help, especially if you are selling electronic goods as these will be considered High Risk, please PM me if you would like more information. Once approved ( 3 days) we could have you up and running in 2 days..

Alternately you could look at Stripe if your CTO is going to be sub £ 500 PCM, longer settlement times and more expensive than a conventional account but probably a lot better CS than PayPal will ever offer..

Mark

 

[Flipptree foundation]

Thank Mark we have another payment gateway going to be installed hopefully by Monday if for any reason it will not integrate i will let you know thanks for the posting.

 

[LMDServicesUK]

Great news, I hope it all goes OK for you

 

[Flipptree foundation]

Cheers mark i sent you a private message also.

 

[Flipptree foundation]

yes but while the legitimate business get frozen a lot of scam businesses are still going so tell me who is suffering the most.

 

[TMGG]

If they are high priced electronic products and you've gone from a fresh account it will set alarm bells off in Paypal's system.

I understand your frustration though.

 

[Flipptree foundation]

not all was some it was auction on football tickets for our charity which is crazy money got frozen i feel so strongly about this that i am in the process of doing something about it i will let you know in due course.

 

[Nuno]

not all was some it was auction on football tickets for our charity which is crazy money got frozen i feel so strongly about this that i am in the process of doing something about it i will let you know in due course.

Well that may well have flagged up danger signals to PayPal. "Auction" "charity" "football tickets"; all likely to be alert words to some degree, let alone together. And as Flipptree Foundation doesn't seem to be a name recognized on the official Charity Commission site, this may have contributed to PayPal blocking you.

 

[Flipptree foundation]

I don't believe that for a minute we have many different things that we auction off for our charity which has been covered buy a top news channel here in the UK for the work that we do for child poverty so come on they would need to try harder than that.

 

[Nuno]

Aren't you missing the point? They don't have to try harder, they have a system which works very nicely for them, thank you.
If you want to use their service you must try harder, or as you are doing, take your business elsewhere.
BTW what is the name the charity is registered under?

 

[8420PR]

It's hard for me to have some sympathy with you, when you haven't shipped your last two orders because of your internal dispute with Paypal.

In any case, Paypal are just protecting themselves. As they offer buyer guarantees, they are effectively offering you credit as they guarantee your product and service for 180 days. By providing the documentation they at least know you are legitimate.

It used to be really easy to defraud paypal. All you needed to do is buy a template from themeforest, offer brandname electronic products at a bargain price. Take a load of orders over a period of 2 weeks using paypal, empty the account and disappear.

Can you now see why paypal are asking you for the extra information (especially after looking at your website and product offer)?

 

[Flipptree foundation]

i am not asking for your sympathy i get plenty of that off my wife thank you.
But just let me address your question here if it was one your telling me that you would have shipped the orders even though you have been frozen out come on please!!

Another thing lets put this into context let say i bought i car from you would you be happy me saying to you ship the car ill pay you later when i get the car because that's effectively what Paypal are saying have you not done any research on this or was it you just wanted to come on a rattle my cage.
also you are saying by the looks of my website your telling me i have a scam website or it doesn't look real before you come on please do your homework all phone numbers are on there all direct email direct to me or my employees so please would love to hear from you.

Please read the above before you make further judgments or do your research.

 

[Flipptree foundation]

so there we have it people that actually work for Paypal nice to hear from them.

 

[silvermusic]

I'm not surprised PayPal have concerns, I'm confused over who you are and what you're doing? No physical address contact details, no registered charity number. Not sure if it's an eCommerce site, yet another half-baked auction site trying to take on eBay, do you just drop-ship goods, etc. Your "Home / About Us" page talks loud but says nothing. Electronics and charity are a mixture sure to raise concern and quite rightly so. There are many scenarios that will set off alarm bells yours is one of them. If you don't send goods as soon as they're paid for that will lock your account in record time as a new user.

I like PayPal, been using them since the early days before eBay owned them, done well over 30,000 transactions via eBay and a web site and can count the number of problems on one hand and probably still have a couple of spare fingers. PayPal are quick to react when alarm bells ring, especially on new accounts and rightly so.

 

[Nuno]

Pinch of salt time this thread. Why won't the OP say if he is actually a Registered charity? And if so, under what name?

Also he starts the thread by saying it is his first post:

First time posting on hear (sic)

but he posted on 30 Sept, here.

PayPal don't like taking things with a pinch of salt. Bad for the health and all that.
Still, toys are no longer in the building it seems.

 

[Alan]

Legitimate businesses try to comply with regulations. If they don't then it is reasonable that financial institutions treat them with suspicion.

E.g. 6 (b) of the ecommerce directive says
'the geographic address at which the service provider is established;'
and (d)
'where the service provider is registered in a trade or similar register available to the public, details of the register in which the service provider is entered and his registration number, or equivalent means of identification in that register;'

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/2013/regulation/6/made

which isn't the case on the fliptree website

A few minor changes can really change the impression you give

 

[kulture]

Guys, you are getting close to actually reviewing the web site, which is against the rules.

As for the OP, you need to understand ecommerce and the laws regarding ecommerce or you will soon be out of business. In your case customers have placed orders and PAID. You must ship or refund. It's not the customer's problem that you choose Paypal. It's not the customer's problem that Paypal wants to review you and ensure you are legitimate.

By not sending out the goods that the customers have paid for you will very soon get complaints from the customers and soon after that Paypal will close your account. The ONLY way to keep your Paypal account and get it un-suspended, is to answer all their questions, provide all the documentation AND send out the orders.

 

[perpixon]

Never had a problem with PayPal. We have had 3 customers making a claim against us and each time PayPal found in our favour (compared to Worldpay who don't care). The only problem is the high rate they charge.

 

[Flipptree foundation]

Legitimate businesses try to comply with regulations. If they don't then it is reasonable that financial institutions treat them with suspicion.

E.g. 6 (b) of the ecommerce directive says
'the geographic address at which the service provider is established;'
and (d)
'where the service provider is registered in a trade or similar register available to the public, details of the register in which the service provider is entered and his registration number, or equivalent means of identification in that register;'



which isn't the case on the fliptree website

A few minor changes can really change the impression you give

Thank you the most sensible guy on here. Yes there is changes that we are making as we speak to the website to make it more transparent to the people who use the website.

And for all the above who are questioning who we are and what we do let me start by tell you who i am i am Mark Bland founder of FlippTree and FlippTree foundation and no we are not a registered charity as yet are we in the process yes but this take time min 90 days for all documentation to be handed and reviewed by the authorities.

FlippTree was set up not to take on eBay so please don't say we are that is not the case we have our own business plan very clear which i am guess the above armchair forum guys just like to get there 2 pence worth in over other peoples post if you want to know more please feel free to give us a call number is on the website and i will let you know everything.

 

[Flipptree foundation]

Guys, you are getting close to actually reviewing the web site, which is against the rules.

As for the OP, you need to understand ecommerce and the laws regarding ecommerce or you will soon be out of business. In your case customers have placed orders and PAID. You must ship or refund. It's not the customer's problem that you choose Paypal. It's not the customer's problem that Paypal wants to review you and ensure you are legitimate.

By not sending out the goods that the customers have paid for you will very soon get complaints from the customers and soon after that Paypal will close your account. The ONLY way to keep your Paypal account and get it un-suspended, is to answer all their questions, provide all the documentation AND send out the orders.

Just for your info once we found out our Paypal was frozen and the documents that we sent to them was not good enough then we issued everyone refunds straight away so lets just clear that up we are not in the business to hold onto other peoples money or rip people off.

 

[Flipptree foundation]

Guys, you are getting close to actually reviewing the web site, which is against the rules.

As for the OP, you need to understand ecommerce and the laws regarding ecommerce or you will soon be out of business. In your case customers have placed orders and PAID. You must ship or refund. It's not the customer's problem that you choose Paypal. It's not the customer's problem that Paypal wants to review you and ensure you are legitimate.

By not sending out the goods that the customers have paid for you will very soon get complaints from the customers and soon after that Paypal will close your account. The ONLY way to keep your Paypal account and get it un-suspended, is to answer all their questions, provide all the documentation AND send out the orders.

Sounds like they have already reviewed the website.

 

[MOIC]

The OP needs to realise that when posting a thread on this forum, it invites responses from ALL forum members, not just those agreeing with his stance.

For him to criticise the views of most of the posters is plain wrong and just shows he does not want to understand the rules which eBay and Paypal set.

To take things personally in business is the wrong thing to do and he should take on board as well as accept the views given.

I am sure (or at least should be) a learning curve.

Good luck to him on his website, charity and new payment methods.

 

[kulture]

Just for your info once we found out our Paypal was frozen and the documents that we sent to them was not good enough then we issued everyone refunds straight away so lets just clear that up we are not in the business to hold onto other peoples money or rip people off.

Fine, but how did you send the refunds if your paypal account is suspended?

If you refunded outside paypal then you are running into the danger of being scammed by customers who then complain to paypal and get a refund through them AS WELL.

 

[silvermusic]

I'm not surprised PayPal have acted in the way they have in the slightest, neither would it seem are any other posters apart from the OP on this thread. In my eyes they're doing exactly the right thing protecting themselves, their reputation and buyers money, all perfectly normal.

 

[fisicx]

PayPal works if you follow the rules.

Before you start trading make sure your account is registered and validated and your website complies with the law.

If you are a charity there are extra hoops to jump through but do it right and you won't have a problem.

Flipptree, if you don't ship the orders you will end up in even more trouble. The buyers will raise a dispute and you won't just get frozen, you may get banned from using ebay/paypal ever again

 

[Latebloomer]

I am using Moneybookers at present and if I have a choice, paypal is much better. If paypal is not good for business then I don't know what is. It however seem to have a monopoly in ecommerce and many clients prefer them as well.

 

[quikshop]

Ah this ol' chestnut. PayPal do unto most at some time or other, I've had several occasions to get hot under the collar with their bombastic approach and they should be labelled as "use with caution".

But actually if you put the emotion aside and just deal with their requests on every occasion the issues have been resolved.

Like Amazon they tip the balance heavily in favour of the consumer at the expense of the merchant; you can either accept it or not use their service, they are not obliged in any way to consider the impact on your business, or your emotions.

 

[SamStones]

Please remember here that we're not talking about someone who is new to online retailing. They're seasoned experts "who have been working in the field of online retailing for many years".

This does however make it all the more embarrassing that they're not prepared to do the basic leg work to get a paypal account off the ground. I'm sure their previous experience and market research has shown them that paypal are one of, if not THE market leader in their field.

To the op: Don't give up so quickly, if you give up on other aspects of the business so quickly you won't stand a chance. I'm sure you know this from your string of previous successes but it can be easy to get frustrated at times! Keep calm and keep at it, and I'm sure you'll get there eventually.

Good luck!

 

[TODonnell]

1. PayPal is a factoring service. It takes a cut of transactions. If it is holding on to millions of dollars at any one time, it's earning significant interest.

2. a) PayPal was heavily targetted in its infancy by fraudsters. b) It's a large company. c) The buyers take priority. d) It processes millions of transactions.

Thus, it has zero time for sympathy for merchants who have had bum deals.

3. Many are the cries of merchants who have had their accounts frozen by PayPal. PayPal, is not, and never has been, a serious merchant account alternative.

Implement it in your shopping cart BUT offer alternatives. If I was selling expensive, in-demand, items, I probably wouldn't use it AT ALL; let the customer get out their credit card.

 

[deniser]

Paypal is not the only payment processor who will ask for documentation. Any account which you can open and use instantly will at some stage stop and ask you for documents to comply with their money laundering obligations if nothing else. It happened to me with Stripe and also with a currency conversion site.

If you are a legitimate business then it's irritating to have your account suspended with no warning but immediately you provide what is requested then your account is up and running again in a matter of hours. It's not really a big deal.

I have had my issues with Paypal over the years but they have improved massively from the merchants' point of view in recent years and they have a lot going for them now.

 

[william04]

PayPal is convenient mode of online payment process. And in case it is taking some amount of money on every transaction, its worth it. The security is main concern and PayPal successfully complete the transaction process without any fraud.

 

[FreeRangeWeb]

I started an online art glass business for my wife (Boha Glass) using PayPal and had to jump through lots of hoops in order to pay 3% commission on every piece.
Now I have a deal with Barclaycard ePDQ and they only charge 1.75%, so there are many alternatives, but you will always have to send a flurry of scanned documents to whichever payment gateway to choose

 

[japancool]

FlippTree was set up not to take on eBay so please don't say we are that is not the case we have our own business plan very clear which i am guess the above armchair forum guys just like to get there 2 pence worth in over other peoples post if you want to know more please feel free to give us a call number is on the website and i will let you know everything.

Many of the people on this forum are business owners with plenty of experience, not "armchair forum guys", so I suggest you get out of the mindset of thinking you're something special, because that's unlikely to impress anyone here.

Most of the people who have posted in this thread have worked successfully with Paypal on their sites, as indeed we have, because we've bothered to take the time to understand their rules. Which you, apparently, have not.