Logo Design
- Thread starter deniser
- Start date
L
Lentinus
No, but I have used 99designs that is/was similar before the costs went sky high. I had a couple of really top quality logo's designed. paid $100 for the first one and $150 for the second.
Ignoring the 30% dross, the quality of submissions was amazing.
Two key points, offer a little over the average and give plenty of immediate feedback and encouagement to the designers (not sure how the site you mentioned works beyond the front page but I assume same way ie as a competition)
Ignoring the 30% dross, the quality of submissions was amazing.
Two key points, offer a little over the average and give plenty of immediate feedback and encouagement to the designers (not sure how the site you mentioned works beyond the front page but I assume same way ie as a competition)
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Do a search. One of these $29/39/49 etc jobs is a rip off from start to finish.
I last used a guy from People Per Hour. Now some there offer stuff for peanuts but this guy was decent and we worked through some problems without drama via direct email.
I paid £95 I think and I consider it money well spent.
I also concur that the logoguru / 99 designs were good but they have shot themselves in the foot by raising prices to £200 or $200 minimum, plus fees etc. I mean, 99 designs is £199 for a logo and then another £100 minimum (£299) for a log and a business card. Are they real ?
I've got a couple of other designers from PPH I'm watching who just might get some direct work to cut out PPH as PPH's terms are not too good and like all these sites, conflict resolution is half baked.
I last used a guy from People Per Hour. Now some there offer stuff for peanuts but this guy was decent and we worked through some problems without drama via direct email.
I paid £95 I think and I consider it money well spent.
I also concur that the logoguru / 99 designs were good but they have shot themselves in the foot by raising prices to £200 or $200 minimum, plus fees etc. I mean, 99 designs is £199 for a logo and then another £100 minimum (£299) for a log and a business card. Are they real ?
I've got a couple of other designers from PPH I'm watching who just might get some direct work to cut out PPH as PPH's terms are not too good and like all these sites, conflict resolution is half baked.
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B
Bright-Future
There are plenty of very good, cheap graphic design freelancers out there who specialise in logo design. I'd look into that as logo's a so important to a company and you don't want to go down the cheap route and end up with a logo you're not happy with. We worked for a long time on ours and consulted a number of freelance graphic designs and we love the logo we ended up with. Good luck in creating your logo, it's so vital so take your time with it!
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Yeah but if budget is limited and you want more than you can do yourself or can get from an automated program, then probably better you pitch up your $50 and get what you can and then come back later when you've made some cash and get a proper job done.
Or simply, don't bother and just use a decent font and some colour on letterheads.
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vividbusiness
If you have an idea of your design sketch it and then send to a local printers / graphic designers and they would normally do a few takes and examples for you to chose the best one you like.
I know of a company who are reasonable and do unlimited changes to your design and then can print your design in many formats the lady is called Jenny and her company is called WEE print design in Scotland
www weeprintcouk
Google companies and chat with them there are many out there! I always chose companies who are small and need the business and who are likely to talk to you in person and you are able to develop a rapport.
Send us the link to your finished logo it would be great to see and tell us where you got it done!
All the best
Sean Paul
Business Coach
Vivid Business Solutions
I know of a company who are reasonable and do unlimited changes to your design and then can print your design in many formats the lady is called Jenny and her company is called WEE print design in Scotland
www weeprintcouk
Google companies and chat with them there are many out there! I always chose companies who are small and need the business and who are likely to talk to you in person and you are able to develop a rapport.
Send us the link to your finished logo it would be great to see and tell us where you got it done!
All the best
Sean Paul
Business Coach
Vivid Business Solutions
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I need my current logo revising before Daren from ITsold finishes off my site. Plus I've got another small venture I'm finalising over the wkd so could do one for that ASAP.
Are the above the best and most cost effective way to go? A friend did mine first time round but his most recent revised attempt was pretty poor.
Are the above the best and most cost effective way to go? A friend did mine first time round but his most recent revised attempt was pretty poor.
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I took on a designer from PPH over the wkd. The first drafts have just been sent over to me and to be totally honest i'm not all that impressed.
What exactly happens on PPH if i'm not happy with any of the options provided?
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vividbusiness
Platform,
I am not sure of PPH, but what I recommend is that you re contact them and explain that you are not satisfied and give the reasons why and say thank you for the help, but you are going to try another supplier.
See what they reply to, I would not advise paying for something you are not happy with - Remember its Business!
Check out a lady called Jenny at http://www.weeprint.co.uk/ they are very helpful and should be able to accommodate your needs and they have unlimited changes until you are happy!
Good luck, let me know how you get on
Regards
Sean Paul
Business Coach
Vivid Business Solutions
@sean_bus
I am not sure of PPH, but what I recommend is that you re contact them and explain that you are not satisfied and give the reasons why and say thank you for the help, but you are going to try another supplier.
See what they reply to, I would not advise paying for something you are not happy with - Remember its Business!
Check out a lady called Jenny at http://www.weeprint.co.uk/ they are very helpful and should be able to accommodate your needs and they have unlimited changes until you are happy!
Good luck, let me know how you get on
Regards
Sean Paul
Business Coach
Vivid Business Solutions
@sean_bus
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T
tacticalsales
I've used People Per Hour quite a bit last month - out of 7 projects only 2 were of poor standard.
Honestly like anything you get what you pay - the less I paid the crappy the product the more I paid it just got incredibly good!
Bit of a risk but logo design is like graphic design in general - chances are what you pictured in your mind won't match what's physically in front of you.
Honestly like anything you get what you pay - the less I paid the crappy the product the more I paid it just got incredibly good!
Bit of a risk but logo design is like graphic design in general - chances are what you pictured in your mind won't match what's physically in front of you.
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P
PDC
We used a similar online site and ended up giving up, the quality of work was just really poor. Unlimited revisions is one thing but we found ourselves just going in circles and wasting time.
We ended up contacting a local agency with a portfolio we liked. It didn't cost us any more than some of the prices quoted here and it was much easier to arrive at a design we were happy with.
We ended up contacting a local agency with a portfolio we liked. It didn't cost us any more than some of the prices quoted here and it was much easier to arrive at a design we were happy with.
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I have two people I use for graphic design work. Both Uni Grads who do stuff from home. They do good work and find them much cheaper than going through a company. I'm happy to pass on email addresses if you PM me. How the arrangement works when I use them:
I tell them what I'm after, they knock something up with PROOF written through the image, if I'm happy I paypal them and they send me the finished image, if I want changes they make them.
I tell them what I'm after, they knock something up with PROOF written through the image, if I'm happy I paypal them and they send me the finished image, if I want changes they make them.
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Part of the problem is that the work is being undertaken in an environment where the artist isn't encouraged to put real effort into the work.
Ultimately they aren't sitting down and discussing your company and audience with you and taking the time to draft good ideas. They are just trying to churn out something that looks pretty and is vaguely relevant; as quickly as possible.
You can find a decent freelance artist who can create decent logo/brand designs for SME's for £100's. Surely the correct answer is to budget for it, save and do the job properly in the first instance.
The other problem with these sites is that a huge portion of the designs are ripped off or very closely "inspired" by someone elses logo. So you not only have a real risk of getting rubbish but also a real risk of getting a take down notice or getting sued.
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If you want to take branding seriously, I would strongly advise you to stay away from any of these sites and hire a professional logo designer. While these sites may look like a good option, they entirely miss the point.
Even though you are just looking for a logo, what you actually need is a brand, something that will add value to your business, a complete set of identity materials that are consistent across the board. Ultimately, a professional image allows you to raise your prices and increase your profit margin.
Now, here's the deal, be aware that a professional logo designer will charge anything between £1k-£20k depending on your exact needs, the size of your business, and how much work needs to be done.
If you can budget for that, I recommend doing that. If you can't, the next best advice is to keep it simple. You'll be way better off just by using a simple typography, such as Helvetica, as your logo, instead of paying £99 for it.
Why? At some point, you'll realize that you can't keep growing your business without re-branding it first. That's just how things are, and it will be a much easier job, if you have not yet defined a symbol, a color or a design style.
Even though you are just looking for a logo, what you actually need is a brand, something that will add value to your business, a complete set of identity materials that are consistent across the board. Ultimately, a professional image allows you to raise your prices and increase your profit margin.
Now, here's the deal, be aware that a professional logo designer will charge anything between £1k-£20k depending on your exact needs, the size of your business, and how much work needs to be done.
If you can budget for that, I recommend doing that. If you can't, the next best advice is to keep it simple. You'll be way better off just by using a simple typography, such as Helvetica, as your logo, instead of paying £99 for it.
Why? At some point, you'll realize that you can't keep growing your business without re-branding it first. That's just how things are, and it will be a much easier job, if you have not yet defined a symbol, a color or a design style.
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Suzuki
I knew that link in your signature was going to be a logo designer site before I even opened it
Typical sales pitch from a 'real' designer saying you need this or you need that... the simple fact is most visitors to your site/shop/business couldn't care less what your logo is or looks like. They want a good product at a fair price with minimum hassle and a suitable guarantee.... they aren't interested what colour the pretty little logo on their receipt is.
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I knew that link in your signature was going to be a logo designer site before I even opened it
Typical sales pitch from a 'real' designer saying you need this or you need that... the simple fact is most visitors to your site/shop/business couldn't care less what your logo is or looks like. They want a good product at a fair price with minimum hassle and a suitable guarantee.... they aren't interested what colour the pretty little logo on their receipt is.
Then why struggle to have a logo anyway?
Besides taking your money, we like to educate our clients
...but I guess you don't need that, right now 48hoursdesign is what you need. Later (if you're still in business) you will contact a real designer!Cheers
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I knew that link in your signature was going to be a logo designer site before I even opened it
Typical sales pitch from a 'real' designer saying you need this or you need that... the simple fact is most visitors to your site/shop/business couldn't care less what your logo is or looks like. They want a good product at a fair price with minimum hassle and a suitable guarantee.... they aren't interested what colour the pretty little logo on their receipt is.
Do you seriously believe that a companies brand image is meaningless?
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Of course I agree with the fact that brand image is important. But of course small companies are often selling the 'person' rather than the brand, and if so are probably better off spending the money in a professional photographer to take a good picture of the owner (and team if there is one), and making do with a font text logo.
Then when they move on they can invest in a slightly more advanced 'logo' perhaps the text in a block of colour and maybe even a circle with a lightning bolt.
Then when they move on they can invest in a slightly more advanced 'logo' perhaps the text in a block of colour and maybe even a circle with a lightning bolt.
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Suzuki
For most people, yes the logo is meaningless. Certainly for someone posting on a free business forum asking for free advice about a logo... for them a logo is definitely meaningless.
The only people who'll tell you otherwise, are people who want to sell you a logo (or web design).
Get a decent web site made, get a good product, make sure you price it fairly, make sure you have good customer service, make sure you have a better service than your competitors.... all a million times more important than who designed some stupid squiggle on your letterheads.
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When you say people do you mean businesses or consumers? And when you say most, who do you mean?
Lets say for example you had an organic range of skin care products, a brand image and product design is very important as your brand builds an emotional connection with consumers. Consumers may not conciously be aware of be messages they are getting, but they are getting them.
If you own a garden centre a proper brand design may not be that important. Or a local accountancy, or a flower shop.
Sorry I don't know whether the OP needs a good brand design, I don't know anything about their business and unless the OP has told you, neither do you.
I've stated that brand design is important, I have not and am not interested in selling the OP a logo design (or a web site).
That I can agree with. They might not even need a "good website" though, depends on what they do.
That depends on what the OP's business is and where they are headed, surely?
While I agree that some designers will work like that, there can be many legitimate reasons for asking questions like the size of a company.
For one, size can be indicative of expectation, can highlight needs (a larger companies needs may be the same at a basic level, can be quite different at a deeper level).
Some designers (I know quite a few) who are established will be very cautious of new/inexperienced companies as their inexperience can make them difficult to work with. I.e. due dilligence.
But in principal, I do agree. It can mean "how much can I charge".
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Missed the edit timeout. For clarity...
A local convenience store is going to have very different needs & expectations to a local supermarket, who will have very different needs to a local supermarket chain, who will have very different needs to a regional supermarket chain, who will of course have very different needs and expectations to a national supermarket brand.
A local convenience store is going to have very different needs & expectations to a local supermarket, who will have very different needs to a local supermarket chain, who will have very different needs to a regional supermarket chain, who will of course have very different needs and expectations to a national supermarket brand.
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Here's one thing to keep in mind about 99 Designs and other crowdsourced websites, they all prey on hundreds of designers who work for free, as only one, the winner, gets paid for his/her efforts. If you feel fine with exploring fellow human beings, go for it, but for what is worth, you're not going to get a good return anyway. Most of the participants of these sites are beginners, with very little experience to actually create something of value.
You are much better off hiring an actual freelance designer, someone that is professional and actually have the experience to help you make design choices that add value to your business, and these, come at a wide variety of prices. I recommend giving a try on Google search with the terms "logo designer freelancer" and perhaps the price range you are prepared to pay, some designers publicly display their price range on their sites.
Just a final quick advice, be upfront on how much you are looking to invest, that will save time for both, you and the designer. That's the usual market practice and a professional and experienced designer will either ask you about the budget right from the start, or let you know the range of budgets he/she is prepared to accept.
You are much better off hiring an actual freelance designer, someone that is professional and actually have the experience to help you make design choices that add value to your business, and these, come at a wide variety of prices. I recommend giving a try on Google search with the terms "logo designer freelancer" and perhaps the price range you are prepared to pay, some designers publicly display their price range on their sites.
Just a final quick advice, be upfront on how much you are looking to invest, that will save time for both, you and the designer. That's the usual market practice and a professional and experienced designer will either ask you about the budget right from the start, or let you know the range of budgets he/she is prepared to accept.
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It isn't compulsory for designers to enter you know and the consensus is that the designers aren't all amateurs at all. Knocking them doesn't sit well.
"how much you are looking to invest" - what a croc that is.
Elastic prices truly hurts the image of the industry and that is exactly why these £99 design places have boomed of late, because folk are tired of being taken for mugs by creative people who cannot articulate effort into a legitimate bill they can substantiate.
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Suzuki
This just reads like yet another designer getting all upset that sites like 99designs are actually forcing transactions to take place at market value, rather than whatever a designer can scam out of someone.
I assume you meant exploiting and not exploring? How exactly is anyone being exploited... nobody is forced to buy logos there and designers aren't forced to compete for jobs either.
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I find hard to understand what exactly you are trying to suggest with "what a croc that is". Defining a budget before looking for a professional service is pretty much what any reasonable person would do. Actually, we do that all the time in our lives, don't we? We first decide on how much we're prepared to pay, and only then we look for the products and services we're looking to buy.
Oh, and isn't pretty obvious that design is not a commodity? Designers, and actually, pretty much anyone within the creative industry is free to ask whatever they believe their work is worth. I find odd that you don't understand the difference between a commodity and a premium service.
But hey, what the heck I'm talking about? Even commodities are charged at a premium sometimes. Don't people pay a lot more for a branded good than a generic one. Oh, wait, why do they do that? Maybe because of the increased perceived value that is created by professional design? What do you think?
Well, as I said before, if one feels happy with exploiting fellow human beings, then one should do what one's will. For what is worth, that says a lot about one's character.
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There are two ways to look at this
1. exploitation
2. enabling
I think teh argument falls towards enabling, as it has enabled access to designers in very cheap locations and also has enable access to very cheap designs, that before the internet and these market places existed where just not available to small businesses that had no budget or access to major design studios.
I don't think the explotation arguamnet, of designer, stands up, as designers are not forced to compete on such a market.
There is however the possibiity of exploitation of the naievety of the small business in procuring such services, where the small business is perhaps paying too much for low quality work as they do not understand what they are getting. However as they say caveat emptor.
1. exploitation
2. enabling
I think teh argument falls towards enabling, as it has enabled access to designers in very cheap locations and also has enable access to very cheap designs, that before the internet and these market places existed where just not available to small businesses that had no budget or access to major design studios.
I don't think the explotation arguamnet, of designer, stands up, as designers are not forced to compete on such a market.
There is however the possibiity of exploitation of the naievety of the small business in procuring such services, where the small business is perhaps paying too much for low quality work as they do not understand what they are getting. However as they say caveat emptor.
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ChalkyJim
Never used the slave labour logo competition places, all done by kids in classes for £ 1 a week wages . So steered clear.
I use http://www.logo-experts.co.uk/ browse the library and then get them to change to suit, worked well so far , last one cost me £ 30 and i have the Vector files so its sizeable to infinity , so if i ever get rich and have a Jumbo jet, the logo can be blazened across the wings
i can dream can`t i ??
I use http://www.logo-experts.co.uk/ browse the library and then get them to change to suit, worked well so far , last one cost me £ 30 and i have the Vector files so its sizeable to infinity , so if i ever get rich and have a Jumbo jet, the logo can be blazened across the wings
i can dream can`t i ??
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Then why struggle to have a logo anyway?
Besides taking your money, we like to educate our clients
Cheers
Thanks for joining in and bringing some reason to the conversation!
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Your argument is well put, very reasonable, and I would easily agree with it if not for the fact that we differ on the understanding of "being forced".
Surely, no one is being subjugated under the fierce power of a whip to design for these crowdsourcing sites, or at least I hope that's not the case.
But those who chose to join in, do so mostly because they are being fooled into thinking that crowdsourcing is a good way to start their careers. That's just not true as the relationship client-designer is entirely distorted in the process. Also, as you point out, clients are being fooled into thinking they are getting quality work, when they are surely not, and most of them don't even know that.
Now, as more people join these sites, both as designers and as clients, the business model gets legitimated by the market, and then, those who are outside, refusing to take part on this disgraceful vicious circle will slowly but surely be forced to join in and offer their work for free.
The way I see it, we're all forced to do things we're not so keen on doing it from time to time. Sometimes that means going to a distant cousin's wedding you really don't care about, and some other times that means accepting a change in the market and then starting to work for free.
If you ask me, I draw the line at working for free
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Suzuki
And thats your big mistake - considering it working for free. Factor in the non successful jobs when you price the other ones.
If that doesn't earn you enough money, then tough. Market forces are setting the prices to what they should be.
If you were any good you could easily survive outside of the ecosystem of crowd sourcing sites and jobs without having to worry about them. The only people I see crying about them are people with a false sense of ability.
If that doesn't earn you enough money, then tough. Market forces are setting the prices to what they should be.
If you were any good you could easily survive outside of the ecosystem of crowd sourcing sites and jobs without having to worry about them. The only people I see crying about them are people with a false sense of ability.
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Since you are pointing out what you think is my biggest mistake, I hope you don't mind I point out what I think is your biggest mistake: not understanding the real damaging power of the crowdsourcing business model.
First, just so you know. I'm well established within my field with more than 10 years of experience with branding, marketing and advertising. I have a well developed network of contacts, and quite the opposite of what you may think, I have more work coming my way than I could handle by myself.
Also, I'm happy to say, none of it for free.
With that said, please, let me address the "non successful job" argument.
Yes, it does make sense, but only at a very superficial level. You only need to apply the crowdsourcing business model to a different market to see the error in reasoning. It's corrupted logic, in other words, a fallacy.
Should I hire 100 plumbers and only pay one? Should I hire 100 dentists and only pay the one I like the most? Should I hire 100 gardeners and only pay the one with the best result? Surely not, why? Either I like or not, these people are investing their own time and effort to do their job.
Why I'm so vocal against crowdsourcing? Well, I think it's evil and it should end before it completely destroys the design, and perhaps even other industries.
Last week I learned of a website called ScoopShoot which is now crowdsourcing photography. How many more industries are going to be destroyed before people realize that crowdsourcing only benefit the crowdsourcing pimp?
Oh, and markets are not always right, there was a time that slavery was considered a market force, does that makes it right? I don't think so.
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Suzuki
Evidently the crowd sourcing model works and works well - otherwise there wouldn't be so many designers happy to use it.
It might effectively mean UK, USA and a lot of other Western based designers are forced out of the market... but I would just say that is tough luck and it was always going to be the case for a product with electronic delivery and absolutely no need to ever meet the provider face to face.
If the numbers work for a designer and he's happy to do 20 'for free' jobs to get paid for 1... then whats the problem? It doesn't work for you personally so we should outlaw it all?
Also those 20 jobs he done that he didn't get paid for... he can recycle those designs later into further job bids / sell them from his own site / do whatever else he wants with them.
It might effectively mean UK, USA and a lot of other Western based designers are forced out of the market... but I would just say that is tough luck and it was always going to be the case for a product with electronic delivery and absolutely no need to ever meet the provider face to face.
If the numbers work for a designer and he's happy to do 20 'for free' jobs to get paid for 1... then whats the problem? It doesn't work for you personally so we should outlaw it all?
Also those 20 jobs he done that he didn't get paid for... he can recycle those designs later into further job bids / sell them from his own site / do whatever else he wants with them.
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Well, I could go on extending my argument a bit further, picking on the points you just mention above, but I think I've already made my point with my previous posts. We surely see things from different points-of-view, and well, that's fair. I don't see any reason to prolong this debate any further.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
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