license

[FranIrish]

Can anybody tell me if they ever licensed a new product and what kind of protection it gives.
I have developed a a product that is not on the market but I cant afford to patented it. Is licensing a product a good or bad idea?

 

[MOIC]

A good idea.

Get a competent lawyer with experience involved.

What research have you done (if any) to the potential customers you want to license to?

Can the factory supply the quantities that may be involved?

Have you tested the product?

There a many questions that will need answering.

 

[FranIrish]

Thank you for that. I have done a shed load of research and my product is without doubt not on the market. I have given away samples, all came back with positive results. I make it from my home but ideally I want a large company to get involved as I don't have the capacity to mass produce. Plus it would need more testing to adhere to government standards.

 

[MOIC]

I make it from my home but ideally I want a large company to get involved as I don't have the capacity to mass produce. Plus it would need more testing to adhere to government standards.

You've got a long way to go, before you can think of licensing the product.

 

[FranIrish]

Yes indeed. But the one thing we all have right now is time.

 

[Panoramix IP]

What is it you will be licensing if you don’t have a patent? I would say that your chances of licensing the product are slim if you do not protect it first. You say you cannot afford to patent the invention. There are options to keep patent costs to a manageable amount in the early days.

 

[FranIrish]

What is it you will be licensing if you don’t have a patent? I would say that your chances of licensing the product are slim if you do not protect it first. You say you cannot afford to patent the invention. There are options to keep patent costs to a manageable amount in the early days.

it is a body product for a particular condition. Can you tell me more about keeping the costs down?

 

[fisicx]

it is a body product for a particular condition.

Has it been through the rigorous testing needed for it to be sold? If you want to license the product it needs to be fully approved.

 

[Panoramix IP]

You will 100% need a patent if you want to license this type of product. Costs can be kept down by working with a provider that is set up to help start ups. I offer this for clients in the physical sciences field. I don’t do chemical and formulation work so cannot help you directly but I can point you in the direction of a couple of firms/individuals who can help you out. PM me if that would be useful.

 

[Mr D]

Can anybody tell me if they ever licensed a new product and what kind of protection it gives.
I have developed a a product that is not on the market but I cant afford to patented it. Is licensing a product a good or bad idea?

If you cannot afford to have it patented then what happens if someone else patents it in their name?

Presumably you could not afford a legal battle either.

 

[Panoramix IP]

Thank you for that. I have done a shed load of research and my product is without doubt not on the market. I have given away samples, all came back with positive results. I make it from my home but ideally I want a large company to get involved as I don't have the capacity to mass produce. Plus it would need more testing to adhere to government standards.

Coming back to your earlier posts, you would not actually be able to obtain a "valid" patent in many countries, including the UK and Europe, as you have given away samples. One of the basic requirements for a patent to be granted is that its subject matter is novel as of the first filing date. Giving away a sample would be novelty destroying as the product could easily be reverse engineered. The patent offices are unlikely to become aware of the sample giveaways but in some countries, notably the United States, you would have an obligation to inform the US Patent Office that you had made a disclosure. Some countries, again including the United States, provide a 12 month period to validly file a patent application after disclosure by the inventor.

Perhaps the bigger problem is that if you try and license your product you will almost certainly be asked to provide a warranty to the effect that you are not aware of anything that would prevent you from patenting the product. If you make that warranty you will immediately be in breach of that warranty.

I would say to all start ups that they should consult with a good intellectual property lawyer right at the outset of their venture and then stay engaged. The money that you think you might save by doing stuff yourself is rarely a cost saving at all. In my experience, in 80% of cases start ups screw up their IP when they do not get competent advice right at the start. Sure, there are some exceptions but is it really worth risking failure by scrimping over a few hundreds or thousands of pounds?

 

[prophet01]

@FranIrish

Can anybody tell me if they ever licensed a new product and what kind of protection it gives.
I have developed a product that is not on the market but I cant afford to patented it. Is licensing a product a good or bad idea?

Oh bugger... Kevin's posted whilst I was drafting the below. Regardless, I think it's still worth posting. Kevin's a patent attorney by the way so I'd definitely take what he has into serious consideration.

Whilst I've not licensed a product... yet, I have a granted UK patent which I might or might not license in the near future. Without a patent you have no entitlement to take legal action against any third party who might copy/manufacture/sell your product and neither would any entity you might manage to license it to. (Happy to stand corrected if this is wrong but it's my understanding)

Having been down this road I would advise you to speak with several patent attorneys to initially establish the patentability of your product and to also obtain quotations. You might be able to agree a payment structure allowing staged payments to be made for their work which will span over years.

If you're still unable to pay on this basis I would then advise patience and save up until you are able to afford it. If you have confidence in your product it will be worth the wait.

 

[FranIrish]

Thank you guys you have been a great help.
I actually told the samplers the product was for something else. like if smell was tolerable.
Some people don't like the smell of certain essential oils so I put different oils in the product and choose the one they liked best.
I was also judging the safety of it. I never disclosed. what it was for I have been down that road before and my idea was stolen
HOWEVER After reading your replies I will now get myself a patent attorney and hope he goes easy on me.

 

[fisicx]

And make sure you get the product tested and approved for medical use. Without this you will only ever be limited to selling a homemade product.

 

[Mr D]

Thank you guys you have been a great help.
I actually told the samplers the product was for something else. like if smell was tolerable.
Some people don't like the smell of certain essential oils so I put different oils in the product and choose the one they liked best.
I was also judging the safety of it. I never disclosed. what it was for I have been down that road before and my idea was stolen
HOWEVER After reading your replies I will now get myself a patent attorney and hope he goes easy on me.

Do not just go with what people like best - look at product research.
See what scents other people sell - that is more than what people tell you they like, what is being purchased.
Look at ice cream - lots of people say they like this or that flavour - vanilla still sells really well.
What they say and what they do - not necessarily the same.

 

[FranIrish]

And make sure you get the product tested and approved for medical use. Without this you will only ever be limited to selling a homemade product.

I will Thank you.

 

[prophet01]

...I have developed a product that is not on the market but I cant afford to patented it...

...
HOWEVER After reading your replies I will now get myself a patent attorney...

So it wasn't that you couldn't afford to pay for a patent attorney but that you didn't want to pay for one.
Now you know that you can't afford not to pay for one.
That's progress

 

[Panoramix IP]

So it wasn't that you couldn't afford to pay for a patent attorney but that you didn't want to pay for one.
Now you know that you can't afford not to pay for one.
That's progress

That is unfortunately a common theme that I see. It isn’t helped by many patent attorneys charging exorbitant fees that, in my opinion, cannot be justified. As a guide, you should expect to pay no more than £3,000 for a straight forward invention, possibly less if it is really simple. That might still sound a lot but you are paying for the many years of training and experience that a patent attorney will have amassed and the potential long term value from having it done properly which could be to the tune of hundreds of thousands or even millions of pounds. Some firms will try and charge between £5-10k. That can be justified in some cases but for a start up almost certainly not.

as Prophet01 says, shop around. Choose a patent attorney who you get a good vibe from as you will be working with that person for a number of years. Don’t be afraid to speak to several patent attorneys. They should understand that is important for you to make the right choice and spend some time discussing your options with you at no cost.

There is also a scheme called IP Pro Bono where those who genuinely CANNOT AFFORD to pay for IP advice can get assistance. You might also want to look at local grants. Maybe contact your local Enterprise Europe Network representative.

I hope this helps.

 

[FranIrish]

Thank you for that and you are so right. I hadn't realized that until now..

 

[fisicx]

I will Thank you.

Had someone here a while back doing something similar. They were getting quotes of £50K for full testing and approval. I think it included medical trials to ensure there were no side effects.

 

[The Byre]

In my experience, in 80% of cases start ups screw up their IP when they do not get competent advice right at the start. Sure, there are some exceptions but is it really worth risking failure by scrimping over a few hundreds or thousands of pounds?

Not just patents - trademarks, copyright, and just general awareness of basic contract law gets pushed to one side until it is too late. This is most noticeable in the UK where there is a have-a-go attitude to the idea of starting a business.

It is one of my pet peeves that people enter the world of business without preparing themselves. i.e. they do not educate themselves on legal, tax, or bookkeeping matters or even the basic economics of running a business. It's all part of that general idea of failing to prepare = prepare to fail!

 

[FranIrish]

Thank you all for so much detail. I really appreciated it.