Looking For A Business To Buy

NiSiWi

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Jun 7, 2006
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Hello to the UK Business Forums network,

My name is Nic Windley and I’m an addict ........ well actually, I'm addicted to good businesses having spent most of my career working in a range of Hi-Tech businesses at both national and international scale where I held profit and loss responsibility across start-ups and public listed companies.

I’m 45 and looking to do it again, this time starting with an existing business and so I’m now looking to acquire a Hi-Tech business within 75miles of the Midlands and wondered if the network here might know of any such companies.



Wishing you all a great weekend ahead.

All the best,


Nic Windley

p.s. In case you're wondering what hi-tech might include, think digital, advanced services, software, web, electronics, hardware, telecoms, specialist materials, automation/robotics and similar businesses.



p.p.p.s please forgive any typos in this post ...... my hand's are sometimes faster than my eyes :)
 
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NiSiWi

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Unfortunately, you're right Mr D, more businesses may be forced to close or sell up in these challenging times. I'm looking for very specific things though, so I should be able to filter out the wrong businesses. Many thanks for your concern though. It's a very valid point.
 
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OK, point taken! Well, you've certainly chosen one funky time to buy! Every economic indicator is pointing South and all the lights are flashing red. At the same time, all the funny money getting printed is going into shares and not into the real economy.

As you say you know what you are doing, you will have everything in place and you might like to check out Clinton at http://ukbusinessbrokers.com/services/#buyers - he is bound to know someone with the right object. But be warned - there is a great deal of loose money looking for what you are looking for - but you probably know that already!

The 'knowledgebase' on his website is worth checking out BTW.
 
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NiSiWi

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Clinton and I are connected on LinkedIn although we've not yet had a conversation.

My preference is not to deal through brokers although many are being more realistic at present and I realise Clinton may be different.

I would prefer to broker a fair deal direct.
 
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Clinton

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    @The Byre , LOL. That line of "I prefer not to deal through brokers" is typical of the £1 Charlies, the ones who've been on a course to learn how to buy a business without using any of their own money. ;)

    Simply from the lines they use I can pretty much tell which course a "professional investor" went on! ;)

    Smart investors, the ones with real capital to invest, find brokers invaluable. The bottom feeders, the £1 Charlies, the ones looking to exploit business owners, are typically the ones who don't want to deal with business brokers because they realise they can't easily screw over a business owner who is being properly advised.

    And they've learnt this from the idiot "gurus" who've never actually dealt with any proper brokers themselves, and who've only ever dealt with the riff-raff brokers at the bottom end of the market (because they've never had any serious money to buy a decent business).

    My advice to anyone looking to sell their business: If you're dealing directly with any "professional investors" make sure you check their liquid funds first. And don't accept a letter from a finance company. Demand a letter from their accountant stating clearly the personal capital they have available to invest or demand a bank statement. Yes, it's fine to demand this. In fact, nowadays with all these £1 Charlies around, you must do this!

    Then require your "professional investor" to sign an agreement that no offer of theirs will contain less than 50% of new money, ie their personal equity outside of money they raise against the assets of your business or any seller financing you're providing.

    Many of these so called investors have no money to invest. Seriously!

    Also, check out their past acquisitions. A "professional investor" would have past acquisitions, right? Then check out their company on Companies House (I bet it was registered two days ago so has no published accounts!), check out the individuals concerned on everywhere from LinkedIn to Facebook. Do not trust them as far as you can throw them.

    One in a million may be a good guy, but it's up to you to do the DD on them.

    OK, point taken!
    You assumed someone was credible just because they called themselves professional? Where's that natural cynicism of yours that we've all come to love? ;)
     
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    NiSiWi

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    You know, I'm not surprised by your response Clinton and some of what you say will probably make a lot of sense to some sellers. Good luck to them and you. Even for me, you've answered a few niggling questions, so I'd like to thank you for that, it saved me time.
     
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    Clinton

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    You've only recently replied to a LinkedIn post of mine and asked to connect. You may not have seen the posts I've been making for years about you guys, so I've got a tip for you:

    Save even more time and read this page of mine. It'll teach you how to find target businesses without coming across as someone fresh out of a £1 Charlie Dealmakers course.

    And go watch this video by my good friend David Barnett. Listen to Carlos' story and you'll save yourself a lot of time because, as Carlos discovered, finding and doing a "100% leveraged" deal ain't as easy as the crook who sold you that course made it out to be.
     
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    NiSiWi

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    Your replies are littered with assumptions Clinton which are intentionally positioned to elicit a certain response.

    As for that page of yours and the video link, well, they are no different than the methods used by the so-called "gurus" and "lazy brokers" and the "£1 charlie dealmakers" you seem to be finger-pointing at to provide others with a reason to need an advisor to help them all, for want of a better description ....... to broker deals on the buy and sell-side which is where you make your money.

    That's a very clever strategy and I guess that makes you a kind of anti-broker?

    There is no single "right way" to make deals happen.
     
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    Aniela

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    Your replies are littered with assumptions Clinton which are intentionally positioned to elicit a certain response.

    As for that page of yours and the video link, well, they are no different than the methods used by the so-called "gurus" and "lazy brokers" and the "£1 charlie dealmakers" you seem to be finger-pointing at to provide others with a reason to need an advisor to help them all, for want of a better description ....... to broker deals on the buy and sell-side which is where you make your money.

    That's a very clever strategy and I guess that makes you a kind of anti-broker?

    There is no single "right way" to make deals happen.


    My advice to you, is to just take advice from people who actually are doing what you want to do.

    Never a good idea to take advice from anyone on buying/selling UK businesses who isn't or doesn't actively do it themselves.
     
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    NiSiWi

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    This forum gets more interesting by the moment. I just witnessed a post removed and then another post edited by a moderator.

    It appears that some can say what they like whilst others are censored.

    Whilst I agree that we should avoid gutter talk there should be a level of impartiality.

    I would love to understand the moderators position.
     
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    Aniela

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    This forum gets more interesting by the moment. I just witnessed a post removed and then another post edited by a moderator.

    It appears that some can say what they like whilst others are censored.

    Whilst I agree that we should avoid gutter talk there should be a level of impartiality.

    I would love to understand the moderators position.

    My post got deleted for flaming as I was pointing out flaws in another poster; even though they're allowed to make assumptions about part of an industry they don't actively do.

    My edited post was just because I incorrectly stated my post was likely reported. Will have to trust the mod on that one. :cool: (Edit: I assumed that as I've been reported on this forum before for calling out lies and dishonesty that goes on here. I tend to ruffle a few feathers with my honesty.)
     
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    intheTRADE

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    As on outsider the world of business brokering seems littered with cowboys and wannabees. It appears more corrupt than the commercial energy brokering industry, and that's saying something.

    I am connected with Clinton 'the expert' on LinkedIn (mainly for comedy value for the BS he posts) who shoots down anyone even suggesting they are involved in buying/selling businesses because they don't do it his way. Yet he offers no facts or case studies and cant be found anywhere on Companies House for the HUNDREDS of transactions he's been involved in over the years in - strange that.

    Then you even have the OP of this thread claiming to be a 'Professional Investor' - one look at his website shows you he is talking absolute tosh. Claiming 20+ years experience but again offering no facts or case studies of anything he has done in the industry. He has a team of 'expert advisors' that on his website are just 4 made up names (no first name just the initial) along with no images of them (expert himself) and links to their LinkedIn pages that don't work. Oh, and to top it off, his company was only registered on the 19th June - convenient.

    I have only ever sold one business and thank God I never had to deal with any brokers, advisors, experts or investors. Myself and the buyer struck a deal between ourselves that we were both happy with and our solicitors done the rest.
     
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    Aniela

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    As on outsider the world of business brokering seems littered with cowboys and wannabees. It appears more corrupt than the commercial energy brokering industry, and that's saying something.

    I am connected with Clinton 'the expert' on LinkedIn (mainly for comedy value for the BS he posts) who shoots down anyone even suggesting they are involved in buying/selling businesses because they don't do it his way. Yet he offers no facts or case studies and cant be found anywhere on Companies House for the HUNDREDS of transactions he's been involved in over the years in - strange that.

    Then you even have the OP of this thread claiming to be a 'Professional Investor' - one look at his website shows you he is talking absolute tosh. Claiming 20+ years experience but again offering no facts or case studies of anything he has done in the industry. He has a team of 'expert advisors' that on his website are just 4 made up names (no first name just the initial) along with no images of them (expert himself) and links to their LinkedIn pages that don't work. Oh, and to top it off, his company was only registered on the 19th June - convenient.

    I have only ever sold one business and thank God I never had to deal with any brokers, advisors, experts or investors. Myself and the buyer struck a deal between ourselves that we were both happy with and our solicitors done the rest.

    "As on outsider the world of business brokering seems littered with cowboys and wannabees. It appears more corrupt than the commercial energy brokering industry, and that's saying something." -

    I wouldn't say it's necessarily corrupt. It's more that virtually all business brokers pretty much do nothing. Business owners seem to just gravitate towards them thinking the broker has all the magic contacts to sell their business and the reality is, is that they pay sometimes large amounts of money to have their business details plonked on a website or placed on a list and the business never sells.

    It's just one of those odd industries that exists but maybe doesn't need to exist? Kind of like how estate agents walk you round a house pointing out that the room with a toilet in it, is a bathroom.

    One of those weird oddities in life where a process has just been accepted as a norm.

    "Myself and the buyer struck a deal between ourselves that we were both happy with and our solicitors done the rest."

    Impossible for you to have done that without being scammed and taking advantage of.... if you believe certain posters :rolleyes:
     
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    NiSiWi

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    The fact that a company was recently setup as a holding company or SPV for the purpose of buying businesses has zero relevance and may actually show a limited understanding of the process and the privacy, confidentiality and risk involved for the buyer. Oh yes, there is risk because sellers can be loose with the truth.

    However, I'm glad to hear you did the sensible thing and brokered a deal directly with a buyer (investor).
     
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    intheTRADE

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    Impossible for you to have done that without being scammed and taking advantage of.... if you believe certain posters :rolleyes:

    I know, right. I mean how could I have possibly known it's true value after the years I put into it, the asset's it owned, the turnover and the market potential. I should of gone to a broker who had no knowledge of any of this.
     
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    Aniela

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    Oh, and to top it off, his company was only registered on the 19th June - convenient

    To be fair to the OP, his original posts states that he's had a career working, and now moving into owning a company. Would be no reason for him to have previous companies formed based on that.

    If he was now looking to buy a business, forming a new company to handle the transaction would be quite normal.
     
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    intheTRADE

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    The fact that a company was recently setup as a holding company or SPV for the purpose of buying businesses has zero relevance and may actually show a limited understanding of the process and the privacy & confidentiality involved.
    (investor).

    Point accepted.

    However, my other points still stand. If I was interested in you investing in my business and I looked at your website I wouldn't go any further because of what I highlighted. You may well have the credentials you claim and that 'expert advisory board' my not be made up as it appears and it's you choice to portray that way. Just my observations that's all.

    Good luck in your next investment.
     
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    NiSiWi

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    To be fair to the OP, his original posts states that he's had a career working, and now moving into owning a company. Would be no reason for him to have previous companies formed based on that

    If he was now looking to buy a business, forming a new company to handle the transaction would be quite normal.

    Thanks for pointing that out.

    I have also owned my own companies and been involved in trade sales and acquisitions in various forms and roles.

    Anyhow, this is clearly a very divisive subject with a lot of beliefs and opinions and that's kind of the problem.
     
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    Aniela

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    And this is a good time to start looking around for businesses to buy.

    If the OP can focus on what is needed rather than spring ahead to envisioning owning a particular company then maybe he'll get some good deals.

    I agree with Mr D on this.

    The COVID situation has put a lot of business owners in a situation where they've realised they don't want to run a business anymore and are highly motivated to sell and come to a good deal/comprise to get the stress out of their life.

    Anyone that has cashflow to fund businesses until things start to go back up again, are going to be real winners.
     
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    Aniela

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    Thanks for pointing that out.

    I have also owned my own companies and been involved in trade sales and acquisitions in various forms and roles.

    Anyhow, this is clearly a very divisive subject with a lot of beliefs and opinions and that's kind of the problem.

    I think some people mainly hate on the 'buy a business for £1' courses etc because of how easy they make it sound etc, and that's where the hate towards that section of the industry comes from. (I may be wrong on that but that's how it comes across)

    I can somewhat understand that, as it blurs reality a little bit but bluring the reality is what goes on in most parts of all businesses.
     
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    You assumed someone was credible just because they called themselves professional? Where's that natural cynicism of yours that we've all come to love? ;)
    I am very cynical on this one - the 'professional' tag is in my book reserved for electric toothbrushes that tell us to brush like a pro - and apparently is better than doing it like Emmanuel Juan. (And if someone could enlighten me on why putting a vibrator in your mouth is better than whatever Emmanuel does, I would be grateful!)
    I assumed that as I've been reported on this forum before for calling out lies and dishonesty that goes on here. I tend to ruffle a few feathers with my honesty.
    I wish someone would ruffle my feathers - I haven't had a good ruffling for over a week!

    As on outsider the world of business brokering seems littered with cowboys and wannabees. It appears more corrupt than the commercial energy brokering industry, and that's saying something.
    That bit I'll agree with - and it seems to be a latter-day phenomenon and to be found in the massed ranks of the bottom feeders who are looking for suckers who don't know how to check people and companies out (i.e. due diligence).

    But then I've seen a very large international buy a UK company with 100 employees and completely miss the salient fact that all the designs and licenses were the private property of the owners and a friend of theirs and had just five years to run - they had spent a goodly seven-figure sum on almost nothing! At that end of the market, it is often the buyers who are the stupid ones!

    As for checking out the liquidity of someone - i.e. does this Charlie have any money? - I made an offer on a largish parcel of land and the seller was puzzled that I had not made the usual dance-around-the-houses about completion and mortgages and all that guff. Their beagle called my beagle and asked if I had the funds. Beagle-2 told Beagle-1 'Yes and then some!' and that was that.

    But back to the Batmobile - do we need brokers? In the world I inhabit - no! But then I have always worked in small fields like music, film or news; fields where everyone knows everyone else. When I was in the music biz I met all the good and greats - it's pretty inevitable - there are only a couple of thousand people at a certain level. Most of them are money-on-the-hoof or ability-on-the-hoof: it's always one or the other. As soon as someone is dodgy, everyone in the biz gets to know about it!

    You stiff the PA or lighting company once and suddenly every tour finance company and every PA or lighting company is fully booked and can't help you! And if you start acting-up and getting wild - rude, crude and socially unacceptable (tired and emotional) then you won't even get contingency insurance for your tour and then your career is in the toilet. When that happens, it's game-over!

    But outside of small worlds like music, news and film - we seem to be getting a new breed of business person and quite honestly, they are a breed I stay away from. They are not real.

    "WTF does that mean?" I hear you cry! I'll tell you in the words of an old producer friend of mine "I lose all sympathy for a man when I discover that he has no money!"

    Worse still, they have neither money nor ability. They often either have no qualifications or some bogus nonsense from a polytech or did PPE or similar degrees. They have no substance. Some of these creepy-crawlies launch PE companies and try to do leveraged buy-outs - largely because they have heard of those! It sounds like a clever wheeze! A trick you can pull!

    We're going to get a lot of those creatures in the coming months and years. They will try it on and of course, there will be some suckers out there daft enough or desperate enough to fall for them. Companies will fail a six-pack at a time and that means some Charlies will try to buy them for nothing. For those of you out there, remember to call Beagle-1. If Beagle-1 does not report back with a big grin on their face, do the old Weegie body-swerve!

    As for our OP, when I said " you will have everything in place" that was me saying politely that you would not be out there, looking for an acquisition target if you didn't have a seven- or eight-figure sum lined up and ready to roll. When Beagle-1 calls Beagle-2, will he or she give you the thumbs up?

    Or will they have to pull a face and start talking about proceeding with all due caution?
     
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    Paul FilmMaker

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    Thanks for pointing that out.

    I have also owned my own companies and been involved in trade sales and acquisitions in various forms and roles.

    Anyhow, this is clearly a very divisive subject with a lot of beliefs and opinions and that's kind of the problem.

    You're talking loosely about my customer base which is generally SME tech. I'm quite close to customers who talk about this. e.g. One of my customers (not on my website) has a fantastic customer base built up over 10 years, purely word-of-mouth so needs a sales and marketing engine. His wife wants him to sell. He's down about 25% in the current market but fundamentally has a good business.

    So I'm close enough that he and I talk about stuff and in fact, we'll probably be chatting today.

    However, before I run around my customer base recommending you all talk, can you give an idea of your top five investment criteria? And how far is 75 miles S of Midlands for you? Can you give me a town? And what do you have? Cash, stash of gold in the basement etc...?
     
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    NiSiWi

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    I am very cynical on this one

    Can you please explain the basis for your cynicism. As you've explained in your post, mistakes are made at every level and on both sides.

    What you seem to be saying is that deals are only done between people with 100% cash in their bank. What evidence do you have that demonstrates this is the case? You also seem to be saying that having cash make you trustworthy. This can, in fact, be the opposite as strong cash buyers often bail out at the last minute in order to try and drive an even harder bargain because the seller is so desperate to sell to his/her fabled 100% cash in the bank buyer.

    It comes down to one thing - people doing what they said they were going to do - on both sides.
     
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    NiSiWi

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    So I'm close enough that he and I talk about stuff and in fact, we'll probably be chatting today.

    However, before I run around my customer base recommending you all talk, can you give an idea of your top five investment criteria? And how far is 75 miles S of Midlands for you? Can you give me a town? And what do you have? Cash, stash of gold in the basement etc...?

    Now it's my turn for scepticism because you already seem to have a bias about the deal structure and by putting this alleged customer in the public forum and asking me those specifics when I asked people to private message is indeed very suggestive.

    I'll kindly pass thankyou.
     
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    UKSBD

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    Now it's my turn for scepticism because you already seem to have a bias about the deal structure and by putting this alleged customer in the public forum and asking me those specifics when I asked people to private message is indeed very suggestive.

    I'll kindly pass thankyou.

    It is against the rules of this forum to self promote and make posts asking people to PM you.

    Your OP would have normally been deleted, but as there were 5 or 6 replies to it before I saw it, I left it up.

    If you want to do things like that join as a full member and post in The Marketplace or Tenders
     
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    Can you please explain the basis for your cynicism. As you've explained in your post, mistakes are made at every level and on both sides.

    What you seem to be saying is that deals are only done between people with 100% cash in their bank. What evidence do you have that demonstrates this is the case? You also seem to be saying that having cash make you trustworthy. This can, in fact, be the opposite as strong cash buyers often bail out at the last minute in order to try and drive an even harder bargain because the seller is so desperate to sell to his/her fabled 100% cash in the bank buyer.

    It comes down to one thing - people doing what they said they were going to do - on both sides.

    Now it's my turn for scepticism because you already seem to have a bias about the deal structure and by putting this alleged customer in the public forum and asking me those specifics when I asked people to private message is indeed very suggestive.

    I'll kindly pass thankyou.

    I guess that answers the question about whether you’ve got any money then
     
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    Paul FilmMaker

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    Now it's my turn for scepticism because you already seem to have a bias about the deal structure and by putting this alleged customer in the public forum and asking me those specifics when I asked people to private message is indeed very suggestive.

    I'll kindly pass thankyou.

    Lol. If you know anything about tech SMEs, this could literally be half my customer base.

    I don't care about your deal structure or want to talk to you. I care about helping my customers. I'm just video production. So before I pass your details on to my customers that I genuinely want to help succeed, I want something to pass on.
     
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    Can you please explain the basis for your cynicism.
    I like people to be wysiwyg and not give it large. I bristle at the sight of a blizzard of newly formed companies that close without filing books or talk of making deals when someone does not appear to have any substance.
    It comes down to one thing - people doing what they said they were going to do - on both sides.
    The last time I sold a company it was about 18 months ago (Germany) and we got 10% deposit - non-returnable and one year to pay. The price was €1m fixed after a small but effective bidding war. A non-returnable deposit is a great way to keep 'em honest.

    As @Clinton says, one begins to sense these things. The talk, the way things are presented. In film or in music, the first thing anyone will ask is "Who are we dealing with here?" and if we're not sure, we find out.

    It's fishy when someone right from the get-go talks about 'structuring the deal' - yes that is very important, but when it is mentioned before we have even spoken about price, assets, timetables or anything, it is nearly always code for "I ain't got no money!"

    But you seem to have answered those questions yourself -
    I guess that answers the question about whether you’ve got any money then
     
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    RobinBHM

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    You're talking loosely about my customer base which is generally SME tech. I'm quite close to customers who talk about this. e.g. One of my customers (not on my website) has a fantastic customer base built up over 10 years, purely word-of-mouth so needs a sales and marketing engine. His wife wants him to sell. He's down about 25% in the current market but fundamentally has a good business.

    So I'm close enough that he and I talk about stuff and in fact, we'll probably be chatting today.

    However, before I run around my customer base recommending you all talk, can you give an idea of your top five investment criteria? And how far is 75 miles S of Midlands for you? Can you give me a town? And what do you have? Cash, stash of gold in the basement etc...?
    Seems pretty genuine, I don't understand why the Op rejected it -I mean why bother posting if you don't follow up leads........
     
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    As on outsider the world of business brokering seems littered with cowboys and wannabees. It appears more corrupt than the commercial energy brokering industry, and that's saying something.
    .

    I once likened the business-broking market to estate agency, with a core of old school, honest brokers giving good advice and realistic valuations being constantly undermined by kids with spiky hair and no experience dishing out stupid valuations and telling venders whatever they want to hear in order to get the signature.

    Incidentally, I’d apply exactly the same analogy to finance brokers.

    I’ve since discovered that, for that comparison to work, your estate agent would need to tie you into a contract so corrupt that if you withdrew your house from market and your kids inherited it 10 years later, you would still be liable for their fees
     
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