Non Dom status

[gpietersz]

Why would we need an excuse to discuss Sunak?

You do need an excuse if you want to post a political thread in the accounts and finance forum.

 

[Newchodge]

I never understood who people thought it was OK for unearned income to be taxed at a lower (much lower in the standard rate band) than unearned income.

The answer to that probably relates to the wealth, power and influence of those with large amounts of untaxed, unearned income.

 

[Newchodge]

You do need an excuse if you want to post a political thread in the accounts and finance forum.

I am not convinced that discussing rh Chancellor's tax status and the benefit to his family of his wife's tax status is a political thread.

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

Was Lord Justice Taylor a judge? Was Andy Burnham a politician?

I believe Andy Burnham was still in education at the time Taylor LJ published their report.

Has the Chancellor made any changes to the non-dom rules since he came into power?

I believe so - for a start, in stamp duty land tax in 2021. Nothing to address the main issue of non-dom status though, despite some (from his own party) criticising the rules… while his own household availed of the rules.

Can the Chancellor make changes to the tax laws without the agreement of parliament?

By convention, it’s only the approval of the Commons that’s required – the Lords don’t block financial bills.

And the Conservatives have a large majority in the Commons, so agreement is usually taken as a given; sometimes it gets challenged, but it’s rare.

I agree with @NickGrogan she is not a politician or a British citizen so she should be free to manage her own affairs.

The Ministerial Code, signed by Prime Minister, Boris Johnson, says otherwise: .

Procedure 7.3 On appointment to each new office, Ministers must provide
their Permanent Secretary with a full list in writing of all interests which might be thought to give rise to a conflict. The list should also cover interests of the Minister’s spouse or partner and close family which might be thought to give rise to a conflict.

If the Chancellor was a woman and her husband would it attract the same attention.

Perhaps...

All that said, I think OP was trolling.

Once again, an unreasonable attack on the poster rather than the argument.

[Edit to add: it's actually quite an insult to the OP to suggest a live debate in the country is somehow trolling when raised on these forums.

It's a very fair question raised, and so far no meaningful - legal - defence for the activities.]

Its interesting that these laws have lasted so long. I also find it surprising that now that these laws have drawn so much attention, Labour is not comitting to abolishing them outright. The SNP could ask for non-dom status to be abolished for people living in Scotland.

It’s the Tories that were explaining people were “pissed off” with these rules. And the Tories are in gov’t – why couldn’t they make the changes?


Karl Limpert

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

What the answer is I do not know, a tax system that encourages those to hold more of their wealth / income in the UK at much lower rates of tax I might even then be able to see a dentist on the NHS.

I’m going to put my head above the parapet, suggest the Conservative-led Cameron/Osborne done some very good things in this area:

1. George Osborne set up the independent Office of Budget Responsibility;
2. Osborne also set up (but sadly (some of us would argue) didn’t fund particularly well, so its work has been very slow) the Office of Tax Simplification.

Karl Limpert

 

[NickGrogan]

How many years have Labour been in power since the Non Dom laws were created?

My count is 30 years, including with large majorities.

So why hasn't Labour scrapped it, if it is a bad thing?

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

if it is a bad thing?

Who has said it's a bad thing? Oh yes, that was a Conservative MP...

Tax evasion is a bad thing, claiming entitlement to things you're not actually entitled to; I don't actually see why non-dom is a bad thing, per se. It's abuse of the rules that is a bad thing.


Karl Limpert

 

[NickGrogan]

Who has said it's a bad thing? Oh yes, that was a Conservative MP...

Tax evasion is a bad thing, claiming entitlement to things you're not actually entitled to; I don't actually see why non-dom is a bad thing, per se. It's abuse of the rules that is a bad thing.


Karl Limpert

And what rules have actually been abused?

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

And what rules have actually been abused?

Well, that's the question!


This is only a forum, we cannot adjudicate on these things, we can only debate them, raise legitimate questions for consideration, ask whether they should be subject to wider scrutiny; it's for others to decide whether things were actually legal - and in the case of Akshata Murthy, it's actually her husband that has ultimate authority over HMRC, who would consider these matters.

For Sajid Javid, these questions were raised by that bastion of the left-wing media, the Financial Times:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1514491334945652741

For Akshata Murthy, the legal arguments are summarised at

https://twitter.com/x/status/1511964400978214912

Karl Limpert

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

And what rules have actually been abused?

Two feeds, explaining how the law may have been broken in each case.


Can you counter any argument? So far, all posts arguing against the non-dom concerns are just bluster, nothing to actually suggest why these legal views, and concerns based on them, are wrong.


Just offer a single explanation of why the law was definitely not broken, any argument at all to offer any credibility to the claims for non-dom...



Karl Limpert

 

[NickGrogan]

According to government guidelines: “Your domicile’s usually the country your father considered his permanent home when you were born. It may have changed if you moved abroad and you do not intend to return.”

https://www.politicshome.com/news/a...do-people-have-it-and-why-is-it-controversial and HMRC website.

She was born in India, her parents were born in India and are very well connected to Indian business.

She has lived in the UK since 2015. I have no idea of her future plans, do you?

 

[NickGrogan]

What tax is due in India on dividends from Indian companies? Has she paid this tax?

If the tax is paid in India, can the tax be due in the UK. Double taxation.

Are you saying she should pay tax here, not in India?

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

According to government guidelines: “Your domicile’s usually the country your father considered his permanent home when you were born. It may have changed if you moved abroad and you do not intend to return.”

https://www.politicshome.com/news/a...do-people-have-it-and-why-is-it-controversial and HMRC website.

She was born in India, her parents were born in India and are very well connected to Indian business.

She has lived in the UK since 2015. I have no idea of her future plans, do you?

Correct me if I’m wrong, but this appears to be a general summary-statement of what the law is, in relation to non-domiciled status. It doesn’t actually address at all how it could possibly be available as a legal status to Akshata Murthy, nothing of a counter argument to those opinions that suggest she may actually not be entitled to non-dom status, and perhaps could even be investigated by HMRC (a department controlled by her husband).

Rather than just quote what the law says, can you explain how this legal option would be available to her? (You may care to recall, when this tax arrangement was first exposed it was advised to the press that she’s an Indian citizen – which has no relevance whatsoever.

And there has never been an explanation from her office, or the Chancellor’s office, to explain how you would be entitled to non-dom status.)

I have no idea of her future plans, do you?

No, but according to the BBC, she has said she would eventually like to return there [India].


I don't know non-dom tax laws well enough to comment with authority, but I didn't think just liking the idea of returning to the country of her father’s birth is enough.

Please explain Nick, how does this general statement of the law that you’ve provided actually mean anything in the case being debated?


Karl Limpert

 

[gpietersz]

If the tax is paid in India, can the tax be due in the UK. Double taxation.

That is different. non-dom status means you can pay no tax at all. Most likely she is not paying tax on the dividends in India either because she is not resident there. Only a handful of countries (the US and Eritrea, for exampl) tax non-resident citizens.

I think nondom status is a bad thing, but if you offer people a chance not to pay tax they are going to take it.

I don't know non-dom tax laws well enough to comment with authority, but I didn't think just liking the idea of returning to the country of her father’s birth is enough.

She was born in India herself.

However, an intention to return to the other country has never been required. Sigrid Rausig moved here when she was about 20 and is still here at 60. No way will she return to Sweden.

Christopher Ondatjee is 79. Going to move now? He has made a lot of chartiable and political donations here, including an entire new wing for the National Portrait Gallery.

Stuart Gulliver was held to be nondom by a tax tribunal despite the fact that he and his parents were born in Britian and he was UK resident on the grounds that he had established a foreign domincile by working abroad for most of his life.

Ronald Cohen has lived in the UK since he was 12 and is now 76.

Lord Rothermere is nondom purely on the basis that his father lived abroad for a long time.

of all these, I think only Stuart Gulliver's status has ever even been challenged.