Needed, top 10 tips for running a fantastic cafe

[MrsPWN]

I have wanted to run my own cafe/coffee shop for years and one has become available locally that I am interested in

The location is a small village called Harlech, on the coast of Snowdonia National Park, with a castle and good tourist numbers in the summer. It is opposite the only car park and has lovely big windows, infact have a look yourself http://details.cwideonline.net/bad/details/POM100200.PDF It is now reduced to £139,000. It is horribly rundown, with an open plan kitchen full or old and rusty domestic appliances.

My 2 worries are the current owners have only been there 2 years, why haven't they made a go of it? and what would I do in the winter?

I am hoping the answer to number 1 concern is they are just rubbish and as for the winter, I am thinking of taking out 1 table and 2 rusty freezers they have in the seating area and add soft play equipment, big books etc and make it into somewhere suitable for mums to meet up, hold toddler birthday parties etc.

Loads and loads of other ideas but would love to hear what you guys think, I know this comes up a lot but it is always facinating to get other opinions.

So come on, am I mad to think about giving up a steady wellish paid job for a pipedream? If it fails I can just change it back to a big house and get another job, right?

 

[Richie N]

We just got rid of ours and it's not the best time to purchase a cafe imo.
Obviously depends on location, turnover, profit etc but it's hard work for very little money.

Tips would be for running;

Source best suppliers for prices of drinks and dry goods etc, you will find the likes of Brakes etc will try and beat 3663 and others, they will heavily discount prices but only if you ask and provide a match from alternative suppliers.

Monitor stock on a daily basis, ensuring food is labelled according to health and safety regulations.

Provide fresh bread and cakes, speciality breads is always good. We always done our sandwiches on these breads, very popular, healthy as well.

Extend the opening hours for breakfast if you decide to take that cafe, I would open at 8am.

Have part time staff rather than full time staff, there will be gaps where you don't need extra staff and it will cut your wages bill. Plus then you will have more staff for cover if required.

Get yourself on a food hygiene course, also read loads of books on running a cafe and the start up of a cafe, we found these really helpful with advice and tips.

Food Safety regulations is also a must for knowledge.

Do plenty of market research, offer different products to your competitors and make it about quality, not the cheapest.

 

[Richie N]

As for the winter, I would have an outside catering side of the business with this, delivering sandwiches etc to businesses, do parties, etc. This would help you through the quieter months.

 

[MrsPWN]

Thanks Richie, how many covers did your cafe have? I am wondering if there is a minimum needed to break even?

I should have said I am a cook by trade, so I am used to the HACCP, record keeping side of things.

I am thinking this would be a one man band type thing, just with someone helping out so I can get a day off, is this realistic if I can schedule deliveries for before opening time?

 

[Indivijewelistic]

I ran a pub kitchen for a couple of years and one of the things that helped considerably was keeping the menu narrow enough to ensure a good speedy service. Getting in a bain marie to keep beans/veg hot, pre cooking baked potatoes etc. all helps. You want them to sit down, be catered for quickly, eat and leave, so that the table can be used by others. A narrow menu will also help to ensure the quality of the foods. I agree with the two previously mentioned main suppliers but I would also try to stock from local bakers etc., who can deliver daily as you can then mention in the menu that you are using local suppliers (people like the micro economics of that sort of thing).

Hope it helps and good luck with the venture.

 

[mobyme]

Extend the opening hours for breakfast if you decide to take that cafe, I would open at 8am.

Have you ever been in Harlech at eight in the morning? You would get terribly lonely.

 

[Scousejock]

You will have to let us know if this does happen. I love to take a ride to that area during the sunny summers days (pmsl we have so many of those) and generally meet up with several others from various areas so would love to come and see how things are going if you do manage to make this happen.

Now is not an ideal time for a lot of business and many are struggling but that does not mean that you can not make this a financial success. I am also in the process of opening a new business and I am sure with the right plans and hard work it will be fruitful and anjoyable.

 

[MrsPWN]

Thanks, will do
We have huge numbers of bikers ride through this way, wonder how to attract them?

 

[Scousejock]

I am not sure it would be easy to attract them as such as most are just in the area for a days ride and will stop somewhere either they know about or that they pass. Word of mouth is the thing that will help you pick up this type of business the most.

 

[Richie N]

Have you ever been in Harlech at eight in the morning? You would get terribly lonely.

No but 9.30am sounds a bit late?

 

[Richie N]

Thanks Richie, how many covers did your cafe have? I am wondering if there is a minimum needed to break even?

I should have said I am a cook by trade, so I am used to the HACCP, record keeping side of things.

I am thinking this would be a one man band type thing, just with someone helping out so I can get a day off, is this realistic if I can schedule deliveries for before opening time?

About 35-40 seating.
It definitely helps if you have the background, that is always a plus as there is more to it than most realise.

I would say probably two staff, you wouldn't be able to do it all on your own, you will need breaks as well.

We sourced our bread from a local bakery, so ingredients like that from local suppliers is good.
Drinks are ok with brakes or 3663 etc.
Never rely on deliveries coming before opening times, we often had issues on Monday mornings in time for lunch.

As the other poster said, keep your menu simple for your benefit and the customers, sometimes too much choice can cause you a lot of wastage.

Good luck with your venture if you decide to go for it, you must let us know if you do.

 

[MrsPWN]

Mobyme I missed you post, sounds like you know Harlech, what do you recon?

I do think there may be a market in the summer for breakfasts, all those campers that have realised cooking all their own meals isn't as much fun as they thought,alsomaking bacon butties for the other shop keepers

 

[mobyme]

Mobyme I missed you post, sounds like you know Harlech, what do you recon?

I do think there may be a market in the summer for breakfasts, all those campers that have realised cooking all their own meals isn't as much fun as they thought,alsomaking bacon butties for the other shop keepers

I don't live that far from Harlech as the crow flies and visit it fairly often to meet with one of my business partners.
I take it you are talking about the cafe opposite the small pay and display top car park with the toilets off of the main road?

 

[MrsPWN]

Yup that's the one

Richie, I checked out the paperwork again and think the opening hours shown are that of the estate agents lol

 

[mobyme]

I've got to be honest and reckon you would have your work cut out to make it pay. The trouble with Harlech is it's either full or empty especially that particular bit.
Where would the bikers for instance leave their bikes?

 

[Jonathanlouis]

Originality with Utility so...

Think abut mum's groups, local book club meets for the Bikers a special so they tell all others to stop by as it loves bikers

As much as get peple in out and dusted make sure you also allow for those who want to stay and write the next Harry Potter

Also pastry chef/cakes but great ones so everyone knows you for that and comes winter/summer as it is worth crossing counties for

Private parties catered - Speciality coffees PM me if you are interested in a coffee add that I have just become global distributor of and always looking for distribs as well as users/retailers - It is going down like hot cakes here in Glastonbury

Let Nat Trust know you are there - speciality in area - cross promo - yes I know they do their own thing but there are always complementary promos you can arrange

Look different, be different and utterly delicious and it should sing!

All the best and let me know when it opens - we'll come up

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

1. Good value well cooked food in sufficient quantity.
2. Good value well cooked food in sufficient quantity
3. Good value well cooked food in sufficient quantity

etc.,


Good food will always attract.

Of course the ambience, cleanliness, speed of service all need to be right but are irrelevant without decent grub.

For the Bikers why don't you do a 'Bikers Bap' or similar, an all day breakfast in an oversized crusty roll. Big sign outside with some mouthwatering copy to draw them in...

Change the sign every few days........'Honda riders love Bikers Baps!'
Kwakas love our Bikers Bap!''


We had a burger van round these parts who used to advertise an 'Animal Burger' and whilst it took some eating, anybody who had one told all and subdry about the experience.

ANIMAL BURGER RECIPE
2 Burgers
2 rashers Bacon
Mushroom
Onions
Pineapple slices
Sausage
Egg

..oh and a bap to put it all in

 

[MrsPWN]

OMG who would put pineapple in that bap wrong on every level!

There are a couple of local cafe's that I would like to style mine on, mainly because they don't do the bog standard food, last week I had bacon, brie and cranberry pannini in one and chicken tandoori wrap in the other, maybe 80's for the rest of the UK but revolutionary here

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

OMG who would put pineapple in that bap wrong on every level!

There are a couple of local cafe's that I would like to style mine on, mainly because they don't do the bog standard food, last week I had bacon, brie and cranberry pannini in one and chicken tandoori wrap in the other, maybe 80's for the rest of the UK but revolutionary here

Burger with Pineapple and onions was standard fayre round these parts

 

[Richie N]

We did Brie, Bacon and Cranberry panini, very popular sandwich.

 

Funding wise, the biggest mistake generally made with eating/drinking establishments is cutting budgets too fine.

It sounds like you have considerable refurb work to do, so it is vital that your budgets take into account the full cost of this (with a good margin for error) and that you can realistically open in the timeframe allowed.

Similarly, if you are applying for additional licenses, remember that these can take a long time and cost money.

Prepare your business plan on both best and worst case scenarios to establish if there is enough flesh on the bone (every business plan has a fall-over point, you just need to be sure that it isn't too close).

Best of luck!

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

I didn't read your first post thoroughly and echo 'funding portals' comments above.

Some years ago my mother in law looked a cafe which needed some tlc but was outbid by somebody who it turned out she knew from work. The first thing they done was to have the Health Inspector call, who summarily condemned the aircon in the kitchen requiring a replacement system at a cost of some £4,000! Then the cooker went kaput and was so old that spares were no longer available.

On the aesthetic front the WW on the windows instead of the simple word CAFE can't have helped.

Just a thought regards the trading style of the cafe. Whilst on holiday some years ago we came across an English Cafe that had solid wooden tables during the day and offered everything from a slice of toast to a basic meal. From very late afternoon into the early evening they would transform the feel of the place by arranging the tables in a less formal fashion, putting table cloths on them, flower arrangements in the middle etc., They'd drag out a couple of screens which were placed in front of the windows, dip the lights and put some background music on in place of the daytime radio. A different menu that reflected the time of day offered simple fayre.

They didn't try to become a fully blown restaurant but done just enough to encourage families who were camping on local sites to put on clean shirts and eat out for a reasonable cost. From memory they were all done and dusted by 9pm.

 

[MrsPWN]

Thanks guys, unbelievably the estate agent is closed today so unlikely I will be able to get a look see tomorrow

I think getting Enviromental Health round before making an offer (if we get that far) would be a great idea, not sure the present owners would agree tho, would be a bit awkward if they condemmed it :redface: I have noticed they are not displaying their "Score on thr Door" so maybe a visit is due anyway.

I like the idea of doing a basic evening trade, I wasn't going to bother as there are several restaurants nearby but thinking about it I would be daft not to.

 

[crphillips]

I'd say good coffee is essential. There are too many Cafes selling naff coffee. There are only approx 2 places in Leeds I would say make good coffee. Learn how to make coffee on a fully manual espresso machine......none of these fully auto 'bean to cup' machines! Buy coffee that has been roasted within two weeks. You'll get loyal regulars coming back again and again.

I've just been to Leeds today and spent approx £5 on a couple of coffees and then spent another £30 on 3 bags of Square Mile Summer Espresso Beans. So that's £35 turnover in one sale. I wouldn't have spent a penny at Starbucks or any other poor establishment.

 

[MuchAdo]

Is the caravan park in Harlech still there?

If so, could you offer picnic hampers for collection/delivery, for families going out for the day? Or an evening meal delivery service - good food at reasonable prices, for when mum/dad don't want to cook on holiday? Or some kind of really good local ice cream, attractive to both adults and kids, rather than your standard lollies?

Being dog-friend might help - we go to Wales with our dog, and will always pick a cafe with outside seating, who are happy for her to sit quietly under the table while we eat. A doggy water bowl is always appreciated too!

And I'd totally agree that good coffee is essential

 

[mike.davis]

So come on, am I mad to think about giving up a steady wellish paid job for a pipedream?

No not at all. A cafe in this economic state however, yes you are mad.

 

[MrsPWN]

Originality with Utility so...

Think abut mum's groups, local book club meets for the Bikers a special so they tell all others to stop by as it loves bikers

As much as get peple in out and dusted make sure you also allow for those who want to stay and write the next Harry Potter

Also pastry chef/cakes but great ones so everyone knows you for that and comes winter/summer as it is worth crossing counties for

Private parties catered - Speciality coffees PM me if you are interested in a coffee add that I have just become global distributor of and always looking for distribs as well as users/retailers - It is going down like hot cakes here in Glastonbury

Let Nat Trust know you are there - speciality in area - cross promo - yes I know they do their own thing but there are always complementary promos you can arrange

Look different, be different and utterly delicious and it should sing!

All the best and let me know when it opens - we'll come up

Jonathan, I missed this, I like the idea of contacting groups, we have a couple of companies that do guided tours/walks locally so I could offer free food for the guide if they bring their clients here

Luckily I am pretty good at cakes, I regularly sell them to the visitors at the home I work in, hadn't thought of that as a sideline but deff a good'un

Will be in touch if this ever goes ahead, and I will deffinately offer a free cofee and cake to any UKBF member that pops in

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

Couple more ideas for you.

A Cauldron of Cawl.....(Welsh Stew) for walking parties to 'come home to'. Pre booked, eat in or take away.

Welsh Pizza.... Welsh Rarebit with some pizza like additions.......peppers and the like...

(Yes, i'm a frustrated restauranteur)

 

[MrsPWN]

Good ideas, certainly like the idea of a big pot of something on the go every night. Have been studying it on Google street view and it looks like the giant storage container is on the cafe's land, if so and we can get rid it would give a fab outdoor seating area.

Getting excited now, anyone want to buy my house??

 

[Philip Hoyle]

No not at all. A cafe in this economic state however, yes you are mad.

There are plenty of businesses that are thriving at the moment. Don't believe the media and the doom-mongers that everything is bad. Just be far more cautious than usual and make sure that you can limit your losses if things don't work out.

 

[IndiCafe]

Make it work on paper first.
For example, have you done a forecast P&L? If not, that would be the best place to start. It would be very unwise to start any business without having done your research, and the P&L is the outcome from that research.

Sales Forecast:
Ideally, break it down into number of customers each month, day and hour-in-each-day. You need an idea how many customers you will have on a Wednesday morning in January, compared with a Saturday lunchtime in July. This is difficult info to attain but just because it's difficult don't be tempted to say "oh well, I'll take a chance." That's why cafe's close down after a year or two.

If you're in Snowdonia then it doesn't take a genius to expect it to be highly seasonal. Winter will be fairly dead no matter what you do. So you need to ensure that the summer season provides sufficient customers to support you through the off-season.

Once you have a view of the number of customers, multiply that by your anticipated average spend per customer, to give you a sales value in £.

Cost of sales:
Split this into Materials and Wages.
Materials... you'll need an idea what you'll be putting on the menu if you want to estimate what it costs to buy the ingredients.
Wages... you'll need to gauge how many staff you need at any particular time of the day, throughout the year, based upon your sales forecast. Don't forget to include NI costs on top of hourly rates.
Your total cost of sales should, ideally, be around 40% of your total sales figure, leaving a Gross Profit of around 60%.

Oh, don't forget VAT. 20% of your sales will be taken by the tax man. But this can be offset against VAT paid on your materials costs.

Overheads. These are fixed costs. Your rent (if renting) should ideally be no more than 10% of forecast sales. If it's, say, 20% then you'll struggle to cover the rent and leave enough profit to live on.
Estimate your other overheads. Rates, Utilities, Phones, Advertising, Legal, Accountancy, Bank Charges.

Subtract your total overheads from your Gross Profit to give you a Net Profit figure... before tax. You'll then have to pay tax on that figure.

This forecasting exercise is the best reality check you can have. It shows you whether you will be making a living or working yourself into bankruptcy, as well as solidifying your ideas.

 

[MrsPWN]

Thanks for all that

Had a look round today and was pleasantly suprised. The owner is unwell and only opens 11-4 Thurs to Sun, so huge scope for improvement there.

They employ 4 school leavers and there is always 1 cook (owner) 1 waitress/washer upper and 1 doing sandwiches/cakes etc. From Easter-Oct which is the traditional season here they seem v busy for the few hours they are open, then just about tick over in the winter. If I don't make enough through the season I am thinking kids parties may be a good way to go.

My main concern at this stage is employing people, I know nothing about that and find it v daunting.

Get to see the books over the next couple of days

 

[GlenCB]

you dont fancy taking on this then?

A Hearty Breakfast

 

[matt seymour]

you dont fancy taking on this then?

A Hearty Breakfast

Jesus Christ!

I love nothing more than a good old fry up to get me going in the morning believe me, but even I wouldn't have the stomach for that!

I think the success or failure of a cafe depends almost entirely on location and what other food outlets are situated nearby. Without knowing anything at all about the location of this cafe I wouldn't want to comment other than to say it doesn't exactly sound like a big money spinner from what others in the know are saying here.

 

[MrsPWN]

Blimey, I love a good breckie but think the black pud would be a problem

 

[BIZ-MOBILE]

i'm definately not one for black pud either!