Link Building strategy???

[OldWelshGuy]

Thats not what Google say. Google's official line is that a paid links isnt simply a paid link.....they say that there are two types of paid links. Those for genuine business commerce, and thos designed to manipulate search results.

"Not all paid links violate our guidelines. Buying and selling links is a normal part of the economy of the web when done for advertising purposes and not for manipulation of search results."

They also say that paid links (adverts) should be marked with nofollow As the Op says, this is now running into an SEO "whosdad" contest. He has sorted his query, so i am out of here now. Maybe a fresh thread should be started about paid links and what makes them breach the google guidelines.

We can then all compare dad sizes

 

[RedEvo]

Thats not what Google say. Google's official line is that a paid links isnt simply a paid link.....they say that there are two types of paid links. Those for genuine business commerce, and thos designed to manipulate search results.

"Not all paid links violate our guidelines. Buying and selling links is a normal part of the economy of the web when done for advertising purposes and not for manipulation of search results."

Selective quoting is dangerous. Listen to what OWG is saying and read that Google page about SEO in it's entirety, it's crystal clear

d

 

[eventdomain]

All these link dropping tools are heavily geared towards very general sites, NOT the key websites where the industry visitors are hanging out at, and is where you should be concentrating your sales drive.

 

[OldWelshGuy]

All these link dropping tools are heavily geared towards very general sites, NOT the key websites where the industry visitors are hanging out at, and is where you should be concentrating your sales drive.

E.D we have already discussed in this thread that the tools should be used on bespoke lists created by the site owner. So there is no gearing towards general sites at all.

Also please understand, that this disussion (as set out by the original post) is exclusively about link building for the benefits of ranking and nothing at all to do with marketing specifically for human footfall. (Although many sites will do both, such as kelly search for example).

The marketing to humans for traffic is a completely different thread (other than the crossover mentioned)

 

[eventdomain]

is exclusively about link building for the benefits of ranking and nothing at all to do with marketing specifically for human footfall.

Its marketing and directing human traffic mate. The same result/goal of ALL links = human footfall. So it is about footfall, as only humans can physically make purchases.

There is a direct correlation between SERP listings and human contact - which must lead to human sales. The SERPS are weblinks, humans click these and humans are footfall.

OWG, mate - Link building for ranking sake is pointless - and you still dont get it do you, so much so, you believe I'm talking off-topic, I'm not.

There must be a human factor behind the entire point of getting links, whether its directory, website, forum and SERP links - if not, your all wasting your time being visible on the web.

 

[MASSEY]

This topic is about building links to improve rank WHERE THE PEOPLE / TRAFFIC IS.

What your suggesting ed is nonsense.

Where are you saying the people looking for plumber and tradesmen in general "hangout".

They dont hangout anywhere but but search engines. Not shiity directories and if they do go to a directory they will 99.99999% use a SE to get there.

Your making the same mistakes most marketers make applying the same setup to everything and not assessing things individually.

 

[G. Lasagne]

This topic is about building links to improve rank WHERE THE PEOPLE / TRAFFIC IS.

What your suggesting ed is nonsense.

Where are you saying the people looking for plumber and tradesmen in general "hangout".

They dont hangout anywhere but but search engines. Not shiity directories and if they do go to a directory they will 99.99999% use a SE to get there.

Your making the same mistakes most marketers make applying the same setup to everything and not assessing things individually.

I have to agree, link building for SE ranking is the only link building worth doing, Rankings=Traffic=Money(providing your site converts) or am i missing the point?

Getting back on topic

In what order of importance would you put these activities(for link building only)?

1.Directory link
2.recipricol links
3.articles on your blog
4.Articles from your blog submitted to article sites etc
5.Relevant high pr blog comments
6.Social bookmarking of your site pages
7.Social bookmarking of your blog posts
8.internal linking
9.Other (please explain)

I have limited time so want to use it wisely, Thanks

To Mods: feel free to delete this post im going to start it as a new thread.

 

[OldWelshGuy]

Its marketing and directing human traffic mate. The same result/goal of ALL links = human footfall. So it is about footfall, as only humans can physically make purchases.

There is a direct correlation between SERP listings and human contact - which must lead to human sales. The SERPS are weblinks, humans click these and humans are footfall.

OWG, mate - Link building for ranking sake is pointless - and you still dont get it do you, so much so, you believe I'm talking off-topic, I'm not.

There must be a human factor behind the entire point of getting links, whether its directory, website, forum and SERP links - if not, your all wasting your time being visible on the web.

You are completely wrong. The guy who started this thread is discussing link building to improve rankings. I am not saying that what you say is rubbish, I am saying it is not relevant to this particular thread.

the HUMAN FACTOR is that when HUMANS search on google they see the site at Number 1 for that search term. They are not for 1 nanosecond interested in where that site got its links from to propell it to the numbver one spot, in fact they simply believe that if google decides to place a site at number 1 then the site must be good. AND, providing the site is well optimised to convert traffic into actions (whatever the outcome may be, sales, enquiries, form filling etc, ) then the task has been a success.

it doesn't matter whether a human being ever sees the anchor pages that carry the links that got the page to the #1 spot on google, the links are merely the petrol that drove the icecream van to the street where the hungry kids are with the money to buy ice cream

 

[eventdomain]

The guy who started this thread is discussing link building to improve rankings

ye, obvious mate.

I am saying it is not relevant to this particular thread.

Ok, how can I say this in lamens terms, er - SERPS are listings invented for people to locate websites. Thus, the point of having them is to stand out in SE's which is your website promotion side of things. The user sees you and clicks - thus we have human contact eg: a clickthrough.

Its impossible for me to be wrong, as people create websites to be found, thus are automatically indexed and set themselves up in such places (eg: search engines) which in turn are created to attract human visitors. Nobody can get away from any human presense or action - its what drives the web, is the web and is what provides the sales.

They are not for 1 nanosecond interested in where that site got its links from

Well, I dont know where you got that from, but you never got it from me.

But maybe your right, so they dont care where links come from - fine, but its a major factor in ranking and website owners will!

Where are you saying the people looking for plumber and tradesmen in general "hangout".

Massey - the web doesnt belong to tradespeople, the web is a b2b marketplace - thats what it is truly built for. Before biz's jumped all over the web, it was a resource for the education sector.

B2c promotion services crept in during the last few years and although there's a few places for trades sites now, 4 years ago, there was bugger all. Over the years I've seen many confused about where to advertise, and it mostly comes from newbies, tradespeople, money makers and start-ups, and they all think that this web is set up for them - its not! The SE's like Google are really for large corporates, seriously, who else can really afford £3.00 a click to drive 10'000 people to them at a time - think about it! Thats £30k Massey, and I dont think many have that just to blow on advertising a month.

So, we suddenly got a ton of service biz owners all panicking bcos they struggle to find enough places to advertise at reasonable cost. If there were that many sites for plumbers/tradespeople, they'd all stand out wouldn't they. They cant stand out in the SE's, hence all the competitors battling each other, but there's nothing apart from SE's, links swaps and directories.

SE's are riddled with too much junk, Directories are questionable and no bugger wants to link swap anymore.

Needle in a haystack is very appropriate, and it aint going to change anytime soon. It will get worse before it gets better.

 

[OldWelshGuy]

Chris we are arguing about the same thing. I am not really sure what you are trying to argue over here. You are contradicting yourself in your argument so I think I will just stop trying to explain what I am saying here as it is a waste of my time, and just clogs the thread up

 

[Colin Parker]

Had a look at this and it looks good, only thing i will say is that it is for 3 keywords only, so once those keywords are number 1 is the package then useless?

The idea of Rank Warrior is that you choose 3 keywords to optimise for each $67-$97 package you buy. Its a one off payment but they have just introduced a maintenance package where for $57 a month they will keep otimising your chosen keywords to maintain/improve rankings. They say they are only selling 100 of those at that price.

Without doubt this is the best - and least - money I have ever spent on outsourcing SEO. I have my own experienced SEO but there are so many keywords I want to optimise that it was either employ someone else or give outsourcing a try. I stumbled across Rank Warrior by accident and the results have been incredible. Best $67 I've ever spent on any type of SEO or internet marketing tools/info.

 

[MASSEY]

*puts ED on ignore for chatting rubbish as per usual.

 

[fisicx]

Massey - the web doesnt belong to tradespeople, the web is a b2b marketplace - thats what it is truly built for. Before biz's jumped all over the web, it was a resource for the education sector.

Really? The web began life as a military resource. b2b didn't arrived until very much later, long after it was being used as a social networking tool and information source. It's was certainly not built for b2b.

(Sorry for going off topic)

 

[OldWelshGuy]

It was built to allow communications to continue should a nuke attack happen. The contry that can communicate rebuilds the fastest!
but hey, why worry about facts, thjis is an interweb forum

 

[Surbhee]

Try using services like AMA, seolinkvine, submityourarticle etc. They are very good for link building. They give permanent one way links and just cost an article and its spinning for the same. If you do not want to buy all the subscriptions for them, I can help you in that

 

[eventdomain]

OWG & fisicx - Dont be silly now - this is taken from Wikipedia and it mentions nothing about Military use:

"The World-Wide Web was developed to be a pool of human knowledge, and human culture,

When I ventured onto the web in 2002, it was nothing but a bunch of educational articles, get rich quick websites and scams. Scams like how to get rich in 10 days Corey Rudl, Stephen Ducharme and a bunch of Guru crap - thats what the web was!

A few major companies were just venturing onto the web, followed quickly by the masses of b2bs. Might not of been 'built' for that purpose originally, but as time progressed it did. Then the 'me too' websites started to appear and the rest is history.

 

[fisicx]

OWG & fisicx - Dont be silly now - this is taken from Wikipedia and it mentions nothing about Military use:

My mistake, I used the term web when I should have used Internet (WWW and Internet are not the same thing).

Try this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet

The origins of the Internet reach back to research of the 1960s, commissioned by the United States government in collaboration with private commercial interests to build robust, fault-tolerant, and distributed computer networks....The IPTO's purpose was to find ways to address the US military's concern about survivability of their communications networks, and as a first step interconnect their computers

And then: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newsgroups

The first moderated newsgroups appeared in 1984

And for the full timeline: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2235

The WWW is a very recent addition to the internet.

My drug of choice is factual research

 

[eventdomain]

Getting back on topic

In what order of importance would you put these activities(for link building only)?

1.Directory link
2.recipricol links
3.articles on your blog
4.Articles from your blog submitted to article sites etc
5.Relevant high pr blog comments
6.Social bookmarking of your site pages
7.Social bookmarking of your blog posts
8.internal linking
9.Other (please explain)

I have limited time so want to use it wisely, Thanks

The above? none of it except for some established directories, mainly as these will get searched far more than a some webmaster article bank ever will.

Recips, unless your planning to obtain 10k of em, its mostly not worth doing anymore. I dont think many will link back, certainly not in the UK anyway.

Try the US - its a bigger country and you may get some links out of it.

Web space is worth ££££ now - serious cash in links these days, too much for such sites to just give links for free.

 

[terryuk]

The above? none of it except for some established directories, mainly as these will get searched far more than a some webmaster article bank ever will.

Recips, unless your planning to obtain 10k of em, its mostly not worth doing anymore. I dont think many will link back, certainly not in the UK anyway.

Try the US - its a bigger country and you may get some links out of it.

Web space is worth ££££ now - serious cash in links these days, too much for such sites to just give links for free.

NAMES are worth ££££ - web space is ten a penny. Although I don't know the requirements of your busy website.

You rely on link exchange apparently, and are oblivious to any other method than this. :|

 

[G. Lasagne]

eventdomain - From the debates i see you involved in, it seems that you look at internet marketing a different way than the majority which is a good thing defiantely, can you share what your strategy towards online marketing and such like.

 

[G. Lasagne]

The above? none of it except for some established directories, mainly as these will get searched far more than a some webmaster article bank ever will.

.

Can you expand on established directories, whe i search my keywords the only directories i see on the front page are freeindex,yell and maybe one or twor more, are you saying its worth getting listed on other directories other than these even if they dont appear in the SE for your keywords?
Also is the idea of the article sites not to give you inbound links, from relative content i.e your article and not just for traffic?

 

[MASSEY]

Can you expand on established directories, whe i search my keywords the only directories i see on the front page are freeindex,yell and maybe one or twor more, are you saying its worth getting listed on other directories other than these even if they dont appear in the SE for your keywords?
Also is the idea of the article sites not to give you inbound links, from relative content i.e your article and not just for traffic?

Any article you make for the niche of electircians and plumbers online is not for traffic it's for pure search manipulation not traffic there isn't enough volume.

While yes there are people looking for our service there arent anywhere near as many as their will be in the coming years.

Getting listed in directories gives you a little boost there loads. Sites like http://www.directoryworld.net/index.php?c=41 are brilliant for getting links and improving sites for local search terms.

All i can say is look at the backlinks of sites like thservices.co.uk you will get all the informtion you need there.

 

[eventdomain]

Can you expand on established directories, whe i search my keywords the only directories i see on the front page are freeindex,yell and maybe one or twor more, are you saying its worth getting listed on other directories other than these even if they dont appear in the SE for your keywords?
Also is the idea of the article sites not to give you inbound links, from relative content i.e your article and not just for traffic?

Ye, ofcourse - there's a ton of established industry-based dirs available - a basic search should throw something up. Actually, the decent ones are more like portals these days - but anything thats being going for more than 1 year should do fine and will stand out no problem anyway.

Article sites? now there are lots of 'sites' displaying articles which are very good, high profile and all that, but you need to be careful where you plonk your articles, as many article banks are used for article spamming and link dropping. The decent sites wont allow this junk - period, tend to collect their own content, wont invite submissions and are real deal types.

The amount of links you'll need to beat your entire competitor base is in the thousands. Your articles will need to be original, and to write each one by hand is too much work. I dont think 10 or 20 articles here and there will 'cut it' anymore, as the freebie/easy listing sites only deal in fast crapola junk, so the return aint going to be there - pretty simple stuff actually.

Perhaps you think your article will get picked up and go viral? Well, articles are very old hat, so the web has changed in how it promotes, and everyone is using video now or blogs and now we have phone-apps, so why bother with articles. Plus to get onto anything decent will cost you ££££££, and I suspect that a good video will get on something for free, over some self-promotional link drop. Actually, having done this myself big-time, I know its possible to do....

Happy videoing....

 

[eventdomain]

eventdomain - From the debates i see you involved in, it seems that you look at internet marketing a different way than the majority which is a good thing defiantely, can you share what your strategy towards online marketing and such like.

See my strategy wont work with the membership here, their websites aren't matchable to my methods er, not designed to work with shop window sites. Eg: search engines use viral techniques, which arent 'acceptable' for offline businesses. Its just the way things are.

But there are a few things that may work for you. Video is good, blogging works quite well, and perhaps more content marketing is an option for offline businesses, although your set up costs will be quite high, er, to do this properly. I feel offline biz's should go the content route - but use another website to do this, then it will be more 'acceptable' to the user - then link the content site to your main service.

You rely on link exchange apparently, and are oblivious to any other method than this. :|

No way, I could dump my link pages with no worries whatsoever. My traffic comes from years of bookmarks and one-way links.

NAMES are worth ££££ - web space is ten a penny

Its not the name so much when it comes down to 'web marketing' - its more the site information that comes first. The name is important, but its more of a 'staying in people's minds' thing.

For an offline biz, you need content of some kind for people to read and refer people to - but its got to be the right type of content. I keep seeing people rave about 'building a site for the user' and I agree with it totally.

 

[terryuk]

Its not the name so much when it comes down to 'web marketing' - its more the site information that comes first. The name is important, but its more of a 'staying in people's minds' thing.

For an offline biz, you need content of some kind for people to read and refer people to - but its got to be the right type of content. I keep seeing people rave about 'building a site for the user' and I agree with it totally.

Yeah obviously the Internet is running out of good names. So names can be more expensive than web space. I agree but you were going on about how expensive web space is, and now gone completely gone off rail.

 

[eventdomain]

I agree but you were going on about how expensive web space is, and now gone completely gone off rail.

I fail to see how answering your questions suddenly made me go off-rail :| You asked questions - I answered.

Well, web space IS expensive, its not cheap cheap. I think where many go wrong is to think they can 'link build' on the cheap, and it cannot be done in these times. 7 years ago, it was so easy as everyone was linking with everyone - out of kindness eg:

here friend, you got a nice site, have a link on me

and they likely got a link back too, as people were into seeing who's linking to em bcos of all that charming friendliness and trust and excitment about plonking links onto their sites cos it looks cool man..... - now, lol - forget that.

But now, you're looking at £60, £100..... etc, even £3000 for just text links on some of these sites. I actually phoned MSN.co.uk, and they wanted £1500 for a text link - minimum! also spoke to a NTL sales rep who wanted £3000 for link on the homepage for 1 month.

Its just crazy, so I guess people cant be blamed for seeking the odd freebie, and I dont refuse them myself you know... but I know its not something to be relied on, as one minute you got 500 links, the next you lost em all - it happended to me, except I lost 40'000 worth.

I think you need a 2nd website, to accumulate content, in the hope it gets linked to, and the content pages picked up, people begin talking about the site, so you get more links and so on. If content is good and plentiful, you will get links, its just a matter of the right type of site to begin with. What is popular, what is cool right now, you got to be careful not to blindly copy a dumb idea nor do something thats done 500 times already - which is media suicide straight away.

I believe most websites with enough content thats updated regularly, will see links. But you cant be a plumber with DIY guides on the same site, it looks weird, strange - sort of unacceptable. But keep a guide as a seperate site or even blog maybe, and you wont mess up your main site, and keeping it professional, to the point - you know.... Most businesses are NOT portals, so dont act like one... you want links, then you need a website specifically designed to capture links. But for plumbers, they need to get into house owners minds right, so what about a website all about Plumbing eg: http://www.thehousedirectory.com/ that kind of thing, but for Plumbing.

Now that House dir has about 3,651 links - it aint bad.. Dunno what the traffic is like, but it probably gets a shed load of visitors.

Now I'm not saying all rush off and start portals, but content is king where search engines are concerned. So a good blog stuffed with hints and tips is great start and can be set up for £200, on-site SEO yourself and stuff it with images and things. You could have a resource page like most sites have, give it some headings and wack in the original content, ask people to add tips, share it with friends, wack up a bookmark us link, basically give people a good reason to mention it.

 

[G. Lasagne]

That makes sense Tbh, the only thing I don't agree with is " don't offer DIY tips on your own site" everyone I speak to agrees that hosting a blog on your own domain as apposed to on anothernsite is best for seo, I don't post DIY guides as such, more advice.

Can you name some of the directories you have had success with, and do you recommend a premium listing on these directories?

 

[MASSEY]

That makes sense Tbh, the only thing I don't agree with is " don't offer DIY tips on your own site" everyone I speak to agrees that hosting a blog on your own domain as apposed to on anothernsite is best for seo, I don't post DIY guides as such, more advice.

Can you name some of the directories you have had success with, and do you recommend a premium listing on these directories?

You don't believe that garbage do you?

 

[G. Lasagne]

errrrm i agree and disagree, at the end of the day im a plumber first and foremost and thats what i spend most of my time doing, the online marketing is an interest and a neccessity as its where most of my work comes from and thats only going to increase.
I already think ispend too much time on seo etc, so i need tactics/strategies that are going to make best use of time.


Do you think bearing in mind how uncompetitive a lot of my terms are , that 3 blog posts a week with those keywords and then promote those posts/articles vis social bookmaring sites and do follow article sites, would beenough of a strategy?

 

[eventdomain]

that 3 blog posts a week with those keywords and then promote those posts/articles vis social bookmaring sites and do follow article sites, would beenough of a strategy?

It will help quite a bit. I make about 60 'non-content' blog posts a year alone..... - thats 60 extra weblinks working for me in the SERPS. Am now considering a 2nd blog or 4th info site, with on-target, cracking content (some copied and some original) and using this as a link builder and traffic driver.

But I'm not going to spam keywords into it, as I want it to be clean, solid valuable info - this is what people want. Ive noticed a lot more 'guide type websites' being developed now, and blogging is huge as we know - theres even search engines that list blog sites eg: Technorati...... so it obviously works or a search engine wouldnt have been created to handle it all.

Blogging is safe, inexpensive, returns fast results and can be monetised - nothing wrong with it,as long as its done properly! The blog/content site idea must be solid and popular enough for it to work.

 

[G. Lasagne]

It will help quite a bit. I make about 60 'non-content' blog posts a year alone..... - thats 60 extra weblinks working for me in the SERPS. Am now considering a 2nd blog or 4th info site, with on-target, cracking content (some copied and some original) and using this as a link builder and traffic driver.

But I'm not going to spam keywords into it, as I want it to be clean, solid valuable info - this is what people want. Ive noticed a lot more 'guide type websites' being developed now, and blogging is huge as we know - theres even search engines that list blog sites eg: Technorati...... so it obviously works or a search engine wouldnt have been created to handle it all.

Blogging is safe, inexpensive, returns fast results and can be monetised - nothing wrong with it,as long as its done properly! The blog/content site idea must be solid and popular enough for it to work.

Thats my thinking, can you explain what you mean by "non-content"
blog posts?
Cheers

 

[denysaputra]

Use link wheel to build link is good choice, also do forum posting that put link in the signature, article directory submission, and blog commenting.

 

[spiritusuk]

.

When you report sites for link buying though, you often see them and their link sellers all getting nailed at the same time.

But what would happen if you bought a lot of links for your competitor's website ? Would they get nailed ?

That's why I struggle to believe that Google penalise off site SEO,

 

[eventdomain]

But what would happen if you bought a lot of links for your competitor's website ? Would they get nailed ?

Buying links isnt a crime. But its all a load of hogwash, mainly as nobody has the right to tell you where you can and cannot buy ads with your money.

You cannot be sent to prison for this - I guarantee it.

 

[fisicx]

But what would happen if you bought a lot of links for your competitor's website ? Would they get nailed ?

Possibly but if they did get nailed it wouldn't take long for them to prove it was someone else doing the dirty and ranking would be reinstated. They would then no doubt investigate who was being naughty.

In any case, buying links is a perfectly acceptable marketing method. It's called advertising. What isn't acceptable (to Google) is buying links to artificially boost ranking, most are easily detected and and ignored during indexing. Others get reported and acted upon, plenty of evidence if you do a bit of digging.

 

[Hogrill]

I had a look at a competitors site yesterday to see if there were any links I could pick up and found links coming from about 20 x 1 page sites all on different topics e.g. Gold mining. Each site then had a couple of paragraphs written about the subject followed by a resource section with a link back too my competitors site using keywords which bear no connection to the sites main topic.

There were also links to other companies in different market sectors so I guess these sites were created by an SEO company to help their customers rankings.

What would Googles view be on this?

 

[OldWelshGuy]

Buying links isnt a crime. But its all a load of hogwash, mainly as nobody has the right to tell you where you can and cannot buy ads with your money.

You cannot be sent to prison for this - I guarantee it.

Agreed, you can not be sent to jail, but you can be thrown out of the Google index. (ask JC penny).

As for no-one having the right to tell you where you can and can't buy ads, I agree 100% , but also consider that no-one has the right to be included in the Google index.

@spiritusuk. When google apply a manual penalty they do so looking at everything, and not just 1 thing in isolation. If the on page SEO is crammed solid, and if the site has an overall spammy link footprint, with no authority links at all, and no real quality to its backlinks, then there is every possibility it will get nailed. If on the other hand the site has been around for ages, has steadily built links, all natural looking links, and then a load of spam appears, a site like that will probably be immune from Google bowling (Taking a competitor out by using black hat or spammy methods against their site)

Once a site is established it is almost impossible to google bowl it out.

 

[OldWelshGuy]

I had a look at a competitors site yesterday to see if there were any links I could pick up and found links coming from about 20 x 1 page sites all on different topics e.g. Gold mining. Each site then had a couple of paragraphs written about the subject followed by a resource section with a link back too my competitors site using keywords which bear no connection to the sites main topic.

There were also links to other companies in different market sectors so I guess these sites were created by an SEO company to help their customers rankings.

What would Googles view be on this?

I would guess they were created by a link selling company rather than an SEO company. These are the sort of links that google frowns upon, but mostly they are dealt with algorithmically (that is to say with no manual intervention), but occasionally, entire networks are taken out, and this causes a tsunami for the sites involved.