looking at launching a website but hard to find reliable web developer

[gezzagregz]

Hi Everyone,

i'm looking at launching a website (nothing to complicated) but it requires programming (so maybe it is complicated :|).

i need something similar to www.my-picture.co.uk

Any suggestions of price for something like this?

any advice/suggestions of someone reliable that could help with something like this would be great.

cheers

 

[smo]

Join the queue!!!!!

I'm afraid that finding a good developer who really knows their stuff is incredibly hard. I've been let down more times than i care to remember over the years by people who either never deliver, or deliver crap beacuse they werent upto the job in the first place.

Many developers talk big but very few deliver.

 

I have pm'd you both.

I hope we can help

 

[gezzagregz]

i totally understand where you are coming from on this.

i invested quite a subtantial amount to get a fairly simple website up and running however have shut it down due to the stress of having to deal with what i now know as an incompetent p**ck.

i know there are some top developers out there that deliver but i'm sceptical after prior experience.

> i dont know whether it would be worth trying to redevelop the old site i had or start from scratch again.

it's a tuffy

 

If you would like to pm me your details or email me your brief. We would be more than happy to take a look at your site and also quote on a new site should that be a route you wish to go down.

 

[NextPoint]

Good developers aren't hard to find if you know where to look for them. The only time it goes wrong is when you want to cut corners on costs - this leads you to one of the following situations:

* You hire someone who is outsourcing your work to another country to get work at cheap prices. This scenario provides the problems that you can't guarantee the skills of who is being hired and also the communication barriers of the distance, language, third party communications and time zones.

* You hire a developer who is charging cheap rates because they need to expand their portfolio. If they are doing this, they usually don't have the experience, hence the reason for charging cheaply.

* You hire a good developer, but your project doesn't pay for their time, so you don't get the attention you require.


In general, you get what you pay for. If you are willing to pay the standard rate for a developers time and you can ensure that the developer has the skills required to deliver, then you will get a fair deal. If you pay peanuts you get monkeys

 

[NuBlue]

i invested quite a subtantial amount to get a fairly simple website up and running however have shut it down due to the stress of having to deal with what i now know as an incompetent p**ck.

Just out of interest, how much is a substantial amount of money?

In my experience, the people who get seriously let down are the people who wanted 'something fairly simple' - paid peanuts for it -the project turned out to be far from simple - developer loses interest once their fee wittles down to the equivalent of £2 an hour and everyone gets upset.

Not saying this is the case but, I have worked with hundreds of web developers in collaborations on projects and can count the times I have been let down on one hand so I don't think the assumption that we are all unable to deliver is true.

Not trying to start an argument, just thought someone needed to stick up for us web developers Best of luck with the project

 

[gezzagregz]

£2300...

it was simple yet made difficult...

i'm not saying there are no reliable developers as this would be a silly statement. I'm just saying the one i had left me slightly distressed despit paying what he asked...

Just out of interest, how much is a substantial amount of money?

In my experience, the people who get seriously let down are the people who wanted 'something fairly simple' - paid peanuts for it -the project turned out to be far from simple - developer loses interest once their fee wittles down to the equivalent of £2 an hour and everyone gets upset.

Not saying this is the case but, I have worked with hundreds of web developers in collaborations on projects and can count the times I have been let down on one hand so I don't think the assumption that we are all unable to deliver is true.

Not trying to start an argument, just thought someone needed to stick up for us web developers Best of luck with the project

 

[smo]

Good developers aren't hard to find

I beg to differ, good developers are very hard to find. Bedroom jockies and average developers are everywhere, taking snippets of code from here and there and piecemealing it together isnt developing!

In general, you get what you pay for. If you are willing to pay the standard rate for a developers time and you can ensure that the developer has the skills required to deliver, then you will get a fair deal. If you pay peanuts you get monkeys

Yes, you do get what you pay for. Checking someones skills is very hard, especially as its likely you dont have the skills yourself otherwise you wouldnt be in the market for someone who has! Many developers big themselves up, and like i said above, piecing snippets together or using wordpress or something isnt true development.

My projects are complex and finding someone capable is tricky.

 

[brownie]

I think a lot of businesses are not clear on the difference between a developer and a designer, not many decent web developers (ahem..like myself) can design for toffee. Us developers will get the backend up and running and the website functional but it will look rubbish, a designer will then be required to put the polish on the frontend.

I've never met anyone in over 10 years who can perform both roles well, they require very different types of people.

I'm just saying the one i had left me slightly distressed despit paying what he asked...

Just one point, I've no idea what happened in your case, no one should pay any developer upfront, negotiate a percentage of the fee with the balance to be payed on completion and signoff.

There you go NuBlue, another one sticking up for us developers.

The other problem you will find, is decent developers probably have more work than they need so can charge a reasonable rate.

 

[fisicx]

I'd also argue that it's not just a developer you need. They can do all the geeky coding stuff but that doesn't maske them comeptenat at usability, accessibility, captology, UX, copywriting, marketing, user testing, information chunking, typography, graphic design, SEO and every other aspect of website design.

If you do find a developer, try these questions: http://www.seomoz.org/blog/interviewing-web-developers-20-good-questions-to-ask

 

[awebapart.com]

i invested quite a subtantial amount to get a fairly simple website up and running however have shut it down due to the stress of having to deal with what i now know as an incompetent p**ck.

i'm looking at launching a website (nothing to complicated) but it requires programming (so maybe it is complicated :|).

i need something similar to my-picture.co.uk

So you class a website...

where customers can upload their own photos (up to 30MB photos), manipulate those photos into a final design with different product options whilst interactively showing a preview of the final design, then order their custom products with advanced ecommerce features such as onsite card processing and shipping calculated on size, weight, country, not even considering what the website backend system is (fulfilment, order processing) etc...

... as a simple website?

Underestimating the complexity of a problem, is IMO, one of the main reasons why software development projects fail, overrun, go overbudget, or run into problems. Forrester Research place it at number 5 in their top 10 reasons why software development projects fail.

That Forrester Research article mentions software development mistakes, but from my experience it almost always starts off as a client problem. The client thinks it is simple, and they therefore choose a supplier who also says that it is simple, because the supplier response matches their initial expectations, and more importantly budget, regardless of whether it is correct or not.

Even the description I have given of your website requirements above may sound simple, but the devil is always in the detail. Complexity exists in even the most simplest of things.

Forget software, websites and IT systems, even a simple thing like giving instructions to make a cup of tea is complex when you consider all possible eventualities (it is not just a case of "put the kettle on and make a cup of tea", if kettle is empty add water, which tap to use to fill the kettle, what if there is no water coming from the tap, once water is in kettle switch kettle on, what if kettle does not switch on, ... what cup, what tea, what if there is no tea, what if teabag breaks, what sugar... etc).

i know there are some top developers out there that deliver but i'm sceptical after prior experience.

There are top developers out there. But does it not make sense that the top developers get to pick and choose their clients?

If you were a top developer would you choose a client who thinks everything you do should be easy, one who disagrees with you when you tell them that in fact it is complicated? Or would you choose a client who listens to you, respects you, and trusts your judgement?

i need something similar to my-picture.co.uk

I would suggest that you need something similar in user order functionality to that site only. Is that site a business success? Does it do well on the search engines (for targeted terms like photos on canvas)? Does it make much money? If not, then you really don't want something too similar to that particular site.

 

[BusinessRookie]

I think the cause of this problem is the fact that there is no standard accreditation for Web development or I.T.

Most professions have a professional body and a standard level of accreditation which ensures minimum standards but there's nothing to distinguish between a self-taught bedroom web developer and a professional developer/designer. Granted, there are now degrees in web design/development, CIW qualifications and Microsoft accreditation but which is the better root when choosing a designer/developer? The first question I like to ask is how a person is qualified to do what they do. Sure experience counts for something but a designer can claim to have 10 years experience but yet only designed 10 sites in their spare-time versus a professional developer who has done ten times that much?

 

[smo]

awebapart.com makes a very good point opening his post above - what you are asking from your website is far from simple.

Its similar to one of my sites, which took years to get to the basic level we are currently at, and now we are looking to take it further i am fully aware of how complex it is!

 

[gezzagregz]

Thank you for you response. You are totally right with what you have said which is why i said it may not be as simple as i thought, however i paid the dollar and didnt get the end product. In terms of communication, giving the developer space and allowing him to have his share of input...i did this.... believe me (i just got ripped off ).

I used that site as a benchmark for functionality not the look and feel of the site.

cheers

So you class a website...

where customers can upload their own photos (up to 30MB photos), manipulate those photos into a final design with different product options whilst interactively showing a preview of the final design, then order their custom products with advanced ecommerce features such as onsite card processing and shipping calculated on size, weight, country, not even considering what the website backend system is (fulfilment, order processing) etc...

... as a simple website?

Underestimating the complexity of a problem, is IMO, one of the main reasons why software development projects fail, overrun, go overbudget, or run into problems. Forrester Research place it at number 5 in their top 10 reasons why software development projects fail.

That Forrester Research article mentions software development mistakes, but from my experience it almost always starts off as a client problem. The client thinks it is simple, and they therefore choose a supplier who also says that it is simple, because the supplier response matches their initial expectations, and more importantly budget, regardless of whether it is correct or not.

Even the description I have given of your website requirements above may sound simple, but the devil is always in the detail. Complexity exists in even the most simplest of things.

Forget software, websites and IT systems, even a simple thing like giving instructions to make a cup of tea is complex when you consider all possible eventualities (it is not just a case of "put the kettle on and make a cup of tea", if kettle is empty add water, which tap to use to fill the kettle, what if there is no water coming from the tap, once water is in kettle switch kettle on, what if kettle does not switch on, ... what cup, what tea, what if there is no tea, what if teabag breaks, what sugar... etc).


There are top developers out there. But does it not make sense that the top developers get to pick and choose their clients?

If you were a top developer would you choose a client who thinks everything you do should be easy, one who disagrees with you when you tell them that in fact it is complicated? Or would you choose a client who listens to you, respects you, and trusts your judgement?

I would suggest that you need something similar in user order functionality to that site only. Is that site a business success? Does it do well on the search engines (for targeted terms like photos on canvas)? Does it make much money? If not, then you really don't want something too similar to that particular site.

 

[Vision2]

I think the cause of this problem is the fact that there is no standard accreditation for Web development or I.T.

Most professions have a professional body and a standard level of accreditation which ensures minimum standards but there's nothing to distinguish between a self-taught bedroom web developer and a professional developer/designer. Granted, there are now degrees in web design/development, CIW qualifications and Microsoft accreditation but which is the better root when choosing a designer/developer? The first question I like to ask is how a person is qualified to do what they do. Sure experience counts for something but a designer can claim to have 10 years experience but yet only designed 10 sites in their spare-time versus a professional developer who has done ten times that much?

most problems i see is with people looking to cut too many corners, and come up with crazy amounts of money for something. When you calculate in the cost of the site, development time, all the discussions etc, most seem to expect to spend a very low amount and want the same result as a company spending 100 times that. It's just madness

If you want to know whether or not someone is good, ask them for who you can talk to, their clients, all decent dev's can provide a short list of clients you can talk to. Only issue is that a lot of work tends to be NDA's as well.

Also, lot of people compare spending a few grand in the UK against spending a few hundred with some random company in india or where ever else. It's cheaper for many many reasons, make your own judgement if it's worth it or not.

...

Regarding the OP question, couple grand for a site like that isn't a simple site. I can only assume you have a decent sized budget for marketing etc as well.

You proberly haven't recieved much back because your budget isn't that realistic for what you are after, and like buying a house - you need to make some compremises somewhere, increase the budget to a realistic level or increase it a fair chunk to attract dev's who can deliver what you are after

 

[NextPoint]

I beg to differ, good developers are very hard to find. Bedroom jockies and average developers are everywhere, taking snippets of code from here and there and piecemealing it together isnt developing!

Maybe I just know the right places to look. Don't get me wrong - I certainly know that there are a lot of people who claim to be good developers, but who just tweak code without understanding what it does. Being a developer who knows about good coding principles and who likes to fully understand how I code I work with works, I suppose I am to tell the difference more easily. The problems here usually come when people hire someone to do a bespoke system, try to cut corners on costs and end up with someone who installs Wordpress and tries to tweak it to do the job - don't get me wrong, this can work for many basic projects, but the more specialised your requirements, the more specialised your code needs to be and Wordpress isn't a system for very specialist requirements.

The moral of the story - know what to look for in web developers and don't try to cut corners on costs, then you will know lots of good developers to choose from.

Yes, you do get what you pay for. Checking someones skills is very hard, especially as its likely you dont have the skills yourself otherwise you wouldnt be in the market for someone who has! Many developers big themselves up, and like i said above, piecing snippets together or using wordpress or something isnt true development.

My projects are complex and finding someone capable is tricky.

Oops, you beat me to it ;-). A standard thing that development agencies do is set a task for potential developers to write code for and then use this to review their coding abilities. If you're not a coder, you could always pop into a university and hire one of their lecturers to provide a report on the code submitted - this would be a good way of saving on a costly mistake in hiring a poor developer. Keep in mind that in general, the time cost of developing a system is only 20% of the total time/effort - the other 80% of effort is in maintaining and upgrading the system, so it makes sense to spend more on the initially on the first 20% to make the code more maintainable so that the remaining 80% can be achieved more quickly, cheaply and bug free.

 

[gezzagregz]

if a customer specifies what they want clearly and concisely and they receive a quote based on that, whether 2k or 10k...they would expect to get what they ask for. i'm no developer and i do not know the going rates.

My speciality is marketing and i did have a strategy ready to go,,, need a website for a kick off though.

most problems i see is with people looking to cut too many corners, and come up with crazy amounts of money for something. When you calculate in the cost of the site, development time, all the discussions etc, most seem to expect to spend a very low amount and want the same result as a company spending 100 times that. It's just madness

If you want to know whether or not someone is good, ask them for who you can talk to, their clients, all decent dev's can provide a short list of clients you can talk to. Only issue is that a lot of work tends to be NDA's as well.

Also, lot of people compare spending a few grand in the UK against spending a few hundred with some random company in india or where ever else. It's cheaper for many many reasons, make your own judgement if it's worth it or not.

...

Regarding the OP question, couple grand for a site like that isn't a simple site. I can only assume you have a decent sized budget for marketing etc as well.

You proberly haven't recieved much back because your budget isn't that realistic for what you are after, and like buying a house - you need to make some compremises somewhere, increase the budget to a realistic level or increase it a fair chunk to attract dev's who can deliver what you are after

 

[NextPoint]

if a customer specifies what they want clearly and concisely and they receive a quote based on that, whether 2k or 10k...they would expect to get what they ask for. i'm no developer and i do not know the going rates.

My speciality is marketing and i did have a strategy ready to go,,, need a website for a kick off though.

For that reason it is always better to hire on an hourly rate - providing that both parties are ethical in how they proceed on the project. The problem with software development is that writing code isn't like writing literature - as well as getting writers block, a developer can run into a problem that could take hours or days to solve. Working on fixed budgets also limits you to what you can have and stops you from being able to react to changes in your market. If both parties work ethically with good project management on an hourly rate of pay, then you can modify your requirements as and when because a fair days pay get a fair days work.

Also, a problem of fixed price projects is that you need 'very clear' requirements to begin with. If you leave some descriptions open to interpretation, the developer will most likely assume you to mean how it is worded, whereas you assume xyz and abc to be included with what you have written - a nightmare scenario that increases your expectation of the developer by many times the size of the project.

 

[Vision2]

if a customer specifies what they want clearly and concisely and they receive a quote based on that, whether 2k or 10k...they would expect to get what they ask for. i'm no developer and i do not know the going rates.

My speciality is marketing and i did have a strategy ready to go,,, need a website for a kick off though.

Indeed, but same principle as you hiring someone to fix your boiler, or install some central heating etc.

Some will just stick crap on the walls, whilst others will do the prep work and get it done right so you don't have to sit there looking at the dodgy pipes all exposed.

I've seen clients specs that run 10's of pages deep if not more but don't acturally say anything about what's going on, what's needed, what about the future? etc so many questions left unanswered. This needs to be refined, simplified - clean... with that comes time + cost which also needs to be worked into the budgets of sites. Baring in mind that in the end you might not even use that person / company, so you've cost them a considerable amount of money. Same can be said the other way around when you as the client wastes time with people/companies to get the site done.

A client's spec is never clear, always has questions that need answering on it. That costs time.

Decide what you want, bespoke or modified of the shelve. Flip your budget to suit which one. - if you are going down the bespoke route, i'd personally say for a site like that, something decent your budget is too low to attract the right crowd.

 

[fisicx]

And just to repeat myself. All the developer will do is the backend code. You will still need someone to do the actual website design: set up the site architecture, sort out the page structures, create the imagery, do the copywriting, carry out usability and accesbility testing and so on. There is shed loads of work to do long before you have to worry about the developer.

Have you for example considered your martketing strategy? Until you know how you are going to market the site and to whom you won't be able to brief the designers/developers.

 

[NextPoint]

Vision2 has the right idea on where problems may start. Very bespoke systems are very expensive. Another way to look at the project is to identify your budget and then invite developers to propose what they can deliver - that way, you can clearly see what is proposed without the risk of you assuming you will get abc and xyz extra.

Another option of to add to bespoke or off the shelf solutions is using a mixture of both. When I say this, I don't mean taking Wordpress and tweaking it, but using a framework system that is created specifically as an applications platform rather than something like Wordpress that is designed as a Blog platform that can be expanded to do e-commerce. One popular example of this is Ruby On Rails - Ruby is the development language and Rails is the application platform that has many features available to reduce the required time. I have taken the same concept to develop my Sharescape and Ignition Engine platforms.

 

[awebapart.com]

And just to repeat myself. All the developer will do is the backend code. You will still need someone to do the actual website design: set up the site architecture, sort out the page structures, create the imagery, do the copywriting, carry out usability and accesbility testing and so on. There is shed loads of work to do long before you have to worry about the developer.

That depends on how the word 'developer' is interpreted. Developer as in solution provider, the company you commission to get the overall job done, or developer as in some coder you outsource bits and bobs of coding work to.

For advanced systems that require a lot of software development, where software development makes up a good majority of the solution, it does not make sense for someone without development skills to be architecting the overall design of such a system.

And even if the word 'developer' is interpreted as just the person who codes functionality, I would say that could just as equally be browser-side functionality as server-side back-end functionality. With AJAX the distinction is even less clear. For a site that uploads 30MB photos, and manipulates those photos into products and shows interactive previews, I would also say that quite a lot of browser-side functionality may be required too.

'Web designer' is another word open to different interpretations. A person who just produces pictures of websites might call themselves a web designer, one very small part of the solution, whereas I would call them a graphic designer who produces pictures of websites. Another 'web designer' might provide the whole solution.

if a customer specifies what they want clearly and concisely and they receive a quote based on that, whether 2k or 10k...they would expect to get what they ask for.

Get what they asked for?

or

Get their interpretation of what they asked for?

or

Get their supplier's interpretation of what they asked for?

or

Get what they really wanted, what they really needed?

I have already demonstrated that words like developer or web designer can have different interpretations to different people. Detailed specs can help, but you also need a client-supplier contract too.

Specs can sometimes be limiting too, expecting you to know everything you need to know about your requirements, knowing what to ask for, upfront. Sometimes more flexible project methodologies can help you achieve what you really want.

 

[marketimpact]

Hi Everyone,

i'm looking at launching a website (nothing to complicated) but it requires programming (so maybe it is complicated :|).

i need something similar to www.my-picture.co.uk

Any suggestions of price for something like this?

any advice/suggestions of someone reliable that could help with something like this would be great.

cheers

If your looking for a reliable web design company with high quality websites then you should come and check IBC Webtech out - http://ibcwebtech.com. We can build a 3 page website for £399 - http://ibcwebtech.com/design/

 

[fisicx]

If your looking for a reliable web design company with high quality websites then you should come and check IBC Webtech out - http://ibcwebtech.com. We can build a 3 page website for £399 - http://ibcwebtech.com/design/

That was a pretty pointless post. If you had read the thread you would realise that they want a little more than a 3 page site.

 

[marketimpact]

That was a pretty pointless post. If you had read the thread you would realise that they want a little more than a 3 page site.

it is not a pointless post because they said they want something similar. i included my link so they could see what else we did!

 

[brownie]

it is not a pointless post because they said they want something similar. i included my link so they could see what else we did!

I'm afraid it is, what in your portfolio matches the functionality of the website the OP has requested? Nothing!

Your portfolio which only shows 3 little thumbnails is not very impressive, one of them, the iShop, is a Prestashop store using a default template and that website is in the same group of companies (GCO Network Group) as IBC Webtech.

You are indicative of the problem in the industry today.

 

[marketimpact]

I'm afraid it is, what in your portfolio matches the functionality of the website the OP has requested? Nothing!

Your portfolio which only shows 3 little thumbnails is not very impressive, one of them, the iShop, is a Prestashop store using a default template and that website is in the same group of companies (GCO Network Group) as IBC Webtech.

You are indicative of the problem in the industry today.

Ecommerce sites are built on templates or stores. That is why costs are low. There is still alot of work still involved when building a store. There is nothing wrong in showing work I have done for my site.

Instead of making petty markes on other peoples post please dont it is childish and not very productive

 

[brownie]

I have launched a brand new site called The iShop and I am looking for advice on how to promote my business with not alot of money.
Please have a look at the site and i will love to see your advice

My link is in profile

Your business is brand new............

I do know stuff about gadgets, but i dont have the room to stock stuff as i work from home.

I am offering the chance for anyone who wants to earn a few bob on a commission bases. All i want is a website built but i will do all the marketing to get it off the ground but i need someone to help with the site or build one

and is being run from home.............

I have taken over my dads web design company and i am in the middle of redesigning the web site and getting a list of web designers i could use.

Once we have the website up and running, I will need to promote it. Problem is I have limited funding to market it and I dont want to spend all off it on Google Adsense or Good Adwords.

So i need some solid advice so that I can get this website off the ground and running?

you do not design any websites yourself hence are scouting around for web designers to sub the work out to..............

I am currently have a reseller account with uk2. I have been with them for 2 months and never have had a problem. I would recommend them

A 2 month old reseller account with the infamous UK2..........

Look again at what the original poster has requested, you clearly have not read it.

It is not something that you can produce from an ecommerce template hence this discussion about web development, not a thread for you to try and promote your business. What hope have you got if you cannot even understand the original requirement.

Why not try and add something of value to this thread?

 

[marketimpact]

Your business is brand new............



and is being run from home.............



you do not design any websites yourself hence are scouting around for web designers to sub the work out to..............



A 2 month old reseller account with the infamous UK2..........

Look again at what the original poster has requested, you clearly have not read it.

It is not something that you can produce from an ecommerce template hence this discussion about web development, not a thread for you to try and promote your business. What hope have you got if you cannot even understand the original requirement.

Why not try and add something of value to this thread?

Listern, why do I have defend myself. I am trying to build a business here and then there is jerks like yourself who are idiots picking in posts i put up. IBC Webtech is a web design company. I have web designers who will design the webpages for clients. UK2 have been very good so far with my reseller hosting account. I have added my opinion to the post. There are other people on here who do the same as me with self promoting. Everyone does it who has a business.

 

[BusinessRookie]

Having read through this thread, is it generally true that choosing web designers/web developers can only be judged on a portfolio of work and not upon qualifications or training?

SEO is also a very grey area as apart from google, there are no standard qualifications to be had.

 

[Vision2]

Having read through this thread, is it generally true that choosing web designers/web developers can only be judged on a portfolio of work and not upon qualifications or training?

SEO is also a very grey area as apart from google, there are no standard qualifications to be had.

Look at their work, if it's something that you are after, or youfeel fits you in some way, go deeper, ask them for a list of a few of their clients who would be willing to speak to you on their behalf.

don't go randomly calling peoples clients up through, thats just nasty business

Decent designers etc all have a few clients we have on hand for testimonials etc who are happy to chat to potential clients about their thoughts etc they had.

Obvoiusly this is near enough impossible to make up, as that clients contact information is on their own website etc.

 

[fisicx]

Everyone does it who has a business.

No they don't. Nobody has done so in this thread except for you.

The OP wants a developer not someone who outsources.

 

[MarcusMiller]

'Web Design' is just one hell of an umbrella term. I am a web designer / developer with ten years or so in the game and we are now pushing towards a much thinner product offering rather than being a 'hey, we can do everything' shop as it is just not a profitable or satisfying way to work. This industry will, and already has to some extent splintered off into sub niches and there are ecommerce specialists, cms specialists, wordpress developers etc. I see this being more and more the case as time goes on and the consumers become more savvy.

Five years or so ago I really enjoyed bespoke development, writing functional specifications, project planning, wireframes, user interface testing and really toughting it out with the client to define and refine their requirements and then put the building blocks together. Thing is, who, bar the big boys who tend to do it in house anyway, has that kind of budget at the moment? I know there is no way in the world we would take on that job for 2.5k, simply not worth it - but it takes some time (and mistakes) before you can confidently turn away business and know the job is just not your bag and that is even truer in this bloomin financial environment.

I got into a similar situation about six years ago. It was, in part my own fault, I took on a job to build a dating site and tried to hack it together with bits of code I found here and there and quoted about 2.5k from pure naivety. I got it working, to some extent, but the client was never happy, I could not deliver what I promised and ended up walking away from months of work without billing them - it was a hard, but valuable lesson!

All said, I do feel sorry for the original poster, he had a business idea, the developer was happy to take his money and promise to deliver but the reality was somewhere else. Fella, if you are still looking for something like this, I can't help but... try to prove your idea first, see what you can leverage that will get you 90% there and then if you can get the core element of the business earning money, then reinvest in your site but make sure you research the company well, maybe contact companies that have built the sites you are taking inspiration from but be prepared to have somewhat deeper pockets!

Still, all is not lost, you are still here and ready to fight another day! What is the saying 'he who never makes mistakes never makes anything'. Well, business is a series of mistakes and lessons and you get stronger with each mistake you make and lesson you take from it.

You have been burned here, but next time you come to commision a website you will research it hard, you will needle the company and likely sign contracts and do everything you can to be a kick ass consumer. And tell you what, you will be a better client as well for whoever is lucky to win the business will have someone on their hands who has researched the project to death and knows exactly what they want and what is a realistic price to pay for it.

Keep fighting the good fight!

P.S. And hey, marketimpact, i know this likely feels like everyone is bagging on you but you simply don't have the experience to take on this kind of project. Sometimes, you have to figure out what you can do, get real good at it so you can increase the quality, keep prices low and bring real value to market. If you try to hoover up any project by doing them for silly money you are just going to end up with a bad reputation, grey hair and a heart attack from the stress.

P.P.S. As an idea, it may be worth looking at a university leaver. Jobs are like rocking horse poop at the moment so you may be able to get a keen youngster for £400 a month or something daft. He gets some experience, you get an in house resource that you can really work with over a realistic period of time to build your technology platform and if it works out you can take him on full time in X months after you launch. Not something I have done myself but it could be worth taking a look.

 

[Paul Norman]

Be encouraged! There are good developers out there. As well as less good ones!

It is vital though, at the outset, to strike up a good relationship of trust. For a web project to work, there needs to be total clarity on what is required to be achieved, total clarity on timescales, and total clarity on costs.

And on timescales, be cautious. If the project is straightforward they are easy to predict, but otherwise not.

I have, over the last 10 years, commissioned a number of websites, with significant budgets. I have had more encouraging experience that is reported often!

 

[smo]

I got into a similar situation about six years ago. It was, in part my own fault, I took on a job to build a dating site and tried to hack it together with bits of code I found here and there and quoted about 2.5k from pure naivety. I got it working, to some extent, but the client was never happy, I could not deliver what I promised and ended up walking away from months of work without billing them - it was a hard, but valuable lesson!

Please dont think im picking on you Marcus, but you were honest enough to say this had happend.

The thing is, whilst you walked away from 9 months of work unpaid, the poor person who comissioned you, perhaps as a startup business, or someone trying desperately to expand ended up 9 months down the line with nothing - this is potentially catastrophic, and could well in some situations end someones business.

I've been on the receiving end of a project like this and its a big blow, thankfully we were well enough established to survive but its a huge setback.

Just my 2 pence, and once again - i'm not intending to pick on you Marcus, merely demonstrates the example nicele

 

[NextPoint]

Please dont think im picking on you Marcus, but you were honest enough to say this had happend.

The thing is, whilst you walked away from 9 months of work unpaid, the poor person who comissioned you, perhaps as a startup business, or someone trying desperately to expand ended up 9 months down the line with nothing - this is potentially catastrophic, and could well in some situations end someones business.

I've been on the receiving end of a project like this and its a big blow, thankfully we were well enough established to survive but its a huge setback.

Just my 2 pence, and once again - i'm not intending to pick on you Marcus, merely demonstrates the example nicele

I wouldn't necessarily say they had nothing 9 months later - Marcus says he got the site working, I'm guessing the client wanted more than Marcus was able to give within the price, and that doesn't mean that the website was functional. This is a typical issue in IT, in which people assume things that sound easy are easy. This is also why I say an hourly rate is the best way forward - at the end of the day a developer is creating a product for someone and so a fair day's work is worth a fair day's pay.

 

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[NextPoint]

We can help - www.pcconsultants.co.uk - [email protected]

Tell us more how you can help ;-).

 

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In reference to the original post, we can certainly help with the requested website -

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