Knowing the mind of God

[cjd]

...he put forth a pretty good case for the fact if we could rewind the tape of life, there is all but zero chance it would turn out as it did the second time of asking, implying man might never have made it to centre stage.

I do find that a little troubling I have to say.

Well of course it wouldn't! -or at least the chances of it are remote.

Our problem is that we think that we're special but we're not, we're just a random product of evolution just like a tree frog or a parrot. I'm afraid god does play dice - it's in the genome. (The chances of rolling a dice the same way half a dozen times are small).

And no, DCE, that doesn't mean that evolution is purely random - it isn't, but the distinction is lost on you.

 

[Parthelan]

It's not about what he wrote, but what he was implying,

So when the Bible says God made the world in 6 days, or God flooded the world, or God made Adam and Eve - that's literally true - theres no reading between the lines there, it is what it is - the Bible says so.

But when Hmmm says God evolved, a monumental error of Biblical proportions, you say, and I quote: ''He recognized that God's intervention is needed for mankind to progress, and return back to their original state of perfection''



Lol - this is the best laugh Ive had all day

 

[DCE]

So when the Bible says God made the world in 6 days

We can see you are actually the ''literalist' you do not have a clue, what you are talking about, because you think the creative day, is 24hrs, my goodness Parth.

If you would study the bible, you may find out the truth.

 

[hmmm]

God is perfect. Perfection can't change. The reason it can't change is because perfection, by definition, can't be improved on.

but why?
from one second to the next things change.
perfection changes from one second to the next.
each second it changes it is still perfection
why can this not be.
yet again im not saying this is how it is, but only a why cant this be?
does perfection mean only "cant be improved"
perfection is what it is,perfection at that second and every other.just because the second is different and perfection has changed does not mean it has improved as it cant do as it is already perfection,
who is to say that perfection at the 2nd second has improved?
perfection may have changed but that doesnt have to mean its improved.perfection cannot be measured when perfection is always perfection

 

[Parthelan]

If you would study the bible, you may find out the truth.

Did God make Adam and Eve, or did human beings evolve?

You believe God made Adam and Eve, literally, and from these original two people all humans followed - yes??

Well, of course yes becuase here's you own Witchtower Website:

Jesus was here quoting from the creation account recorded in Genesis chapter 2. If Jesus believed the first marriage to be a fictional story, would he have made reference to it to support his teaching on the sanctity of marriage? No. Jesus pointed to the Genesis account because he knew it to be true history.-John 17:17.

But this bit was very telling:

We invite you to examine this topic further. You can do so by reviewing the other articles in this issue. In addition, you may also want to read the publications shown on this page.

If you genuinely wanted readers to explore the issue in an unbiased and independent manner, why not link to peer reviewed scientific papers

Oh, and those ''publications'' what were they????

FURTHER READING

Specific examples of the Bible's authenticity are discussed in this brochure

Examine more scientific evidence and learn why a caring God would permit so much suffering

The question What is God's purpose for the earth? is answered in chapter 3 of this book


Lol Lol Lol Lol Lol

 

[DCE]

Just for Parths benefit

“For at least 2000 years, doctors have puzzled over the function of a pinkish-grey bit of tissue lying just below the neck and behind the breastbone—the thymus gland.

Modern physicians came to regard it, like the appendix, as a useless, vestigial organ which had lost its original purpose, if indeed it ever had one.

In the last few years, however, the dogged detective work of a small band of Americans, Britons, Australians and Swedes have cracked the thymus enigma.

These men have proved that, far from being useless, the thymus is really the master gland that regulates the intricate immunity system which protects us against infectious diseases.

But is the thymus the only organ regulating our immunity system?

Recent experiments have led researchers to believe that the appendix, tonsils and adenoids [once these too were tagged as vestigial] may also figure in the antibody responses.”

Parth instead of having a swipe at God, think first.

 

[Parthelan]

Just for Parths benefit

“For at least 2000 years, doctors have puzzled over the function of a pinkish-grey bit of tissue lying just below the neck and behind the breastbone—the thymus gland.

Modern physicians came to regard it, like the appendix, as a useless, vestigial organ which had lost its original purpose, if indeed it ever had one.

In the last few years, however, the dogged detective work of a small band of Americans, Britons, Australians and Swedes have cracked the thymus enigma.

These men have proved that, far from being useless, the thymus is really the master gland that regulates the intricate immunity system which protects us against infectious diseases.

But is the thymus the only organ regulating our immunity system?

Recent experiments have led researchers to believe that the appendix, tonsils and adenoids [once these too were tagged as vestigial] may also figure in the antibody responses.”

Parth instead of having a swipe at God, think first.

Quote your sources!!!!!!!!!!! Provide the link so I can read it for myself!!!!!!

 

[DCE]

Did God make Adam and Eve, or did human beings evolve?

What's your Bible say?

What's the Orthodox Church say?

 

[Parthelan]

Just for Parths benefit

"For at least 2000 years, doctors have puzzled over the function of a pinkish-grey bit of tissue lying just below the neck and behind the breastbone-the thymus gland.

Modern physicians came to regard it, like the appendix, as a useless, vestigial organ which had lost its original purpose, if indeed it ever had one.

In the last few years, however, the dogged detective work of a small band of Americans, Britons, Australians and Swedes have cracked the thymus enigma.

These men have proved that, far from being useless, the thymus is really the master gland that regulates the intricate immunity system which protects us against infectious diseases.

But is the thymus the only organ regulating our immunity system?

Recent experiments have led researchers to believe that the appendix, tonsils and adenoids [once these too were tagged as vestigial] may also figure in the antibody responses."

Parth instead of having a swipe at God, think first.

Copied and pasted from ''gospelhour dot net

Oh, and organs can develop secondary incidental functions to their original function (evolution see).... look at the coccyx and the role it now plays compared to in its original form

Dce - youve been told this before, you just make an idiot of yourself when you google words like vestigial organs and then cut and paste the first religious, creationist article you can find, when you dont understand a word of it, nor do you even read what you cut and paste.

Remember the ''Scientists discover the God Particle'' incident

And finally, just because we dont yet know the function of something, and some doctor thinks it a useless piece of meat, all it proves when we do discover its function, is that that doctor was wrong. It says nothing about God

 

[DCE]

Copied and pasted from ''gospelhour dot net

Oh, and organs can develop secondary incidental functions to their original function .... look at the coccyx and the role it now plays compared to in its original form

Dce - youve been told this before, you just make an idiot of yourself when you google words like vestigial organs and then cut and paste the first religious, creationist article you can find, when you dont understand a word of it, nor do you even read what you cut and paste.

Remember the ''Scientists discover the God Particle'' incident

Playing with words again, you really are coming across as a professional apostate, dangerous, Parth, you seem to have lost your faith and love for God, you seem to want to discredit the Bible, in everything you say, and that's your own Bible by the way.

 

[hmmm]

just because perfection changes why does it mean improved if it changes?

 

[Parthelan]

Playing with words again, you really are coming across as a professional apostate, dangerous, Parth, you seem to have lost your faith and love for God, you seem to want to discredit the Bible, in everything you say, and that's your own Bible by the way.

Quote your souces for articles so people can go to the source and read them in full - you have been PROVEN to quote mine time and time again and it just discredits you.

But, you dont quote your sources because all can see they come from eithe the Witchtower, or Awake or a Jehovah Witless site or book, or some creatards homepage.

And that would discredit you too.

So I guess youre in a lose lose situation here

Much like your cult - 7 millions members, in 150 years, world wide and falling

Clearly the Lord is not blessing your labours

There's a message there DCE, but there's none so blind as those that will not see eh???

 

[cjd]

just because perfection changes why does it mean improved if it changes?

A change can only be an improvement or deterioration. Either way you lose.

 

[DCE]

Quote your souces for articles so people can go to the source and read them in full - you have been PROVEN to quote mine time and time again and it just discredits you.

But, you dont quote your sources because all can see they come from eithe the Witchtower, or Awake or a Jehovah Witless site or book, or some creatards homepage.

And that would discredit you too.

So I guess youre in a lose lose situation here

Much like your cult - 7 millions members, in 150 years, world wide and falling

Clearly the Lord is not blessing your labours

There's a message there DCE, but there's none so blind as those that will not see eh???

You would be really surprised, if you would only, learn the truth Parth.

What do you think God's purpose is for the future?

Or does he not have one?

 

[hmmm]

A change can only be an improvement or deterioration. Either way you lose.

why ?
since when did change mean improve or deteriorate?

 

[cjd]

why ?
since when did change mean improve or deteriorate?

Well I admit that I did leave out 'stay the same' option, but I mistakenly thought it would be obvious why.

Oh well here goes. If something changes, it either improves, gets worse or stays the same (at some defined function)

Pick any option, it means that the original could not have been perfect or could not have changed (at that defined function)

 

[DCE]

why ?
since when did change mean improve or deteriorate?

CJD is now admitting that change in perfection can cause deterioration, which is what Adam & Eve did by missing the mark of perfect obedience.

Man has now deteriorated to a level which needs the Creator to intervene, which he is going too.

That was why we needed the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ, which God provided, so we could return back to perfection, which was God's original purpose.

For us all to be perfect, have a perfect immune system etc.

Why do most people hate the idea of that, it is beyoud me.

 

[Parthelan]

Man has now deteriorated to a level which needs the Creator to intervene, which he is going too....so we could return back to perfection, which was his original purpose.

Funny that.

We're living longer, not shorter.

We're getting healthier, not more ill.

We're eating better food, not scavaging with wild animals.

We've got better housing, not living in caves.

We can drive and fly everywhere, not walk like the Apostles and Jesus had to.

We can fly to other planets and come back, and no longer think the stars are little rips in the fermament.

We can enable premature babys to live that would have died, and we no longer have to die from toothache or appendicitus, or the lack of a blood transfusion.

We have harnessed science to produce crops to feed millions that the earth itself couldnt have coped with.

Democracy and law and order, world wide, is on the rise.

Yeah, we're in a dreadful state compared to Adam and Eve

 

[Podge]

Funny that.

We're living longer, not shorter.

We're getting healthier, not more ill.

We're eating better food, not scavaging with wild animals.

We've got better housing, not living in caves.

We can drive and fly everywhere, not walk like the Apostles and Jesus had to.

We can fly to other planets and come back, and no longer think the stars are little rips in the fermament.

We can enable premature babys to live that would have died, and we no longer have to die from toothache or appendicitus, or the lack of a blood transfusion.

We have harnessed science to produce crops to feed millions that the earth itself couldnt have coped with.

Democracy and law and order, world wide, is on the rise.

Yeah, we're in a dreadful state compared to Adam and Eve

I tend to think that the millions that are starving to death may not agree with you.

 

[DCE]

Funny that.

We're living longer, not shorter.

We're getting healthier, not more ill.

We're eating better food, not scavaging with wild animals.

We've got better housing, not living in caves.

We can drive and fly everywhere, not walk like the Apostles and Jesus had to.

We can fly to other planets and come back, and no longer think the stars are little rips in the fermament.

We can enable premature babys to live that would have died, and we no longer have to die from toothache or appendicitus, or the lack of a blood transfusion.

We have harnessed science to produce crops to feed millions that the earth itself couldnt have coped with.

Democracy and law and order, world wide, is on the rise.

Yeah, we're in a dreadful state compared to Adam and Eve

If you had you had a perfect immune system would you become ill? No

If there was no wars would people die because of conflict? No?

If there was plenty of food, would there be food shortages ? No

You just cannot see, what your God Jesus was on about, can you?

What is God's Kingdom going to bring to the earth?

Read your Bible for goodness sake, instead of giving out rubbish all the time, what did Jesus fore-gleam when he was on the earth?

 

[Parthelan]

I tend to think that the millions that are starving to death may not agree with you.

They wouldnt.

But the good news is that global poverty rates are falling

http://www.guardian.co.uk/global-development/2011/jul/07/millennium-development-goals-2011-report

East Asia continues to record the sharpest reduction in poverty, particularly in China and India, where the number of people living in extreme poverty in both countries fell by about 455 million between 1990 and 2005, and where 320 million more people are expected to join their ranks by 2015. The UN MDG report said projections for sub-Saharan Africa are slightly more upbeat than previously estimated, and the extreme poverty rate in the region is expected to fall below 36%.

Now, hunger worldwide has plateaued:

Despite significant reductions in extreme poverty, the world will find it difficult to eradicate hunger, however, which is another target of MDG 1. The persistence of hunger is forcing policymakers to address problems such as access to food and high food prices. The Food and Agriculture Organisation has been asked to undertake a comprehensive review to see what policies could lead to a reduction in the proportion of people going hungry, which has plateaued at 16%.

But mankind is working on this. Thank God those who have full bellies are not telling those starving to death that it's mans sinfullness causing it and God will be along soon to sort it out

Rather, the best brains in the world in agriculture are constantly looking for solutions to world hunger.

Theyre not passing out free Bibles and copies of Awake to the starving.

People living in high crime areas might also be wondering where the social improvements are - and thats a perfectly valid observation of their particular set of circumstances .... but when you look at the global picture, its one of improvement and hope.

 

[DCE]

They wouldnt.

But the good news is that global poverty rates are falling

http://www.guardian.co.uk/global-development/2011/jul/07/millennium-development-goals-2011-report



Now, hunger worldwide has plateaued:



But mankind is working on this. Thank God those who have full bellies are not telling those starving to death that it's mans sinfullness causing it and God will be along soon to sort it out

Rather, the best brains in the world in agriculture are constantly looking for solutions to world hunger.

Theyre not passing out free Bibles and copies of Awake to the starving.

People living in high crime areas might also be wondering where the social improvements are - and thats a perfectly valid observation of their particular set of circumstances .... but when you look at the global picture, its one of improvement and hope.

You definitely have a problem Parth! or no T.V.

 

[hmmm]

Pick any option, it means that the original could not have been perfect or could not have changed (at that defined function)

i still fail to see why the original could not have been perfect if it changes or that it gets any better or worse if it does change.
cant the fact that being perfect enables you to change is what makes you perfect?

 

[Parthelan]

i still fail to see why the original could not have been perfect if it changes or that it gets any better or worse if it does change.
cant the fact that being perfect enables you to change is what makes you perfect?

There's a touch of Vanini about that - the only perfection is imperfection.

How are you defining the term - perfection?

 

[hmmm]

There's a touch of Vanini about that - the only perfection is imperfection.

How are you defining the term - perfection?

there is no imperfection when there is perfection.
perfection is what it is and just that.the fact it can change to its needs is perfection in its self

 

[Parthelan]

perfection is what it is and just that

Is that the definition of perfection that youre using?

 

[hmmm]

Is that the definition of perfection that youre using?

if there is a different definition to it then the only definition to use is gods version.do you know what that version is?

its perfection

 

[Parthelan]

if there is a different definition to it then the only definition to use is gods version.do you know what that version is?

its perfection

Lol ... thanks for bringing that round full circle, and ending the circular reasoning off nicely

Goodnight

 

[hmmm]

Lol ... thanks for bringing that round full circle, and ending the circular reasoning off nicely

Goodnight

nite ......

 

[MASSEY]

If i was a mod here i would look to source DCE's ip and hand it over to the police... I am stunned at what garbage comes out his mouth.

 

[cjd]

if there is a different definition to it then the only definition to use is gods version.do you know what that version is?

its perfection

I don't have a problem with people giving up rational, logical argument and just saying instead 'he's god, he can do anything'; I just wish they'd do it at the beginning of the discussion instead of the end.

 

[Parthelan]

I'm afraid god does play dice - it's in the genome. (The chances of rolling a dice the same way half a dozen times are small).

A particular path of enquiry has now presented itself to me

Is there a particular event, or development, or stage that appeared/evolved/kicked-in, perhaps inexplicably, that would mean man HAD to develop, or was it truely an entirely random process.

Not sure I worded that very well, in fact I know I didnt, but Im about to rush out the door to Divine Liturgy .... I'll think about a better way to express it at church

 

[hmmm]

I don't have a problem with people giving up rational, logical argument and just saying instead 'he's god, he can do anything'; I just wish they'd do it at the beginning of the discussion instead of the end.

this perfect discussion is not about god being able to do anything.it was about perfection and what it means. when some one uses the word perfect in there discussion as a negative to claim that perfection really isnt perfection at all, then we look at the meaning of perfection and why it was claimed not to be perfect ...

 

[cjd]

Is there a particular event, or development, or stage that appeared/evolved/kicked-in, perhaps inexplicably, that would mean man HAD to develop, or was it truely an entirely random process.

As far as I'm aware, there's nothing in biology that makes the evolution to H. sapiens a certainty but there's an awful lot to say it's a complete fluke.

The fact that consciousness has only evolved once out of billions of attempts is a bit of a give away. (of course some say that dolphins and chimps also have a degree of consciousness so maybe we're just the most developed so far - in another million years others will have it too.)

It's always fun to speculate of course - if the dinosaur extinctions hadn't occurred, mammals as a group wouldn't have evolved, so did god send that meteorite?

If another branch of ape had out competed our Homo ancestors, we'd all be Neanderthal's now, so did the Holy Ghost touch a proto-human and get him to speak?

Perhaps not.

 

[hmmm]

quiet in here......
something is said ?

 

[Beachcomber]

Internsting debate i heard today on a podcast.

The following scenario was put forward:

If Jesus, during his time on earth, found himself in a room where he saw a woman was about to be raped, would he directly intervene?

Would he take any action at all?

I would suppose most people would say 'of course he would'

Now bring that scenario to the present day where there is a woman in a room about to be raped - as god is omnipotent, he is in the room - but he does not directly intervene.

Is this not a paradox?

Of course, it was put forward the issue of free will etc. but if this were valid then jesus would not intervene in the first scenario.


Any thoughts?

 

[cjd]

Well first you have to believe in two imaginary people, Jesus as both man and God, and God as both Jesus and, well, God.

Once you've swallowed that load of codswallop, you just have to say that whatever Jesus does as man is explicable as human and what God does as God, is a mystery - and there's no more problem.

 

[hmmm]

or we could answer the question hypothetically on the basis of what the bible tells us about jesus as a person/god.
i say he would possibly intervene with the power of word and presence

 

[cjd]

You've missed the point of the question, you need to answer why Jesus would intervene but God would not.

 

[hmmm]

Internsting debate i heard today on a podcast.

The following scenario was put forward:

If Jesus, during his time on earth, found himself in a room where he saw a woman was about to be raped, would he directly intervene?

Would he take any action at all?




Any thoughts?

theres a question mark .its a 2 parrt question.the above is the 1st part to which i answered