Lazy employee

[theroo]

Hi all, just wondering if I could get some sound advice on this

The issue is this. I have a staff member with a few recurring issues that have cropped up in the last year (since he began actually)

1) Mobile phone usage - constantly on his phone, always hiding and using his phone (also probably related to number 3) - i have talked to him about it on numerous occasions, so instead he just finds ways to use it without me seeing.
2) Doesn't do anything in the shop unless I tell him to.
3) Always goes to the toilet (especially when we are busy)

But most importantly, he's been off at least once a month since he started. I calculated 12 days, which is 7.5% of all his working time

Then last month he told me he had depression and took 3 weeks off (with a doctors note), he came back and I have had a back to work interview with him, and he is going to get therapy but that hasn't started yet. After 2 weeks back to work, he is taking days off again (but this time for depression)

To be honest, I have no issues with mental illness if it's genuine. I would really want to support it and hope he gets better. However, I only have 3 staff in the shop and I've had to bring in two temporary part timers to cover for him and initially I gave them 2 month contracts, but now I am in a bit of a lurch with them as well! Ultimately I almost feel like I am being held ransom by him and it's inconveniencing all my staff as a result, who, by the way, also have noticed his lazy behaviour before the depression episode and also complained to me about it.

I have talked to him about the issues 1 and 2 and 3 above on a fairly regular basis (probably 4 to 5 times) but as I said, issue 1 has improved but not gone away, (2) is still the same. However, I have never formally issued him a disciplinary warning, it's always been a more casual chat about these issues.

After reading the forums and looking at the advice other people have given, I can probably dismiss him based on his working issues, but in a way, the timing is awful for him if the depression is serious. I saw on another thread how much it dragged on when you try to play the nice guy...! And I am getting very short of patience after all these months of him slacking off anyway.

 

[Newchodge]

You can ask him for permission to approach his doctor for a report on his health, however if you do that, and the doctor's report states that the depression is likely to be long term, you may find it harder to deal with the issue as he would be protected under the equalities act.

I would talk to him about the other issues and give a first stage warning under your disciplinary procedure, which I hope you have.

With regard to the absences I would talk to him separately, ask if he is struggling and offer him reduced hours until he feels able to attend properly. Obviously on reduced pay. But if he fails to attend on those reduced hours you will take disciplinary action.

Or tell him it is not working out, stress the issues that are unrelated to the depression and dismiss him, with full contractual notice and outstanding holiday pay.

 

[theroo]

Thanks Newchodge, appreciate it

 

[Cromulent]

As someone who has suffered from mental illness before if this depression is legitimate then giving him an official warning is likely to make his depression worse.

Plus don't forget that one of the symptoms of depression is:

• having no motivation or interest in things

This might be why he isn't pulling his weight at work. He might also be finding it hard to concentrate or deal with people. If he has been signed off work by his doctor, then this is real, and you need to take that into account.

 

[Newchodge]

As someone who has suffered from mental illness before if this depression is legitimate then giving him an official warning is likely to make his depression worse.

Plus don't forget that one of the symptoms of depression is:

• having no motivation or interest in things

This might be why he isn't pulling his weight at work. He might also be finding it hard to concentrate or deal with people. If he has been signed off work by his doctor, then this is real, and you need to take that into account.

While I agree with the principle of what you say, the employee is no longer signed off work so hopefully, the depression is under a degree of control.

An employer has to choose whether to support someone at a potentially high cost to their business out of philanthropy, or to put the interests of the business and, potentially, the other employees, first.

 

[Cromulent]

While I agree with the principle of what you say, the employee is no longer signed off work so hopefully, the depression is under a degree of control.

An employer has to choose whether to support someone at a potentially high cost to their business out of philanthropy, or to put the interests of the business and, potentially, the other employees, first.

My point was that he has been officially diagnosed with depression as he had time off with a signed doctors note. If he were fired after that came to light (which it has), he might have a case for unfair dismissal based on a recognised disability. It depends on the situation.

Don't be so sure that just because someone turns up for work that everything is OK with them. Depression medication, for instance, takes about six weeks to start working.

 

[Mr D]

My point was that he has been officially diagnosed with depression as he had time off with a signed doctors note. If he were fired after that came to light (which it has), he might have a case for unfair dismissal based on a recognised disability. It depends on the situation.

Don't be so sure that just because someone turns up for work that everything is OK with them. Depression medication, for instance, takes about six weeks to start working.

You'd hope someone on depression would be off for the 6 weeks for the meds to get working.

People with disabilities can still be gotten rid of, not as easily maybe but they aren't required to stay on the sick at a company for next 20 years.

 

[Newchodge]

Have you read my advice?

 

[theroo]

As someone who has suffered from mental illness before if this depression is legitimate then giving him an official warning is likely to make his depression worse.

Plus don't forget that one of the symptoms of depression is:

• having no motivation or interest in things

This might be why he isn't pulling his weight at work. He might also be finding it hard to concentrate or deal with people. If he has been signed off work by his doctor, then this is real, and you need to take that into account.

Yeah I don't know. I know that laziness is a symptom of depression. He was lazy for 7 months and one of the reasons he cited for his mental state was breaking up with his girlfriend. Now sure, I have sympathy, I've had plenty of broken relationships. But we all get on with it. Also, I probably should have mentioned he himself has told me that he knows he is lazy and he has told one his colleagues (my staff) that he has intentionally gotten fired from one of his previous jobs to get benefits. So all these things added in together makes it mighty hard for me to sympathise. He also has a mighty big interest in talking about his previous job and how much he and his colleagues used to waste time in those jobs. Woohoo.

Anyway, he's gone on two weeks holiday now (after taking his two days off for depression) so we'll see what happens when he gets back...

 

[kulture]

There is clearly a lack of trust with this employee. If you cannot trust an employee then it is better to terminate the job. There is no point making do, it is a business. It is one thing to make allowances for a disability if the employee is worth it and has a valuable contribution, it is another thing altogether if making allowances means letting them get away with not working. It will only damage the business.

 

[lesliedocherty]

Get rid of him and find someone that makes the workplace a more pleasant place, you'll look back and wonderwhy you never done it sooner (following the correct way to do it of course).

 

[George Owen]

Mental illness can have a massive effect on productivity in the workplace. Naturally, his/her mind is going to be on other things which will conflict with work. Being on your phone with depression is often used as an escape mechanism.

However, everyone has to take responsibility to a certain extent and you're not a charity. If he/she is working hard to cope and adapt with the illness to accommodate a healthy work/life balance, then good on them and they deserve the benefit of the doubt.

If they're unwilling to seek a solution then it might be worth letting them go. Everyone has issues that COULD affect their work, but you have to find ways of separating the two worlds to benefit all parties.

 

[simon field]

Believe me, you'll be better off letting them go.

 

[Jay Shields]

I may seem rough, but don’t motivate your employees. If you have to motivate them, you may not have the right people. Most likely the guy doesn't like what he does. I really appreciate the employer who fired me once (I was 21). It helped me to change the field of work and finally realise what type of work is I was born for..

 

[Mr D]

I may seem rough, but don’t motivate your employees. If you have to motivate them, you may not have the right people. Most likely the guy doesn't like what he does. I really appreciate the employer who fired me once (I was 21). It helped me to change the field of work and finally realise what type of work is I was born for..

As an ex employee I always found the wages to be motivating.

 

[Julia Sta Romana]

My friend had a similar problem and asked for my advice. Her employee was diagnosed with anxiety and often wouldn't show up for work. He's on therapy and medication but doesn't take them regularly. It has reached the point that it has affected the team's productivity.

She asked me what more she could to to make the office a better place for him. I know she has done a lot (gave him more sick leaves, allowed him to work from home, coordinated with other employees to help with his work). In this case, I had to be cruel to be kind. I told her that I can see she has already everything possible to help this employee, but he's not the ONLY employee in that team. The fact that his co-workers are being burdened by his repeated absences was starting to affect morale. I told her she may have to consider letting him go. It's not just about him anymore. The fact that he doesn't take medication regularly because he knows his team is there to cover for him has made him complacent. The possibility of him losing his job might be the kick in the butt he needs to take his illness and his job seriously.

 

[theroo]

As an ex employee I always found the wages to be motivating.

I actually increased his wages hoping he'd be motivated because i see his potential, but it didn't do jack.

 

[jameZee]

Hi theroo,

How are you getting on with this issue?

I have found myself in similar circumstances and would like to offer some scenarios that might help you make progress.

Just want to make sure first before posting any more info... in case they may have already left!