Knowing the mind of God

[stugster]

More importantly, are we all looking forward to 21st May 2011?

 

[stugster]

http://www.upi.com/Science_News/2011/05/04/Insect-with-extra-set-of-wings-found/UPI-66341304549762/

MARSEILLE, France, May 4 (UPI) -- A cicada-like creature called the treehopper has a third pair of wings in a reversal of usual insect evolution, French scientists say.

 

[cjd]

hmm - that's QI, but I'd need some convincing that it's not some weird adaptation from it's exoskeleton.

 

[hmmm]

What created the creator though....

.

did we?

maybe we are the creator of us...maybe we have done all this before and when cycles come around and cull the humans ,the humans before us have a little jaunt into space before coming back when all the drama has finished with a new improved GM human to start it all again..

lets face it we can clone animals and planets almost anything now..

 

[cjd]

This is a wonderful and very short video of the development of the human face from embryo. All animals evolved from fish and embryology gives the some of the evidence.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-13278255

This unique time-lapse video shows the face developing from a one-month-old embryo to an age of 10 weeks.

If you watch it closely, you will see that the human face is actually formed of three main sections which rotate and come together in an unborn foetus.

The way this happens only really makes sense when you realise that, strange though it may sound, we are actually descended from fish.

The early human embryo looks very similar to the embryo of any other mammal, bird or amphibian - all of which have evolved from fish.

Your eyes start out on the sides of your head, but then move to the middle.

The top lip along with the jaw and palate started life as gill-like structures on your neck. Your nostrils and the middle part of your lip come down from the top of your head.

There is no trace of a scar; the plates of tissue and muscle fuse seamlessly. But there is, however, a little remnant of all this activity in the middle of your top lip - your philtrum.

 

[Subbynet]

You guys might be interested in the debate on The Big Question (BBC 1 - on now!)... "Is the Bible still relevant today?" Dawkins himself is speaking.

 

[stugster]

Waa! http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-05-species-lizard-lab-cloning.html

 

[hmmm]

This is a wonderful and very short video of the development of the human face from embryo. All animals evolved from fish and embryology gives the some of the evidence.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-13278255

no they dont

 

[cjd]

no they dont

Would you like to expand on that?

 

[hmmm]

Would you like to expand on that?

i dont believe the fish thing........

do you?

 

[cjd]

i dont believe the fish thing........

do you?

It's not a matter of belief, it's just fact. What's your problem with it?

 

[hmmm]

It's not a matter of belief, it's just fact. What's your problem with it?

fact?

who says so?

it sounds more like belief to me

its on the same lines of religion

 

[cjd]

I guess you know nothing at all about evolution? Didn't you study it at school?

 

[hmmm]

I guess you know nothing at all about evolution? Didn't you study it at school?

of course i do, just as i did RE at school also . a catholic school.........

im unsure i believe either....

there seems to be to many anomalies ...

it really wouldnt surprise me at all if we came from/made by other human like entities..

aliens (maybe)

the past has so many unanswered questions...

as i said earlier we have the ability to clone to create animals and plants many things as of now....
is it possible we could do this many years ago?
is it possible where there is sea was once land vice verse?
did we live on the antarctic and the north pole before it moved there?
i believe its possible and during major change the rise of mountains the moving of land and sea we move around or are recreated by the greater being to a new improved state

 

[Parthelan]

are recreated by the greater being to a new improved state

My Gawd - if the state of me now is a new improved state, I'd hate to think what my previous incarnation looked like

 

[cjd]

i believe its possible and during major change the rise of mountains the moving of land and sea we move around or are recreated by the greater being to a new improved state

You can, of course, believe anything you like.

But evolution is simply a proven fact that has mountains of evidence to support it - you don't need to believe it, you can prove it.

 

[hmmm]

You can, of course, believe anything you like.

But evolution is simply a proven fact that has mountains of evidence to support it - you don't need to believe it, you can prove it.

its not proven at all .............
there is plenty to say different...........
there is evidence that evolution is there but its far from fact..
there is evidence of other things but thats not fact either...
its all a belief system.....

 

[hmmm]

My Gawd - if the state of me now is a new improved state, I'd hate to think what my previous incarnation looked like

perfection is far from here in any of us........

 

[cjd]

its not proven at all .............
there is plenty to say different...........
there is evidence that evolution is there but its far from fact..
there is evidence of other things but thats not fact either...
its all a belief system.....

There is NO evidence that says anything different. Evolutionary theory is no more a belief system that grvitational theory, germ theory or thermodynamics. Do some reading and get back to us.

 

[hmmm]

There is NO evidence that says anything different. Evolutionary theory is no more a belief system that grvitational theory, germ theory or thermodynamics. Do some reading and get back to us.

so now its a theory?

which is it?

just because there is no evidence in your opinion doesnt mean there isnt...

im sorry but i just cant have the fish theory i do respect that if thats your belief then thats cool

i take it as this a thread about god you dont believe the god way either?

 

[DCE]

There is NO evidence that says anything different. Evolutionary theory is no more a belief system that grvitational theory, germ theory or thermodynamics. Do some reading and get back to us.

Plenty of evidence that disputes your theories Colin.

The geneticist Stebbins writes: “No transitional forms are known between any of the major phyla of animals or plants.”

He speaks of “the large gaps which exist between many major categories of organisms.

In fact The New Evolutionary Timetable acknowledges, “the fossil record does not convincingly document a single transition from one species to another".

 

[hmmm]

and the reason for those gaps is imo because of earth changes...........

 

[cjd]

so now its a theory?

which is it?

In science, a theory is the same as a fact (actually, it explains a bunch of facts). It doesn't mean 'idea' or 'belief' or 'feeling' or any of those general use words - it has a specific meaning.

im sorry but i just cant have the fish theory i do respect that if thats your belief then thats cool

it's not MY belief; it's got nothing to do with me or anything I may or may not belief - it's simply a fact. It's not something you can believe or not believe either - it stays a fact whether you choose to ignore it or think differently about it.

 

[hmmm]

its not a fact to those that believe different...........
the earth goes through to many changes for there to be the fish thing imo....

your taking your fact for a group of historians and scientists from one particular area.......this does not make it fact today.
it may well have been taken as fact back in the day but today things are being discovered which seriously question this "fact"
just as the world is not flat anymore........

 

[cjd]

Facts rely on evidence. There is a mountain of evidence across many branches of science from biology, genetics, geology, cytology, embryology and a bunch of others. There is absolutely no doubt that evolution happened - none. It's utterly irrelevant that you, me or anyone else might have an ill founded belief that something different might be true.

You have no basis for your disbelief of the facts, only your preference to believe something else. Sorry, your opinion Is worthless without the backing of some evidence.

 

[hmmm]

Facts rely on evidence. There is a mountain of evidence across many branches of science from biology, genetics, geology, cytology, embryology and a bunch of others. There is absolutely no doubt that evolution happened - none. It's utterly irrelevant that you, me or anyone else might have an ill founded belief that something different might be true.

You have no basis for your disbelief of the facts, only your preference to believe something else. Sorry, your opinion Is worthless without the backing of some evidence.

but your evidence are only from certain branches of science and biology genetics and so on.there are just as many of those with a different point of view/theory.

there nothing wrong with one way or the other .i think its healthy to have difference as together things become clearer.

if anything a mutation imo is more probable

not forgetting the big fella creation and the rib thing...
that also maybe possible and for the very fact it is possible creates doubt of so called fact......


i was reading an article of some geologist where a cave had a picture of a stick man.this guy came up with the theory its was resembling a naked woman......????????????????? really

 

[cjd]

there nothing wrong with one way or the other .i think its healthy to have difference as together things become clearer.

if anything a mutation imo is more probable

Please try to understand that you don't have an opinion that matters. The entire global scientific view is that evolution is a fact. There are no other scientific opinions.

I'm going to say that again.

There are no alternative scientific models to evolutionary theory. None. Not one.

It's not healthy to have a diffence of opinion from a point of ignorance. What you have is an uneducated notion that flies in the face of all known scientific fact - that's not a balanced argument or a position that is reasonable to hold.

 

[hmmm]

Please try to understand that you don't have an opinion that matters. The entire global scientific view is that evolution is a fact. There are no other scientific opinions.

I'm going to say that again.

There are no alternative scientific models to evolutionary theory. None. Not one.

It's not healthy to have a diffence of opinion from a point of ignorance. What you have is an uneducated notion that flies in the face of all known scientific fact - that's not a balanced argument or a position that is reasonable to hold.

of course i dont have an opinion that will matter to anyone other than those willing to explore something other than evolution..it doesnt bother me if we came from fish apes god aliens or even another type of human or even if we are some sort of food.what/where ever we came from is STILL a mystery even to those whom think or believe or have self proclaimed facts of evolution are still looking over there shoulders...
we are still primitive in our knowledge and whilst i agree there is a big ecceptance of evolution, for it not to be the case is no big issue nor does it need to be.we learn every day

 

[jonmcculloch]

but your evidence are only from certain branches of science and biology genetics and so on.there are just as many of those with a different point of view/theory.

No, there are no competing theories to evolution. You clearly don't understand what a "theory" is, in scientific terms.

What you are talking about are "hypotheses".

Let me explain how all this works, in a nutshell:

1. You observe facts.
2. You come up with an explanation to explain the facts. That's a hypothesis.
3. You think of as many ways as you can to DISPROVE your hypothesis.
4. Over time, one of two things happens: the hypothesis is disproved; or it's not.
5. After long enough (in the case of evolution, 150 years), there sometimes accumulates so much evidence and yet appears NO proof the hypothesis is FALSE, the hypothesis becomes accepted as a theory. In other words, it's accepted tentatively by scientists as being true -- but is ALWAYS open to being falsified.

Evolution is a FACT (supported by a vast number of supporting FACTS).

The theory of evolution is a hypothesis which has not been disproved for over 150 years, despite the best efforts of a sod of a lot of very clever people.

So it remains the BEST explanation for why life on Earth is like it is, and how it got to be this way, and what happens in the process. It's also been observed in the wild and in the lab.

It's a fact.

Denying it is like denying the fact of gravity.

Now, the theory of evolution could be disproved at any moment -- literally any second -- by just one, tiny fact. Any one fact among countless possibilities would do it. But we're just not finding it.

For example, one of the most poignant facts simply has to be the fused chromosome 2 on the human genome, something which has happened in the time since we and the chimps parted company. Moreover, the evidence that PROVES this happened -- telomeres in the middle of this fused chromosome, and two centre-markers instead of one -- was predicted LONG before we knew how to test it. And guess what? It was there. And if it hadn't have been, the theory of evolution would have been blasted out of the water in an instant.

If you expect any OTHER hypothesis to be considered as a reasonable contender for how things got like they are then

1. It has to explain the facts as well as or better than the theory of evolution does
2. It has to explain facts the theory of evolution does NOT explain
3. It has to be falsifiable

Anything less than this and it has no right to be taken even remotely seriously.

I am not being pedantic here -- this is how scientific research works. It seems you don't actually understand any of this.

Warmly,

Jon

 

[stugster]

Thanks Jon. That's a pretty succinct reply nice one.

 

[Top Hat]

hmmm I recomend you read Neil Shubin's Your Inner Fish.

 

[hmmm]

No, there are no competing theories to evolution. You clearly don't understand what a "theory" is, in scientific terms.

What you are talking about are "hypotheses".

Let me explain how all this works, in a nutshell:

1. You observe facts.
2. You come up with an explanation to explain the facts. That's a hypothesis.
3. You think of as many ways as you can to DISPROVE your hypothesis.
4. Over time, one of two things happens: the hypothesis is disproved; or it's not.
5. After long enough (in the case of evolution, 150 years), there sometimes accumulates so much evidence and yet appears NO proof the hypothesis is FALSE, the hypothesis becomes accepted as a theory. In other words, it's accepted tentatively by scientists as being true -- but is ALWAYS open to being falsified.

Evolution is a FACT (supported by a vast number of supporting FACTS).

The theory of evolution is a hypothesis which has not been disproved for over 150 years, despite the best efforts of a sod of a lot of very clever people.

So it remains the BEST explanation for why life on Earth is like it is, and how it got to be this way, and what happens in the process. It's also been observed in the wild and in the lab.

It's a fact.

Denying it is like denying the fact of gravity.

Now, the theory of evolution could be disproved at any moment -- literally any second -- by just one, tiny fact. Any one fact among countless possibilities would do it. But we're just not finding it.

For example, one of the most poignant facts simply has to be the fused chromosome 2 on the human genome, something which has happened in the time since we and the chimps parted company. Moreover, the evidence that PROVES this happened -- telomeres in the middle of this fused chromosome, and two centre-markers instead of one -- was predicted LONG before we knew how to test it. And guess what? It was there. And if it hadn't have been, the theory of evolution would have been blasted out of the water in an instant.

If you expect any OTHER hypothesis to be considered as a reasonable contender for how things got like they are then

1. It has to explain the facts as well as or better than the theory of evolution does
2. It has to explain facts the theory of evolution does NOT explain
3. It has to be falsifiable

Anything less than this and it has no right to be taken even remotely seriously.

I am not being pedantic here -- this is how scientific research works. It seems you don't actually understand any of this.

Warmly,

Jon

hi all
hi jon thanks for your post,i liked it, very informative .
i dont feel you have been pedantic or anything else as i enjoy convo and debate.although saying that depending on your persona your replies may evolve into those things by the time we,ve finished here
the fact you speak of is human fact for that reason alone shows uncertainty.
in these times of fact /certainty, just as those of past theres a little thing called uncertainty that pops up every now and again which then bombs away at certainty .its always a mighty struggle to which sometime its wins and sometimes it doesnt.
the credit certainty gets is so much so we tend to disregard uncertainty because of the power of certainty...its a move when involved with somethings is not good.
you cant have one without the other

 

[bdw]

Whaaaat??? :|

 

[cjd]

^^^ it's just the usual

'we don't know everything, therefore it's valid to belief anything I like' statement

The corollary is, 'my 'beliefs' are as valid as yours.'

The argument gets shape shifted into 'teach the controversy' in the States. Pointing out that there is no controversy doesn't help with these people.

 

[jonmcculloch]

The argument gets shape shifted into 'teach the controversy' in the States. Pointing out that there is no controversy doesn't help with these people.

Damn right. I DEMAND they teach the Norse theory of creation in schools, in the name of "balance".

Warmly,

Jon

 

[hmmm]

^^^ it's just the usual

'we don't know everything, therefore it's valid to belief anything I like' statement

The corollary is, 'my 'beliefs' are as valid as yours.'

The argument gets shape shifted into 'teach the controversy' in the States. Pointing out that there is no controversy doesn't help with these people.

that to me is not true...
a tree is a tree there is no controversy,but even that can have its hair splitters
i dont disbelieve one way or the other which im guessing makes me some sort of fence sitter.
there is always controversy whilst things are based on probability rather than complete fact.......
the swing of balance
having the swing of balance makes one thing more probable than the other but at the same time does not take away the fact it can go the other way no matter how small that probability is.so to just disregard it is not wise...
there is always a 1 ,2 ,3 with 3 being the magic number and you cant have 3 without 1 and 2

 

[hmmm]

Damn right. I DEMAND they teach the Norse theory of creation in schools, in the name of "balance".

Warmly,

Jon

i also DEMAND they teach the real history of the world and why things evolve/mutate

how we go from one to the other and why ?
lets teach them the major reason .catastrophe!

why hide it?

truth can be offensive but not a sin.....

 

[cjd]

We should keep a countdown - the world as we know it ends on May 21st; less than 2 weeks.

This site reveals the most complete written, audio, and video Bible teachings which conclusively prove May 21, 2011 to be Judgment Day and The Rapture, and October 21, 2011 to be the end of the world. It is most urgent to examine yourself, whether you are saved.

153 days after - October 21st - the entire cosmos will be destroyed. It must be true, it says so in the bible apparently, how worried are you?

http://www.may-212011.com/


Judgment Day!
May 21, 2011


And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man. Revelation 9:5

The End of the World
October 21, 2011

 

[jonmcculloch]

how worried are you?

Spontaneous defecation.

Warmly,

Jon

 

[stockdam]

how worried are you?

Worry is nothing more than a delusion that we invented........it's nothing to worry about.