Orders """"Disappearing"""" do you experience this?

[Adam Cox]

I produce low value, mid-volume products all ordered online and sent by post. All orders are essentially printed paper so go by standard post - 1st class or recorded 1st class for uk, airmail or recorded international for abroad. It's a simple product and a simple process with little room for error.

I fulfil around 1-200 orders per week. Each and every week I get complaints of orders never arriving.

What can I do??? Are some of them lying? I sell on my own site but also amazon and ebay. If a customer who didn't' order/pay for recorded delivery says they didn't receive it what can I do? Amazon and ebay (despite me paying them a fortune in fees over 3 flipping years) will ALWAYS side with the customer. I can't provide a tracking number as they didn't pay for it to go recorded. So I have to refund or replace, even though it's either the customer lying (rare I reckon) or the postal companies losing/stealing them. Royal Mail itself sacks one person every day for theft but I do think they're awesome otherwise.

So I'm forced to refund or re-send - I throw all that TIME away; emailing customers, creating the product, printing the order, paying for postage, , queuing in the post office and paying for it all. All gone because the delivery service failed/the customer lied. The only solution is to send everything recorded, but a lot of my products cost just £2, customers simply don't' want to have to collect them from a delivery centre or pay the recorded fee. Worst case is sending a large, costly order to a more deprived country by standard unrecorded post. They wouldn't pay for recorded post but so quick to complain when the town mail donkey turns up empty-sacked.

I'm pretty sure there's no solution to this but wondered how many of you deal with this same catch 22 and what your approach is. Apologies, this is more of a rant following Xmas trade which exacerbates this problem.

Any advice from my business brothers and sisters appreciated.
Adam

 

[JamieM]

Just self insure against it. If you add 10p for example to the price of your product or delivery cost then you have an extra £10-£20 a week to cover it.

 

[stockdam]

I think you just have to factor this in. Some people will lie, some will "find" their order later (but not tell you, some orders get lost, some get delayed, some get stolen......

Even if a delivery is recorded then it can be delivered to the wrong address and get signed for (happened to me as a customer).

 

[Adam Cox]

Already loving the responses. That' a great idea.

 

[Talay]

I have lived in countries where foreign mail often disappeared because it was suspected to contain cash being send back to the home country from friends or family abroad.

You cannot overcome a corrupt local postal system but what you can do is to work to mitigate the chances of a package being selected as valuable and thus likely to illegal interception.

Of course, you need to factor it into the overall cost and I would have thought, obtain proof of posting at this end and claim the requisite compensation.

 

[Adam Cox]

Right yeah, proof of posting is pretty key I suppose. I do get pressured though when I have twenty foreign orders at the post office and there's an angry queue waiting behind, POP take a while. Do you know if you can do POP with a franking machine at your own office/home?

 

[Adam Cox]

Also how would you make it appear to not contain cash?

 

[JamieM]

Right yeah, proof of posting is pretty key I suppose. I do get pressured though when I have twenty foreign orders at the post office and there's an angry queue waiting behind, POP take a while. Do you know if you can do POP with a franking machine at your own office/home?

Surely if you are doing 100-200 items a week you could get a PPI account? Or at the very least use Smartstamp?

 

[Talay]

Right yeah, proof of posting is pretty key I suppose. I do get pressured though when I have twenty foreign orders at the post office and there's an angry queue waiting behind, POP take a while. Do you know if you can do POP with a franking machine at your own office/home?

Stuff them. It is their job.

Obviously, I think there is a better solution re franking or similar but if you need to hold up the latest dole whaller cashing his giro for beer tokens then just drag it out a bit longer

 

[Talay]

Also how would you make it appear to not contain cash?

Send various types, note what gets sent, which ones disappear, don't send the ones which get "lost".

 

[deniser]

Self insure as has already been mentioned and delete the most troublesome countries from the list.

There is one country in which I have family to which I have not managed to send a single letter by post in the last 15 years. Every single one has disappeared. Even when I have sent it by international signed for to the HQ of a large international company, they returned it to sender out of spite because they couldn't disappear it!

Some countries should just be avoided.

 

[smo]

Firstly get a PPI account - its quicker and cheaper so will instantly solve the "insure against loss" type suggestion as the money you save on postage will cover the ovvasional loss.

Secondly consider personalised packaging or tape so that it identifies the content as "not cash" and also looks more professional than a brown box or plain hard back envelope.

Out of interest, what do you sell (pm me if you dont wish to say on here)???

 

[Billysdiet]

I have the same problem. I hate that eBay fleece the sellers and side with the customers. I have loads of stuff go missing. I used ppi and lost loads and they give no compensation. I now have a franking machine. I hand write a bulk certificate of postage and queue up at the PO. Some of the staff just sign the form without checking the address. But some do tick each address off. Only lost 1 parcel in the month that I have been doing this. I will be able to claim for it but it's a very low value item and cannot be bothered with the long forms. But for an expensive item I would. I got the form searching for bulk certificate of postage on google. Even the PO staff asked where it came from!

 

[Alex Orana]

Is it only certain countries, where majority of parcels are getting ''lost''?

 

[Adam Cox]

Thanks for all the great responses.

PPI sounds worth looking at but I think I'll end up getting a franking machine. I suppose if the envelopes look professionally printed as much as possible then psychologically a customer/other wrong'un would be less inclined to try anything dodgy.

Most orders get "lost" in East Europe and the middle East but to be honest I think there is a real element of genuine loss to be taken into account anyway and this is multiplied by distance eg I lose a lot of orders in N.America.

In the early days I too experimented with different methods and sent every single order recorded. It cost a fortune, took ages at the PO and customers complained they had to collect them BUT not a single missing piece for the whole time so that tells it's own story.

Also let's not forget the Royal Mail theft thing, it's definitely a factor.

BTW amazon just this morning refunded £50 to a Romanian customer. It took them 2 hours from the point of his complaint and all I got was a generic email from them and little or no say. This one I should have seen as risky and got proof of postage I suppose.

 

[alanc]

Royal Mail theft is greatly exaggerated and really a tiny problem. Remember that RM employees value their jobs and pension plan. A PPI account will redue any RM losses - it's because you present them with weighed and sealed bags, so losses can be traced to a particular driver or handling department.

Try to keep your packaging 'neutral'. Don't flash you name about and keep the return name & address small. I know someone that sells football souvenirs and his loss rate went right down when he removed the shop name from his parcels.

Make sure your parcels don't look like something interesting. We used to get our highest loss rate on parcels that look like a computer game box. Now, it's probably iPods and mobile phone shapes.

None of this helps with overseas losses in some countries. I've stopped sending to some countries.

 

[Lentinus]

I buy labels on line and the envelope always comes with a big orange sticker that says "Printed Material No Commercial Value" stuck on it.

The RM have some stats about how much actually gets "lost in the post" - I seem to remember it is less than 1%

Also if you do a lot of Amazon stuff, check out Fulfillment by Amazon - it depends on the weight vs value as to whether the numbers work but it includes shipping and the Amazon fees are dropped to help.

 

[smo]

The RM have some stats about how much actually gets "lost in the post" - I seem to remember it is less than 1%

I really hope its a lot less than that as 1% is a huge number of parcels/letters to go missing!

 

[deniser]

Are you attaching customs labels to the Middle East and North America parcels?

If the items are low value then there shouldn't be any duty to pay - which is sometimes a factor for "missing" parcels. They aren't really missing but the recipient isn't expecting to have to pay charges on top (which can be hefty as they involve a handling fee) and then pretends it is missing because he doesn't receive it whereas in fact he doesn't want to pay the duty.

If you have to complete the customs labels then there is no escaping revealing what is inside. As you are sending so many of these items overseas, they must be sought after!

As for eastern Europe, I send everything signed for. As soon as I don't, something will go missing immediately, especially to Lithuania. My customers in Latvia told me how bad the loss rate is over there and are more than willing to pay for signed for post so they don't have the hassle.

Often an item isn't even lost or stolen but just sitting in a depot with the recipient unaware because they didn't get carded when they weren't at home. That has happened to me before in Germany and Holland and of course in the UK as well. They do eventually get sent back from some countries but only after several months have elapsed. Unfortunately with no tracking number there is no way the recipient can check at the sorting office.

 

[SillyJokes]

Thanks for all the great responses.


Most orders get "lost" in East Europe and the middle East but to be honest I think there is a real element of genuine loss to be taken into account anyway and this is multiplied by distance eg I lose a lot of orders in N.America.

That's your problem right there.

You are not loosing UK orders, you are loosing overseas orders and you always will.

You might be pleased with the quantity of orders you are getting from these areas but seriously, you are just being mugged.

The UK actually has one of the cheapest and most reliable postal services in the world which is why we as a nation are among the biggest online shoppers. In Europe for instance the take up is much less because their postal system sucks.

So, look again at where the losses are and consider knocking certain destinations on the head.

 

[DaveSUK]

Get a PPI account with Royal Mail and with the saving you make on the cost of postage use Royal Mail recorded as standard.

Depending on the weight you may be able to get some good prices from a courier. We get up to 30kg next day delivery from Parcel Force at only £4.00 per parcel this includes tracking

 

[Talay]

....... consider knocking certain destinations on the head.

Before t'internet I was asked to deal with some Soviet bloc countries and East Germany in particular. Say what you will about them but when the alternative was life in the Gulag, they toed the line. Now they are free of supervision, they are like the wild west and worryingly, more and more will legally be ably to come to the UK very soon. The Romanians are queuing up already (those that are not already here).

 

[Oxford]

Something that might save you time and effort is Royal Mail Smart Stamp - small program to download and you print your postage at home. You load money onto it with your credit card as needed. I do all my small orders like that and just drop them off at the local delivery office. You still have to bring special deliveries/recorded deliveries to the Post Office to get your tracking number or POP though, but at least you've got it all stamped etc. first.

 

[1stnIght]

I have the same problem. I hate that eBay fleece the sellers and side with the customers. I have loads of stuff go missing. I used ppi and lost loads and they give no compensation. I now have a franking machine. I hand write a bulk certificate of postage and queue up at the PO. Some of the staff just sign the form without checking the address. But some do tick each address off. Only lost 1 parcel in the month that I have been doing this. I will be able to claim for it but it's a very low value item and cannot be bothered with the long forms. But for an expensive item I would. I got the form searching for bulk certificate of postage on google. Even the PO staff asked where it came from!

I've been on PPI for 4 months. I just discovered to my cost Royal Mail won't pay for lost Recorded Delivery items if you use PPI. You have to use Special Delivery or 'Tracked Mail'. The latter only for people with much bigger businesses than mine.

As for 'lost' items, I get very few and just factor them in. Its easy to get over excited about these because they are so annoying. I try to rise above the desire to take extreme action!
Don't always suceed though!

 

[SillyJokes]

pffft, who has time to chase Royal Mail over lost orders? It simply isn't worth your time and they know it, that's why they don't make it easier to claim when you know they could.

 

[Adam Cox]

Yes as for royal mail I think loss and theft is quite a big problem, my own experimentation kind of showed it but I do think it's down to the high turnover of the temp staff, not the salt of the earth career posties who are pretty awesome. I think the truth of the matter is there are a great many reasons why an order may never arrive which includes the customer lying or filling their own address incorrectly.

From everyone's kind replies it sounds like the best method is to make the envelopes as formal and unassuming as possible. I used to stamp the product type on the envelope and experienced heavy losses so now it's just the logo.

I'll research PPI tonight, seems to be popular.

Any other countries people have had problems with?
I looked into smartstamp and remember it looking good but maybe time consuming if going for bulk.

And yes it's so rarely worth chasing up loss with RM, the cost in time outweighs the product value most of the time and yeah they know it.

 

[Adam Cox]

Looking at PPI, can anyone tell me what are the pros/cons when compared to franking machines?

 

[smo]

Looking at PPI, can anyone tell me what are the pros/cons when compared to franking machines?

PPI
Lowest prices
Administered online
Free collections (when spending over 15K/year)
Weights are averaged within bands

Franking
Machine rental costs
Ink etc.
Not as good rates as PPI
good for v.small senders who need better prices than counter sales but cant get PPI account.

 

[pollensa]

Any other countries people have had problems with?

For me its always Italy, just about anything sent by any Royal mail service is never seen again.

I now send by UPS to Italy booked with Interparcel and absorb the costs if possible.

Mark

 

[pollensa]

We get up to 30kg next day delivery from Parcel Force at only £4.00 per parcel this includes tracking

That's a great price, if you don't mind me asking what volume do you have to ship to get that ?

 

[Adam Cox]

Thanks. Yes looked up PPI and it sounds like you're right, it's the way to go. I'll give them a call today.

I think certain countries you always need to get proof of postage, it's time consuming but at least gives you the vital evidence to stop amazon/ebay siding with the customer.

Difficult countries through this thread and my own experience:

Italy
Romania/East Europe
Middle East esp. Saudi & UAE
Russia
China's ok but takes weeks
America seems fast & reliable to East coast (4 days to NY!!) but less so the rest.

 

[pollensa]

The way I see it proof of postage means very little with an ebay/paypal dispute.

Paypal wants a proof of delivery, if you cant provide that then you loose in my experience in a dispute.

Think of it from the customers point of view, if they pay for something they expect to receive it.

I certainly expect to receive any item I pay for on ebay, if not I get my money back every time.