New website - few questions

[Newbusiness2010]

Hi all - I've got a meeting with a web designer tomorrow to discuss content/structure for my new website.

I've got no experience in this area and just wondering what sort of questions/requests I should ask for with the web design? The site is initially going to be for 6 pages.

Any ideas appreciated. Many thanks and sorry for the v.open question!!!

 

[no118.co.uk]

What is the business about?

When you meet them, what you need to do is to make sure they understand your business. You must also make sure that they can deliver what they promise. Check out any previous work and ask them if they have any references you can check out.

One thing you need to remember, this is your business but listen to what they prospose, you may not like it, but they may still be right.

Finally, be open minded. this is new for you and it can be a bit daunting, and dont sign on the line on the same day. Think about what they have said, get advice and make sure what they are suggesting will reflect your business

Good luck with it tomorrow

 

[RedEvo]

Make sure they are a reputable and viable company and not a one man band who may not be around when you need them most.

Ask about qualifications. It's not a popular point of view (I await the flack) but make sure they are qualified and not just chancers who've bought Dreamweaver and Dreamweaver for Dummies.

Ask for references you can contact and talk to.

This simple web strategy document might be of some use.

d

 

[eukhost]

Hi all - I've got a meeting with a web designer tomorrow to discuss content/structure for my new website.

I've got no experience in this area and just wondering what sort of questions/requests I should ask for with the web design? The site is initially going to be for 6 pages.

Any ideas appreciated. Many thanks and sorry for the v.open question!!!

Their past experience and portfolio is most important if you are consulting a web designer. You can also find details on their website. You can do small research of businesses in your niche so that you can explain them what you want.

 

[Deleted member 69689]

Hi NewBusiness2010,

If you'd like to send me some details of your requirements I would also give you a quote which you can also use to compare against price and spec.

I have been in the industry for around 8 years, initially as a freelancer and then as Lead Designer/Developer for various agencies, before recently taking the plunge into running my own design studio.

A lot of work I have done has been featured in various Award Galleries such as CSSMania, Faveup, CSS Awards, CSS Clip etc...

For any further help or details please feel free to get in touch.

Thanks,
Scott.

http://www.ikreativ.com
hello[AT]ikreativ.com

 

[Deleted member 69689]

@RedEvo,

I would agree with everything you said except for the qualifications. In this industry they mean nothing, practical experience is much more important.

I have worked with a lot of designers/developers and in the most, the ones from Uni with awesome qualifications are the ones that just can't do the job.

Obviously there are exceptions to the rule.

Also ask them what software they use, if they do happen to say Dreamweaver as RedEvo stated, then I'd be dubious, some genuine developers use it but a lot of people who 'think' they can do the job also use it. Most good developers I know don't use Dreamweaver.

 

[BDR_London]

When designing a new website the most important thing is that it is search engine friendly. Make sure your sites navigation is easy and simple to use. This will help your visitors and the search engines move around your site. Make sure your web designer adds a sitemap and uses the correct meta tags and titles on each page of the site. Also ask your designer if he is going to use a CMS system. A CMS or content managagement system will allow you to easily add content yourself at a later stage without having to know any code.

 

[Deleted member 69689]

A sitemap is not essential, unless your going to manually update it everytime you make site changes, even then it doesn't have that much impact on SEO.

META tags are a must, so are relevant page names and titles. Also make sure any navigation is TEXT based, NOT image based.

 

[ooh]

Hi all - I've got a meeting with a web designer tomorrow to discuss content/structure for my new website.

I've got no experience in this area and just wondering what sort of questions/requests I should ask for with the web design? The site is initially going to be for 6 pages.

Any ideas appreciated. Many thanks and sorry for the v.open question!!!

There's two main stages to making a website (assuming you want results from your website rather than just getting it for its own sake): planning and production. And preceding planning, not specifically website related, there's all the usual marketing basics: work out what it is you offer/do, what your business goal is, your USP, your ideal prospect, etc. All necessary stuff for pretty much any business and invaluable grist to feed into the planning stage of your website, especially ideal prospect.

You haven't stated where you are or what you're going to ask the web guy to do; just production? or planning and production? Might be a good idea to be clear about that first. Right now it sounds to me from what little you say you're in the process of pretty much jumping straight to the production stage, skipping all the really foundational important stuff, the stuff which makes or breaks your site, thus ensuring, unless you're ridiculously lucky, the only results you'll get from your site is you learning that how you went about it doesn't work, and maybe have a few thoughts on what might work next time, which isn't actually as bad and doom-like as I've made it sound; learning is important.

Have you come up with the things described above (planning, marketing basics: work out what it is you... etc.)? If not why on earth are you considering asking someone to produce a website yet? (assuming that is what you're about to do). You're doing so way prematurely IMO.

Part of the planning process I described in this thread: http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=1183829&postcount=8

BTW I found this sentence in your question "The site is initially going to be for 6 pages." worrying. Not that a 6 page website is bad or anything, but specifying such a thing at this point to me is perplexing. Try specifying who your site's for first.


edit: the good thing about the planning stage is, from your point of view, it requires no website/technical skills so you can do it yourself. In fact you're probably best to do it. At least some of it.

 

[bdw]

Make sure they are a reputable and viable company and not a one man band who may not be around when you need them most.

IMO this is bad advice.

I am a "one man band" and I am in my ninth year. The fact that someone is self employed does not make them disreputable. In fact in most cases self employed people working from home will beat quotes from larger companies with larger overheads and people on the payroll. (Oh and companies with employees go down the tubes too you know)

Regarding qualifications, for web designers (a) experience and (b) a verifiable portfolio of satisfied clients is much more important. This business is much too young for qualifications to play that big a role just yet. Also, what qualifications are right for a web designer? Most people would not be able to tell you. As well as engineering quaifications I have an HNC in computing gained in 1992 before web design was even recognised. An HNC sounds good but it means nothing in these circumstances.

Also, if you are having a meeting with someone about a six page website you are likely to be paying more than you need to. Your designer must get paid for taking the time to attend this meeting whether or not it shows on the quote.

 

Hi all - I've got a meeting with a web designer tomorrow to discuss content/structure for my new website.

I've got no experience in this area and just wondering what sort of questions/requests I should ask for with the web design? The site is initially going to be for 6 pages.

Any ideas appreciated. Many thanks and sorry for the v.open question!!!

If your designer does not understand the importance of SEO to a sites success then walk away and find one that does.

Earl

 

[RedEvo]

IMO this is bad advice.

I am a "one man band" and I am in my ninth year. The fact that someone is self employed does not make them disreputable........

I didn't say being a one man band meant you were disreputable but if it suits your argument to take my comment out of context then so be it. I suggested one man bands are prone to come and go and relying on one person is a risky approach if your website is a core part of your business.

So far as qualifications are concerned then I think it's wrong to suggest there are no suitable or applicable ones to the web industry. So far as the 'experience' argument is concerned I also disagree. The real skill is in harnessing the raw talent of new graduates, to disregard them for their lack of experience is a very narrow view.

The bottom line is the web industry is awash with chancers (and no I don't mean you or ALL one man bands) and qualifications are one mechanism for cleaning it up. People who take the time to earn good qualifications are too readily dismissed by the University of Life brigade and it's counter productive IMHO.

A degree or other reputable qualification doesn't equal ability but it shows commitment and that's something I value. In my business I nurture raw talent and invest in people who've invested in themselves. The end result is experienced talented and qualified people. It's a point of view.

d

 

[bdw]

I didn't say being a one man band meant you were disreputable but if it suits your argument to take my comment out of context then so be it.

But you said...

Make sure they are a reputable and viable company and not a one man band who may not be around when you need them most.

You are stating without qualification that "one mand bands" should be avoided. Anyone reading your comment would assume that is what you meant. There is no other meaning so I am sorry but I am afraid that I do not see my comment as being out of context (nor would anyone else reading this.)

The real skill is in harnessing the raw talent of new graduates, to disregard them for their lack of experience is a very narrow view.

Now you are "quoting" me out of context. I did not say this and there is no way that I would simply disregard a graduate for lack of experience. But we were talking about selecting a web designer. I would still say that if a company is established, mature and can provide guarantees and verifiable testimonials this is much more important than qualifications. (This applies to most businesses - not just web design.)
.
.

 

[RedEvo]

You are stating without qualification that "one mand bands" should be avoided.

No, I said avoid one man bands who are not going to be around when you need them most. The signs of the likelihood of this happening are usually clear. Things like mobile numbers and no address. Difficult to get hold of etc.

Anyone reading your comment would assume that is what you meant. There is no other meaning so I am sorry but I am afraid that I do not see my comment as being out of context (nor would anyone else reading this.)

In that case I apologise. I employ a number of one man bands for specialist skills and they play a vital role in the economy. I obviously didn't communicate my thoughts very well. Sorry.

Now you are "quoting" me out of context. I did not say this and there is no way that I would simply disregard a graduate for lack of experience. But we were talking about selecting a web designer. I would still say that if a company is established, mature and can provide guarantees and verifiable testimonials this is much more important than qualifications. (This applies to most businesses - not just web design.)

On this we differ. I'm a fan of qualified people

d

 

[bdw]

Devils Advocate: OK Redevo, what qualifications do you think people should have that qualify them to build websites?

 

[RedEvo]

The creation of a successful web site draws on a cross section of skills. The people who work for me have a range of quals. These include:

Masters in Information Systems
Masters in Design and Digital Media
BA Graphic Design
BSc Computing for Internet & Multimedia
BSc Computer Science

Then there are the marketing specialists with their own skill set and associated qualifications.

d

 

[bdw]

You mention at least five degree courses above and that's the point I am making. Joe Bloggs does not have a clue what qualifies people to build websites. I am 61 years of age. I have had a "good kick at the ball" as they say and I personally would not have thought that a Masters in Information Systems or a BSc in computer science were relevant qualifications for web designers.

I am certainly not knocking these qualifications and your staff are very highly and probably appropriately qualified. I appreciate that I may be wrong in the above but I have been around for a while and I am in the business so if I don't properly understand website design qualifications what chance does Joe bloggs have? People know that doctors need to be MDs, nurses have to be RNs and electrical engineers may require a degree in electrical engineering ... but web designers?

The point I am making is that the web design business is still in it's infancy. Possibly the Internet and Multimedia course that you mention will become the accepted qualification but as of yet there is no universally recognised, standard qualification for website designers. That makes it hard to check qualifications. Also, website design requires many separate skills. (Obviously I do not have all of these, which is why I subcontract some of my work to those who do.)

(Incidentally I regularly get job applications from newly qualified IT graduates and some of them cannot spell or write in reasonable English. I am not sure what they teach them at Uni nowadays but it's certainly not English and communication skills... harrumphh!)

 

[RedEvo]

Companies we work for audit our staff and ask to see their qualifications. The fact I mentioned several degree courses is inconsequential. If you want to dumb it down they all have relevant degrees but even Mr Bloggs understands the difference between qualifications and no qualifications.

This situation isn't peculiar to web design, it's a common thing especially in the UK. Apparently the guy who comes to fix my washing machine is an 'engineer' although I'm sure if I asked which chartered body he was with he tell me he only flies schedule.

The whole qualifications system in the UK IT industry is a mess, that's why the BCS are putting so much energy into it.

As for the relevance of a BSc Comp Sci in web design it depends if yoiu are talking about simple HTML static websites or dbase driven sites other functionality. We are currently integrating Joomla and Sugar for a client writing PHP classes to handle synchronisation etc, I'm quite glad my programmer has a degree in computer science and knows what he's doing.

There are many many great technicians, developers and designers with no qualifications. All I'm saying is I like my people to be who they say they are and to have invested in themselves by acheiving qualifications to back up their abilities.

Talking in general across many industries there are far too many have a go heroes, as evidenced by programs liks Watchdog, and the general public usually appreciate some measure of competence whether it be Corgi or Billy Smarts Circus.

d

 

[Deleted member 69689]

QUOTE "As for the relevance of a BSc Comp Sci in web design it depends if yoiu are talking about simple HTML static websites or dbase driven sites other functionality. We are currently integrating Joomla and Sugar for a client writing PHP classes to handle synchronisation etc, I'm quite glad my programmer has a degree in computer science and knows what he's doing."

I don't have a Degree in computer science but I'm pretty damn sure I could write the PHP classes for the additional functionality, I could also create the same functionality in Rails.

Cheers.

 

[RedEvo]

QUOTE "As for the relevance of a BSc Comp Sci in web design it depends if yoiu are talking about simple HTML static websites or dbase driven sites other functionality. We are currently integrating Joomla and Sugar for a client writing PHP classes to handle synchronisation etc, I'm quite glad my programmer has a degree in computer science and knows what he's doing."

I don't have a Degree in computer science but I'm pretty damn sure I could write the PHP classes for the additional functionality, I could also create the same functionality in Rails.

Cheers.

So what? I've no idea what point you are making. My point is I respect qualifications and I respect people who study and achieve them. Nobody said people without qualifications couldn't program or design. Read the thread my friend.

d

 

[Faevilangel]

I am going to against RedEvo here, a qualification means diddly squat in web design. There is no set standard / qualification as anyone can get a copy of dreamweaver and ammend templates. I did a college course for "web design" and I can say I learnt nothing that has helped me at all. It was all based on old age wysiwyg editors using tables.

The only thing you should need is your portfolio, your portfolio is your qualification. Without it no one is going to take you seriously. A qualification may say you have passed xx course that has nothing to do with web design, but a portfolio shows you can do the job. Experience over qualifications.

If I was looking to hire someone, I won't go on their qualifications, I want to see their work.

 

[RedEvo]

I think to play down what somebody learns on a 4 year full time degree course (it's 4 years here in Scotland) as meaning "diddly squat" speaks volumes.

I'm happy to agree to disagree

d

 

[Leyla]

Hi All

If I was looking to hire someone, I won't go on their qualifications, I want to see their work.

I know "diddly squat" about web design, but have to agree that experience/example of work in the real world speaks volumes.

x

 

[RedEvo]

Of course proof of ability is important, I'm not suggesting it isn't. My whole point here is one of supporting people who take the time, blood, sweat and tears to earn a worthwhile qualification.

It seems I'm in a minority, which I'm happy to be

d

 

[Tej]

Of course proof of ability is important, I'm not suggesting it isn't. My whole point here is one of supporting people who take the time, blood, sweat and tears to earn a worthwhile qualification.

It seems I'm in a minority, which I'm happy to be

d

I would agree with your sentiments. I don't think you are in a minority.

Some people think they can do a "crash course" for 5 minutes.. and they are proficient.

Then, when they cannot handle it, cos they have not learnt from the ground up.. they come onto forums to get their answers.. from those who have sweated and got their foundations right.. IMO

 

[Deleted member 69689]

So what? I've no idea what point you are making. My point is I respect qualifications and I respect people who study and achieve them. Nobody said people without qualifications couldn't program or design. Read the thread my friend.

d

How about respect for the people that are completely self-taught and are pretty damn good at it. Surely it's far harder to teach yourself than to be spoon fed everything in a classroom with a little test at the end of it.

Like I said before, I've worked with a lot of outstanding designers and developers and the best ones are self-taught.

 

[Tej]

How about respect for the people that are completely self-taught and are pretty damn good at it. Surely it's far harder to teach yourself than to be spoon fed everything in a classroom with a little test at the end of it.

Like I said before, I've worked with a lot of outstanding designers and developers and the best ones are self-taught.

That is a matter of opinion

 

[Tej]

Like I said before, I've worked with a lot of outstanding designers and developers and the best ones are self-taught.

Hopefully, they gave you a good grounding when you worked with them.

 

[Deleted member 69689]

Hopefully, they gave you a good grounding when you worked with them.

No. I collaborated with them on various projects.

After 8 years in the design industry I don't think I need a grounding.

 

[cmcp]

Any course called "web design" at a college is a bums on seat affair. Web design is not about using some application or editing a template. A monkey can do that.

I'd be willing to bet 100 self taught kids wouldn't have the fundamental design knowledge of 1 Glasgow Art School graduate.

 

[Deleted member 69689]

I'd be willing to bet 100 Glasgow Art School graduates don't have a clue about user interaction, user experience, call-to-actions and whitespace in web design.

 

[saxondale]

I'd be willing to bet 100 Glasgow Art School graduates don't have a clue about user interaction, user experience, call-to-actions and whitespace in web design.

hell, I know all that and I`m an alarm engineer .............. go learn a skill, then boast.

 

[MASSEY]

Its a really debatable what you need to do to be able to call yourself a "web designer" you can make a site copy and pasting off google.

And do people still build things fresh for people any more?

Im sure any people who build sites now just copy and paste out of there saved files from previous work.

 

[Deleted member 69689]

hell, I know all that and I`m an alarm engineer .............. go learn a skill, then boast.

Know all what? And web design & development isn't a skill?

 

[Deleted member 69689]

Its a really debatable what you need to do to be able to call yourself a "web designer" you can make a site copy and pasting off google.

And do people still build things fresh for people any more?

Im sure any people who build sites now just copy and paste out of there saved files from previous work.

That's easy, you just need to be able to make pretty pictures in Photoshop then click a few buttons in Dreamweaver!

 

[saxondale]

And web design & development isn't a skill

yes, quite .............

 

[RedEvo]

How about respect for the people that are completely self-taught and are pretty damn good at it. Surely it's far harder to teach yourself than to be spoon fed everything in a classroom with a little test at the end of it.

Utter nonsense. What do you think people do at university? Do you know how hard it is to get a good quality degree?

Spoon fed? You really have no clue about what goes on inside universities if you think students are spoon fed. Good degrees are the result of hard work, lots of it.

I'm sure you are very good and proud to be self taught but suggesting university is a walk in the park is naive in the extreme.

d

 

[cmcp]

I'd be willing to bet 100 Glasgow Art School graduates don't have a clue about user interaction, user experience, call-to-actions and whitespace in web design.

You're missing the point.

They'll have all the same skills as Jimmy Bedroom, plus 4 years of design fundamentals. Design is about planning and communication - being able to articulate those fundamental choices is an essential part of being a designer. I'm not gonna take that gamble when hiring, I prefer to work with a standard that isn't just visual - I don't have time to translate made up words and "teach yourself"-esque quotes you get on here day in day out.

And I'm pretty sure they teach spacing in art school.

 

[Deleted member 69689]

yes, quite .............

Ahh shoot! Looks like I've wasted 8 years of my life then, I suppose I'll just go back to driving Class 1 HGV's for a living. That is if it's still considered a 'skill'.

 

[saxondale]

Ahh shoot! Looks like I've wasted 8 years of my life then, I suppose I'll just go back to driving Class 1 HGV's for a living. That is if it's still considered a 'skill'.

who said anything about wasting your life? - jeez talk about mood swings.