notice period....help...being sued !!!!!

[kbond]

ok, first time posting so be patient with me

I have worked for a small company for 4 weeks

I handed in my notice last week

They said I have to give 1 month, I want to give 1 week

However, they say in my contract it says a month

I have read my contract (2 A4 sheets) a notice period is not mentioned at all

BUT

Employer says that the details of notice periods and other stuff are in the employee guidebook....which I have never been given or shown I might add

and that as the "employee guidebook" is mentioned in relation to disiplinary and grievance procedures (which is written on the contract I signed) I am legally bound to adhere to all the terms and conditions contained in the guidebook as it forms part of the whole contract

Can anyone advise on this ???

Employer is now saying they will sue if I dont work notice of 1 month

 

[MH1]

Out of interest how frequently are you paid?

 

[scothost]

If your contract refers to and binds you to it's employee handbook and in there it says your notice period is 4 weeks, then its 4 weeks.

Have you got a job to go to?

Give them 4 weeks notice and go on the sick

^^ I never said that

 

[kbond]

I get paid monthly

I have got another job to go to yes

The paper I signed (which I thought was the whole contract) only makes reference to the guidebook about 2 particular things, in the paragraphs about grievence and disiplinary procedures....

It doesnt say anywhere on what I signed for example "by signing this I have read and understood and agree to adhere to the employee guidebook"


if worse comes to worse and I leave after a weeks notice how likely is it that they could sue me ? and if so what fo ? I mean in monetary terms

 

[scothost]

Well, anything else aside the worst they could sue you for is 3 weeks salary if you give them 1 and work it.

Someone like employment law clinic will be along to shoot me down for that comment though

 

[kbond]

Well, anything else aside the worst they could sue you for is 3 weeks salary if you give them 1 and work it.

Someone like employment law clinic will be along to shoot me down for that comment though

right

would they only be able to sue me for losses though ?? I mean I wont of been paid for the 3 weeks I hadnt worked so if they did have employ someone else their wages would just be what they would of paid me so in other words they wouldnt have a loss ????

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

If your contract refers to and binds you to it's employee handbook and in there it says your notice period is 4 weeks, then its 4 weeks.

Can't disagree with this - this edited section anyway!

The paper I signed (which I thought was the whole contract) only makes reference to the guidebook about 2 particular things, in the paragraphs about grievence and disiplinary procedures....

It doesnt say anywhere on what I signed for example "by signing this I have read and understood and agree to adhere to the employee guidebook"


if worse comes to worse and I leave after a weeks notice how likely is it that they could sue me ? and if so what fo ? I mean in monetary terms

The contract will be a lot more than two sides of A4, but a principal Statement of Particulars (which can be about 2 A4 pages) will be what you signed. There are some elements of the particulars that can be provided separately, including providing these in documents that the employee has reasonable access to - such as the staff handbook. It's up to the employee to hunt this out, you can't expect everything to be handed to you - and this can include the notice of termination (see s.1 (4)(e) & s.2 (3) of the Employment Rights Act 1996 for details)..

In practice, enforcing this is rare, but you have to consider that the employer has incurred costs in a recruitment & induction process, and therefore wants to recoup at least some of this. Not unreasonable.


Karl Limpert

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

Well, anything else aside the worst they could sue you for is 3 weeks salary if you give them 1 and work it.

Someone like employment law clinic will be along to shoot me down for that comment though

Absolutely had no plans to do that Scot! But then I posted, and you teased me to reply again!

Rushing out the door, so can't give it more consideration right now. There may be grounds for the employer to go for more - perhaps they planned to have a handover period during the employment ending, which could be an extra cost now - but I would expect the notice period is the most likely costs that would be pursued.


Karl Limpert

 

[kbond]

Can't disagree with this - this edited section anyway!




The contract will be a lot more than two sides of A4, but a principal Statement of Particulars (which can be about 2 A4 pages) will be what you signed. There are some elements of the particulars that can be provided separately, including providing these in documents that the employee has reasonable access to - such as the staff handbook. It's up to the employee to hunt this out, you can't expect everything to be handed to you - and this can include the notice of termination (see s.1 (4)(e) & s.2 (3) of ails)..

In practice, enforcing this is rare, but you have to consider that the employer has incurred costs in a recruitment & induction process, and therefore wants to recoup at least some of this. Not unreasonable.


Karl Limpert

ok I hear what you are saying. I would of thought though that if a document, be it a contract or staff handbook is legally binding then surely I would of been made aware of it and its importance as I said the only mention the handbook gets is in relation to disiplinary and greivence´s...........it doesnt say or bring to my attention the fact that otehr terms/conditions apply

so then if they do sue me, being that I have only been there 4 weeks, still in probationary period and still training and basically its a small office with me and the boss in...how likely is it they will/can sue an if so for how much do you think ?????

 

[scothost]

Above all else.....

See, I told you Karl would come along

 

Give them 4 weeks notice and go on the sick

Like your style.

Interesting, you've only been there for a month - is there no mention of a probabtionary period in your contract? The majority of contracts include this as its an easy get out for them (and you) if they don't think you are suitable for the job.

I am interested to know what you do? Is it a highly skilled job etc?

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

ok I hear what you are saying. I would of thought though that if a document, be it a contract or staff handbook is legally binding then surely I would of been made aware of it and its importance as I said the only mention the handbook gets is in relation to disiplinary and greivence´s...........it doesnt say or bring to my attention the fact that otehr terms/conditions apply

The employer has two months to issue the Statement of Particulars, so still in time. But to apply your reasoning - about its importance - surely you would have been better of to make yourself aware of it if you were so concerned?

so then if they do sue me, being that I have only been there 4 weeks, still in probationary period and still training and basically its a small office with me and the boss in...how likely is it they will/can sue an if so for how much do you think ?????

Can't give a likelihood of them suing, but no reason why not if you do leave them in the lurch.


Karl Limpert

 

[yorkshirejames]

The contract will be a lot more than two sides of A4, but a principal Statement of Particulars (which can be about 2 A4 pages) will be what you signed. There are some elements of the particulars that can be provided separately, including providing these in documents that the employee has reasonable access to - such as the staff handbook. It's up to the employee to hunt this out, you can't expect everything to be handed to you - and this can include the notice of termination (see s.1 (4)(e) & s.2 (3) of the Employment Rights Act 1996 for details)..

In practice, enforcing this is rare, but you have to consider that the employer has incurred costs in a recruitment & induction process, and therefore wants to recoup at least some of this. Not unreasonable.


Karl Limpert

I'm going to respectfully disagree with Karl, and say that for this handbook to be vaild on the notice period issue there needs to be a clause in the document he/she signed (whether a statement of particulars or a full blown contract) referening the handbook, and not just a general clause referring to another document.

Why are you leaving? If its something like harassment at work (even if minor) then this could be used in your favour.

 

[kbond]

well I left today.....they said they will "be in touch".......... I am owed a few days wages, guess I can kiss godbye to that !!!

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

I'm going to respectfully disagree with Karl,

Don't you just love a bit of disagreement: life would be too boring if we all thought the same way & spoke in unison!

I guess a boring evening then, as while I didn't make it clear earlier in the week (I was keen to get home), the Statement of Particulars (which can be issued in parts) can refer the employee to the staff handbook or another document for details of the notice period, this would have to expressly state what it is pertaining to & where the details can be found. It wouldn't be good enough to simply issue a note to employees with the bare minimum of their name, start date, rate of pay, holidays, and the couple of other things necessary in a "Principal Statement", with a general remark to read the staff handbook for everything else; the note would need to have a section about Notice Periods, clearly stating where these details can be readily accessed.

Even without the ERA properly followed (for the Statement) though, I would still suspect that the contract could be found to require 12 weeks notice, but nonetheless claims for damages are rare. Withholding wages would be unlawful, as this would be a penalty for breach of contract, but perhaps best left for both parties in this case.



Karl Limpert

 

[kbond]

Don't you just love a bit of disagreement: life would be too boring if we all thought the same way & spoke in unison!

I guess a boring evening then, as while I didn't make it clear earlier in the week (I was keen to get home), the Statement of Particulars (which can be issued in parts) can refer the employee to the staff handbook or another document for details of the notice period, this would have to expressly state what it is pertaining to & where the details can be found. It wouldn't be good enough to simply issue a note to employees with the bare minimum of their name, start date, rate of pay, holidays, and the couple of other things necessary in a "Principal Statement", with a general remark to read the staff handbook for everything else; the note would need to have a section about Notice Periods, clearly stating where these details can be readily accessed.

Even without the ERA properly followed (for the Statement) though, I would still suspect that the contract could be found to require 12 weeks notice, but nonetheless claims for damages are rare. Withholding wages would be unlawful, as this would be a penalty for breach of contract, but perhaps best left for both parties in this case.



Karl Limpert

In the contract I signed, it had my salary, sick benefits, pension and some other stuff (nothing about notice periods)

at the bottom it said about disiplinary procedures and said ..........refer to the employee guidebook

no where did it say eg for notice periods please see the employee guidebook

there was no reference whatsoever to notice periods at all anywhere

 

[kbond]

Like your style.

Interesting, you've only been there for a month - is there no mention of a probabtionary period in your contract? The majority of contracts include this as its an easy get out for them (and you) if they don't think you are suitable for the job.

I am interested to know what you do? Is it a highly skilled job etc?

yes I am on a 12 week probationary

its not a highly skilled job no.....I am (was) a receptionsit !

 

[Vending Siting Services]

If you are in employment, I thought the general rule was one day's notice from either side within first month of your employment? I am no expert here, but our contracts of employment have differing lengths of notice period depending when the notice has been given, ie first month 1 day's notice, thereafter one week/one month depending upon their role within the company.

We have had staff "just leave" without giving us notice causing us a temporary inconvenience.

What kind of employment are you in?

Regards.

Barbara

 

[kbond]

If you are in employment, I thought the general rule was one day's notice from either side within first month of your employment? I am no expert here, but our contracts of employment have differing lengths of notice period depending when the notice has been given, ie first month 1 day's notice, thereafter one week/one month depending upon their role within the company.

We have had staff "just leave" without giving us notice causing us a temporary inconvenience.

What kind of employment are you in?

Regards.

Barbara

Im a receptionist

 

[Tej]

LOL... all seems so laughable!.. you are going to be sued??

Good start to a Saturday morning!!

 

[kbond]

LOL... all seems so laughable!.. you are going to be sued??

Good start to a Saturday morning!!

yeah its been a week thats for sure !!!!!

I will wait and see what happens.........I suppose thenfirst step is a letter from the solicitor !

 

[tgsmartshop]

My view on this is practical, not legalistic....

Do you / will you ever, need a reference from this employer?
if you need a good one stay and work 4 weeks, if you don't, just leave.

You've given them notice, you should've looked or asked for the handbook, but you didn't.... you're now jumping ship because the grass is greener.

If you've had your last pay cheque and don't care about the reference, you can leave and in my own opinion they won't come after you for anything... they will just curse you after you have gone.

Up to you really!

 

[Cromulent]

You must be one hell of a receptionist if the company is threatening to sue you if you leave after a month .

 

[thebigIAM]

Just imagine, you say to them, 'do your worst, then.'

They do. They sue. They win a judgment and an award, say for the sake of argument, £3000.

You offer to pay at £10 per month, which is accepted as reasonable by the court.

Not much of a victory, that.

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

In the contract I signed, it had my salary, sick benefits, pension and some other stuff (nothing about notice periods)

at the bottom it said about disiplinary procedures and said ..........refer to the employee guidebook

no where did it say eg for notice periods please see the employee guidebook

there was no reference whatsoever to notice periods at all anywhere

Given the information that has emerged, I can't imagine for a moment the company suing. Possible, if they feel they need to get a temp in to cover your duties for a few weeks, but the cost of litigation would quickly become disproportionate to their losses.

Regarding the signing of documents, these clearly were not comprehensive so don't form the whole contract of employment. At the moment, they haven't issued the statement of particulars they are legally obliged to issue, as this should include (or direct you to a place where you can find) the notice periods that apply to the job. Simply because they haven't issued them yet doesn't prevent them from issuing them within the two months of you starting, and failing that, a tribunal could (and I'd expect would) determine the notice period to be per the staff handbook.

All rather irrelevant if you've already left, and probably irrelevant unless they do decide to sue, but I would be surprised to be honest. You've quit, so focus on the new job, and seek advice if (rather than when) anything more is heard.


Karl Limpert

 

[kbond]

You must be one hell of a receptionist if the company is threatening to sue you if you leave after a month .

well I would have to agree !!!

 

[kbond]

Thanks everyone for your comments

Apart from this I do have an impecable work record and all this really came out of the blue....the new job I applied for months ago and even before I accepted the receptionsit job I called to new one to see if I could find out any info...they said I didnt have a job and couldnt say if I would be offered one, I wouldnt of taken the receptionist job if I knew the other one would come off......its a goverment job and its has taken a long time for security checks, references etc plus I had to pass tests, the process has taken a very very long time

So will wait to see what happens and if they pay me my outstanding wages

Thanks again

 

[internetspaceships]

Let me see if I've got this one right guys.

Ok, I take on a new receptionsit who decides after a week that she's not right for this job and has a better one to go to.

Now, a receptionist is often the first point of contact for any client of my company so yeah, I'll make her life hell and try to force her to work her notice period.

Oh wait.....................

 

[kbond]

Now, a receptionist is often the first point of contact for any client of my company so yeah, I'll make her life hell and try to force her to work her notice period.

I sure your receptionist will make a great first point of contact for your clients when you are making her life hell !!!!!

 

[internetspaceships]

Maybe you missed the irony?

 

[kbond]

Maybe you missed the irony?

I think I did......apologies its been a LONG week !!

 

[internetspaceships]

hehe

Absolutely no worries at all

 

[yorkshirejames]

Let me see if I've got this one right guys.

Ok, I take on a new receptionsit who decides after a week that she's not right for this job and has a better one to go to.

Now, a receptionist is often the first point of contact for any client of my company so yeah, I'll make her life hell and try to force her to work her notice period.

Oh wait.....................

Ha ha - very good practical point