Music

[mmga]

You might pay £10 for a Radiohead album, but most people wouldn't, which is by artists relying on services like Apple or Amazon. The money for albums isn't there, its already spent with Apple.

So if we agree musical talent isn't important, but songwriting is, then we have the issue that many/most artists don't write their own songs. And again I can hire a song writer fairly cheaply.

In fact, I could hire a songwriter, some decent singers/musicians, and some models to front the band and need no musical talent at all. In fact, it's been done several times.

In answer to your question, I listen to music that has great marketing, because that's the music that gets played/sold.

Forget Radiohead. The point is that people would still pay £10 for an album by their favourite artist if that was the only way to hear it.

I can't think of one artist that I have discovered through marketing. For me it is word of mouth. A friend says 'check out X'. I suppose a YT recommendation is marketing. But irrespective of how great the marketing is to draw my attention is, I'm only going to listen to them if I like their music.

 

[mmga]

How is that different from youtube?

YT doesn't guarantee that your music is heard. Upload a song and see what happens. You still have to do the work of drawing attention to your song on YT.

 

[fisicx]

An app that guarantees that your music gets heard and will succeed on its merits.

No you can’t guarantee the music will get heard. People stream the music genre they like. If you create obscure Mongolian throat singing the chances I will hear it are zero.

 

[mmga]

No, we just understand business. This isn’t a tech or even a music thread. It’s about the viability of your business idea.

To work as you want you need a huge number of songs on the server and a huge number of people downloading the app. Both of these need cash. Lots of it. If you don’t have investment it’s just not ever going to happen.

It will not be me building this app or the business. We are going off on tangents. In this thread I wanted to establish that their is a big problem for musicians getting their music heard. Once that is accepted then I will outline my solution. The business stuff is your concern not mine. That is not my domain. You can take the idea or leave it.

 

[fisicx]

YT doesn't guarantee that your music is heard. Upload a song and see what happens. You still have to do the work of drawing attention to your song on YT.

It would be the same with your app.

Suppose 1000 new tunes are uploaded every hour. The chance I would hear a fraction of these is tiny. And if I’m at work it would be on in the background so I’m unlikely to take notice of who sung anything and even more unlikely to tell my friends.

As to paying a tenner to hear the latest album from someone - I’ve got Apple Music. The new albums are always available. They aren’t going to stop streaming on all channels and just use your app.

 

[NickGrogan]

YT doesn't guarantee that your music is heard. Upload a song and see what happens. You still have to do the work of drawing attention to your song on YT.

You can pay youtube to promote your song, it will get played if you spend the money. There are other ways/services to promote.

How will your app guarantee people will listen?

 

[mmga]

No you can’t guarantee the music will get heard. People stream the music genre they like. If you create obscure Mongolian throat singing the chances I will hear it are zero.

I think I can. That is what I have designed.

 

[NickGrogan]

OK, lets say we accept that a lot of musicians have trouble getting their music heard. For whatever reason.

Whats next?

I think I can. That is what I have designed.

How?

 

[fisicx]

It will not be me building this app or the business. We are going off on tangents. In this thread I wanted to establish that their is a big problem for musicians getting their music heard. Once that is accepted then I will outline my solution. The business stuff is your concern not mine. That is not my domain. You can take the idea or leave it.

You need to ask on music forums. Everyone here seems to disagree with your assumption that music can’t be heard. There are loads of places to hear new music.

This is a business forum. The purpose is to discuss business ideas. I’m not sure you have a viable business.

 

[mmga]

It would be the same with your app.

Suppose 1000 new tunes are uploaded every hour. The chance I would hear a fraction of these is tiny. And if I’m at work it would be on in the background so I’m unlikely to take notice of who sung anything and even more unlikely to tell my friends.

As to paying a tenner to hear the latest album from someone - I’ve got Apple Music. The new albums are always available. They aren’t going to stop streaming on all channels and just use your app.

With all due respect...I haven't outlined the design of the app yet, so how do you know? From the start of the discussion you have continued to make a lot of assumptions without first getting the information. Can we slow it down? If you have an objection then ask the question to see if there is an answer. Maybe don't just presume that there is no answer.

 

[fisicx]

I think I can. That is what I have designed.

Then show us what you have designed. Nothing you have said suggests it’s any different to any other streaming app.

 

[mmga]

OK, lets say we accept that a lot of musicians have trouble getting their music heard. For whatever reason.

Whats next?


How?

Well, what is next for me is the app. I'll go into the details of the app another time once the groundwork is laid. Clearly many of you do not believe there is a problem.

 

[mmga]

Then show us what you have designed. Nothing you have said suggests it’s any different to any other streaming app.

I am going to. I've already stated the purpose of this thread. Many of you do not know or believe that there is a problem. Once the problem is understood and accepted then we can explore the solution. Otherwise I'm going to receive a whole load of responses saying that my app is a solution to a problem that does not exist. One thing at a time.

 

[mmga]

You need to ask on music forums. Everyone here seems to disagree with your assumption that music can’t be heard. There are loads of places to hear new music.

This is a business forum. The purpose is to discuss business ideas. I’m not sure you have a viable business.

I have not said that music cannot be heard. I have said that it is very difficult to get your music heard. And, frankly, the level of analysis and focus here is not encouraging. There are many important questions that you could all be asking to explore the depth and scale of the problem that are not being asked. I don't want to be rude, but most of you seem more preoccupied on debunking me than on building understanding. As I said, this may not be the best place for me to do this.

 

[Shopclicks]

An app that guarantees that your music gets heard

That used to be called the radio.

The world has moved on.

 

[fisicx]

This is the right place to discuss business ideas. The supposed difficulty in musicians marketing their music isn’t a point for discussion. All that matters is how you plan to realise and monetise your app.

 

[mmga]

That used to be called the radio.

The world has moved on.

I don't even know what to say anymore. This is not a serious place.

 

[fisicx]

Let’s go right to basics:

Do you have a business plan?

Do you have a marketing plan?

Do you have the specifications for the app?

Do you have any money?

 

[mmga]

This is the right place to discuss business ideas. The supposed difficulty in musicians marketing their music isn’t a point for discussion. All that matters is how you plan to realise and monetise your app.

I think that some of you need to get serious. Maybe in a quiet moment read this thread back. This is not a place to come for serious people. This is no better than reddit. Thanks for your time.

 

[Shopclicks]

I don't even know what to say anymore. This is not a serious place.

If you have a solution, tell us what it is. Or at least a vague description of how it works. Nobody is interested in what ChatGPT thinks of the idea. People here could help you but you haven't given any clues on what help you need.

 

[Ozzy]

With all due respect...I haven't outlined the design of the app yet, so how do you know?

I can see many answers you have been given above are coming from the business perspective which you are interpreting as negative but you do need to look at this purely from the business angle otherwise it will burn through any money you have and before you know it, you'll be in debt and struggling (see how many other people find themselves going out of business for various reasons in the Legal forum here).

You mention the design of the app and how it will work and it appears this is the most important part of your argument, but the design of the app should be the very last thing you work on.

You need to business plan full costed out, with a competitor analysis against SoundCloud, Spotify, TikTok, YouTube and others, and a marketing strategy on how you will compete with these. You will need to reach both of your audiences, the musicians and also the listeners and convince them to use your service instead of YT etc, and raise the funds to do that convincing. This will all be part of your business plan.

Once you have done this, your marketing plan will inform you what the app design should be.

This isn't being negative, it is other members on here who have trodden this path trying to help you avoid losing hundreds of thousands of pounds and ending up in debt. None of this is saying your idea won't work, but it is saying it will be very expensive and very difficult so start with the business plan and financial modelling and then come to the app much much later.

 

[fisicx]

I think that some of you need to get serious. Maybe in a quiet moment read this thread back. This is not a place to come for serious people. This is no better than reddit. Thanks for your time.

We could say the same to you. You need to read the comments from those who know business. We don’t need to know anything about music to see the problems you will encounter.

 

[Mark T Jones]

I don't even know what to say anymore. This is not a serious place.

It's not a serious thread for sure.
Grabbing hold of smoke springs to mind.

Just some food for thought for you:

Imagine it happens.

Somebody develops your app.

It takes off - Musicians and music buyers love it.

Guess what will happen next?

 

[mmga]

I can see many answers you have been given above are coming from the business perspective which you are interpreting as negative but you do need to look at this purely from the business angle otherwise it will burn through any money you have and before you know it, you'll be in debt and struggling (see how many other people find themselves going out of business for various reasons in the Legal forum here).

You mention the design of the app and how it will work and it appears this is the most important part of your argument, but the design of the app should be the very last thing you work on.

You need to business plan full costed out, with a competitor analysis against SoundCloud, Spotify, TikTok, YouTube and others, and a marketing strategy on how you will compete with these. You will need to reach both of your audiences, the musicians and also the listeners and convince them to use your service instead of YT etc, and raise the funds to do that convincing. This will all be part of your business plan.

Once you have done this, your marketing plan will inform you what the app design should be.

This isn't being negative, it is other members on here who have trodden this path trying to help you avoid losing hundreds of thousands of pounds and ending up in debt. None of this is saying your idea won't work, but it is saying it will be very expensive and very difficult so start with the business plan and financial modelling and then come to the app much much later.

Think of it like this...

It is 1880 (or whatever year it was) and I am a chemist and you are a business man. I come to you with a drink that I call Coca Cola, and I say 'hey I have created this delicious drink, but I don't know what to do with it, so if you want it then it is yours'.

That is all this is. I have made clear from the start that I do not want to start a business. All I want to do is share a product and then YOU decide what you want to do with it.

Do you like the Coca-Cola or not? Do you think it will sell or not? Do people want this drink or not? These are questions for you, not me. I'm just giving you the Coca-Cola.

 

[fisicx]

But the coca-cola man had a product to sell. You don’t. Create the MVP and then you will have something to sell.

Right now all you have is an idea. Members here have assessed your idea and can’t see a business opportunity. As has been already said, the app itself isn’t important.

 

[Ozzy]

That is all this is. I have made clear from the start that I do not want to start a business. All I want to do is share a product and then YOU decide what you want to do with it.

Purely answering your question on face value as presented, then my answer is no.

As an investor I have no interest in picking up other peoples ideas and trying to make it work. I am interested in investing in other people to run their business based on a business plan and investment proposal they have presented to me.

Just to add to this, in relation to your product. I mean this with the utmost of respect, I'm afraid based on my own experience of exploring new music artists I do not believe the app is a viable business. It may look great, it may sound great, but I cannot see a viable business case for it.

 

[James]

Think of it like this...

It is 1880 (or whatever year it was) and I am a chemist and you are a business man. I come to you with a drink that I call Coca Cola, and I say 'hey I have created this delicious drink, but I don't know what to do with it, so if you want it then it is yours'.

That is all this is. I have made clear from the start that I do not want to start a business. All I want to do is share a product and then YOU decide what you want to do with it.

Do you like the Coca-Cola or not? Do you think it will sell or not? Do people want this drink or not? These are questions for you, not me. I'm just giving you the Coca-Cola.

Show us your coca cola? i can't see it just an outline for musicians frustrated that they haven't made it big

 

[NickGrogan]

Well, what is next for me is the app. I'll go into the details of the app another time once the groundwork is laid. Clearly many of you do not believe there is a problem.

I've said I accept there is a problem, you wanted someone to say that and I did.

Most musicians will never be discovered, including some very good ones.

So, whats the idea?

And please don't say an app. An App is not an idea, its a way of delivering an idea.

 

[fantheflames]

I appreciate your passion and creativity in wanting to help musicians get their music heard. I do think it's a great idea and it's clear you have put a lot of thought into this idea but I do think you need to do more market research into current apps.

As a musician myself, I know how competitive the music industry is and even the best platforms like Spotify, Apple Music, and YouTube Music can't promise that every artist will gain an audience. Bands and artists need to market themselves to be heard. Success in music often depends on various factors, including marketing, networking, timing, etc...

Plus competing with the likes of Spotify would require many resources and deep market understanding to position, market, and convince users to switch from or use your app alongside those apps.

You mentioned that your app would guarantees music will get heard and succeed for every musician. While it's fantastic to have confidence in your product, it's crucial to understand that no platform can guarantee success. How specifically would this work?

As others in the forum have pointed out, having a detailed business plan can help you understand the market better and identify potential challenges and opportunities. I think you've made a great start though!

Some of the feedback might seem a bit harsh, but it's incredibly valuable as it's an opportunity to refine your idea, address potential flaws, and strengthen your proposal. I think you're better off focusing on a genre of music or music events where there's more viability to break into those markets.

Best of luck with you venture!

 

[mmga]

Purely answering your question on face value as presented, then my answer is no.

As an investor I have no interest in picking up other peoples ideas and trying to make it work. I am interested in investing in other people to run their business based on a business plan and investment proposal they have presented to me.

Just to add to this, in relation to your product. I mean this with the utmost of respect, I'm afraid based on my own experience of exploring new music artists I do not believe the app is a viable business. It may look great, it may sound great, but I cannot see a viable business case for it.

But I haven't even explained the app yet!

 

[Shopclicks]

That is all this is. I have made clear from the start that I do not want to start a business. All I want to do is share a product and then YOU decide what you want to do with it.

Do you have any questions that the people on this forum might be able to help you with? Do you need help with explaining what the app does? Can you see any issues with the app that don't have a solution yet? People here will try to help if they have something to work with.

 

[fisicx]

But I haven't even explained the app yet!

The app doesn’t matter! It’s secondary to a business plan.

You are walking into a venue and saying how great your music and how it’s going to pull in a huge crowd and make loads of money. But you haven’t actually got a band. Or written any music.

 

[mmga]

Th

I appreciate your passion and creativity in wanting to help musicians get their music heard. I do think it's a great idea and it's clear you have put a lot of thought into this idea but I do think you need to do more market research into current apps.

As a musician myself, I know how competitive the music industry is and even the best platforms like Spotify, Apple Music, and YouTube Music can't promise that every artist will gain an audience. Bands and artists need to market themselves to be heard. Success in music often depends on various factors, including marketing, networking, timing, etc...

Plus competing with the likes of Spotify would require many resources and deep market understanding to position, market, and convince users to switch from or use your app alongside those apps.

You mentioned that your app would guarantees music will get heard and succeed for every musician. While it's fantastic to have confidence in your product, it's crucial to understand that no platform can guarantee success. How specifically would this work?

As others in the forum have pointed out, having a detailed business plan can help you understand the market better and identify potential challenges and opportunities. I think you've made a great start though!

Some of the feedback might seem a bit harsh, but it's incredibly valuable as it's an opportunity to refine your idea, address potential flaws, and strengthen your proposal. I think you're better off focusing on a genre of music or music events where there's more viability to break into those markets.

Best of luck with you venture!

This is a valuable response, and you should stick around. I have to correct one thing... I said that the app will guarantee that you are heard, not that you will succeed. Success will be on merit alone. But thank you for validating that the problem outlined is real. I can be harsh too... the feedback I've received here is not harsh, it is lazy. That is all. And that is me being polite. Your response, however, is relevant, of substance, and thoughtful. So thank you.

 

[mmga]

The app doesn’t matter! It’s secondary to a business plan.

We see the world very differently. I seek to solve a problem and then concern myself with the execution. You want to make money so you want to know what you can execute and then find an idea that fits. Neither approach is better. Both are needed. You are pragmatic. I am visionary. I solve a problem and then I figure out the execution. In this case the execution is to give the idea away. This makes no sense to you because you want to make money. So why would you want to put all of that time and effort into solving a problem without a plan in place to execute it? You're just going to have to accept that there is more than one way of achieving a goal.

 

[mmga]

I've said I accept there is a problem, you wanted someone to say that and I did.

Most musicians will never be discovered, including some very good ones.

So, whats the idea?

And please don't say an app. An App is not an idea, its a way of delivering an idea.

I will get to it. I will start a new thread where that can be the sole focus when I am finished here.

 

[Ozzy]

But I haven't even explained the app yet!

In my first post on this thread, I explained why the app is not the most important thing. You perhaps do not realise this but giving the business advice (after all this is a business forum) is trying to help you and trying to reduce your risk of becoming bankrupt.

If you want someone to take this idea on then whoever you speak to will need to know what is the business case for it. That is your job to build that business case.
Not unless you stumble upon a very rich billionaire who is looking for something to donate money to, but they are very rare and unlikely.

Speaking from an investor perspective, I really don't care what the app does. All I care about is will it make money, how will it make money, and then how long before I get my return back plus a nice juicy profit on top. I will be looking at the visionary to document and explain all that to me.

Honestly, the people replying are trying to help you approach it as a business because this is a business forum. If that is not what you are looking for you may find on some music forums different responses but I'd warn that could be just an echo chamber perhaps missing the important business case.

 

[mmga]

Purely answering your question on face value as presented, then my answer is no.

As an investor I have no interest in picking up other peoples ideas and trying to make it work. I am interested in investing in other people to run their business based on a business plan and investment proposal they have presented to me.

Just to add to this, in relation to your product. I mean this with the utmost of respect, I'm afraid based on my own experience of exploring new music artists I do not believe the app is a viable business. It may look great, it may sound great, but I cannot see a viable business case for it.

So, in an alternate timeline, Steve Jobs comes to you and says...

'here is something I call an iPhone, I'm just an inventor, I don't know what to do with it, here, you take it'

You ask him if he has a business plan. He says no, and so you reject me. This is your mindset? This seems like the perfect recipe for the most mediocre life possible with a trail of missed opportunities littered behind you because... what? Someone's great work didn't include a financial forecast?

This is nuts! You can't go through life like that. You have to at least be open and curious. What if my app turns out to be a huge billion dollar company? Are you really going to be comfortable with your attitude on the basis that my genius world changing app didn't come with a business plan??

If you want to know the difference between a forum that represents big business rather than small business then it is THIS.

 

[mmga]

In my first post on this thread, I explained why the app is not the most important thing. You perhaps do not realise this but giving the business advice (after all this is a business forum) is trying to help you and trying to reduce your risk of becoming bankrupt.

If you want someone to take this idea on then whoever you speak to will need to know what is the business case for it. That is your job to build that business case.
Not unless you stumble upon a very rich billionaire who is looking for something to donate money to, but they are very rare and unlikely.

Speaking from an investor perspective, I really don't care what the app does. All I care about is will it make money, how will it make money, and then how long before I get my return back plus a nice juicy profit on top. I will be looking at the visionary to document and explain all that to me.

Honestly, the people replying are trying to help you approach it as a business because this is a business forum. If that is not what you are looking for you may find on some music forums different responses but I'd warn that could be just an echo chamber perhaps missing the important business case.

Sorry man. I find your mindset bizarre and self defeating. You could have put all of this same effort into just being curious and asking questions to discover if there is anything in this worth your time. Your life. Your choice. I just don't see how this mindset can lead anywhere good.

 

[Shopclicks]

This is nuts! You can't go through life like that. You have to at least be open and curious. What if my app turns out to be a huge billion dollar company? Are you really going to be comfortable with your attitude on the basis that my genius world changing app didn't come with a business plan??

I agree with you on this. You don't need a business plan, you need to validate a concept. If you want to propose a business plan as part of the idea you're going to hand over, all well and good. But at this stage a business plan is pointless.

So, let's see if there is anything to build a business plan around.

 

[Ozzy]

here is something I call an iPhone, I'm just an inventor, I don't know what to do with it, here, you take it

Your recollection of Steve Jobs is incorrect. He did have a [business] plan and a clear direction on how to profit from the iPhone before it was built. He'd already proven the concept on much of it too.

You ask him if he has a business plan. He says no, and so you reject me. This is your mindset?

Yes, it is but as above he did actually have a plan on how it would make money and how he was going to market it.

What if my app turns out to be a huge billion dollar company? Are you really going to be comfortable with your attitude on the basis that my genius world changing app didn't come with a business plan??

Then so be it. I'm fine with this. You win some, you lose some. I take a low-risk approach to investments. Ideas are worth two a penny, and if an investor were to put money into every idea that presented itself from a passionate creator, they'd have no money left.

you need to validate a concept

Is that not part of the business plan that covers the market research done?