Monthly Website Costs

MarkSS

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May 14, 2021
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Hi Folks.
I just wanted to see if you feel a monthly cost of £104 is reasonable for what a company offers me. They are near to complete with an online store. I asked for a breakdown of what’s included. They are not fast at responding which concerns me too. Can be days before I get a reply. I have an alternative site nearly ready via shopify. Any advice appreciated.
  1. All future minor changes to the website design and functionality
  2. All bugfixes and technical support for the website.
  3. All security updates for the website.
  4. Private server hosting – a virtual private server in our datacentre dedicated to your website.
  5. Server side maintenance and security updates.
  6. Email hosting for your chosen emails.
  7. Access to our development team, design team and legal team for all matters around the website.
  8. Dedicated account manager working on your behalf with all the teams above (myself).
  9. Access to our partners for SEO, SMO, PPC, content marketing and off-site marketing at discounted rates should you require them.
 

ORDERED WEB

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Jun 30, 2009
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The devil is in the detail

I see this as £50 for hosting, £50 for routine maintenance

What gauruntees are they offering?

What chage documentation are they keeping and sharing?

What is driving decisions? A look at problems hilighted by analytics? A quick server scan? Or looking up what you have, and checking exactly what needs updating. (It's quite a task keeping a server and website 100% patched and up to date, and it's super easy to miss things)

Detail: what is 'minor', what happens when things go wrong (hack / server outage / incompatibility of an upgrade)

This sort of relationship works best with good honest fluid communication and clearly defined boundaries. It looks a little bit wooley to me.

Example: What hapens if you outgrow the VPS...

What happens if you want to use another developer to work on something new?

What happens when you cut ties and want to migrate to your own server?
 
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gpietersz

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    It mostly depends on the value of 2 and 3, which in turn depends on how much work your site will take to keep updated, which depends on things like how much of the code is custom and how complex it is and what platform its based on.

    5 to 9 are lost cost items for most people, so is 4 unless your site is big and busy.

    Everything @ORDERED WEB says, especially the last two, which might well be answered in any contract you signed with them. Ideally you hold copyright to work specifically done for you, and you hace access to code, data, and backups.
     
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    fisicx

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    If it’s a Wordpress site 2 and 3 are automated. 5 and 6 should be part of your hosting package. All the rest seems to be paid for services.

    It really all depends on how hands on you want to be. £104 could wipe out your monthly profit.

    I built a site for a client a little while back, we did a couple of hours training and they now do most things themselves. Hardly takes any effort, probably less than an hour a week.
     
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    gpietersz

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    I see this as £50 for hosting,

    That is a lot for hosting. You can get a dedicated server for that or a VPS capable of handling millions of daily visitors.

    If it’s a Wordpress site 2 and 3 are automated.

    If wordpress and plugins and themes that are maintained (and if set up to be automated). Its never the underlying platform thats the maintanance problem though, its the custom stuff (if any).

    You can also automated OS updates. Some offering managed services is most likelyto either use OSes own facilities script updates in a case like thi (so they run a script and all the VPSs update).

    I think its much better to host it separately so you have control.
     
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    MarkSS

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    If it’s a Wordpress site 2 and 3 are automated. 5 and 6 should be part of your hosting package. All the rest seems to be paid for services.

    It really all depends on how hands on you want to be. £104 could wipe out your monthly profit.

    I built a site for a client a little while back, we did a couple of hours training and they now do most things themselves. Hardly takes any effort, probably less than an hour a week.
    Thanks everyone some very good points and Fisicx that’s interesting about profit because it could wipe out profit. I know you are not a fan of Shopify can I ask what it is you don’t like about them? I have a shopify site nearly completed under their free trial. I did this to compare with this other website developer. I value all your advice guys.
     
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    MarkSS

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    That is a lot for hosting. You can get a dedicated server for that or a VPS capable of handling millions of daily visitors.



    If wordpress and plugins and themes that are maintained (and if set up to be automated). Its never the underlying platform thats the maintanance problem though, its the custom stuff (if any).

    You can also automated OS updates. Some offering managed services is most likelyto either use OSes own facilities script updates in a case like thi (so they run a script and all the VPSs update).

    I think its much better to host it separately so you have control.
    Yes that’s what I was thinking is it best to use a seperate host. What’s your views on shopify?
     
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    fisicx

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    Thanks everyone some very good points and Fisicx that’s interesting about profit because it could wipe out profit. I know you are not a fan of Shopify can I ask what it is you don’t like about them? I have a shopify site nearly completed under their free trial. I did this to compare with this other website developer. I value all your advice guys.
    Shopify works really well for some, especially those who use SM for marketing. But as your business grows you will end up paying more and more for functionality that comes free with a standalone e-commerce platforms. And some things you can set up on your own site are just not available on Shopify.
     
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    gpietersz

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    I see now what you mean now. Do you have a website for your business I could look at?

    If you mean me, its in my signature. I am not in ecomemrce - some of my clients are.

    Yes that’s what I was thinking is it best to use a seperate host. What’s your views on shopify?

    What @fisicx said, and I would add that these sorts of services are always structured to try and get you to pay more than you expect at the start.
     
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    antropy

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    Hi Folks.
    I just wanted to see if you feel a monthly cost of £104 is reasonable for what a company offers me. They are near to complete with an online store. I asked for a breakdown of what’s included. They are not fast at responding which concerns me too. Can be days before I get a reply. I have an alternative site nearly ready via shopify. Any advice appreciated.
    1. All future minor changes to the website design and functionality
    2. All bugfixes and technical support for the website.
    3. All security updates for the website.
    4. Private server hosting – a virtual private server in our datacentre dedicated to your website.
    5. Server side maintenance and security updates.
    6. Email hosting for your chosen emails.
    7. Access to our development team, design team and legal team for all matters around the website.
    8. Dedicated account manager working on your behalf with all the teams above (myself).
    9. Access to our partners for SEO, SMO, PPC, content marketing and off-site marketing at discounted rates should you require them.
    All that for £104 means they can only be an Indian outsourced company. Avoid.

    Paul.
     
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    makeusvisible

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    Hi Folks.
    I just wanted to see if you feel a monthly cost of £104 is reasonable for what a company offers me. They are near to complete with an online store. I asked for a breakdown of what’s included. They are not fast at responding which concerns me too. Can be days before I get a reply. I have an alternative site nearly ready via shopify. Any advice appreciated.
    1. All future minor changes to the website design and functionality
    2. All bugfixes and technical support for the website.
    3. All security updates for the website.
    4. Private server hosting – a virtual private server in our datacentre dedicated to your website.
    5. Server side maintenance and security updates.
    6. Email hosting for your chosen emails.
    7. Access to our development team, design team and legal team for all matters around the website.
    8. Dedicated account manager working on your behalf with all the teams above (myself).
    9. Access to our partners for SEO, SMO, PPC, content marketing and off-site marketing at discounted rates should you require them.

    That is a phenomenal price. And simply put, it wouldn't be possible for someone to fulfil that contract.

    1. "All" future updates. This is open ended. Especially functionality. You might ask for a functionality change that seems minor, but takes a developer 8 hours to implement.

    2. If they built you a site I would expect bug fixes to be within the scope of the original build.

    3. As per item 2.

    4. A VPS for this price, isn't going to be a very good one, and is not going to offer you anything a mid range VPS would offer.

    5. You would expect anything server-side to be handled by the host

    7. This point is incredible. A developer or a good developer would expect to be earning £50 per hour. A designer similar, and a legal person probably double. Unless by 'Access' they mean that they will let you pay them.

    8. As per 7.

    If something sounds too good to be true. It is.

    Your web hosting and web development is not something where price should be the main consideration. Instead of asking about price, it would be better to dig into their portfolio, obtain references and see the standard of their work.

    If they are bad developers, with a bad work ethic, poor time management and awful design skills and a slow server, then surely no matter how cheap it is....it's not worth it.
     
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    MarkSS

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    May 14, 2021
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    That is a phenomenal price. And simply put, it wouldn't be possible for someone to fulfil that contract.

    1. "All" future updates. This is open ended. Especially functionality. You might ask for a functionality change that seems minor, but takes a developer 8 hours to implement.

    2. If they built you a site I would expect bug fixes to be within the scope of the original build.

    3. As per item 2.

    4. A VPS for this price, isn't going to be a very good one, and is not going to offer you anything a mid range VPS would offer.

    5. You would expect anything server-side to be handled by the host

    7. This point is incredible. A developer or a good developer would expect to be earning £50 per hour. A designer similar, and a legal person probably double. Unless by 'Access' they mean that they will let you pay them.

    8. As per 7.

    If something sounds too good to be true. It is.

    Your web hosting and web development is not something where price should be the main consideration. Instead of asking about price, it would be better to dig into their portfolio, obtain references and see the standard of their work.

    If they are bad developers, with a bad work ethic, poor time management and awful design skills and a slow server, then surely no matter how cheap it is....it's not worth it.
    Thank you for your very good points. I have actually closed my account there. Another aspect I have found with Shopify is their model is designed so you need to buy add on apps for additional functions such as jewellery products where the customer has their names added for personalisation. The app for this is £50 so I am looking at woo commerce as recommended on here.
     
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    makeusvisible

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  • Jan 23, 2011
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    Thank you for your very good points. I have actually closed my account there. Another aspect I have found with Shopify is their model is designed so you need to buy add on apps for additional functions such as jewellery products where the customer has their names added for personalisation. The app for this is £50 so I am looking at woo commerce as recommended on here.

    WooCommerce is a great choice. :)
     
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    Solve My Problem

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    I have read this thread with interest, I ran a web hosting company back in the days when PHP was new. We were one of the first serious hosts to offer PHP as a proper service with a control panel for resellers etc.. since then I have managed some large ecommerce companies using everything from osCommerce, to Magento to now Shopify and WooCommerce.

    I currently manage Shopify and WooCommerce sites for clients who clear well over £1,000,000 a year as well as a few smaller sites that only sell a couple of thousand a month. My advantage is the background in not only coding but also the ecommerce side of things, I have a wide understanding of issues. The latest Shopify store I migrated didn't loose any Google rankings and has eliminated 99% of management and customer frustrations (can't please everyone all of the time)

    I would disagree with several comments above, sorry if this ends up a long message :)

    Shopify
    Shopify is a fantastic platform with some caveats, some features are restrictive and cannot be overridden. However they are working on several new features that are due to be rolled out this week which will allow some of these restrictions to be lifted.

    It's secure, when a theme needs updating, you don't have to do it instantly, it can wait a little while, unlike Wordpress where if you don't update you can be hacked. This is the benefit of a SaaS.

    The downsides are restrictive checkout (although this is one of the changes coming), no support for things like quantity breaks (the apps are a fudge), theme updates are a manual process which depending on the customisations can be a headache (again new features should remove some of the pain of customisations). The other frustration I find is the lack of mixing of discount types.

    It's all workable but is a pain, however it just works, the interface is admin friendly, customers love it, it increases conversions if built currently and it's affordable.

    The cost of apps is a potential issue except that 90% of the time most are not needed if using a decent theme with a decent developer. I recently migrated a highly customised Woocommerce store to Shopify, we didn't use one paid plugin. I utilised the theme and custom coded everything else. It didn't cost the client anymore as I had costed it. Their overall costs of management have halved now.

    Not all clients are suited, usually due to initial budgets and potential size.

    I see so many people who have setup a Shopify shop or paid someone on fivver and it's terrible, it won't convert and either looks spammy or just thrown together.

    All I would say is if you are ready to switch is be aware of the new updates to the themes Online Store 2, it's going to be a major overhaul for Themes and apps and Themes have to be upgraded by the end of the year.

    Woo/Wordpress
    A brilliant platform and very flexible but one that isn't maintained is a website waiting to be hacked. Quite often updates get left and by the time everything needs updating you end up with a crashed website.

    We have had two in the last two months that needed a full rebuild due to this.

    It has flexibility but often due to the backend being intimidating clients are scared to touch anything.

    Automated updates are fine until you have some custom work or something goes wrong, doing these by hand doesn't take long and allows someone to physically run through the site to make sure features function correctly.

    This platform suits a lot of clients but if not managed correctly will do more hard then good.

    OP
    The bit that jumps out is if £100 a month could use up your profit then you 100% don't need a VPS. ecommerce is not cheap, in the same way running a physical shop isn't cheap.

    1. All future minor changes to the website design and functionality
      What does this even mean, minor changes could be anything from a phone number to a text change. Minor is fairly loose
    2. All bugfixes and technical support for the website.
      Most sites don't need bug fixes, they need updates.
    3. All security updates for the website.
      So that's an update of Wordpress which is usually a click of a button
    4. Private server hosting – a virtual private server in our datacentre dedicated to your website.
      VPS servers are often billed as the be all and end all, most of the time with cheap hosts they are not setup very well and are not true VPS's
    5. Server side maintenance and security updates.
      This would be provided by the hosting company anyway, they don't want hacked servers
    6. Email hosting for your chosen emails.
      Office365 is one of the best email services if you don't want your emails being flagged as spam, if they are any good they will be providing this, if not it's usually locally hosted emails and should be avoided
    7. Access to our development team, design team and legal team for all matters around the website.
      Several days to reply isn't what you need/want with ecom
    8. Dedicated account manager working on your behalf with all the teams above (myself).
    9. Access to our partners for SEO, SMO, PPC, content marketing and off-site marketing at discounted rates should you require them.
      Worthless
    It all sounds great but I suspect you are paying over the odds, a decent hosting package with less fluff and a direct support contract that is specific is better suited. The above doesn't really offer you anything, £100 for that is a lot of money in my opinion.

    Ok sorry for the long message and dumping my opinion on you.

    I think we all agree that you are probably paying too much :)

    Good luck
    Darren
     
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    fisicx

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    Great post @Solve My Problem

    I agree that Shopify can work really well but as you say needs a developer who knows how.

    Same with woo. Out the box it’s not very good, it needs work to get it running properly.

    I disagree with comment about updating Wordpress, a properly configured site rarely gets hacked. Updates can be automated but if done right you shouldn’t even need many plugins.
     
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    antropy

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    gpietersz

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    @Solve My Problem very good summary, but a few things to add.

    1. We do not know what the platform is, or whether there is a lot of custom code, so we cannot tell how much work security updates and technical support will be. I certainly have clients who average a lot more than that just for updates and fixes. Of course its very likely something like woocommerce with plugins and theming, but it may be something more custom or customised.
    2. VPS hosting can be very good value for money and most small businesses can get great performance from a good VPS. I have clients running quite complex and busy services (by SME standards) on VPSs in the tens of dollars a month range, and simple small business sites running very well on $5/month VPSs.
    3. I have had no problems with web host provided email services, and very few with running my own mail server. The only deliverability problems I have ever had were to hotmail addresses (oddly, never to people using Office365 ones).


    a decent hosting package with less fluff and a direct support contract that is specific is better suited

    Yes, this feels like a developer taking advantage of the OP's lack of technical knowledge tp sell them fluff rather than substance.
     
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    MarkSS

    Free Member
    May 14, 2021
    64
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    I have read this thread with interest, I ran a web hosting company back in the days when PHP was new. We were one of the first serious hosts to offer PHP as a proper service with a control panel for resellers etc.. since then I have managed some large ecommerce companies using everything from osCommerce, to Magento to now Shopify and WooCommerce.

    I currently manage Shopify and WooCommerce sites for clients who clear well over £1,000,000 a year as well as a few smaller sites that only sell a couple of thousand a month. My advantage is the background in not only coding but also the ecommerce side of things, I have a wide understanding of issues. The latest Shopify store I migrated didn't loose any Google rankings and has eliminated 99% of management and customer frustrations (can't please everyone all of the time)

    I would disagree with several comments above, sorry if this ends up a long message :)

    Shopify
    Shopify is a fantastic platform with some caveats, some features are restrictive and cannot be overridden. However they are working on several new features that are due to be rolled out this week which will allow some of these restrictions to be lifted.

    It's secure, when a theme needs updating, you don't have to do it instantly, it can wait a little while, unlike Wordpress where if you don't update you can be hacked. This is the benefit of a SaaS.

    The downsides are restrictive checkout (although this is one of the changes coming), no support for things like quantity breaks (the apps are a fudge), theme updates are a manual process which depending on the customisations can be a headache (again new features should remove some of the pain of customisations). The other frustration I find is the lack of mixing of discount types.

    It's all workable but is a pain, however it just works, the interface is admin friendly, customers love it, it increases conversions if built currently and it's affordable.

    The cost of apps is a potential issue except that 90% of the time most are not needed if using a decent theme with a decent developer. I recently migrated a highly customised Woocommerce store to Shopify, we didn't use one paid plugin. I utilised the theme and custom coded everything else. It didn't cost the client anymore as I had costed it. Their overall costs of management have halved now.

    Not all clients are suited, usually due to initial budgets and potential size.

    I see so many people who have setup a Shopify shop or paid someone on fivver and it's terrible, it won't convert and either looks spammy or just thrown together.

    All I would say is if you are ready to switch is be aware of the new updates to the themes Online Store 2, it's going to be a major overhaul for Themes and apps and Themes have to be upgraded by the end of the year.

    Woo/Wordpress
    A brilliant platform and very flexible but one that isn't maintained is a website waiting to be hacked. Quite often updates get left and by the time everything needs updating you end up with a crashed website.

    We have had two in the last two months that needed a full rebuild due to this.

    It has flexibility but often due to the backend being intimidating clients are scared to touch anything.

    Automated updates are fine until you have some custom work or something goes wrong, doing these by hand doesn't take long and allows someone to physically run through the site to make sure features function correctly.

    This platform suits a lot of clients but if not managed correctly will do more hard then good.

    OP
    The bit that jumps out is if £100 a month could use up your profit then you 100% don't need a VPS. ecommerce is not cheap, in the same way running a physical shop isn't cheap.

    1. All future minor changes to the website design and functionality
      What does this even mean, minor changes could be anything from a phone number to a text change. Minor is fairly loose
    2. All bugfixes and technical support for the website.
      Most sites don't need bug fixes, they need updates.
    3. All security updates for the website.
      So that's an update of Wordpress which is usually a click of a button
    4. Private server hosting – a virtual private server in our datacentre dedicated to your website.
      VPS servers are often billed as the be all and end all, most of the time with cheap hosts they are not setup very well and are not true VPS's
    5. Server side maintenance and security updates.
      This would be provided by the hosting company anyway, they don't want hacked servers
    6. Email hosting for your chosen emails.
      Office365 is one of the best email services if you don't want your emails being flagged as spam, if they are any good they will be providing this, if not it's usually locally hosted emails and should be avoided
    7. Access to our development team, design team and legal team for all matters around the website.
      Several days to reply isn't what you need/want with ecom
    8. Dedicated account manager working on your behalf with all the teams above (myself).
    9. Access to our partners for SEO, SMO, PPC, content marketing and off-site marketing at discounted rates should you require them.
      Worthless
    It all sounds great but I suspect you are paying over the odds, a decent hosting package with less fluff and a direct support contract that is specific is better suited. The above doesn't really offer you anything, £100 for that is a lot of money in my opinion.

    Ok sorry for the long message and dumping my opinion on you.

    I think we all agree that you are probably paying too much :)

    Good luck
    Darren
    Darren thank you for your reply and comments. Whilst it was long it was very informative too. I have closed my account with that company following advice here. I have another company from here now who advised WooCommerce and managed plan at £30 per month we install WooCommerce for you so it’s ready to use out of the box.
    The £30 a month seems reasonable ensuring a plugin is working or up to date. Ensuring the site is optimised and fast. Their WordPress plan is fully managed which covers the running of the store by ensuring any security patches are in place and the site is optimised and accessible. It also covers support with any technical queries relating to our WordPress Infrastructure. I am looking for a developer now to build the site.
     
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    fisicx

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    You can enable auto updates. So no need to pay for that.

    Woocommerce is already ready to use out the box. All you need to do is add products.

    You are paying £360/year for nothing.
     
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    fisicx

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    The £30 includes hosting I should add though
    That’s different. All you are paying for is hosting. Everything else is just marketing guff. It just means they run a script to automate everything and you have access to their knowledge base. Same as every other host.

    Are they a uk company? Are their servers in the uk?

    You said you need a developer. I could get you a woo site up and running in an hour. You upload the products and could be selling by teatime. Might not be exactly what you want but it would be earning money. You then have a play a get it configured to suit your customers (which often isn’t the same as what you want).
     
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    MarkSS

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    That’s different. All you are paying for is hosting. Everything else is just marketing guff. It just means they run a script to automate everything and you have access to their knowledge base. Same as every other host.

    Are they a uk company? Are their servers in the uk?

    You said you need a developer. I could get you a woo site up and running in an hour. You upload the products and could be selling by teatime. Might not be exactly what you want but it would be earning money. You then have a play a get it configured to suit your customers (which often isn’t the same as what you want).
    Yes it’s a company off here who contacted me through my posts on here. have you a email address?
     
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    fisicx

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    Dillon Lawrence Ltd

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    That’s different. All you are paying for is hosting. Everything else is just marketing guff. It just means they run a script to automate everything and you have access to their knowledge base. Same as every other host.

    Nonsense. It would be pointless ever opting for a managed service if so. What you are paying for is accountability and piece of mind for a revenue generating business.

    For our managed WordPress plan every update is done on a cloned staging site to ensure nothing breaks. The client then can access a developer should something break or go wrong with said update. It’s then pushed out. That includes custom code. That’s not even accounting for the other services as part of it we offer such as plugin setup, CDN setup, offsite backups etc. Also, specific WooCommerce support and help with adding products etc

    I hope you don’t just script your updates, if so I’d expect broken sites. You cannot just run an update.
     
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    Dillon Lawrence Ltd

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    You said you need a developer. I could get you a woo site up and running in an hour. You upload the products and could be selling by teatime. Might not be exactly what you want but it would be earning money. You then have a play a get it configured to suit your customers (which often isn’t the same as what you want).

    I think you mean it “could” earn money which I doubt. Nobody is going to buy from a site roughly knocked up in an hour if there’s other options.

    @MarkSS take the time to do it properly and build out a site that’s designed well and that is going to drive sales.
     
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    fisicx

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    I think you mean it “could” earn money which I doubt. Nobody is going to buy from a site roughly knocked up in an hour if there’s other options.
    Yes they do. Storefront theme with great images and descriptions and the right marketing and you will sell. You might sell more with a pretty theme and a bit of bling but it’s not going to make that much difference. If it did Amazon would invest in pretty. The reason they don’t is because of marketing.
     
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    Dillon Lawrence Ltd

    Free Member
    Oct 12, 2019
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    Yes they do. Storefront theme with great images and descriptions and the right marketing and you will sell. You might sell more with a pretty theme and a bit of bling but it’s not going to make that much difference. If it did Amazon would invest in pretty. The reason they don’t is because of marketing.

    It makes a lot of difference. Hence why even WooCommerce say the Storefront theme is nothing but a framework.
     
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    fisicx

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    Sep 12, 2006
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    MARMARLADE

    Free Member
    Jul 12, 2021
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    Hi Folks.
    They are not fast at responding which concerns me too.

    You're probably better finding someone else.

    Imagine that 2 months after opening your business your website goes offline, would you be happy with them providing the same response time when you're desperate?

    Sales are usually the fastest people to respond, as they want to give you as good an impression as possible to make the sale.

    Which ever company you choose, before you sign anything ask for a copy of the Service Level Agreement (SLA) and check very carefully what they say about support response times and down-time.

    I personally would go with nothing less than 24-hour live chat support for ecom.
     
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