Looking for Insights from Small Business Owners around using AI ...

[Bucko]

Hi everyone, I’m Mark, but you can call me Bucko!

I just found this site today as my frustration with LinkedIn has bubbled over ... does anyone else relate? It now just seems to be a place where people share their latest badges or politcal opinions - I promise to do neither ... I’m hoping, this form/network is more like a pub chat where you actually get to know and support each other.

By day, I run B-Hive.AI, helping small business owners get their own AI “team”, kind of like hiring a boardroom of executives, except their egos dont lock horns!!!. I may have left it a bit late to create a start-up (I really don't believe that) as I turned 60 a few months back! I have 35+ years in technology and for the last 20 or so I have been a coach and consultant (a good one - honestly!!!) helping individuals and teams be more Agile and adaptable.

My reason for joining is to garner feedback for our SaaS (software as a service) product which we are calling B-hive.AI (for now) so that we can Create the type of AI that small businesses want.

I look forward to some great conversations and hopefully good banter and if we are able to help and support each other along the way then thats a bonus!!!

 

[fisicx]

Welcome to the forum @Bucko

There have been a number of AI threads, two recent ones are:

What do you want to know about using AI in business?

Hi all, I’m currently writing a practical guide for business leaders on how to use AI effectively across key areas like marketing, customer service, operations, and internal communications — including a chapter on AI-powered video production (my main area of expertise). But rather than guess...

www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk

Ai Chat Bots wasting my time?!

I run a B2B manufacturing business.. All based online, they send us their job and we get it made. I keep getting enquiries from @gmail or @yahoo and they all look the same and sound the same. All are what look like genuine enquiries, and most have ugly Ai generated images as their 'artwork...

www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk

There seems to be a number of AI camps here on UKBF: one camp has fully embraced AI, one camp uses it a bit and one won't touch it with a barge pole.

I'm in the middle camp. I've used it a bit to help with some tricky coding but anything more than that it has proved less than useful. Much like many of those commenting on TheRegister - a good place to see how AI is regarded in the tech world.

 

[Mark T Jones]

Hi @Bucko

You definitely haven't left it too late to start a business

Do have any kind of plans re growing your business, or will it be you making a living and enjoying yourself?

My view on AI (for what it's worth) is that the term is over-used and abused to the point where it's off-putting. You really need to focus on relevant benefits and outcomes

 

[fisicx]

@Bucko there is a phrase oft used which is:

"Sell the Sizzle not the Sausage"

People don't want AI. They want better productivity, increased profits, lower costs, more leads, better marketing and so on.

AI is the tool you are employing to help with these. I don't care if you use AI or 500 low paid serfs, all I case about are the results.

"All-In-One AI Power for Digital Entrepreneurs" is about as horrible as it gets. I wouldn't even mention AI in your marketing. I'd certainly change from .ai to a .co.uk.

And finally, somebody recently said:

"I want AI to clean the house and go shopping so I can do the fun creative stuff"

 

[Bucko]

Hi @Bucko

You definitely haven't left it too late to start a business

Do have any kind of plans re growing your business, or will it be you making a living and enjoying yourself?

My view on AI (for what it's worth) is that the term is over-used and abused to the point where it's off-putting. You really need to focus on relevant benefits and outcomes

Thanks @Mark T Jones - that is a most insightful and considered response. One of the things my co-founder and I have discussed is whether to even put AI "out there"; however from an ethics and transparency point of view I feel that we should. But you are so right though about the term, which is a hangover from decades ago, intelligence isnt how we would describe it and would want to rename it. In the meantime we are looking to recreate it anew - not relying or mimicking Big Tech. Re growing teh business - it has become a necessity for me (us) as my pension provision is non-existent and still waitng for the ****** bull- market to get into full swing!!! Not holding my breath

 

[Bucko]

Thanks @fisicx (love the name!!!)
That is hugely useful. I'll take a peek at those in my downtime later.
Much like many subjects in our world today it is rather divisive and some people love it - others not; and a few like your good self poking on the periphery. Personally I see it as a potential force for good but not in its current form. Im sure you have heard much of the chatter out there about ethics, alignment, safety and so on ... we are honestly looking to create some better (and I think we are succeeding). At the risk of sounding negative, Big Tech have a lot to answer for and it is up to us the people to demand better and ask for more.

 

[Bucko]

@Bucko there is a phrase oft used which is:

"Sell the Sizzle not the Sausage"

People don't want AI. They want better productivity, increased profits, lower costs, more leads, better marketing and so on.

AI is the tool you are employing to help with these. I don't care if you use AI or 500 low paid serfs, all I case about are the results.

"All-In-One AI Power for Digital Entrepreneurs" is about as horrible as it gets. I wouldn't even mention AI in your marketing. I'd certainly change from .ai to a .co.uk.

And finally, somebody recently said:

"I want AI to clean the house and go shopping so I can do the fun creative stuff"

I couldn't agree more. Benefits over features right! Yes, this is why I created a survey to see what people would want to use it for. And thanks for taking a look at our (really poor) website - thats much appreciated as well as your forthright and candid viewpoint ... As i mentioned in an earlier response this is something we have tussled with and erred on the side of being "honest" or at the very least transparent (it says so in our values statements!!!)

 

[fantheflames]

Welcome @Bucko

I’m with the middle camp too. I use AI here and there (Kapwing is a handy one for quick video cuts) and for productivity bits, but the real value is always in the time saved. If a tool helps me claw back an hour to focus on clients or creativity, it’s worth a look. I definitely think focusing on the outcomes is easier for business owners to relate to than the technology itself. Most people don't really know what AI actually is.

 

[fisicx]

According to the adverts I keep seeing for copilot it can interpret my dreams. If that’s the best it can do it’s not really selling itself as a productivity tool.

 

[Paul Carmen]

I couldn't agree more. Benefits over features right! Yes, this is why I created a survey to see what people would want to use it for. And thanks for taking a look at our (really poor) website - thats much appreciated as well as your forthright and candid viewpoint ... As i mentioned in an earlier response this is something we have tussled with and erred on the side of being "honest" or at the very least transparent (it says so in our values statements!!!)

That's the issue right there, most people don't want to use Ai for anything. There seems to be a general tech misunderstanding that businesses want to try something Ai driven, complete a survey, tell Ai what they want to use it for etc. They don't.

Businesses want to use tools that improve or increase things; e.g. leads, sales, the speed and accuracy tasks are completed at, free time available etc. Basically to save time, drive ROI and profit.

Chat GPT has got some cut through, because it's good at writing copy without much training. The Ai results in search engines are a mixed bag, as the info can be wrong and is often too vague unless you go off to the links it sources data from and do some real research.

Virtually every other AI tool or Ai bolt on to platforms does not help. Copilot, most of what it does is not particularly helpful, and it requires significant human intervention (making using it time consuming). It's speech recognition for dictation is very good, some of the Ai data analysis in Excel is good too.

Google/MS Ads Ai makes support and building campaigns worse, a human with proper experience of the platform can get a campaign performing better quicker than Ai.

Ai Code generation and website building, this is often messy and needs significant human intervention to get working well. Again, this means that an experienced person can usually build something better without Ai.

Ai chatbots are sold as the nirvana for customer service, yet on every site or systems they regurgitate from a limited scrip, frustrating when they don't understand the issues, and end up connecting you to to a human.

Most SMEs are time limited, using complex multiple data sources and systems to run their business; e.g. marketing/CRMs, ecommerce, sales, fulfilment/shipping, bookkeeping/accounting...

Ai platforms are usually OK at using their own ecosystem or searching the web, but rubbish with external data or integrating with other systems. This requires time, money and humans to build processes and APIs, webhooks. These are human processes, based on understanding the business needs and setting goals/outcomes, many humans aren't good at this!

I've yet to come across any Ai systems that is capable of this type of scaled or complex automation, most Ai is very disappointing and narrow, the parameters and ability to train it are usually too narrow too. Large language models (LLMs) aren't really Ai, and the models are designed to deal with a set of predetermined paths/parameters.

Can you articulate how your Ai or processes will be different, what will they do for companies/individuals, what does the leaning curve look like etc, as most Ai isn't a game changer?

 

[Mark T Jones]

According to the adverts I keep seeing for copilot it can interpret my dreams. If that’s the best it can do it’s not really selling itself as a productivity tool.

I think it would report me to the mental health sector if it tried to interpret my dreams....

 

[Bucko]

Welcome @Bucko

I’m with the middle camp too. I use AI here and there (Kapwing is a handy one for quick video cuts) and for productivity bits, but the real value is always in the time saved. If a tool helps me claw back an hour to focus on clients or creativity, it’s worth a look. I definitely think focusing on the outcomes is easier for business owners to relate to than the technology itself. Most people don't really know what AI actually is.

absolutely spot on @fantheflames ... we really arent in teh business of selling the tech because as you so rightly say most people wont understand it (not even sure I do!!!! - well maybe more than most!!!)

 

[Bucko]

According to the adverts I keep seeing for copilot it can interpret my dreams. If that’s the best it can do it’s not really selling itself as a productivity tool.

I hate co-pilot with a passion - any time i've tried to use it I've gone backwards!!!!

 

[fisicx]

we really arent in teh business of selling the tech because as you so rightly say most people wont understand it

Which means not having a .ai tld.

 

[Bucko]

That's the issue right there, most people don't want to use Ai for anything. There seems to be a general tech misunderstanding that businesses want to try something Ai driven, complete a survey, tell Ai what they want to use it for etc. They don't.

Businesses want to use tools that improve or increase things; e.g. leads, sales, the speed and accuracy tasks are completed at, free time available etc. Basically to save time, drive ROI and profit.

Chat GPT has got some cut through, because it's good at writing copy without much training. The Ai results in search engines are a mixed bag, as the info can be wrong and is often too vague unless you go off to the links it sources data from and do some real research.

Virtually every other AI tool or Ai bolt on to platforms does not help. Copilot, most of what it does is not particularly helpful, and it requires significant human intervention (making using it time consuming). It's speech recognition for dictation is very good, some of the Ai data analysis in Excel is good too.

Google/MS Ads Ai makes support and building campaigns worse, a human with proper experience of the platform can get a campaign performing better quicker than Ai.

Ai Code generation and website building, this is often messy and needs significant human intervention to get working well. Again, this means that an experienced person can usually build something better without Ai.

Ai chatbots are sold as the nirvana for customer service, yet on every site or systems they regurgitate from a limited scrip, frustrating when they don't understand the issues, and end up connecting you to to a human.

Most SMEs are time limited, using complex multiple data sources and systems to run their business; e.g. marketing/CRMs, ecommerce, sales, fulfilment/shipping, bookkeeping/accounting...

Ai platforms are usually OK at using their own ecosystem or searching the web, but rubbish with external data or integrating with other systems. This requires time, money and humans to build processes and APIs, webhooks. These are human processes, based on understanding the business needs and setting goals/outcomes, many humans aren't good at this!

I've yet to come across any Ai systems that is capable of this type of scaled or complex automation, most Ai is very disappointing and narrow, the parameters and ability to train it are usually too narrow too. Large language models (LLMs) aren't really Ai, and the models are designed to deal with a set of predetermined paths/parameters.

Can you articulate how your Ai or processes will be different, what will they do for companies/individuals, what does the leaning curve look like etc, as most Ai isn't a game changer?

Firstly Thanks @Paul Carmen for your deeply considered reply, I really appreciate your honesty, it cuts through a lot of the hype and BS out there ..

On ‘most people don’t want AI’:
Spot on. Nobody wakes up saying ‘I need AI’. They want more sales, faster fulfilment, fewer headaches. I feel that too and while AI could be awesome tool - as someone said on here in another thread its the sizzle people want as opposed to the steak!!! We are about benefits over features ...
On ChatGPT having cut through but search AI being patchy:
Aye, ChatGPT does well at surface copy. For deeper research, I often find myself cross-checking anyway (hallucination and reliability being a big issue. I wonder ihow many others here have found the same?

On Copilot / Excel / dictation:
Agree on dictation genuinely useful - even with my weird scottish/irish/english accent!!!!. Excel’s AI sounds promising but TBH as in another comment I run far far away from MS stuff (nuff said there ...)

On Ads AI underperforming humans:
noted! (thanks)
On messy code gen / website builds:
My co-founder would disagree with that, him being the techy one. but it really depends on whose AI you use - he has configured his own ... The amount of code he has generated on his own is comparable with a small team – he has built a “no code agentic” solution that many people think is a pipe dream. We’ll let you all know when its proper ready as we are addressing other issues that big tech chooses not to (ethics in the training, overcoming biases, alignment with values, making it truly private safe and reliable) – sorry wasn’t trying to sell (wrists slapped)

On chatbots being underwhelming:
Yes the ‘nirvana’ hasn’t arrived. Most bots frustrate more than they help – to me using ChatGPT or other generative Ais is like deth by a thousand suggestions – its time consuming and overwhelming in that regard

On SMEs being time-limited, multi-system users:
That’s the real pinch point: juggling CRM, ecommerce, bookkeeping… none of the tools talk well together and our early cohort of users helped us identify that (especially recruitment consultants) . Integration eats time and thus margin.

On AI not handling complex automation:
I hear you and we relate, that’s why my co-founder (scott) had the vision of sharing these techno superpowers with small business to democratise access to said and level the playing field with larger competitors

On ‘how are you different?’ question:
This is exactly what I am focused on right now and without over-egging this particular pudding: I am personally responsible for implementing the APRES framework that I made mention of above. Most people don’t know but everything you type into Chat/Perplexity/Grok etc is swallowed whole by big tech and thus becomes their data. We are making ours private (run locally, so you keep your data for you). Reliability is a big issue out there and I wont bore you with why, we are doing different in that rather than utilising huge models, we are purposely training the knowledge base of each of the starting 15 agents for specificity as opposed to generalising (hence we are less about the G in the GPT form of LLMs) … again many of the LLMs out there are riddled with biases that impact our stand on ethics (i.e. we don’t use sweat shops or steal others IP to train our models – we have started recruiting partners to help deliver this specialised knowledge). I could go on Paul, but I wont …

I hope this has been as useful for you as it has for me. Feel free to reach out if you would more info …
Warm regards
M

 

[Bucko]

Which means not having a .ai tld.

yeah - I hear you - we have grappled with that and this is only a temp holding domain - Im a great believer in asking the customer - they will tell you, so we havent yet finalised the name. I'm reliably informed that this is a common thing in teh tech space wait until after beta testing to settle on a name - that way it keeps the competition on their toes ...

 

[Paul Carmen]

On ‘how are you different?’ question:
This is exactly what I am focused on right now and without over-egging this particular pudding: I am personally responsible for implementing the APRES framework that I made mention of above. Most people don’t know but everything you type into Chat/Perplexity/Grok etc is swallowed whole by big tech and thus becomes their data. We are making ours private (run locally, so you keep your data for you). Reliability is a big issue out there and I wont bore you with why, we are doing different in that rather than utilising huge models, we are purposely training the knowledge base of each of the starting 15 agents for specificity as opposed to generalising (hence we are less about the G in the GPT form of LLMs) … again many of the LLMs out there are riddled with biases that impact our stand on ethics (i.e. we don’t use sweat shops or steal others IP to train our models – we have started recruiting partners to help deliver this specialised knowledge). I could go on Paul, but I wont …

Your not identifying how you're different there, you're talking tech and jargon. No one cares about jargon at SMEs, they want solutions to their problems.

That's the tough part to do/get across. I'd not try any Ai based on that, the ethics side is good, but most people don't know about Ai ethics anyway...

 

[Bucko]

Your not identifying how you're different there, you're talking tech and jargon. No one cares about jargon at SMEs, they want solutions to their problems.

That's the tough part to do/get across. I'd not try any Ai based on that, the ethics side is good, but most people don't know about Ai ethics anyway...

fair shout - its something im passionate about and know that its hugely important to society at large - thats what get me out of bed in the morning. And apologies if my commentary didn't resonate, reading it back now I can see why. Let me get back to you once I have made a better job of that .

 

[fisicx]

...and know that its hugely important to society at large

Is it really? There are some areas where ML (not AI) has provided benefit. Medicine in particular and general analysis but a lot is detrimental.

The huge energy and resource consumption is a worry for many as are all the job losses.

And because AI has been jammed into everything I can no longer talk to anyone - I have to use bots for communication most of which are useless.

 

[Bucko]

Fair pushback. When I say it’s hugely important, I don’t mean ‘AI everywhere makes life better’ (God do I share your pain with bots - I dont even engage with most of them anymore "human please"). What I mean is that the safety and governance of these systems matters to society. Geoffrey Hinton (AIs very own Godfather) who helped pioneer deep learning left Google precisely to raise the alarm on risks like bias, misuse, and the extreme case of AGI going rogue. My focus is on guardrails: auditing, minimising bias, and making sure these tools serve people rather than replace them. (if you havent seen it already Hinton's interview with Stephen Bartlett was the "poke in teh eye I needed!!!) I tried to send link but "computer said no!"

 

[DontAsk]

Geoffrey Hinton (AIs very own Godfather) who helped pioneer deep learning left Google precisely to raise the alarm on risks like bias, misuse, and the extreme case of AGI going rogue.

AI cannot "go rogue" It is not intelligent.

AGI does not exist, and will not exist in my lifetime

 

[Bucko]

AI cannot "go rogue" It is not intelligent.

AGI does not exist, and will not exist in my lifetime

if you say so ...

 

[DontAsk]

if you say so ...

Not just me...

 

[Bucko]

Whether or not AGI ever shows up, maybe we can probably agree the systems we have today are causing harm. That’s where I keep my focus.

To be fair to you as well, big Tech have used the whole dystopian future of AI taking over the world as a deflection. Why are not we doing something instead about the REAL harms that AI is causing now - rather than deflecting onto saving us from the potential harms in the future. Olsen's Book "Supremacy" goes into this in some detail.

 

[ThatDevAaron]

Is it just me, or are Scott and Mark the same person? =O

For real, great website, looks like you provide a pretty great service, and as we're entering gen AI, it's most certainly the best time to create a start-up like yours.

I hope if god willing I make it near to your age, I'm still programming

This is certainly more, community-oriented compared to Linkedin, I think you'll like it <3

 

[Mark T Jones]

@Bucko I've read through 2 of your threads now, and I'm still extremely unclear on what your actual business model is and who you are targeting.

As Einstein (or was it Richard Branson?) Once said 'if you can't explain it simply, you dont understand it'. (Steven Bartlett may have also said it, he doesn't have a single original thought in his head).

So, in simple, concise laymen's terms, what are you offering, and why should a business owner be interested?

 

[Nathanto]

@Bucko I've read through 2 of your threads now, and I'm still extremely unclear on what your actual business model is

That makes two of us!

"An interface that works the way you think"?!?

An interface to or with what? Is your product basically an AI-assisted CRM?

 

[Bucko]

Is it just me, or are Scott and Mark the same person? =O

For real, great website, looks like you provide a pretty great service, and as we're entering gen AI, it's most certainly the best time to create a start-up like yours.

I hope if god willing I make it near to your age, I'm still programming

This is certainly more, community-oriented compared to Linkedin, I think you'll like it <3

thanks ... @ThatDevAaron - glad you like teh site - truth be told - I dont! I am waiting to get back the hosting from our UI guy so I can make wholesale changes to look/feel and of course th content!

If thats what you want at my ripe ole age then good on you Aaron. Its really not what I wished or planned. But its like teh ole adage goes - How do you make god laugh? Tell her your plans ...

Yep already loving it here - good people willing to help out. Great community which is what we are hoping to build around our product(s)

 

[Bucko]

@Bucko I've read through 2 of your threads now, and I'm still extremely unclear on what your actual business model is and who you are targeting.

As Einstein (or was it Richard Branson?) Once said 'if you can't explain it simply, you dont understand it'. (Steven Bartlett may have also said it, he doesn't have a single original thought in his head).

So, in simple, concise laymen's terms, what are you offering, and why should a business owner be interested?

Hey @Mark T Jones so its not just me re stephen bartlett!!!! I was beginning to think I was becoming a Victor Mildrew with all these "12 year old" experts popping up.

So thank you Mark I appreciate the insight but in fairness to myself I'm not even in a place to sell "it" (whatever it is) yet. At this time our focus in on teh tech, which over teh last few months has been steadily improving - but sooooo painfully slow (comparatively speaking) ... As i have said to my co-founder a number of times I wont be happy intil I have teh product in my hands and ive had a chance to play with it and demonstrate that it can do what is says on the ... the problem is that the tech can almost literally be anything and thats a big problem for someone like me who is charged with doing exactly what you are asking for Mark - WTF is it??? and why would I as a business owner buy it ... this why I have landed on this site.

 

[Bucko]

That makes two of us!

"An interface that works the way you think"?!?

An interface to or with what? Is your product basically an AI-assisted CRM?

You wont like this @Nathanto - but yeah partially! the idea is to provide a team of experts that in the first instance that helps you the business owner make sense of your complex, often messy digital world ... so marketing, HR etc. As I've said earlier - not a fan our website ATM but looking to change that - once I get my hands on teh code and hosting!!!!

Thanks for reaching out though - it is honestly much appreciated ...

 

[fisicx]

the idea is to provide a team of experts that in the first instance that helps you the business owner make sense of your complex, often messy digital world

Is it really complex and messy?

Most businesses manage just fine.

As an example, a small business has a GBP and maybe a simple website. They outsource accounting, payroll and HR. They contract someone to do marketing. All very simple and effective.

 

[Bucko]

@fisicx if you have money to do it (in all my time as a one man band I never had budget to pay teh fees that the marketing agencies wanted... and it depends on the business surely. Mine wasnt complicated for sure but I can tell you there are businesses out there that are that complicated ... but you are maybe right - most businesses manage just fine in which case they wont be our target becuase the value they would gain just wont be worth it

 

[fisicx]

but you are maybe right - most businesses manage just fine in which case they wont be our target becuase the value they would gain just wont be worth it

Then stop focusing on the tech and start doing market research. Identify your target customer and from there their pain points.

Provide solid processes that remove the complexity and you have the beginning of a business plan.

As an example, there are any number of threads on UKBF on HMRC, importing products and customs, selling on Amazon and so on.

If you have a sure fire process for your target business to assess and submit to HMRC and CH without paying for an accountant you will soon have a steady stream of custiomers.

 

[ThatDevAaron]

@Bucko if you want, hit me a PM with your whatsapp number, I got you pro-bono on some HTML & CSS, maybe even some backend

 

[ThatDevAaron]

@fisicx if you have money to do it (in all my time as a one man band I never had budget to pay teh fees that the marketing agencies wanted... and it depends on the business surely. Mine wasnt complicated for sure but I can tell you there are businesses out there that are that complicated ... but you are maybe right - most businesses manage just fine in which case they wont be our target becuase the value they would gain just wont be worth it

Personally, I throw about a tenner into Twitter ads every so often, and make sure to setup high quality SEO on my web-pages and ensure they are meeting top quality standards by using free tools such as Google's Search Console.

A marketing agency, no doubt will change your business for the better, provided you choose a good one, but by no means is something you actually need. I've found that having a free-option on-site for online businesses works just as well, although for AI, this could be quite costly to provide for free.