Payment Demand for Unlicensed Use of an Image

[raz0rlite]

We have recently received a payment demand for £1680 from picrights.com (on behalf of DPA Picture-Alliance GMBH) for unlicensed use of an image on our website. The image was taken down 6 months ago so was live from May 2019- Dec 2023.

It was originally provided to us by a brand supplier, who now tell us that it was only licensed for print – we thought it was their own image. I am aware that innocent use is not a defence!

I know there’s a lot of conflicting advice online about how to handle this situation (ignore, pay, negotiate). I don’t think I can deal with the stress of just ignoring it & potentially waiting for it to be escalated to their solicitors, so wanted to ask if there is any advice for how to negotiate the amount payable and if anyone has had any success with this?

 

[antropy]

I know there’s a lot of conflicting advice online about how to handle this situation (ignore, pay, negotiate). I don’t think I can deal with the stress of just ignoring it & potentially waiting for it to be escalated to their solicitors, so wanted to ask if there is any advice for how to negotiate the amount payable and if anyone has had any success with this?

They're absolute scammers and copyright trolls:

Copyright troll - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I removed the image but I told them I'd happily see them in court and to get on with it. I never heard from them again.

Paul.

 

[finleydesign]

I think you have used one of my images too! So you owe me £3000 but Ill accept £1500, how did you want to pay??

 

[Byzantium]

Years, perhaps decades ago, there was a case I was close to where someone won their case in court for £xx per day that the image was uploaded.

Yours was uploaded for approximately 4.5 years or 1642 days. I bet that is actually £1680 days and they are claiming £1 a day.

However, the case I refer to was won on the basis of something like £30 to £60 a day, which would be £49k to £98k on those same numbers.

 

[raz0rlite]

Years, perhaps decades ago, there was a case I was close to where someone won their case in court for £xx per day that the image was uploaded.

Yours was uploaded for approximately 4.5 years or 1642 days. I bet that is actually £1680 days and they are claiming £1 a day.

However, the case I refer to was won on the basis of something like £30 to £60 a day, which would be £49k to £98k on those same numbers.

That does put into perspective that £1 per day is a fair price. I actually negotiated a 35% discount, so ended up paying £1090 so I could move on and forget about it! In addition, the supplier that gave us the image without confirming that is was licensed for print only, will hopefully reimburse us for 50% of the cost.

 

[antropy]

I actually negotiated a 35% discount, so ended up paying £1090 so I could move on and forget about it!

So you paid the scammers

And you think that will be the end of it? Once they've found someone they can scare into paying they'll keep coming back to you for more, you wait and see.

Paul.

 

[fisicx]

@raz0rlite - expect more of the same. I’d put money on them not even owning the copyright to that image. Which means you could still be contacted by the real owners.

 

[antropy]

@raz0rlite - expect more of the same.

Yep, I've been part of big facebook groups about this where some people have paid and then they start getting pursued more and more because the scammers have found someone who's scared

They even have the cheek to try and charge that person more for the same image again and again for other uses and "crimes".

Paul.

 

[Fagin2021]

So you paid the scammers

And you think that will be the end of it? Once they've found someone they can scare into paying they'll keep coming back to you for more, you wait and see.

Paul.

And that is called paying the Dane-geld;
But we've proved it again and again,
That if once you have paid him the Dane-geld
You never get rid of the Dane.
Kipling

 

[antropy]

And that is called paying the Dane-geld;
But we've proved it again and again,
That if once you have paid him the Dane-geld
You never get rid of the Dane.
Kipling

Wow, that is accurate, I hadn't heard that one before but here's more info for anyone else interested:

Dane-geld (poem) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Paul.

 

[Paul FilmMaker]

UK video production here. Bad news is you have to pay someone.

So there are a few points I would be thinking about:

Firstly, to properly pursue a copyright infringement, a third-party agent needs to establish the image in question has been copyrighted (including the date and by whom) and that the agent is empowered to negotiate a claim on behalf of the copyright owner. If they haven't, then go straight to the person who sold you the image rights initially and find out who to pay.

Secondly, what was the contract at the time? Strangely, copyright changes so we were chased by someone wanting money for an image. However, when we bought the rights to the image initially, it was absolutely fine. Sure, the copyright for subsequent years had changed but not when we bought it. So worth checking what the contract was at the time.

Thirdly, the genuine amount. Mostly, we license pics at £50 or £100 or so. £1,600 is an unreasonable amount of money. Even with a small fine, £250 would be the amount I would be looking to pay for something like this.

Finally, what is your contract with the supplier? What does it state in terms of usage? It may be that all revenues are recoverable if the supplier messed up.

So just some ideas.

 

[antropy]

So just some ideas.

Terrible ideas.

Don't encourage these scammers.

Paul.

 

[AlanJ1]

Terrible ideas.

Don't encourage these scammers.

Paul.

Couldn't agree more with this.

 

[japancool]

The fact that they were so willing to agree a "discount" is a big tell..

 

[sparksy68]

There does seem to be alot of scrapers out there at the miniute, just tell them to go whistle and they should disappear

 

[Luolou]

We've recently applied for a trademark through the IPO who have been really helpful & informative. It is going through the process now, whereby the IPO publish in an online directory for 2 months.
Surprise surprise, as soon as we'd had the confirmation I received an invoice from a company called TPS which had all the correct details including the application date & our ref number for £825 for " publication in our private database". There was no address on the letter but a slip to sign & return by email to them...

Thankfully as a small company we have our fingers on the pulse for scams like these, but how many people in larger companies might accept it as du, e knowing an application was ongoing?

 

[Paul FilmMaker]

Terrible ideas.

Don't encourage these scammers.

Paul.

Money is probably owed to someone in this case because OP indicates copyright has been breached. Which is why I'm suggesting he should look into this. So finger in the air, it's probably worth about £250 max given the details.

So the questions are around if anyone is owed money (what was the original contract), does this admittedly shady outfit have the rights to represent etc... The usual stuff.

It's literally something I deal with every day.

E.g. Recently, I music copyright cleared a YT channel for one of my customers, a multi-billion dollar corporation headquartered in the UK. Working with their inhouse team, I ensured every piece of music was copyright free. If I get that bit wrong, I'd be sued into oblivion so hopefully it was OK.

But I'm just going to state I'm in video production and not a lawyer. For genuine legal advice, it is worth talking to proper, legal representation.

 

[fisicx]

We don’t know if copyright has been breached. We just have a scammer claiming copyright. No proof has been provided.

 

[Paul FilmMaker]

We don’t know if copyright has been breached. We just have a scammer claiming copyright. No proof has been provided.

OP indicated he had it on his website but only licensed for print. Clear copyright breach if this is the case.

That's why in my post, I wrote he needs to look at the contract.

 

[fisicx]

OP indicated he had it on his website but only licensed for print. Clear copyright breach if this is the case.

But....

The company asking for the money are almost certainly not the copyright holders. Which is why it's a scam.

 

[Paul FilmMaker]

But....

The company asking for the money are almost certainly not the copyright holders. Which is why it's a scam.

Which is why I stated they have to check this.

 

[antropy]

So finger in the air, it's probably worth about £250 max given the details.

No, they're scammers, do some research.

It's worth £0 and then hitting the Delete key on the emails.

Paul.

 

[fisicx]

Which is why I stated they have to check this.

No. don't do this. As soon as you reply they know you are a legitimate target and will keep hounding you. Mark as junk and move on.

 

[fantheflames]

These type of emails are definitely increasing! Always check online first, and never reply to the email. It will become apparent if they are legit or not.

 

[Paul FilmMaker]

No. don't do this. As soon as you reply they know you are a legitimate target and will keep hounding you. Mark as junk and move on

Why would you want to check it with the people approaching? As stated in my approach, check it with the agency they initially bought the image from. They'll have all the details, especially around representation.

OP's stated they're using an image in breach of copyright. It's literally in their response. If I did that, I'd want to do the right thing and pay the creator.